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MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 03:52 PM
So many power racket users...why can't I contain the power of a pure drive or aeropro? It truly bugs me. I'm wondering if it is timing, form, or if I just plain hit the way it WASN'T meant to be hit?

Can someone maybe explain to me why this is? Maybe I will post a video of me hitting in the near future.

LeeD
10-28-2012, 03:57 PM
Add spin.
Topspin is one.
Underspin is another.
Sidespin a third, which can be combined with the two above, separately, of course.

Say Chi Sin Lo
10-28-2012, 04:00 PM
Add spin.
Topspin is one.
Underspin is another.
Sidespin a third, which can be combined with the two above, separately, of course.

That sounds like a technique based advice, wouldn't it be largely ignored?

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:00 PM
It seems like I add some spin. My slice is great. I know that much. But my topspin is probably average. Maybe I hit too flat? It seems like I hit with too much spin sometimes though. You know, when the ball just dives into the net?

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:01 PM
That sounds like a technique based advice, wouldn't it be largely ignored?

I'm definitely not gonna ignore ANYTHING. There's too much of a wealth of knowledge here. Lol

LeeD
10-28-2012, 04:02 PM
Look at the pros, even DelPo. They all hit hard, the spin allows the ball to stay in.
if you hit the net, aim higher.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:04 PM
And then when I aim higher, it seems to always sail lol. There's like a really small window.

Frankauc
10-28-2012, 04:09 PM
just play more, it will eventually go in, it's not the racket, we all went through this phase

Say Chi Sin Lo
10-28-2012, 04:09 PM
I'm definitely not gonna ignore ANYTHING. There's too much of a wealth of knowledge here. Lol

I'm glad you're one to learn, and good for you! Certainly a rare breed when everyone looks for quick fixes by means of equipment "upgrade".

Firstly, what grip are you using? Certain grips make it harder to impart spin, but not impossible. Western-ish grips have an easier time to impart spin because of the contact point and swing path. Eastern-ish grips have a harder time to impart spin, but not impossible.

Secondly, spin can come down to faith you have in yourself. You really have swing faster, if you're hesitant on the stroke, chances are it'll fly out. So don't be afraid, and swing out. You have to believe the brush and the subsequent spin will keep the ball in the court.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:11 PM
just play more, it will eventually go in, it's not the racket, we all went through this phase

Yeah I don't want to blame the racket or strings. Maybe I'm just scapegoating when I do...except for when the string is dead of course. I SHOULD be able to use anything at this stage in my game. Except maybe anything under 95 sq in

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:17 PM
I'm glad you're one to learn, and good for you! Certainly a rare breed when everyone looks for quick fixes by means of equipment "upgrade".

Firstly, what grip are you using? Certain grips make it harder to impart spin, but not impossible. Western-ish grips have an easier time to impart spin because of the contact point and swing path. Eastern-ish grips have a harder time to impart spin, but not impossible.

Secondly, spin can come down to faith you have in yourself. You really have swing faster, if you're hesitant on the stroke, chances are it'll fly out. So don't be afraid, and swing out. You have to believe the brush and the subsequent spin will keep the ball in the court.

I have a SW forehand grip. I play with a lot of people under the 3.5 level so usually I am the one hitting all the powerful shots. That being said, I do force errors because of that.

When I hit my FH, I try to use the same swing on every shot. I want it to be a modern windshield wiper shot, but I feel that it's a mix of classic full round swing as well. It feels awkward but idk how to change it. I'm also not in a good place to take lessons. Too expensive. I am all self-taught since HS and play recreationally

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:18 PM
And I'm not gonna lie, I thought for a long time and sometimes still think that my equipment is holding me back. But I want to be enlightened lol

lynnbart
10-28-2012, 04:25 PM
We play with 2 PD's and a PDR. Strings can tame it some but good technique is the key... My son has spent a little time at an academy and it was full of PD's and APD's with the kids blasting away.

Trust the swing and play...!

sundaypunch
10-28-2012, 04:30 PM
I have the same problem as you. Unfortunately, as others have said, it's not the fault of the racquet. You just need to develop more consistency. This will come with hitting thousands and thousands of balls. A powerful racquet will magnify your inconsistency. Topspin will give you more margin for error but it isn't going to solve all of your problems.

If you think about it, there are a huge number of things that you have to control to hit a shot where you want it - swing speed, swing path, racquet face angle, contact point, etc. You will gain more control of these as you play more.

2ManyAces
10-28-2012, 04:35 PM
you could just close the racquet face a bit more, thus causing you to swing up more, thus causing you to hit topspin, thus causing you to harness power.

Chotobaka
10-28-2012, 04:36 PM
It seems like I add some spin. My slice is great. I know that much. But my topspin is probably average. Maybe I hit too flat? It seems like I hit with too much spin sometimes though. You know, when the ball just dives into the net?

Not enough racquet head speed. Assuming the rest of your swing path is OK and a SW or FW results in netting the ball, either get faster or adjust your grip.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:39 PM
I just am so constricted right now to play. I don't have the money to pay for a club membership and I live in Michigan, which only has about 4 months of good hitting time. I can see myself moving in the future.

The sad thing is that everyone around here knows that I am about the most avid tennis player in the area. I am at the courts more often than anyone else. And I am still not that good lol.

I have been thinking lately that I need something that I can build on as I get better. Power level, idk. Head size, idk. Weight, idk! I am so lost and I don't know what I like. All I know is I like my string bed to be as predictable as possible. Then I know for sure that it was my fault, even though it is always my fault.

God I love this game. I wish it was a tad but easier for me though lol. I want to play college tennis sooooo bad.

Say Chi Sin Lo
10-28-2012, 04:41 PM
I have a SW forehand grip. I play with a lot of people under the 3.5 level so usually I am the one hitting all the powerful shots. That being said, I do force errors because of that.

When I hit my FH, I try to use the same swing on every shot. I want it to be a modern windshield wiper shot, but I feel that it's a mix of classic full round swing as well. It feels awkward but idk how to change it. I'm also not in a good place to take lessons. Too expensive. I am all self-taught since HS and play recreationally

SW grip should have easy access to both topspin and flatness. Also, seeking consistency in the form of have the same swing on every shot can be a double edged sword. Yes, it's good that you want to have the same swing. But at the same time, you really can't and have to change your contact point, swing path, and etc. based on what the opponent gives you, where you are on the court, and what you intend to do with your shot.

When you're in a better place financially, I strongly advise you to take lessons.

