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tennis_pro
10-28-2012, 01:03 PM
He says that the best version of Serena, the 2012 Olympics Serena to be more precise, can beat (not hang with, BEAT) a top 20 male player. I supported my arguements with tons of examples (Davenport's husband, Evert, the battle of sexes, Braasch etc.) but to no avail.

So what do you think, people?

LeeD
10-28-2012, 01:04 PM
He's right. She could challenge any of the top 20.
But HER challenge would be getting a response at all.
And of course, assuming a top 200 ATP is interested at all, her challenge would be to get 3 games each set.

6-1 6-3 6-0
10-28-2012, 01:04 PM
She could probably beat Federer.

NadalDramaQueen
10-28-2012, 01:10 PM
You should make new friends.

She could probably beat Federer.

I know she could beat Rafa, by default, of course. Perhaps Rafa would edge her out in a poker game, though.

The Bawss
10-28-2012, 01:10 PM
A medium to low top-20 guy like Nishikori recently managed to bagel Raonic. What do you think he would do to Serena's WTA serve?

Lucky-to-be-in-the-top20 guys like Simon or Kohlschreiber have beaten all time greats Federer and Nadal respectively. If these guys have the weapons to beat those guys, they can beat Serena 6-0 6-1 while humming the Yankee doodle and solving a Rubik's cube.

dominikk1985
10-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Just google "Karsten Braasch"

/end of thread

90's Clay
10-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Umm didn't she get destroyed by a guy ranked 600 or something in the world?

KineticChain
10-28-2012, 01:24 PM
Is it that time of the week again? I can't wait for next week's "can Serena beat ATP players?" thread.

tennis_pro
10-28-2012, 01:24 PM
A medium to low top-20 guy like Nishikori recently managed to bagel Raonic. What do you think he would do to Serena's WTA serve?

Lucky-to-be-in-the-top20 guys like Simon or Kohlschreiber have beaten all time greats Federer and Nadal respectively. If these guys have the weapons to beat those guys, they can beat Serena 6-0 6-1 while humming the Yankee doodle and solving a Rubik's cube.

You know what he said?

That Raonic could have the advantage in serve but Serena is better from the baseline.

Then after watching the Tokyo 2012 final highlights, he said that Serena would return Raonic's serve, just because she could get her racquet on the returns (talking about huge serves but hit into the body)

Mainad
10-28-2012, 01:24 PM
He says that the best version of Serena, the 2012 Olympics Serena to be more precise, can beat (not hang with, BEAT) a top 20 male player. I supported my arguements with tons of examples (Davenport's husband, Evert, the battle of sexes, Braasch etc.) but to no avail.

So what do you think, people?

I think you need to meet some new friends who know and understand a thing or two about the enormous differences between men's and women's tennis! :cool:

dominikk1985
10-28-2012, 01:27 PM
Umm didn't she get destroyed by a guy ranked 600 or something in the world?

his name was Karsten braasch. he was ranked like 180 then and in his mid 30s. in the first set he beat serena like 6-1 then smoked a cigarette or two and then easily beat venus.

Towser83
10-28-2012, 01:33 PM
She could probably beat Federer.

with her handbag or barefists maybe. :lol:

Mustard
10-28-2012, 01:57 PM
At the time of the 1998 Australian Open, Karsten Braasch was ranked 203 in the world. Braasch was in the tournament as a qualifier, and despite his lowly ranking, was defending a Round of 32 result from the 1997 Australian Open. At the 1998 Australian Open, Braasch lost his first round match to Alberto Berasategui, with Berasategui winning 3-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-3. Later that day, Braasch heard Serena Williams claim that she could beat a top 200 male player, and the men's tour manager asked Braasch to take Serena up on the offer and have a match the following week. Braasch accepted, and spent the morning of the match playing golf and drinking shandies.

The match took place on Court 17 at Melbourne Park. Braasch raced out to a 5-0 lead against Serena, as Venus then arrived, and Braasch beat Serena 6-1. Braasch had employed a great deal of spin on the balls, which was seldom seen at all on the women's tour at the time. As Braasch and Serena were shaking hands. Venus then got on the court herself and demanded to take on Braasch. Venus had just lost her quarter final match to Lindsay Davenport, with Davenport winning 1-6, 7-5, 6-3. Braasch then beat Venus in a similar fashion to the way he had beaten Serena, although Venus managed an extra game as Braasch won 6-2.

