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tennisaddict
10-26-2012, 09:20 AM
Who are the biggest spoilers in tennis history in Open Era ?

Who else came very close to being a spoiler and could have changed the landscape ?

If Nadal is not able to come back or if Nadal is not the same player he was till recently, Rosol would rank as the biggest spoiler in tennis history in the recent past.

Basically someone who ended the career or changed the "tennis scene" in a huge way.

Tsonga comes to my mind as a person who missed out on being a "huge spoiler". Tsonga beat Nadal at AO 2008 Semis, won the first set in the finals against Nole and was close to making it 2 sets all in the finals. If he had won, probably Nole may never have won 5 slams or be the player he is now.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 09:22 AM
I would say FedEx as he prevented Roddick from winning 3 Wimbledon titles.

underground
10-26-2012, 09:24 AM
Who are the biggest spoilers in tennis history in Open Era ?

Who else came very close to being a spoiler and could have changed the landscape ?

If Nadal is not able to come back or if Nadal is not the same player he was till recently, Rosol would rank as the biggest spoiler in tennis history in the recent past.

Basically someone who ended the career or changed the "tennis scene" in a huge way.

Tsonga comes to my mind as a person who missed out on being a "huge spoiler". Tsonga beat Federer at AO 2008 Semis, won the first set in the finals against Nole and was close to making it 2 sets all in the finals. Tsonga had earlier beaten Hewitt, Ferrer on the way - no easy scalps. If he had won, probably Nole may never have won 5 slams or be the player he is now.

Tsonga beat Nadal. Djoker beat Federer.

tennisaddict
10-26-2012, 09:26 AM
Tsonga beat Nadal. Djoker beat Federer.

my bad. Nevertheless a huge win.

Steve0904
10-26-2012, 09:31 AM
Who are the biggest spoilers in tennis history in Open Era ?

Who else came very close to being a spoiler and could have changed the landscape ?

If Nadal is not able to come back or if Nadal is not the same player he was till recently, Rosol would rank as the biggest spoiler in tennis history in the recent past.

Basically someone who ended the career or changed the "tennis scene" in a huge way.

Tsonga comes to my mind as a person who missed out on being a "huge spoiler". Tsonga beat Federer at AO 2008 Semis, won the first set in the finals against Nole and was close to making it 2 sets all in the finals. If he had won, probably Nole may never have won 5 slams or be the player he is now.

I think you mean Tsonga beat Nadal.

Anyhow, I can think of a few that missed out off the top of my head. Haas and Delpo could've changed history if they had beaten Fed at RG 2009.

I'm also of the belief that had Murray lost the USO final to Djokovic this year, he would've never won a slam after that.

As to who was actually the biggest spoiler. Probably Nadal, and to a lesser extent Djokovic. Simply because Nadal changed history pertaining to Federer, and Djokovic changed it in regards to Nadal.

McEnroeisanartist
10-26-2012, 09:41 AM
Other than Federer against Roddick, I don't think one player has more negatively impacted another player's career quite like Becker against Lendl.

Lendl lost three grand slam finals to Becker. Lendl also lost three times to Becker at Wimbledon, which he never won. He lost in the 1986 final. The 1988 Wimbledon semifinal, would have played Edberg in the finals (who Lendl beat in the semifinals the year before) and in the 1989 Wimbledon semifinal, would have played Edberg in the finals.

tennisaddict
10-26-2012, 10:00 AM
[QUOTE=McEnroeisanartist;6976265]Other than Federer against Roddick, I don't think one player has more negatively impacted another player's career quite like Becker against Lendl.

QUOTE]

I am looking more at matches that changed tennis history - not just for the opponent.

Some players that are in that league

- Soderling at FO 2009 - Could have resulted in Rafa getting 8 consecutive FO , put a blemish on Federer's career not being complete.

- Rafa / Rain at FO 2012 - Nole was on a tear in the 3rd set and but for the rain may have got the FO 2012 and won a 'Nole' Slam / Completed career slam.

Cup8489
10-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Rain @ RG2012.