And I'm not gonna lie, I thought for a long time and sometimes still think that my equipment is holding me back. But I want to be enlightened lol

Equipment CAN hold you back in the notion that, modern day racquet with their size, power, and easy access to spin can hold you back by making the game "too easy". My advice is, pick the most difficult racquet for yourself, practice with it, and force yourself to focus on good technique, timing, and in the case of using a heavy racquet, fitness to some degree.

lynnbart
10-28-2012, 04:46 PM
Are there any "hitting groups" around you ? My son has taken some lessons and will still take one for adjustments but has since been invited to a hitting group, He has progressed so fast since joining and is able to learn from a pro about how to play the game. Cost is much less and he gets to play with others as good or better.

I'd sure ask around...

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 04:48 PM
Are there any "hitting groups" around you ? My son has taken some lessons and will still take one for adjustments but has since been invited to a hitting group, He has progressed so fast since joining and is able to learn from a pro about how to play the game. Cost is much less and he gets to play with others as good or better.

I'd sure ask around...

That sounds awesome!

I think there's actually a class I can take at my community college now that I think about it...it's $400 a semester. Might be worth it

Ramon
10-28-2012, 04:48 PM
You're not the only one who can't handle a widebody racquet. Why do you think they call the lower powered racquets "player's" racquets? Most people with fast swings can play decently with a Pure Drive, but they play better with a Pure Storm because more balls go in and they can relax and swing away. The top 3 players in the world right now are all playing with player's spec racquets. They certainly have the ability to play with a Pure Drive, but they play better with Pro Staffs and Radicals.

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-28-2012, 05:02 PM
the easy answer is just come up the back of the ball more and swing harder.

however, that said, I don't really enjoy playing with PDs and the like becasue I am always conscious of having to keep the ball in play with a deliberate amount of spin, I don't really feel like I can just let rip..

datsveryinterestin
10-28-2012, 05:05 PM
hrmm.... i have thought about this a little bit myself. i was thinking about changing to a different racquet because i was losing matches by hitting out too much. i currently use a BLX Pro Open. i demoed a bunch of racquets and if I do change, i would go to a Head IG Speed.
the thing is, you are right. "pure drive style" racquets are very powerful.. and the singles court in tennis is not that big. especially when hitting an inside out angled forehand for an attempted clean winner, there just isn't a lot of room.
i still might switch, but i recently played well and when you play well with these racquets it is a lot of fun!
i think it is important with any racquet but i would say
STRING TYPE and
STRING TENSION
are extemely important with these powerful racquets.
i would recommend a poly string (textured and twisted probably) and tension is personal but something that gives you feel for the ball on your strings.
the other thing that i think is probably most important with powerful racquets
is
SWING SPEED
you have to "go for it" and accelerate through the ball and not be hesitant or else you won't get the topspin necessary to keep the ball in the court.
i added 10gr of lead to my racquet at 12pm which adds a lot to the swing weight, but when i swing aggressively i think it adds momentum and creates a heavier ball. i dunno, maybe it just slows my swing down and just makes my swing smoother... but i like to think it creates a heavy ball.
anyway, if you just can't control it with a powerful racquet no matter what you try, don't feel bad... just try a racquet with 18x20 string pattern or with more flex or both.
....
or just play DOUBLES!!!! :)

UCSF2012
10-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Women need more power. Men need more finesse. Stop searching for power. Look for angles and spin.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 05:24 PM
Hey, I have a pro open too! Lol.

I play both doubles and singles, but mostly singles.

I've been thinking that maybe a racket with low SW and decent power will help me out, but I'm afraid of the power level. Its all in my head maybe?

corners
10-28-2012, 05:26 PM
Yeah I don't want to blame the racket or strings. Maybe I'm just scapegoating when I do...except for when the string is dead of course. I SHOULD be able to use anything at this stage in my game. Except maybe anything under 95 sq in

Racquets are all roughly the same in terms of "power". Your pure drive gives you 2-3 extra miles per hour over the least powerful frame on the market with a similar swingweight, tops. That's not enough extra speed to send balls into the fence. "Powerful" racquets tend to have more open string patterns, which can produce problems with control. But those problems are not related to power, as such. As others mentioned, you need to add more spin, which is what the open patterns of the Pure Drive and that ilk are for. Many people on these boards don't like open patterns because they hit rather flat. These guys don't use the spin potential of the open pattern and therefore the inherent slight control loss that an open pattern produces makes such frames a losing proposition for them.

You also didn't mention your strings. What are you using? The wrong string at the wrong tension in a Pure Drive exacerbates the control issues.

But I agree with other posters. Unless you're swinging 80 miles an hour on your forehand, you should be able to control that racquet with just about any string, as long as you know what you're doing. You need to get better to avoid hitting the ball long. Tennis isn't easy.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Haha yeah I know it's not easy. It likely wouldn't be fun if it was! And I typically use multis because I'm skeptical about poly. Idk if its a good idea for me to use it. Hopefully I get a machine for Xmas though so I can try stuff out :)

Interesting point on the power levels...didn't know that.

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-28-2012, 05:36 PM
Tennis isn't easy.

see sig :)

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 05:43 PM
see sig :)

Hahaha. How coincidental

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-28-2012, 06:12 PM
hardly, i have adopted it!

sundaypunch
10-28-2012, 06:15 PM
the easy answer is just come up the back of the ball more and swing harder.

however, that said, I don't really enjoy playing with PDs and the like becasue I am always conscious of having to keep the ball in play with a deliberate amount of spin, I don't really feel like I can just let rip..

That's the easy answer if you have developed the skill to make it work.

corners
10-28-2012, 06:27 PM
see sig :)

The elusive obvious :)

tlm
10-28-2012, 06:31 PM
So many power racket users...why can't I contain the power of a pure drive or aeropro? It truly bugs me. I'm wondering if it is timing, form, or if I just plain hit the way it WASN'T meant to be hit?

Can someone maybe explain to me why this is? Maybe I will post a video of me hitting in the near future.

I used to use one but I had the same problem as you are having, these rackets are rocket launchers thats all there is to it. I use a lot of top spin but still if I am off just a little the ball goes long, just look for something else that has more control.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 06:32 PM
So does anyone have a racket in mind that looks cool and will let me have fun? Lol

tlm
10-28-2012, 06:34 PM
Racquets are all roughly the same in terms of "power". Your pure drive gives you 2-3 extra miles per hour over the least powerful frame on the market with a similar swingweight, tops. That's not enough extra speed to send balls into the fence. "Powerful" racquets tend to have more open string patterns, which can produce problems with control. But those problems are not related to power, as such. As others mentioned, you need to add more spin, which is what the open patterns of the Pure Drive and that ilk are for. Many people on these boards don't like open patterns because they hit rather flat. These guys don't use the spin potential of the open pattern and therefore the inherent slight control loss that an open pattern produces makes such frames a losing proposition for them.

