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ollinger
10-27-2012, 06:28 AM
Much ranting on this board recently about thin crowds at some WTA events, suggesting there's little interest in women's tennis. Well, anyone watching the ATP Basel event this week? You would have thought people were there to see a high school basketball team practicing, with a bare scattering of people in the seats even for late round matches. Difficult to count on TV, but it looked like a few hundred people were watching when I tuned in yesterday. And this is in Switzerland, which has more male top-20 players per capita (population about 8 million) than any country on the planet!

dominikk1985
10-27-2012, 06:36 AM
the problem is that most people are not "tennis fans" but "celebritiy fans" which means they only care for their hero.

it's OK to be fan of certain players but if you just care for nadal or fed and don't care otherwise you are not a real tennis fan.

Sabratha
10-27-2012, 06:48 AM
More people should have been there, I agree, but it's an ATP 500 tournament, not a Grand Slam.

batz
10-27-2012, 06:49 AM
Much ranting on this board recently about thin crowds at some WTA events, suggesting there's little interest in women's tennis. Well, anyone watching the ATP Basel event this week? You would have thought people were there to see a high school basketball team practicing, with a bare scattering of people in the seats even for late round matches. Difficult to count on TV, but it looked like a few hundred people were watching when I tuned in yesterday. And this is in Switzerland, which has more male top-20 players per capita (population about 8 million) than any country on the planet!

Starting a week on Monday, more than 30,000 people per day will turn up for 8 straight days to watch the best the ATP has to offer. Things aren't all bad.

The Bawss
10-27-2012, 07:03 AM
Much ranting on this board recently about thin crowds at some WTA events, suggesting there's little interest in women's tennis. Well, anyone watching the ATP Basel event this week? You would have thought people were there to see a high school basketball team practicing, with a bare scattering of people in the seats even for late round matches. Difficult to count on TV, but it looked like a few hundred people were watching when I tuned in yesterday. And this is in Switzerland, which has more male top-20 players per capita (population about 8 million) than any country on the planet!

The stands you can see on the TV behind the players are special member card seats, I don't even know how to go about getting them but you can be damn sure they will be ******* expensive. Along both sides of the courts are boxes reserved for different companies in Basel and are usually empty except when Fed is playing. Above those company boxes and the membercard stands (barely shown on TV), where the "normal" people sit, seats are 229chf (£152 or 245$) for the first round and 259chf (£172 or 277$) for the QF, SF and F. Little wonder nobody turns up for non-Federer matches.

3fees
10-27-2012, 07:24 AM
Its called the Law of Supply and Demand- On the Demand Side-Demand is inverse to price-as price goes up demand goes down, as price goes down demand goes up..lol

jokinla
10-27-2012, 07:26 AM
If you want to see a bust, separate Tennis Channel into two different channels, a WTA version and an ATP version, and see what goes under.

batz
10-27-2012, 07:48 AM
If you want to see a bust, separate Tennis Channel into two different channels, a WTA version and an ATP version, and see what goes under.

You can do it at the same tournament. A couple of years ago I had centre court tickets for R4 Monday. Rog V Melzer, Masha v Serena, Murray v Querrey. No prizes for guessing which one of the 3 wasn't played in front of a full house.

paulorenzo
10-27-2012, 07:49 AM
basel seats seemed stocked pretty well this week.

tennisaddict
10-27-2012, 07:58 AM
Roger's Semifinals was a full-house.

underground
10-27-2012, 08:12 AM
Roger's Semifinals was a full-house.

Every Roger match was a full-house. One of the coms said that they could have got double the amount booked.

ollinger
10-27-2012, 08:33 AM
To summarize, the consensus here is;
1) don't worry, people will show up for the slams and the YEC. In other words, most of the tour is a bust.
2) don't worry, Swiss fans will show up if Federer is playing. In other words, most of the tour is a bust.
3) don't worry, it may be a bust but the WTA is a bigger bust, so to speak.

Ms Nadal
10-27-2012, 09:15 AM
the problem is that most people are not "tennis fans" but "celebritiy fans" which means they only care for their hero.

it's OK to be fan of certain players but if you just care for nadal or fed and don't care otherwise you are not a real tennis fan.

Exactly! Because it is an individual sport. People just turn out to see their favourites.