If they hadn't stopped that match.. Djokovic would have won. Not a doubt in my mind.

McEnroeisanartist
10-26-2012, 10:10 AM
2006 Rome Final - if Federer defeats Nadal with match points that he has, may completely change course of rivalry. Rather than being disputed GOAT, Federer is undisputed GOAT as no one can bring up his poor head to head with Nadal against him.

sbengte
10-26-2012, 10:11 AM
Federer for ruining Novak's almost certain CYGS at the 2011 RG :|

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Rain @ RG2012.

If they hadn't stopped that match.. Djokovic would have won. Not a doubt in my mind.

That didn't happen. Thank god. That 3rd ser was getting me worried :-|

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Rain @ RG2012.

If they hadn't stopped that match.. Djokovic would have won. Not a doubt in my mind.

That didn't happen. Thank god. That 3rd set was getting me worried :-|

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 11:19 AM
[QUOTE=McEnroeisanartist;6976265]Other than Federer against Roddick, I don't think one player has more negatively impacted another player's career quite like Becker against Lendl.

QUOTE]

I am looking more at matches that changed tennis history - not just for the opponent.

Some players that are in that league

- Soderling at FO 2009 - Could have resulted in Rafa getting 8 consecutive FO , put a blemish on Federer's career not being complete.

- Rafa / Rain at FO 2012 - Nole was on a tear in the 3rd set and but for the rain may have got the FO 2012 and won a 'Nole' Slam / Completed career slam.



No. If it had been sunny with no rain to make the court into a mudpit,******* never even takes a set. Hilarious that people can't seem to grasp that ******* went on his run of games won when the balls turned to heavy soaked sponges,and the court turned to sh*t.


And ******* didn't even deserve to win RG with the way he played all the way through. Nadal played better than he did as a whole and deserved to win.

The Bawss
10-26-2012, 11:26 AM
Nadal has kinda spoiled Fed's career (not too bad though). Soderling spoiled Fed's stupid 23 grandslam SF streak. Knees spoiled Nadal's career.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 11:28 AM
Nadal has kinda spoiled Fed's career (not too bad though). Soderling spoiled Fed's stupid 23 grandslam SF streak. Knees spoiled Nadal's career.

Don't you think that Rafa kinda helped Fed to keep motivated over the years and helped him raise the bar a touch? Everyone needs a rival to keep them on their toes and strive to do better.

Mustard
10-26-2012, 11:39 AM
Rain @ RG2012.

If they hadn't stopped that match.. Djokovic would have won. Not a doubt in my mind.

If they had continued playing in a mud bath, you mean? Using this logic, Nadal would have won in straight sets had it stayed dry throughout the match. That's all woulda shoulda coulda.

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 11:46 AM
If they had continued playing in a mud bath, you mean? Using this logic, Nadal would have won in straight sets had it stayed dry throughout the match. That's all woulda shoulda coulda.



Yep. If it hadn't rained Nadal would have won in straights and we wouldn't constantly have to hear about the near *******man comeback at RG this year,and how he should have won if only they had continued to play in a downpour in a mudpit,and with heavy water logged balls. People will never let the "streak" die,and will forever be talking about the woulda shoulda coulda's because they desperately wanted Nadal to lose.

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Nadal has kinda spoiled Fed's career (not too bad though). Soderling spoiled Fed's stupid 23 grandslam SF streak. Knees spoiled Nadal's career.



17 slams isn't good enough for you? :shock:

Mustard
10-26-2012, 11:49 AM
Michael Stich at 1991 Wimbledon has to be mentioned. After narrowly surviving a 5-set match against Alexander Volkov in the Round of 16 and then beating the French Open champion, Jim Courier, Stich decided to spoil the expectations.

People had been expecting a Becker vs. Edberg Wimbledon final for the fourth year in a row, and Becker himself seemed very pumped up for that final as he talked about the possibility during the tournament. Edberg was playing excellent tennis and didn't even drop a set on his way to the semi finals, where he met Stich. Despite not dropping his serve at all in the entire match, Edberg lost, as Stich won 4-6, 7-6, 7-6, 7-6.