Afterwards, the sisters claimed that they could beat a top 350 ranked male player, and Braasch offered to face them again after the Australian Open, as Braasch's world ranking would fall to 339. 4 months later at the 1998 French Open, Venus went up to Braasch with a smile and said "You know that thing in Australia? It never happened".

Of course, it must be mentioned that Venus and Serena were not the top female players at the time, as that was Hingis, but I doubt Braasch would have had too much trouble with Hingis either.

90's Clay
10-28-2012, 02:02 PM
At the time of the 1998 Australian Open, Karsten Braasch was ranked 203 in the world. Braasch was in the tournament as a qualifier, and despite his lowly ranking, was defending a Round of 32 result from the 1997 Australian Open. At the 1998 Australian Open, Braasch lost his first round match to Alberto Berasategui, with Berasategui winning 3-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-3. Later that day, Braasch heard Serena Williams claim that she could beat a top 200 male player, and the men's tour manager asked Braasch to take Serena up on the offer and have a match the following week. Braasch accepted, and spent the morning of the match playing golf and drinking shandies.

The match took place on Court 17 at Melbourne Park. Braasch raced out to a 5-0 lead against Serena, as Venus then arrived, and Braasch beat Serena 6-1. Braasch had employed a great deal of spin on the balls, which was seldom seen at all on the women's tour at the time. As Braasch and Serena were shaking hands. Venus then got on the court herself and demanded to take on Braasch. Venus had just lost her quarter final match to Lindsay Davenport, with Davenport winning 1-6, 7-5, 6-3. Braasch then beat Venus in a similar fashion to the way he had beaten Serena, although Venus managed an extra game as Braasch won 6-2.

Afterwards, the sisters claimed that they could beat a top 350 ranked male player, and Braasch offered to face them again after the Australian Open, as Braasch's ranking would fall to 339. 4 months later at the 1998 French Open, Venus went up to Braasch with a smile and said "You know that thing in Australia? It never happened".

Of course, it must be mentioned that Venus and Serena were not the top female players at the time, as that was Hingis, but I doubt Braasch would have had too much trouble with Hingis either.

I think thats enough proof to show Serena would have NO hope of even winning a set vs any of the top 250 in the world today much less "challenging" the top 20

tennis_pro
10-28-2012, 02:06 PM
At the time of the 1998 Australian Open, Karsten Braasch was ranked 203 in the world. Braasch was in the tournament as a qualifier, and despite his lowly ranking, was defending a Round of 32 result from the 1997 Australian Open. At the 1998 Australian Open, Braasch lost his first round match to Alberto Berasategui, with Berasategui winning 3-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-3. Later that day, Braasch heard Serena Williams claim that she could beat a top 200 male player, and the men's tour manager asked Braasch to take Serena up on the offer and have a match the following week. Braasch accepted, and spent the morning of the match playing golf and drinking shandies.

The match took place on Court 17 at Melbourne Park. Braasch raced out to a 5-0 lead against Serena, as Venus then arrived, and Braasch beat Serena 6-1. Braasch had employed a great deal of spin on the balls, which was seldom seen at all on the women's tour at the time. As Braasch and Serena were shaking hands. Venus then got on the court herself and demanded to take on Braasch. Venus had just lost her quarter final match to Lindsay Davenport, with Davenport winning 1-6, 7-5, 6-3. Braasch then beat Venus in a similar fashion to the way he had beaten Serena, although Venus managed an extra game as Braasch won 6-2.

Afterwards, the sisters claimed that they could beat a top 350 ranked male player, and Braasch offered to face them again after the Australian Open, as Braasch's ranking would fall to 339. 4 months later at the 1998 French Open, Venus went up to Braasch with a smile and said "You know that thing in Australia? It never happened".

Of course, it must be mentioned that Venus and Serena were not the top female players at the time, as that was Hingis, but I doubt Braasch would have had too much trouble with Hingis either.