You also didn't mention your strings. What are you using? The wrong string at the wrong tension in a Pure Drive exacerbates the control issues.

But I agree with other posters. Unless you're swinging 80 miles an hour on your forehand, you should be able to control that racquet with just about any string, as long as you know what you're doing. You need to get better to avoid hitting the ball long. Tennis isn't easy.

Sorry but there is no way that all rackets are roughly the same in power. And I don't want to hear about some lab tests that can never match what a player feels and experiences.

tlm
10-28-2012, 06:36 PM
You're not the only one who can't handle a widebody racquet. Why do you think they call the lower powered racquets "player's" racquets? Most people with fast swings can play decently with a Pure Drive, but they play better with a Pure Storm because more balls go in and they can relax and swing away. The top 3 players in the world right now are all playing with player's spec racquets. They certainly have the ability to play with a Pure Drive, but they play better with Pro Staffs and Radicals.

Exactly right.

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-28-2012, 06:40 PM
So does anyone have a racket in mind that looks cool and will let me have fun? Lol

what about a Wilson BLX Pro Open?

oh, wait... :)

HEADfamilydynasty
10-28-2012, 06:48 PM
I used to use one but I had the same problem as you are having, these rackets are rocket launchers thats all there is to it. I use a lot of top spin but still if I am off just a little the ball goes long, just look for something else that has more control.

A pure drive-like racket in the right hands is a monster of a stick. My teammate uses one, to my competitive annoyance, with excellence. He hits balls that curves in the air to the right then dive bombs for the concrete. On the other Hand, i was observing a tennis lesson on the other court or a few weeks and two of the kids used a PD. One of them could not keep an ball in to save his life. It wasn't because he couldn't play either. He brought out another racket, a PS BLX 95, and he was beast. the other kid was struggling on balls hit out of position. Bottom line is: it depends
on you, your style of play, your method of hitting, your swing, your preferences and other various variables too numerous to list:lol:.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 06:49 PM
what about a Wilson BLX Pro Open?

oh, wait... :)

Haha I like this racket. Just want something new! And that won't break the bank. Less that $160

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-28-2012, 06:52 PM
Haha I like this racket. Just want something new! And that won't break the bank. Less that $160

looks like you have headed down the path of no return.

take yourself to the Diary of a Racketholic thread and abandon all hope.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 06:55 PM
Lmao. I know...at least I'm not addicted to crack. Rackets are much better!

tlm
10-28-2012, 07:01 PM
A pure drive-like racket in the right hands is a monster of a stick. My teammate uses one, to my competitive annoyance, with excellence. He hits balls that curves in the air to the right then dive bombs for the concrete. On the other Hand, i was observing a tennis lesson on the other court or a few weeks and two of the kids used a PD. One of them could not keep an ball in to save his life. It wasn't because he couldn't play either. He brought out another racket, a PS BLX 95, and he was beast. the other kid was struggling on balls hit out of position. Bottom line is: it depends
on you, your style of play, your method of hitting, your swing, your preferences and other various variables too numerous to list:lol:.

I agree with you I can almost use one myself, I love the nasty top spin and kick it can give you. But in match conditions I will hit to many errors to make up for the points that I receive from the nasty spin.

lynnbart
10-28-2012, 07:02 PM
If you are using a multi, you will probably notice a difference with a poly hybrid.

We are using Discho Black Iontec mains and Prince Syn Gut Original in the crosses. It is extremely cost effective, comfortable, and the playability is excellent. Much more controllable than a full multi...

Discho Black Iontec is an excellent poly to start out with....

El Zed
10-28-2012, 07:07 PM
I believe others have touched upon it, but grip type is highly important. I'll speak in terms of the APDGT, but - for me- the racquet transformed once I committed to using a full western grip (of course coupled with a heavy topspin, wind-shield wiper stroke). Trying to implement a more a traditional stroke, with a more standard grip (I previously was a semi-western guy) with this racquet lead to some disappointment and frustration in the perception that racquets have not improved since the Head Prestige (600) era. They have - you just have to utilize the equipment correct. And yes, I feel I generate more pace with the APDGT in this manner than hitting flat with the venerated PC600 or PT280/630.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 07:14 PM
I love how the apdgt looks and feels. Maybe I should buy a used one and put a hybrid in it? Are discho Iontec strings good then?

prjacobs
10-28-2012, 07:21 PM
One possible way to harness the power might be to try a more compact backswing. You cannot swing these frame like old school sticks. Shortening the backswing may allow you to swing through the ball with your usual speed.

El Zed
10-28-2012, 07:36 PM
I love how the apdgt looks and feels. Maybe I should buy a used one and put a hybrid in it? Are discho Iontec strings good then?

I would be careful about buying a used APDGT (from anyone other than TW); perhaps you are a bit safer with the Cortex (doubt it) but more likely the original (which I believe many people prefer - as do I). With TW, at least you have 30 days to see if you like the racquet, which should be ample time to see if you like the racquet and if its structurally fine.

I've tried the APD (GT and Original) with a variety of strings. My preferred combo is effectively their hybrid blend of VS 16 and RPM Blast 17 - great spin, power and good control. If you go this route, however, I recommend getting a full set of the RPM Blast and VS Tonic (should be marginally more expensive, but you'll get two sets to hybrid with) - Tonic is, for all intents and purposes, just as good as the regular VS (aside from some cosmetics, which frankly is irrelevant to me). I also liked a full set of Dunlop Black Widows - a very soft co-poly that rivals many multis in softness. Great spin, good control and adequate power. The feel is somewhat lacking compared to the hybrid and to some other multis, however. My least preferred was the Prince Premier 16 and the Head RIP Control multis. Good, comfortable strings - but the spin is relatively uninspired compared to the aforementioned.