This seemed to throw off Becker as well. Instead of facing Edberg in the final, a match that Becker had been pumped up for, he was suddenly faced with a fellow German as his opponent and someone he didn't particularly get on with. Stich started the match by breaking Becker straight away, and Becker just never got going and nearly lost his temper completely during the match. Stich beat Becker 6-4, 7-6, 6-4, and we had a surprise Wimbledon champion.

NadalAgassi
10-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Federer ruined Roddick's career.

Nadal ruined Federer's clay court career

Djokovic arguably ruined Nadal's non clay legacy and even his otherwise largely possible run at surpassing Federer as the Open Era GOAT by denying him 3 additional non clay slams, as nobody else was beating him at any of those events (Federer, Murray, etc...)

Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic all combined to ruin Murray's career repeatedly.

Sampras ruined Becker's Wimbledon GOAT potential as he could have 6 Wimbledons without Sampras

Sampras ruined Ivanisevic's career as he could have 4 Wimbledons and 1 U.S Open without Pete.

Gaudio ended Coria's career.

Mustard
10-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Gaudio ended Coria's career.

I disagree with this. Coria's service yips ended his career. Nadal's emergence as the king of clay in 2005 didn't help either. Coria would have won Monte Carlo and Rome in 2005 without Nadal in his way, even though Coria wasn't playing as consistently well as he had been in the 2004 clay-court season.

Steve0904
10-26-2012, 11:59 AM
Gaudio ended Coria's career.

Good one.

10 chars

jaggy
10-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Mac choking to Lendl at Roland garros changed everything

The Bawss
10-26-2012, 12:03 PM
17 slams isn't good enough for you? :shock:

17 is great for Roger, good for him. But you know what I mean, without Nadal we are looking at 20+ slams with a couple of CYGS thrown in. He would have made a mockery of tennis. In that sense, Nadal is a godsend for tennis, but not so much for Roger's career.

Mustard
10-26-2012, 12:07 PM
Mac choking to Lendl at Roland garros changed everything

Not actually true. It was their 1985 US Open final that changed everything. After Lendl's win from 2 sets down in their 1984 French Open final, McEnroe still continued to dominate tennis, including demolitions of Lendl at the 1984 US Open (6-3, 6-4, 6-1) and the January 1985 Masters (7-5, 6-0, 6-4). Even in the summer of 1985, McEnroe beat Lendl 7-6, 6-2 in the Stratton Mountain final and 7-5, 6-3 in the Montreal final. McEnroe also led 5-2 in the first set of the 1985 US Open final.

Mustard
10-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Other than Federer against Roddick, I don't think one player has more negatively impacted another player's career quite like Becker against Lendl.

Lendl lost three grand slam finals to Becker. Lendl also lost three times to Becker at Wimbledon, which he never won. He lost in the 1986 final. The 1988 Wimbledon semifinal, would have played Edberg in the finals (who Lendl beat in the semifinals the year before) and in the 1989 Wimbledon semifinal, would have played Edberg in the finals.

Becker also beat Lendl 5-7, 7-6, 3-6, 6-2, 7-6 in the 1988 Masters final, winning the final set tiebreak 7-5 after a 40+ stroke rally that ended on a netcord.

NadalAgassi
10-26-2012, 12:17 PM
17 is great for Roger, good for him. But you know what I mean, without Nadal we are looking at 20+ slams with a couple of CYGS thrown in. He would have made a mockery of tennis. In that sense, Nadal is a godsend for tennis, but not so much for Roger's career.

Without Federer, Roddick would be the 2nd best player of Federer's era (considering Djokovic is largely another era). That alone would be enough for people to roll their eyes and look at Federer's records as a bit of a joke. I would argue Nadal is a godsend for Federer. Outdoing an all time great like Nadal, despite Nadal getting the better of their head to head by a long way and beating him in all those slam finals, Federer got the better atleast so far in slam wins and achievements, legitimizes Federer's records and career.