That was the first thing I told him but he responded that Serena wasn't as good as she became later on (which is true but to a degree as Braasch also owned Venus who was in the top 5 at the time, so not sure it would make a difference).

As he's sort of immune to facts and rational arguements, I'd rather hear your opinion, Mustard, since I know you're a rational poster. What do you think?

PrinceMoron
10-28-2012, 02:12 PM
The spin always does it.

Mustard
10-28-2012, 02:12 PM
That was the first thing I told him but he responded that Serena wasn't as good as she became later on (which is true but to a degree as Braasch also owned Venus who was in the top 5 at the time, so not sure it would make a difference).

As he's sort of immune to facts and rational arguements, I'd rather hear your opinion, Mustard, since I know you're a rational poster. What do you think?

Serena beating the top 20 male players today? No chance at all, unless there's a retirement. If you go down the rankings a few hundred places, you will get male players who are very inexperienced with cameras and public pressure and all that stuff. Braasch did mention that he was glad the match(es) were on Court 17, rather than on the main courts with a load of cameras, as that would have increased the pressure on Braasch, even though Braasch had been ranked as high as 38 in the world at one stage. But with the top 20 male players, they are all very experienced with that sort of stuff with the cameras and public pressure.

Steve0904
10-28-2012, 02:14 PM
That was the first thing I told him but he responded that Serena wasn't as good as she became later on (which is true but to a degree as Braasch also owned Venus who was in the top 5 at the time, so not sure it would make a difference).

As he's sort of immune to facts and rational arguements, I'd rather hear your opinion, Mustard, since I know you're a rational poster. What do you think?

I'm pretty sure Mustard just told you.

TheNatural
10-28-2012, 02:16 PM
Her hitting partner can beat her, what ranking is her hitting partner?

dominikk1985
10-28-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't even think that serena right now can beat a 55 yo Mcenroe.

The Bawss
10-28-2012, 02:23 PM
I don't even think that serena right now can beat a 55 yo Mcenroe.

Assuming she is > 5.0 NTRP, she can beat McEnroe.

Stroke
10-28-2012, 02:31 PM
I don't even think that serena right now can beat a 55 yo Mcenroe.

I get the feeling that McEnroe would really like to play her in singles. And I agree, he would win on any surface.

NLBwell
10-28-2012, 04:29 PM
Depends on what you mean by "decent" college players - the ones with ATP points or how much lower than that.

NadalAgassi
10-28-2012, 05:23 PM
Just google "Karsten Braasch"

/end of thread

Considering the current Serena would dish out a golden set to the 15 year old rookie Serena that Braash played all that shows is Serena would easily beat someone like Braasch who didnt come even close to doing that to 15 year old diapered Serena. :)

BauerAlmeida
10-28-2012, 06:09 PM
She could play a guy around 500-700 in the rankings.

A Top 20?? LOL

Romismak
10-28-2012, 06:11 PM
This topic again.... her serve best in WTA history is average serve for atp 100 standards-maybe her placement and ace count is more to atp50, but speed wise -rawpower on serve - more top 100

Her power-strenght comparing to men-well she won´t overpower tham like at WTA can do

3rd- most important factor - her speed-movement-deffense - well she is to slow to compete with men, this would be exposed so much

4th - she has no idea what it mean to face her serve and her power - something that any top 100 men can do + even bigger serves and more powerfull groundstrokes than hers - she would be outpowered, outserverd - not mentioning movement department difference between her and ATP guys.

Amelie Mauresmo
10-28-2012, 06:42 PM
The OP should go to You Tube there is a Hopman Cup mixed doubles video of Serena and Mardy Fish defeating Djokovic and Jankovic. Serena had no problem returning Djokovic's serve and she also aced Novak twice.

I don't know if Serena can beat top 20 men BUT I do believe she is definitely capable of being some men in the top 100.

Serena's serve is very powerful and she has a lot of variety. Serena also returns huge people don't realize how hard she hits the ball. Out of the all the WTA players Serena has the ability to beat the men.

pvaudio
10-28-2012, 06:45 PM
:lol: You stole my quote, tennis_pro

The-Champ
10-28-2012, 06:51 PM
The OP should go to You Tube there is a Hopman Cup mixed doubles video of Serena and Mardy Fish defeating Djokovic and Jankovic. Serena had no problem returning Djokovic's serve and she also aced Novak twice.