Finally, I highly recommend filling the handle with Blu Tack. After removing the grip and replacing with two VS overgrips, this Blu Tack is sufficient to offset the addition of about 10 grams of lead at 12:00 - which ultimately satisfies the "Rafa" specs posted throughout. Is it heavy, yes, compared to stock - but not anymore difficult to wield than a Prestige or Pro Tour. What the Blu Tack further provides is sublime feel - no vibration, but with sufficient feedback (without the use of a string dampener). To me, it has the comfort of the venerated Fischer Vacuum 90 and is better than the aforementioned Prestiges/Pro Tours.

Sorry of this doesn't make sense - frame of thought posting without proofing.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 07:42 PM
I am considering getting the extended from TW because I actually like extended rackets. What is Blu tak? It sounds amazing

El Zed
10-28-2012, 07:49 PM
I am considering getting the extended from TW because I actually like extended rackets. What is Blu tak? It sounds amazing

It a silly-putty type of material; prefer it to silicone as it doesn't ruin your racquet (i.e. it's very easy to remove). Can't over emphasize how effective its been (can be purchased from Amazon).

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 07:55 PM
If it gets rid of vibration I'm all for it. Also will bring down the sw of the extended apdgt. This sounds pretty cool.

Larrysümmers
10-28-2012, 07:55 PM
i like the pdr+ because i have a short take back and fast swing. this gives me a ton of spin and power.
if you try too hard and try to get fancy with unleashing crazy power then you will fail.

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 07:55 PM
Freaking tigers!

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 07:56 PM
i like the pdr+ because i have a short take back and fast swing. this gives me a ton of spin and power.
if you try too hard and try to get fancy with unleashing crazy power then you will fail.

I believe this is what I have been doing wrong

kimguroo
10-28-2012, 08:04 PM
So does anyone have a racket in mind that looks cool and will let me have fun? Lol

Prince TT bandit OS ^_^
Cheap and very nice OS racket haha.

Larrysümmers
10-28-2012, 08:06 PM
see these rackets are assault rifles compared to the silent pistol of the players frames. you've got plenty of power, all you have to do is aim. its not going to make you go from 3.5 to 4.0. but it makes your life easier.
and dont be scared off by people saying these rackets arent good at net, because that's crap too. i can volley better compared to my prestige because it is more maneuverable and so much bigger in head size. At net is where tweeners really shine imo

MikeHitsHard93
10-28-2012, 08:09 PM
see these rackets are assault rifles compared to the silent pistol of the players frames. you've got plenty of power, all you have to do is aim. its not going to make you go from 3.5 to 4.0. but it makes your life easier.
and dont be scared off by people saying these rackets arent good at net, because that's crap too. i can volley better compared to my prestige because it is more maneuverable and so much bigger in head size. At net is where tweeners really shine imo

Do you use the new pdr?

Cheetah
10-28-2012, 08:10 PM
your racquet doesn't have a lot of control. it has a lot of spin. most players under 4.5 don't have great control with that racquet. yes they can spin it in and have a heavy ball but not very accurate. ask them to hit a target with a decent pace and they'll never do it. you need very good technique to tame that stick properly. get a racquet w/ more control. you can swing harder with something that has more control.
Yonex!

Larrysümmers
10-28-2012, 08:17 PM
Do you use the new pdr?

when i hit with a friend who has a couple extra lol.

i also use the npro open quite a bit. yeah, these rackets do give you a lot of spin, but spin is the name of the game. you control the spin, you control the power.

Circa 1762
10-28-2012, 08:30 PM
If it gets rid of vibration I'm all for it. Also will bring down the sw of the extended apdgt. This sounds pretty cool.

Be careful. Adding weight in the handle may increase perceived maneuverability by making the racket more head light, but it won't decrease swingweight. You can never decrease SW by adding weight.

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-28-2012, 08:49 PM
One possible way to harness the power might be to try a more compact backswing. You cannot swing these frame like old school sticks. Shortening the backswing may allow you to swing through the ball with your usual speed.

no offense, but this is horrible advice.

have a look in Tips and Instruction for an abundance of ways to ensure you can swing as hard as you like. or have a look at FYB.

prjacobs
10-28-2012, 10:05 PM
no offense, but this is horrible advice.

have a look in Tips and Instruction for an abundance of ways to ensure you can swing as hard as you like. or have a look at FYB.

None taken :) . For what it's worth, I've had a lot of coaching from some of the finest coaches in the US. There are many ways to play the game and while a more compact backswing may not be right for you, there is a whole school of playing that espouses a compact swing.

KenC
10-28-2012, 10:58 PM
It seems many who really like the PD and it's clones end up putting a low powered poly string in that helps generate a lot of spin and then up the tension. In this way a low powered poly tames a powerful frame and adds back the missing control. The only thing is this combo can really wreck an elbow and/or shoulder. The better way is to get a lower powered control oriented racquet and then use multi strings or even gut to give it back some power.

A lot of people start out with the Pure Drive and later end up with the Pure Storm Tour. With proper technique you will be able to hit a heavier ball with the PST than the PD and control it much better.

TimothyO
10-29-2012, 04:43 AM
It seems many who really like the PD and it's clones end up putting a low powered poly string in that helps generate a lot of spin and then up the tension. In this way a low powered poly tames a powerful frame and adds back the missing control. The only thing is this combo can really wreck an elbow and/or shoulder. The better way is to get a lower powered control oriented racquet and then use multi strings or even gut to give it back some power.

A lot of people start out with the Pure Drive and later end up with the Pure Storm Tour. With proper technique you will be able to hit a heavier ball with the PST than the PD and control it much better.

Ken is correct and this is really about two approaches to tennis hardware and how it interacts with technique.

Let's assume you want to hit with a ton of topspin and make that process as forgiving as possible with respect to hardware.

You need a large head (forgiving target area), open pattern (greater spin potential), and light weight (higher RHS). For stability such frames generally need to be more HH and stiffer. Then to tame the power and, more importantly, provide control with such a large, open pattern stringbed you need to stiffen the stringbed with stiff poly strings which also happen to slide well and boost spin potential. Result: a fast, maneuverable, forgiving frame designed to maximize spin but whichis also stiff and can cause lots of unwanted shock and vibration.

The other approach is old school: smaller head and its naturally denser stringbed (loads of control) and heavier, softer frame (lots of stability and comfort). But the smaller head and heavier frame is both less forgiving and slower making spin more difficult relative to the approach above (more difficult, not impossible!). Here one can use softer strings such as gut or soft multis for welcome power and comfort without losing control. And low frcition gut/poly hybrids make these denser patterns even more spon friendly.