Mustard
10-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Without Federer, Roddick would be the 2nd best player of Federer's era (considering Djokovic is largely another era).

Lleyton Hewitt.

ramosxp
10-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Fed nearly wrecked Roddicks career. Fortunately AROD got his slam before the Nadal/Fed dynasty transformed the game. Hewitt was also very fortunate he came around a little earlier, based on his Fed record. Credit though Hewie and AROD for having consistent careers. For both of them, I'd be counting my blessings they didn't come later and jeopardize getting into the Hall of Fame. BTW, I do believe tennis's hall of fame has the lowest standards in being inducted as compared to the other sports.

Going back a few years I think the other spoiler was Korda who took Rios' best chance of getting a major in the Aussie. I'm sure somewhere in Rios's mind he's wondering if juicing cost him a slam, nevertheless it may have cost him an induction, and we'll never know.

Ms Nadal
10-26-2012, 01:29 PM
In my eyes, FedEx did wrecked Roddick's career! Roddick could have won so much more if FedEx wasn't around! I used to be a huge fan of Roddick at the start of his career and FedEx took a lot of his confidence away!. All those finals they played! FedEx won them all! :twisted:. I still feel sad that Rod never got a Wimby title after 3 attempts! Losing to Roger every time! Too much! Fed even made Rod lose 2006 USO final! Every time Rod got to a slam final, Fed was in his way! I feel so sorry for Roddick!. Fed must really like Rod as he could beat him with ease, in his sleep! I watched how Fed chipped away at Roddick! It wasn't a nice sight. Roddick would have had 5 slams! If FedEx didn't spoil the party!

kiki
10-26-2012, 01:32 PM
Borg ruined Vitas Gerulaitis career...

Mainad
10-26-2012, 02:26 PM
I disagree with this. Coria's service yips ended his career.

Maybe it wasn't entirely a coincidence that his service yips began after the devastating FO final loss to Gaudio. A consequence of the steady decline in his confidence following that loss?

Mustard
10-26-2012, 02:33 PM
Maybe it wasn't entirely a coincidence that his service yips began after the devastating FO final loss to Gaudio. A consequence of the steady decline in his confidence following that loss?

Coria's service yips began in July 2005, over a year after the 2004 French Open final. That loss to Gaudio, and Nadal's arrival in 2005, did hurt Coria's confidence but it didn't end his career, the service yips did. How can you survive on the ATP Tour if you struggle to spin in second serves and hit an absurd number of double faults?

Mainad
10-26-2012, 03:04 PM
Coria's service yips began in July 2005, over a year after the 2004 French Open final. That loss to Gaudio, and Nadal's arrival in 2005, did hurt Coria's confidence but it didn't end his career, the service yips did. How can you survive on the ATP Tour if you struggle to spin in second serves and hit absurd number of double faults?

Maybe Nadal was the last straw for him then. I note that he lost 2 hard-fought finals to him at both MC and Rome that year. I recall Federer once saying that serving was something he could do in his sleep, that it was never a problem for him. But then he was always full of confidence and rarely if ever let a big loss get him down. Coria seems to have been made of less sterner stuff, unfortunately for him.

NadalAgassi
10-26-2012, 03:29 PM
Lleyton Hewitt.

I am not willing to get into a long drawn out debate all over again but Roddick had 8 majors he was taken out by Federer in a late round:

2003 Wimbledon
2004 Wimbledon
2005 Wimbledon
2006 U.S Open
2007 Australian Open
2007 U.S Open
2009 Australian Open
2009 Wimbledon


Hewitt had only 4 majors he was taken out by Federer in a late round:

2004 Wimbledon
2004 U.S Open
2005 Wimbledon
2005 U.S Open



So quite obvious the odds are much more of Roddick being hurt more than Hewitt. Hewitt was hurt for a couple years. Roddick was hurt for those couple years also, then many more afterwords, as unlike Hewitt he didnt stop being a top player forever after 2005. Lets make a reasonable guess though and say both win half of those, so 4 more majors for Roddick, 2 more for Hewitt, Roddick would still have more majors than Hewitt. As for other elements Hewitt would be ahead in some other stats, definitely ahead in WTF titles and probably year end #1s, but Roddick would be way ahead in Masters titles (like he is now) and longevity as a top player.