I don't know if Serena can beat top 20 men BUT I do believe she is definitely capable of being some men in the top 100.

Serena's serve is very powerful and she has a lot of variety. Serena also returns huge people don't realize how hard she hits the ball. Out of the all the WTA players Serena has the ability to beat the men.


Huge Serena fan here, but there is no way she is beating a man in the top 500, let alone in the top 20 lol. Men play a different ball game.

Her A-game would beat any woman in history, that I can agree with.

drakulie
10-28-2012, 06:52 PM
a coach I know works with several top juniors. One of them has practiced with her several times, and she has never taken a set off him.

PS: He doesn't have any atp points.

>>>>>End Thread<<<<<<

Gizo
10-28-2012, 07:16 PM
It's also important to consider that in many women's grand slam events and the WTA tour events, they use lighter tennis balls than in men's slams and ATP tour events. That does put the power statistics of Serena and the other top WTA players in perspective in comparison to those of ATP players.

Serena's hitting partner Aleksandar Bajin whose career high ranking in men's tennis was world no. 1149, has no trouble beating her. Serena wouldn't have hired him if he couldn't beat her. That's a big advantage that female tennis players have over male ones actually. They can hire male hitting partners who can beat them in a match scenario and out-rally them, allowing them to improve. The best male players don't have that luxury and are forced to hit with each other more.

jamesblakefan#1
10-28-2012, 07:24 PM
Why must we always have this debate? Serena is a great women's player. She would NOT challenge any top male player, period. It's just a way of putting down Serena instead of recognizing how great she is compared to the women's field, people have to bring up how she'd get destroyed by the men.

mmk
10-28-2012, 07:25 PM
a coach I know works with several top juniors. One of them has practiced with her several times, and she has never taken a set off him.

PS: He doesn't have any atp points.

>>>>>End Thread<<<<<<

Similar story about John Evert & his sister. Obviously she was nowhere near Serena's power, but how many people have ever heard of John?

Murray1337
10-28-2012, 07:27 PM
The OP should go to You Tube there is a Hopman Cup mixed doubles video of Serena and Mardy Fish defeating Djokovic and Jankovic. Serena had no problem returning Djokovic's serve and she also aced Novak twice.

I don't know if Serena can beat top 20 men BUT I do believe she is definitely capable of being some men in the top 100.

Serena's serve is very powerful and she has a lot of variety. Serena also returns huge people don't realize how hard she hits the ball. Out of the all the WTA players Serena has the ability to beat the men.

O________O

Sabratha
10-28-2012, 07:29 PM
She couldn't beat any men in the top 300.

swordtennis
10-28-2012, 07:36 PM
Had a feeling this insanity would start.
Always have said let them play the men top ten vs top ten. cowards. neutered men.
10-0 ATP.

swordtennis
10-28-2012, 07:42 PM
a coach I know works with several top juniors. One of them has practiced with her several times, and she has never taken a set off him.

PS: He doesn't have any atp points.

>>>>>End Thread<<<<<<

Way Cool.:)

okdude1992
10-28-2012, 07:56 PM
Is it that time of the week again? I can't wait for next week's "can Serena beat ATP players?" thread.

Ha! I'm planning on starting another one tomorrow. It's amazing how often these come up, and even more amazing how clueless some people are.

Mick
10-28-2012, 08:01 PM
Why must we always have this debate? Serena is a great women's player. She would NOT challenge any top male player, period. It's just a way of putting down Serena instead of recognizing how great she is compared to the women's field, people have to bring up how she'd get destroyed by the men.

one can look at this in another way, instead of putting Serena down, some people say she is so good that she could be competitive with the male players. But even the people who don't think she could hang with the male players recognize that she's one of the best female tennis players in history. So, there's more upside than downside, imo.

Leelord337
10-28-2012, 08:13 PM
He says that the best version of Serena, the 2012 Olympics Serena to be more precise, can beat (not hang with, BEAT) a top 20 male player. I supported my arguements with tons of examples (Davenport's husband, Evert, the battle of sexes, Braasch etc.) but to no avail.