So I believe the key is focus. The more "modern approach" is focused on spin at the cost of comfort in order to maintain control. The old school approach is focused on control with comfort as a natural byproduct but at the cost of spin potential. Both approaches use strings to push towards its opposite in order to enhance its natural advantages while mitigating its natural disadvantages.

Sreeram
10-29-2012, 06:41 AM
So many power racket users...why can't I contain the power of a pure drive or aeropro? It truly bugs me. I'm wondering if it is timing, form, or if I just plain hit the way it WASN'T meant to be hit?

Can someone maybe explain to me why this is? Maybe I will post a video of me hitting in the near future.

I really wonder why many people leave a racquet just because it is little too powerful etc. Such comments always baffles me. I am currently playing IG Radical Pro and It is very powerful compared to my previous racquets. I never had any problem with it. On the other hand I have problem with low powered racquets like Prokennex Redendo though I like their feel. Ideally we should prefer racquets that are powerful and comfortable to us. If one has decent swing path to generate spin then power should be controllable. The most powerful racquet I recently playtested was Formula 100 but even here I did not have any problem keeping the ball in play. I just brushed the ball more to generate more spin.

To the OP i would suggest to work on getting more brushing action on the ball before increasing the swing speed. If you are a flat hitting (with lesser brushing) then increasing the speed of your swing will increase more Unforced Errors.

Larrysümmers
10-29-2012, 08:54 AM
also mike dont get sucked into this 'players' racket and tweener thing. using a players racket doesnt mean youre a good player, and using a tweener doesnt mean you suck. all the good players i know use tweeners, its all about what works for you.

also you dont need to use polys. i hit for a while with the apdc strung with tournament nylon, and i was getting great spin. also with the pdr+s they are with nxt 16 at like 60 lbs, you still get great spin. and they last longer than 8 hours.

JohnB
10-29-2012, 08:59 AM
So many power racket users...why can't I contain the power of a pure drive or aeropro? It truly bugs me. I'm wondering if it is timing, form, or if I just plain hit the way it WASN'T meant to be hit?

Can someone maybe explain to me why this is? Maybe I will post a video of me hitting in the near future.

It would be a good idea to video yourself. Maybe some of us can help. If I may take a guess, chances are you are swinging to much with the arm, instead of swinging from the ground up by using your body as a kinetic chain.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 10:06 AM
Maybe most of the power racket users, besides being more experienced, are SMALLER than you?
Dr.Ivo
Isner
Querrey
DelPo
Berdyck
Soderling
Raonic
How many are using stiff big racktets?

Darkhors
10-29-2012, 10:24 AM
Mike, where abouts in Michigan are you? I'm there too and depending on where you are, I can recommend a few places to get some good hitting in at reasonable prices. Plus, there are some places that have mixers and such for relatively cheap as well as some doubles and singles leagues.

PM me if you want.

DH

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 11:05 AM
I am not far from Lansing. I work there and go to school at LCC.

LeeD, would that really have something to do with it? Maybe I hit out to lo much?

El Zed
10-29-2012, 11:17 AM
I am not far from Lansing. I work there and go to school at LCC.

LeeD, would that really have something to do with it? Maybe I hit out to lo much?

Doubtful - Nadal, Tsonga, Roddick aren't exactly small guys. Technique is the key to power racquets - whether it be in terms of grip, stroke or the angle you keep the racquet head at impact. Much like "player's frames" require practice in generating power - power racquets require practice in developing accuracy (usually through the use of spin).

Muppet
10-29-2012, 11:35 AM
If I understand correctly, it sounds like you are trying to use control oriented racquet technique with a tweener. I think to grow into your PD, and to a less extent your Pro Open, you need to let the racquet do the heavy lifting for you. Start by swinging the PD up to meet the ball and continue through the ball with a full follow through. You don't need to exert yourself so much. If that is working well, you can start adding some topspin. Again, this shouldn't require much effort.

If you like to make an effort, get a control oriented type racquet and continue grinding!

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 12:07 PM
I don't own a pd (used to have a Pdr but sold it). But yeah I like to hit out. Maybe a tweeter just doesn't fit my stroke style. I hit more through the ball rather than up it.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Guys.
I think Mike here is 6'4" and 215 lbs or so.
He's bigger than you and me.
Pros that size get money for using a racket that might not be suitable for them, and might not be the actual racket you think it is.
Amateurs that big don't need more power, they need to hit some balls IN the court.
Even a PureDriveExtended CAN work, but it needs full W grip and tons of spin. Player balances spin with ball speed when he get's more experience.
The other thing is, if Mike hits the ball within 1' of the netcord, it will go IN more often than not, between the sidelines.

TennisMD
10-29-2012, 02:35 PM
Guys.
I think Mike here is 6'4" and 215 lbs or so.
He's bigger than you and me.
Pros that size get money for using a racket that might not be suitable for them, and might not be the actual racket you think it is.
Amateurs that big don't need more power, they need to hit some balls IN the court.
Even a PureDriveExtended CAN work, but it needs full W grip and tons of spin. Player balances spin with ball speed when he get's more experience.
The other thing is, if Mike hits the ball within 1' of the netcord, it will go IN more often than not, between the sidelines.

Exactly as quoted in the last sentence, Vic Braden an old time instructor had a book quick fixes which I read when first playing the game( early 90s) and to hit a ball out ,flat line drive, going the
full length of the court is almost impossible. So obviously a technique issue, when attempting top spin probably catching the ball with rkt in an upward trajectory which would allow a90 lb weakling to sail the ball out. Use the imagery of your palm brushing up the back of the ball, provided your grip is eastern to semi western ,obviously it cannot be an extreme brush up( unless you have Nadal skills) or it will land short

LeeD
10-29-2012, 02:49 PM
A huge mistake 3-3.5 players make is to forget the height of the ball they hit and the POSTURE they used to hit it.
As said, nobody can rip a ball too long if the ball clears the net by 2', baseline to baseline. Of course, when you step inside the court, you can, or I can also.
So, don't hit the darn ball 4' higher than the net!
Typical 3-3.5 hits the ball 6' higher than the net, sees the ball goes LONG, and then tells himself to hit SOFTER so the next ball stays in.
That is incorrect thinking...incorrect if the player wants to improve. Instead, he should be aware his shot is just too high to drop in, so aim lower!
But big 3.5's like Mike here should add lots of topspin, find the medium between spin and depth, and swing out on all his shots, so he moves up to 4.0.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 02:52 PM
Guys.
I think Mike here is 6'4" and 215 lbs or so.
He's bigger than you and me.
Pros that size get money for using a racket that might not be suitable for them, and might not be the actual racket you think it is.
Amateurs that big don't need more power, they need to hit some balls IN the court.
Even a PureDriveExtended CAN work, but it needs full W grip and tons of spin. Player balances spin with ball speed when he get's more experience.
The other thing is, if Mike hits the ball within 1' of the netcord, it will go IN more often than not, between the sidelines.