Homeboy Hotel
10-27-2012, 09:23 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z51q_BiUoVo/TZdn4HDsA6I/AAAAAAAAAAY/CLiyG97go60/s1600/Supply+and+Demand.jpg

+

ATP prices

=

No one bothers to watch

Steve0904
10-27-2012, 09:51 AM
To summarize, the consensus here is;
1) don't worry, people will show up for the slams and the YEC. In other words, most of the tour is a bust.
2) don't worry, Swiss fans will show up if Federer is playing. In other words, most of the tour is a bust.
3) don't worry, it may be a bust but the WTA is a bigger bust, so to speak.

The thing is, you have to care about a player or players to want to watch them. It's not just today. It's anytime in tennis history. "Most" of the tour has always been a "bust." I would also at least include the 1000 events as ones that get good attendence overall. You won't get full houses at any event, slams included, if the two players playing are scrubs (for lack of a better word) you don't care about.

The difference between the ATP and the WTA is like night and day. Comparing present day tours is an insult to the ATP. The mens game has true rivalries at the top of the sport, and guys that are making history with nearly every match. The WTA on the other hand has no rivalries except for maybe Sharapova and Azarenka, and that doesn't matter because when Serena actually decides to play she smokes both of them regularly along with everybody (and I mean everybody) else. Add to that the fact that both of them make ungodly noises, and I can understand why the stadium is not full.

paulorenzo
10-27-2012, 10:14 AM
You can do it at the same tournament. A couple of years ago I had centre court tickets for R4 Monday. Rog V Melzer, Masha v Serena, Murray v Querrey. No prizes for guessing which one of the 3 wasn't played in front of a full house.

i dont know why my brain registered, melzer v querrey instead of murray v querrey. melzer v querrey pulling in more than sharopova and serena—that would be something. 8-)

smoledman
10-27-2012, 11:21 AM
Simple, there is huge demand for Federer and not as much for everyone else. Don't forget Basel had no Djokovic or Murray this week. That hurt.

But Federer is the Apple of the tennis world. Everyone wants his product.

elpolaco84
10-27-2012, 01:45 PM
or you can blame the rain, or the change of the surface colour,etc..
:mrgreen::mrgreen:

PeteD
10-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Exactly! Because it is an individual sport. People just turn out to see their favourites.

Dunno, I think there's plenty fans of the game, especially when it's affordable. First week of an Open, for example, people with day passes wander in and out of side courts, then when a real "match" develops, word spreads and even if its players you hardly know, the empty seats disappear.

ctoth666
10-27-2012, 03:34 PM
I happen to be the rare individual who think that tennis is one of the only sports worth watching in person. Heck I'd go to watch a lvl. 4 or lower USTA junior tournament if it were held at my local club. And I'll attend any men's professional match if possible. Court-side professional tennis is a great experience.

jaggy
10-27-2012, 03:44 PM
Television rules sport, people dont matter

not_federer
10-27-2012, 03:48 PM
the problem is that most people are not "tennis fans" but "celebritiy fans" which means they only care for their hero.

it's OK to be fan of certain players but if you just care for nadal or fed and don't care otherwise you are not a real tennis fan.

True Scotsman fallacy.

BlueB
10-27-2012, 03:58 PM
And this is in Switzerland, which has more male top-20 players per capita (population about 8 million) than any country on the planet!
Wrong. Serbia has just over 7 million people, 2 top 20 players... If you look at top 10 or top 40, it becomes even more dramatic.

PeteD
10-27-2012, 05:44 PM
Wrong. Serbia has just over 7 million people, 2 top 20 players... If you look at top 10 or top 40, it becomes even more dramatic.

I just ranked top players by per capita, i.e., by contry population, in the thread
on nationalities if anyone wants to see. Short answer, Serbia.

Feña14
10-27-2012, 05:45 PM
You can do it at the same tournament. A couple of years ago I had centre court tickets for R4 Monday. Rog V Melzer, Masha v Serena, Murray v Querrey. No prizes for guessing which one of the 3 wasn't played in front of a full house.

I'm with you there, Sharapova was the middle match the day I went. That's the time people decided to go and look on the outside courts, get some food etc.. The ones that did stay seemed to find the shrieking amusing, but not the tennis.