ark_28
10-26-2012, 03:33 PM
Richard Kraijieck for stooping Pete from winning 8 Wimbledon in a row

Desertman
10-26-2012, 03:33 PM
The good old British weather in the 2001 Wimbledon semi-final between Henman and Ivanisevic. Henman had won the third set 6-0 in about 15 mins when the heavens opened and rain stopped play for the day. The next day he lost the last two sets.

He'd have faced Rafter in the final and I think he would have won.

pc1
10-26-2012, 03:34 PM
[QUOTE=McEnroeisanartist;6976265]Other than Federer against Roddick, I don't think one player has more negatively impacted another player's career quite like Becker against Lendl.

QUOTE]

I am looking more at matches that changed tennis history - not just for the opponent.

Some players that are in that league

- Soderling at FO 2009 - Could have resulted in Rafa getting 8 consecutive FO , put a blemish on Federer's career not being complete.

- Rafa / Rain at FO 2012 - Nole was on a tear in the 3rd set and but for the rain may have got the FO 2012 and won a 'Nole' Slam / Completed career slam.

Okay I'll give you two game changers. In 1984 John McEnroe was virtually unbeatable winning 82 of 85 matches and two of three majors that he entered. McEnroe reached the French Open final easily and led his nemesis Ivan Lendl two sets to none and I think he was a break up in either the third or fourth sets. McEnroe may have gotten distracted by side events (cameras) and lost to Lendl in five sets. He won Wimbledon and the US Open easily. If he had won the French, I believe McEnroe would have entered the Australian and would have had a super chance to win the Grand Slam.

Second one is this, Borg in 1978 won the French and Wimbledon, got to the final of the US Open against a player he was now clearly superior to in Jimmy Connors. Borg developed I believe a blister on his thumb and lost to Connors in straight sets. If Borg was healthy I think he would have defeated Connors easily like he did three years later in the semi of the US Open. Again, if Borg won he would have gone to play the Australian for one of the few time in his career and obviously he would have been a massive favorite to win the tournament and the Grand Slam.

RAFA2005RG
10-26-2012, 05:13 PM
Don't you think that Rafa kinda helped Fed to keep motivated over the years and helped him raise the bar a touch? Everyone needs a rival to keep them on their toes and strive to do better.

Rubbish. Nadal leads Federer 8-2 at the slams. Nadal has won their last 5 slam meetings (2 AO, 2 RG, 1 W). That is far from a "rival". That is a master. Nadal kept Federer slamless from early 2010 to mid-2012. Nadal didn't help Federer to 'strive to do better', he kept him down. The only way Nadal helps Federer is by being injured.

BauerAlmeida
10-26-2012, 05:44 PM
-Nadal spoiled Coria's career and Fed's claycourt career. If it wasn't for Nadal, Fed would be sitting in 20+ slams and a couple Calendar Slams
-Fed ruined Hewitt and Roddick
-The USO 95' final really hurt Agassi's career despite he was able to come back
-The rain spoiled Djokovic's grand slam
-The ilness at the beginning of 2004 spoiled Ferrer's career
-The knee injury in 2005 ruined Safin's career
-The death of his nephew ruined Nalbandian's career

Clarky21
10-26-2012, 05:51 PM
-Nadal spoiled Coria's career and Fed's claycourt career. If it wasn't for Nadal, Fed would be sitting in 20+ slams and a couple Calendar Slams
-Fed ruined Hewitt and Roddick
-The USO 95' final really hurt Agassi's career despite he was able to come back
-The rain spoiled Djokovic's grand slam-The ilness at the beginning of 2004 spoiled Ferrer's career
-The knee injury in 2005 ruined Safin's career
-The death of his nephew ruined Nalbandian's career


I think you mean the rain allowed him to win a set he never would have won without it.