With all due respect, your post is flawed. First, you really think world-class athletes (one in the realm of discussion of best ever) would jeopardize their career by playing with inappropriate equipment for the sake of an endorsement deal? Feasible, but highly unlikely. To this end, there is no debate that Nadal uses the original APD, Tsonga a APDGT+, and Roddick the Pure Drive. The antiquated concept of power racquets being for weaklings is just that, antiquated. Mike (who is admittedly a traditional stoke player) simply needs to adjust his mechanics to suit the racquet. Is it possible to do so, of course, but the question of its worth is one only he can answer. If he does, however, he will have more pace and spin on his shots than most (if not all) players' racquets.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 02:55 PM
You prolly forgot to read my last two sentences, but that's OK.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 03:03 PM
You prolly forgot to read my last two sentences, but that's OK.

No, I read your last two sentences and my post remains in full. Your post is conflicted and is not salvaged by your final two sentences. "Power racquets" work even if not utilizing clearance of only 1 inch. Further, your description of how a PD+ can "even work" is applicable not only to him (and other tall players) but to everyone - if you don't use a full western grip with heavy top spin, these racquets are not being used to their full potential - full stop, regardless if you're 5'5 or 6'5.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 03:09 PM
?? What are you trying to say?
Mike already tried the PD's, didn't like them, and is looking at something lower 60's in stiffness, around 11 oz., he said so.
I'm agreeing with his decision, then going on record to say PD's CAN work for anyone, but they need to make adjustments, if they hit too flat, which we know Mike does.
Mike now uses SW forehand grip. He hits too flat. He said so. So easy cure is more W, more topspin, less ball speed, which he already has in spades.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 03:21 PM
?? What are you trying to say?
Mike already tried the PD's, didn't like them, and is looking at something lower 60's in stiffness, around 11 oz., he said so.
I'm agreeing with his decision, then going on record to say PD's CAN work for anyone, but they need to make adjustments, if they hit too flat, which we know Mike does.
Mike now uses SW forehand grip. He hits too flat. He said so. So easy cure is more W, more topspin, less ball speed, which he already has in spades.

"What are you trying to say" - evidently you're not comprehending the obvious, so let me simplify things for you: you made a few absurd points, and I responded to those points directly. I stress absurd, since the concept that certain racquets are not appropriate for people on the basis of their height weight is ridiculous. Further your "point" about the pros misusing racquets for the sake of endorsements, etc. is equally nonsensical. I'm glad you finally corrected your position in that the PD/APD/Etc. can be effectively used if proper technique is implemented - a point that I made pages ago.

You're making contradictory points premised upon nonsensical ideas - I suggest you move on before offering additional bad advice.

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 03:40 PM
Why do so many women use the pure drive then?...

LeeD
10-29-2012, 03:43 PM
I wonder if there are TWO Torres's here on the forums?
PD's offer easy power, come extended lengths, for the reach challenged players and those without big power.
Shouldn't all posts be read in it's entirety before a comment is made, rather than dissecting a post into several separate parts, then addressed individually?
Now try to figure that out:):)

prjacobs
10-29-2012, 03:45 PM
A huge mistake 3-3.5 players make is to forget the height of the ball they hit and the POSTURE they used to hit it.
As said, nobody can rip a ball too long if the ball clears the net by 2', baseline to baseline. Of course, when you step inside the court, you can, or I can also.
So, don't hit the darn ball 4' higher than the net!
Typical 3-3.5 hits the ball 6' higher than the net, sees the ball goes LONG, and then tells himself to hit SOFTER so the next ball stays in.
That is incorrect thinking...incorrect if the player wants to improve. Instead, he should be aware his shot is just too high to drop in, so aim lower!
But big 3.5's like Mike here should add lots of topspin, find the medium between spin and depth, and swing out on all his shots, so he moves up to 4.0.

Lee, you've had many thoughtful posts, but I respectfully have to disagree with this one. I don't know where you get this info about 3 - 3.5 players only clearing the net by 6" but that is a recipe for disaster and one reason why they aren't rated higher :) . You cannot play consistent tennis aiming that low and telling Mike to aim lower is, in my opinion, not going to help him develop topspin. First of all, power at his level is overrated. Depth and consistency wins most points. If Mike isn't getting enough topspin, his mechanics are wrong.

Mike, @ 6'4" maybe you're just not dropping the head of your racquet below the ball when you hit. The lower below the ball your shot starts, the better chance you have developing topspin. Not to say that this is the only way to generate topspin, but it's the classic way. Also try to close your racquet face a bit. See of those two elements help. Aim 1 - 2 feet above the net. Even Soderling and Berdich, pros with comparatively flat shots, clear the net by 2' with their shots and they hit a lot harder than any of us.
That's my two cents....

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 03:49 PM
Nah man I'm 5'11" leed just confused me with somebody else for a second is all lol. I would say my topspin is adequate, but I also hit through the ball a lot more than up it. I don't have a windshield wiper. I use a full cut.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 03:55 PM
I wonder if there are TWO Torres's here on the forums?
PD's offer easy power, come extended lengths, for the reach challenged players and those without big power.
Shouldn't all posts be read in it's entirety before a comment is made, rather than dissecting a post into several separate parts, then addressed individually?
Now try to figure that out:):)

You're hopeless - yes, Tsonga is reach challenged and/or without big power. Before you try to draw distinctions, the PD and APD are more similar than not and I am confident that my point holds.

As to your latter point, perhaps but not in your case. Your previous points clearly set forth the premise that "power" racquets aren't for big guys and you sought to support it in the post that I responded to. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but you are passing bad information/advice to someone who is legitimately looking for help. Do him a service rather than pushing the old "players" racquets are better drivel.