PeteD
10-27-2012, 05:51 PM
I happen to be the rare individual who think that tennis is one of the only sports worth watching in person. Heck I'd go to watch a lvl. 4 or lower USTA junior tournament if it were held at my local club. And I'll attend any men's professional match if possible. Court-side professional tennis is a great experience.

I agree 100%. There's a Div I school near me and some of the matches get so intense it's amazing, and you are right on top of the action like the small Tour events.

*Sparkle*
10-28-2012, 12:18 AM
You do have to be careful to judge attendance from what you see on tv. I noticed a lot at Shanghai that when they only showed the front section, it could often look really quiet, but as soon as they panned up to show the whole stadium, the cheaper seats further back were much busier.

This is a problem they had at the Olympics, where a certain proportion of seats had to be kept back for the official sporting bodies, the extended teams and sponsors, and these were often in key locations. When they weren't filling the seats, there were visibly large gaps making the place look empty, even if that allocation was less than 5%

After a few days, they found a way to get the un-used seats back into circulation for people who did want to go, and perhaps some of these tournaments need to do the same. It's all very well having seats reserved for sponsors, but it makes everyone look bad when they don't show up.

In Switzerland, everything tennis related is bound to focus on Federer and the media probably only give lip service to the other players for turning up to help him win so many tournaments. It doesn't help that most of the top players who were playing this week went to Valencia, so there was only Stan (who had an early exit) and perhaps Del Potro that the more casual fan would be interested in.

Del Potro is probably a good draw there, as he'd have got added attention for the monster match at the Olympics semis, then also making it onto the podium.

sureshs
10-28-2012, 10:08 AM
To summarize, the consensus here is;
1) don't worry, people will show up for the slams and the YEC. In other words, most of the tour is a bust.
2) don't worry, Swiss fans will show up if Federer is playing. In other words, most of the tour is a bust.
3) don't worry, it may be a bust but the WTA is a bigger bust, so to speak.

Istanbul was sold out

dominikk1985
10-28-2012, 01:39 PM
True Scotsman fallacy.

don't you agree with me?

In germany it was the same. during the becker era anyone was crazy about tennis. millions of kids went to tennis clubs and anyone was watching it.

now nobody cares for tennis, the clubs have lost hundredthousends of members and they don't even show mens tennis in free TV with an exeption of the slams and 2-3 more tournaments.

that can happen in switzerland too. A tennis hype that is just based on one start is short lived.

Gizo
10-28-2012, 07:45 PM
Tennis doesn't have many diehard fans compared to team sports.

Unless a sports team faces financial difficulties and folds or relocates to another city, while players, coaches and owners will come and go, they will always be there for fans to root for.

When a star tennis player retires, many of their fans will lose interest in the sport altogether, and when a country is no longer a tennis superpower any more, national interest can plummet rapidly.

Many casual fans find the tennis scoring system confusing. In team sports it's so much easier to understand who is winning with more points on the board, more goals etc. Also it is not a TV friendly sport as you never know when a match will finish (or start if it isn't the first match on the daily OOP).

Bartelby
10-28-2012, 07:51 PM
Would you rather watch tennis on tv, which youve already paid for anyway, or spend a lot of money to sit in a small seat?

jokinla
10-28-2012, 11:30 PM
Istanbul was sold out

It's Istanbul, what else are they gonna do???????

cknobman
10-29-2012, 06:56 AM
I think the problem is that corporations and rich people make demand for so many of the good seats so high that they are priced out of the affordability of the majority of people on the planet.

These corporations and rich people dont show up 90% of the time to fill the seats they purchased except for the showcase matches and then the decent seats they did not purchase are now at sky high prices and no one else can afford to purchase them.

sureshs
10-29-2012, 08:25 AM
Well, be happy that golf is heading in the same direction. Some ex-bigwig in golf said this year that golf is dead in the US. He meant that the golf course construction business was dead, but then he clarified that the sport itself has declined in the US, and at the same time, expanded globally. Golf course architects are focusing their efforts globally now.

jokinla
10-29-2012, 10:08 AM
Well, be happy that golf is heading in the same direction. Some ex-bigwig in golf said this year that golf is dead in the US. He meant that the golf course construction business was dead, but then he clarified that the sport itself has declined in the US, and at the same time, expanded globally. Golf course architects are focusing their efforts globally now.

As long as there is a "sport" that old fat guys can play and still drink beer, it'll be popular in the US.