So what do you think, people?

http://rlv.zcache.com/are_you_kidding_me_rage_face_meme_mousepad-p144357277684848604envq7_400.jpg

BruceG
10-28-2012, 08:33 PM
The OP should go to You Tube there is a Hopman Cup mixed doubles video of Serena and Mardy Fish defeating Djokovic and Jankovic. Serena had no problem returning Djokovic's serve and she also aced Novak twice.

I don't know if Serena can beat top 20 men BUT I do believe she is definitely capable of being some men in the top 100.

Serena's serve is very powerful and she has a lot of variety. Serena also returns huge people don't realize how hard she hits the ball. Out of the all the WTA players Serena has the ability to beat the men.

Djokovic was only serving at half pace, just spinning and kicking it in. If he'd served like Fish , who was blasting them as hard as he could, Serena wouldn't have had the slightest chance. Nole was being a gentleman, don't mistake that for Serena being able to handle his game.

Simply put, everything she does that makes her game so special against women would be nothing more than routine for, at the very least, the top 200 or 300 men. More than that, I'd say there's a bunch of guys who are long retired from the tour that would handle her game with ease.

smoledman
10-28-2012, 08:45 PM
LOL... 630 typical trolling

rommil
10-28-2012, 08:51 PM
The top 20 ATP would serve Serena bagels, then she eats it all.

Agassifan
10-28-2012, 09:50 PM
She can beat Nadal if they played today. Otherwise she has no hope of beating a healthy top 100 player.

SQA333
10-28-2012, 10:20 PM
She could probably beat Federer.

And Federer could probably beat Nadal.

:lol:

smoledman
10-28-2012, 10:29 PM
And Federer could probably beat Nadal.

:lol:

Federer did beat Nadal in Indian Wells, straight sets no less in super windy conditions.

Paullaconte1
10-28-2012, 10:42 PM
Just google "Karsten Braasch"

/end of thread

This is the answer

Braasch competed in a 'Battle of the Sexes' contest against Venus Williams and Serena Williams at the 1998 Australian Open when he was ranked 203. A decade and a half older than the sisters, Braasch "was a man whose training regime centred around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager."[2] He nonetheless handily defeated both sisters, playing a single set against each, beating Serena 6–1 and Venus 6–2.[3] According to his own account of the event, he prepared for the game by playing a leisurely round of golf and drinking a couple of shandies.[4]
Contents

jokinla
10-28-2012, 11:12 PM
She could probably beat Federer.

At eating Krispy Kreme donuts, no doubt ***.

jokinla
10-28-2012, 11:14 PM
She could probably beat Rosol!!!

tusharlovesrafa
10-29-2012, 12:41 AM
She could probably beat Rosol!!!

lol........:)

Prisoner of Birth
10-29-2012, 12:46 AM
She could probably beat Rosol!!!

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

SQA333
10-29-2012, 01:09 AM
Federer did beat Nadal in Indian Wells, straight sets no less in super windy conditions.

I guess I should've been more forthright with my wording.

Sabratha
10-29-2012, 01:21 AM
I bet even injury ridden Safin and Hewitt could beat Serena in straight sets. Even Davydenko.

tennis_pro
10-29-2012, 01:24 AM
:lol: You stole my quote, tennis_pro

yea, sorry, lawl

I asked for your permission the other day but you didn't respond, hope you don't mind cause it's brilliant!

tennis_pro
10-29-2012, 01:31 AM
I bet even injury ridden Safin and Hewitt could beat Serena in straight sets. Even Davydenko.

Even Davydenko. Even him.

In his 50's you mean

jokinla
10-29-2012, 01:49 AM
Seriously, I think you should get your friend to the doctor, it's clear he's hit his head.

FEDisanAlien
10-29-2012, 01:59 AM
She could probably beat Federer.

today she would baggled the quiter nadal

Ms Nadal
10-29-2012, 02:21 AM
I think that people are too hard on Serena. She is a great champion, give her credit where it is due. The other ladies need to raise their game but they don't. She may not be everyone's cup of tea but she knows how to win matches!. She is a lady :)

Sabratha
10-29-2012, 02:37 AM
I think that people are too hard on Serena. She is a great champion, give her credit where it is due. The other ladies need to raise their game but they don't. She may not be everyone's cup of tea but she knows how to win matches!. She is a lady :)
Can you imagine Serena making it to the final of the men's draw in a major?