To Mike, flat out, if you wish to adjust your style and can maintain/improve your accuracy (and are not stuck in the "feel" of a racquet made when Reagan or Clinton were president - while remembering the point I made about Blu Tack) , some of these tweeners (especially the APDGT) will give you more pace and movement than a traditional players stick. I understand that this may be asking a lot, but the benefits are there.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 04:01 PM
I see the discrepancy here.
There are winner attempts, hit fast, swung fast, hit flat.
There are RALLY BALLS, slower moving, usually well topspun, balls to continue the rally.
Rally balls should be aimed 4-6' above the net.
Winner attempts should be hit lower than 2' above the net.
I just got back from playing macho (:shock::)) for fun tennis at the RoseGarden. We were slugging the ball, mostly fast flats with a little topspin, to drive the old farts off the court. Old farts don't handle 80 mph forehands hit a foot above the net, landing right at the baseline. They, for some reason, keep infesting our courts (the courts where we're trying to play good tennis, not push balls with skirts on them).
One of my opponent's and I decided to just let fly. Our shots actually went IN about the same percentage, but with much more pace. Lots of service returns were hit less than 2' above the net, landing within 3' of the baseline.
Those were not meant to be rally balls, but were meant to be winner attempts.
We'll see how our strategy worked later in the week. For some reason, it seems the old farts are lining up to lose almost every point against us. Just don't understand the thinking.

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 04:04 PM
I will definitely consider your points when choosing my new racket in the new future. Thank you for your contributions :) I think I may end up going to one of these sticks once I get my timing and stroke a little more consistent.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-29-2012, 04:12 PM
It seems like I add some spin. My slice is great. I know that much. But my topspin is probably average. Maybe I hit too flat? It seems like I hit with too much spin sometimes though. You know, when the ball just dives into the net?

There are so many different things you can do.

Pros - usually use a crapton of spin, add weight to the racket, string with poly, string at high tensions
WTA - string with poly sometimes, string at high tensions
High level players - use a lot of spin, add a little weight, string with poly, string at higher tensions

Out of personal experience
1 friend controlled his shots using some spin and very good technique. (prob mid 50s to low 60s)
Another just uses laser-like precision and great technique to hit a combination of ridiculous laser flat shots, unbouncing slices, and solid topspins. (prob strings low 50s)
Another friend just raises his tension and hits with a lot of spin. (strings low to mid 60s, uses multis because he hates polys)

All of these guys have solid technique.

And just because the ball dove into the net doesn't necessarily mean you hit with too much spin. It could've been a mishit, or it could've been that you got forced back and couldn't hit through your ball enough to get it to go deep enough to pass the net. I'm leaning on mishit, because the times people legitimately hit with too much spin, they end up hitting it inside the service line, and not into the net. (Or your target could be wrong, since you SHOULD aim well over the net)

The longest lasting fix is technique. Though it's also the hardest to work on.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 04:19 PM
El Zed...
I was specifically answering post 81, is that OK with you?
Why didn't you cite Roddick too?

prjacobs
10-29-2012, 06:29 PM
I see the discrepancy here.
There are winner attempts, hit fast, swung fast, hit flat.
There are RALLY BALLS, slower moving, usually well topspun, balls to continue the rally.
Rally balls should be aimed 4-6' above the net.
Winner attempts should be hit lower than 2' above the net.
I just got back from playing macho (:shock::)) for fun tennis at the RoseGarden. We were slugging the ball, mostly fast flats with a little topspin, to drive the old farts off the court. Old farts don't handle 80 mph forehands hit a foot above the net, landing right at the baseline. They, for some reason, keep infesting our courts (the courts where we're trying to play good tennis, not push balls with skirts on them).
One of my opponent's and I decided to just let fly. Our shots actually went IN about the same percentage, but with much more pace. Lots of service returns were hit less than 2' above the net, landing within 3' of the baseline.
Those were not meant to be rally balls, but were meant to be winner attempts.
We'll see how our strategy worked later in the week. For some reason, it seems the old farts are lining up to lose almost every point against us. Just don't understand the thinking.

Lee, I don't know if you've seen Spinal Tap, but I just had a Stonehenge moment. I mistook feet for inches.... Sorry.... Must be the hurricane in NY.

Hi I'm Ray
10-29-2012, 06:34 PM
nevermind. 10char

El Zed
10-29-2012, 07:25 PM
El Zed...
I was specifically answering post 81, is that OK with you?
Why didn't you cite Roddick too?

Thanks for making the point further :)

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 07:30 PM
Zed, do you like Dunlop frames?

LeeD
10-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Sure, I can prolly think of a few more big rangy guys, given the time...
Facts can help every argument from BOTH sides.
But still, my answer was directed towards PDR's and why WOMEN seem to like using them.
You can answer with as many examples of MEN you want, but the question is about women, and why they like the PD's.
I'm a weak old guy, love PD's, but like something made better and much lighter in weight...hence DunlopAero500's.
Yes, and cheaper too.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 07:54 PM
Zed, do you like Dunlop frames?

Actually, I do - truly enjoyed the 200 Tour (Bio, but the 4D is purportedly rather similar). It's funny, the original APD leaded up w/ Blu Tack in the handle slightly reminded me of my time with the 200 Tour. Sadly, can't speak about the others.

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 08:00 PM
I am having commitment issues to buying a frame. Have had these issues for months...

I've tried a couple dunlops and they were alright. I want to like one of the 300s because theyre so cheap and look so nice. The 4D 300T was the first racket I ever threw over the fence though...lol.

I don't want to demo anymore. However, I don't know what to buy. I can't just have one racket to rely on. Need something around 11oz... Good all-around. Not too much power. Little to no vibration. LeeD says his rackets have no vibration, so I am wondering if the other Dunlops are like this as well. Idk. Frustration building up.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 08:07 PM
Sure, I can prolly think of a few more big rangy guys, given the time...
Facts can help every argument from BOTH sides.
But still, my answer was directed towards PDR's and why WOMEN seem to like using them.
You can answer with as many examples of MEN you want, but the question is about women, and why they like the PD's.
I'm a weak old guy, love PD's, but like something made better and much lighter in weight...hence DunlopAero500's.
Yes, and cheaper too.

Huh? Not sure I follow you as you have seemingly changed the question. I don't believe the focus was ever on women or their alleged preference for PDs (apologies if I missed it). I read the issue, as you put it, to be that power frames are not best suitable for those with inherent power (i.e. big guys). At least in terms of the Babs, I find that not to be the case. Power Racquet + Proper & Appropriate Form = More Pace and Movement than more traditional sticks; don't really believes that's controversial. For instance, I have a set of old prestige classics (Prestige Pro 600s amongst others to be exact) and pro tours than I've picked and have had some notable time with. Once dialed in, I feel that I have comparable precision with the APDGT than with either of those two older frames. Beyond that, while appreciating that some people truly prize feel above all else, I prefer the APD (original especially) over these frames since I have more pace and movement on my shots. To be certain, however, that is a comparison where I utilized a traditional stroke w/ SW grip (natural gut) on the Heads and a modern (windshield wiper) stroke w/ W grip (natural gut + RPM blast hybrid) on the APD. The Heads truly show their age in comparison, and feel is comparable if not actually slightly better with the APD w/ Blu Tack. To be clear, though, the APD is - to me - a dud when using even a SW grip (and yes, the Heads are a bit more versatile in this regard).