Mike Sams
10-26-2012, 09:04 PM
[QUOTE=tennisaddict;6976296]



No. If it had been sunny with no rain to make the court into a mudpit,******* never even takes a set. Hilarious that people can't seem to grasp that ******* went on his run of games won when the balls turned to heavy soaked sponges,and the court turned to sh*t.


And ******* didn't even deserve to win RG with the way he played all the way through. Nadal played better than he did as a whole and deserved to win.

Djokovic beat Federer in straight sets in the SF of Roland Garros. Nadal only did that one time against Federer in 5 RG meetings.

cc0509
10-26-2012, 09:05 PM
I think you mean the rain allowed him to win a set he never would have won without it.

But you were saying for months and months before the FO how Nadal had no chance of defeating Djokovic there this time. Make up your mind. Either Nadal had no chance of winning the FO or the rain allowed Djokovic to win a set he never would have won without it. It can't be both.

Zarfot Z
10-28-2012, 02:55 AM
Without Federer, Roddick would be the 2nd best player of Federer's era (considering Djokovic is largely another era). That alone would be enough for people to roll their eyes and look at Federer's records as a bit of a joke. I would argue Nadal is a godsend for Federer. Outdoing an all time great like Nadal, despite Nadal getting the better of their head to head by a long way and beating him in all those slam finals, Federer got the better atleast so far in slam wins and achievements, legitimizes Federer's records and career.

You're ********. Without Nadal Federer would have around 20-25 Grand Slams by now.

kiki
10-28-2012, 03:03 AM
Rosewall spoilt Laver´s last chance to win the only missing big title in his career when he defeated Rocket at the 1972 WCT finals, still considered the best or one of the best matches in history.

Lendl spoiled Vitas chances to win the Masters, in Vitas second final there.Lendl saved a match point at the third set tie breaker and was led 0-2 up to that point.

Borg spoiled Ilie Nastase´s chances to win the Wimbledon title he ahd long time strived for in their one sided 1976 final.Nastase had improved Borg´s serve a few weeks before, much to his own disgrace.

Connors spoilt ken Rosewall´s last chance to win Wimbledon after three finals lost.In his fourth final, 40 yrs old Rosewall could not take a single set from Connors.When asked by the rpess why he had been so merciless in the final, Connors offered " I´ve seen people pitty Rosewall and then see him win in the fifth set".

ledwix
10-28-2012, 03:13 AM
Without Federer, Roddick would be the 2nd best player of Federer's era (considering Djokovic is largely another era).

So you're saying Djokovic is from a different era than Federer, so old man Federer taking the #1 ranking from peak Djokovic doesn't count? That's incredibly backwards reasoning which ignores longevity. 2012 is when the weak era argument officially lost all credibility.

If Federer was so mediocre at age 24 then he shouldn't be #1 seven years later after 14 years on tour in a supposed stronger era in which peak Djokovic somehow doesn't count as competition since he is at his peak and Fed is old. (lol) And Federer's most common opponents on tour all-time are Djokovic and Nadal. Ever consider that?

Gorecki
10-28-2012, 04:44 AM
Sampras ruined Becker's Wimbledon GOAT potential as he could have 6 Wimbledons without Sampras

Sampras ruined Ivanisevic's career as he could have 4 Wimbledons and 1 U.S Open without Pete.

Gaudio ended Coria's career.

reading your post i was thinking how these two also stood in the way of Rafter in wimbledon.

wimbledon is definitely the theater of tennis!

Blocker
11-06-2012, 01:46 AM
McEnroe beating Borg in the 81 Wimbledon final and 2 USO finals has to be right up there, for 3 reasons:

1) He stopped Borg winning 6 Ws in a row.

2) He denied Borg a USO title which Borg was desperate for.

3) He probably forced Borg into early retirement, at just 26.

Who knows how much longer Borg could have played and how many more slams he would have won if not for JM. Borg could well have been the undisputed GOAT, even today.

I also agree with an earlier poster, Becker put a huge dent in Lendl's career.