Ms Nadal
10-29-2012, 02:40 AM
Can you imagine Serena making it to the final of the men's draw in a major?

I have never thought about it to be honest. She has a lot of power, yes. But, let's not diss Serena is all I am saying, really.

5point5
10-29-2012, 06:11 AM
his name was Karsten braasch. he was ranked like 180 then and in his mid 30s. in the first set he beat serena like 6-1 then smoked a cigarette or two and then easily beat venus.

You forget he was drinking beforehand while playing a round of golf.

dominikk1985
10-29-2012, 07:40 AM
do you think mac would beat her with a wood racket?

sunof tennis
10-29-2012, 07:50 AM
She could probably beat Federer.

She would definitely beat Nadal at this point.

Prisoner of Birth
10-29-2012, 08:52 AM
She would definitely beat Nadal at this point.

At what? English Extempore?

Mainad
10-29-2012, 09:05 AM
do you think mac would beat her with a wood racket?

Well, I guess you'd have to ask him that! :)

But could he use it to win a tennis match against her? :wink:

syc23
10-29-2012, 09:09 AM
The only thing Serena can beat the ATP guys are a pork pie eating contest.

Tennis? It would be a straight sets beat down (60 60 60). Guys like Murray would run Serena ragged. David Ferrer would wear Serena out after the 1st game, beating the energizer bunny that is Radwanska is one thing but Ferrer is a different proposition altogether.

Heck McEnroe would probably destroy Serena in straights, JMac was still pretty handy returning Ivanisevic and Philipousis's serves (both were serving 135mph+ easy) on the Champions Tour last year so don't think for a minute Serena would hold easy.

hrstrat57
10-29-2012, 09:09 AM
Silly thread.

Anyone who has ever seen ATP pros on a practice court hit for an extended period of time understands the relentless pace, spin and consistency top players can produce. Folks who just watch tennis on TV really have no idea. Not disrespecting anyone here just stating facts. The ball often explodes in a flurry of green fuzz and at times becomes egg shaped. It really is amazing to behold what top male players can do to a tennis ball.

It is relentless and otherworldly. The WTA players are equally outstanding but it is not even close.....looks it on TV but it is not.

Trust me.

Mcenroe is an even more unique case....the lefty corkscrew serve creates havoc to an opponent who has never experienced it....and Mac can still bring it pretty good - and as stated above he can still return anything.

Would be fun to see a match between him and Serena.....

Roger Wawrinka
10-29-2012, 09:18 AM
All I know is surely Serena would not beat one of these top Juniors that just turned pro such as a Bjorn Fratangelo, Michell Krueger, or Thai-son Kwiatkowski. She also could not beat any man on the Futures circuit.

GoodVibrations
10-29-2012, 09:36 AM
Djokovic was only serving at half pace, just spinning and kicking it in. If he'd served like Fish , who was blasting them as hard as he could, Serena wouldn't have had the slightest chance. Nole was being a gentleman, don't mistake that for Serena being able to handle his game.

Simply put, everything she does that makes her game so special against women would be nothing more than routine for, at the very least, the top 200 or 300 men. More than that, I'd say there's a bunch of guys who are long retired from the tour that would handle her game with ease.

I just watched this video and WHAT a jerk Fish is to ace Jankovic like that at full strength and then stomp around like he's some sort of god.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 09:53 AM
While McEnroe might not be more than a good 6.0 nowadaze, his serve is still something no WTA player has seen. Just plain old NO WTA lefty serves anything close to Mac, no matter how much practice they have against lefty guys.
And Serena, the strongest hitter on the women's tour, still hits a pretty normal ball for a volley happy Mac. She'd play right into hit game.
You guys already saw the recent vids of Mac vs Lendl. Now Lendl wasn't in shape, to be fair, but Mac hit some shots that no woman has seen from the baseline.