As to build quality, I now have about 5 APDs (originals and GTs) and have no issues with their quality (in terms of fit and finish or otherwise). There is a lot of Bab bashing on this board, and I do feel the need to defend this brand with my positive experiences with them as a result. I'm glad that you are happy with your Dunlop, being content with a racquet is apparently a rare occurrence (especially on here).

LeeD
10-29-2012, 08:08 PM
Now now now, before El Zed jumps on my case again.....
I never said my Dunlops don't vibrate. Hitting a tennis ball with a tree trunk would vibrate, to some extent.
Hitting anything with anything will cause some stress somewhere.
And mishits contribute more to the twist/vibration schemes.
What you are looking for is an acceptable rate of vibration, NOT a complete absence of vibrations.
Vibrations offer feel.
I already mentioned my grip size, which is a contributing factor in this vibration/twist game.
You know I"m only a 4.0, so unlike lots of you guys, I don't face AndyRoddicks serves.
Acceptable is the operative word here.

LeeD
10-29-2012, 08:09 PM
El Zed.
Post 81, that's what I was answering.

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 08:19 PM
What should I do, guys? Eeeny meany miny moe? Flip a damn coin? LOL.

I wish I could just buy whatever and be happy with it. Then I could just base my purchase on how the racket looks.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 08:32 PM
I am having commitment issues to buying a frame. Have had these issues for months...

I've tried a couple dunlops and they were alright. I want to like one of the 300s because theyre so cheap and look so nice. The 4D 300T was the first racket I ever threw over the fence though...lol.

I don't want to demo anymore. However, I don't know what to buy. I can't just have one racket to rely on. Need something around 11oz... Good all-around. Not too much power. Little to no vibration. LeeD says his rackets have no vibration, so I am wondering if the other Dunlops are like this as well. Idk. Frustration building up.

Every time I purchase a new racquet - even after much research - I vow never to come to this site since my head will almost undoubtedly be turned by some other racquet. I, of course, fail to carry through with this, since this board is so much fun.

The Dunlops are nice sticks, but there's something about it that just don't work for me. Perhaps I'm too fickle and easily swayed by marketing, but they don't seem hi-tech enough for me. Again, I have a lot of the old classics (or did at one time) and while they have their charm, they just seem so dated. To this end, I believe in modern tennis - and believe that the spin-game is here to stay for the foreseeable future. Serve and volleying just appears antiquated, like using a libero/sweeper in soccer - as such, the racquet's ability to volley is of much less importance to me than ground strokes or returns for instance. As such, Dunlop just comes across as a company who makes very solid sticks for guys in their 40s or early 50s that have a certain perspective on what a racquet should be like and want a quality reproduction of that (much like Pro Kennex and to an extent Yonex). Nothing wrong with that if that's your game, but it's not mine. That being said, the 200 Tour is a club and is fun because of it - also believe they can be found new for under $100.00.

In terms of the buzz/vibration, I believe some racquets are indeed better than others but that a happy medium can be found with the right string choice for almost all racquets. Put a full bed of stiff poly on an APDGT and it will be noticeably buzzy, sure - but natural gut (or even quality multi), to a lesser degree and none at all w/ blu tack/silicone. To me, however, I value performance over feel. For example, I recently sold off a pair of Fischer Vacuum Pro 90s. A much lauded racquet here - legendary feel and precision. This is true, however, the racquet is almost totally dead in the upper hoop and has very little inherent power (even with a full, traditional stroke). I wasn't willing to give up 10-20% of velocity for feel. Maybe your the same?

Also, and since I believe this will be a process rather than a quick fix, take a look at ****. Perform a search on the racquets you're interested in and see what price you can actually sell them off for if you get tired of them. In this regard, the APDGT or the PDR may have higher resale than something like a Exo Tour 100.

Finally, have you looked at the Head Microgel Radical MP? It checks off a few of the boxes you indicated and is dirt cheap right now. Although I much prefer the APD, the MG Radical is still a great racquet with less power, great feel, and low weight. Also, it's 18x20, so more suitable to your standard stroke.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 08:34 PM
What should I do, guys? Eeeny meany miny moe? Flip a damn coin? LOL.

I wish I could just buy whatever and be happy with it. Then I could just base my purchase on how the racket looks.

The more I think about it, the Microgel Radical may be perfect for you - in terms of your listed qualifications. $69.00 for a used Grade A on TW, with a 30 day return period... Let's see what others think.

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 08:41 PM
The more I think about it, the Microgel Radical may be perfect for you - in terms of your listed qualifications. $69.00 for a used Grade A on TW, with a 30 day return period... Let's see what others think.

That is a really good idea. I didnt see that one...

I actually rather enjoyed hitting with a IG rad MP, just didnt care for how it looked really lol. I know thats lame, but it matters to me.

El Zed
10-29-2012, 08:42 PM
El Zed.
Post 81, that's what I was answering.

Thanks; perhaps use the "quote" function to clarify responses that could be applicable to various posts. As such, yes, I agree that the added power can obviously benefit those inherently deficient in this manner - regardless of gender.

MikeHitsHard93
10-29-2012, 08:45 PM
plus the IG Rad MP is pricey. I would rather buy two used or sale rackets

El Zed
10-29-2012, 08:47 PM
That is a really good idea. I didnt see that one...

I actually rather enjoyed hitting with a IG rad MP, just didnt care for how it looked really lol. I know thats lame, but it matters to me.

I have one - originally bought for the wife while I was in my Prestige stage. Fun racquet, and sharp looking. It's not going to have the spin potential or power of the APD, but it's far more effective than the APD when employing a traditional stroke/grip and it has a good feel (although closer to the APD than classic Heads). Like the APD, it's also light enough to accept a ton of mods.

That being said, the ceiling is higher with the APD if you're willing to make changes to your game and if you can live with the feel (which after blu tack is sublime).

El Zed
10-29-2012, 08:57 PM
I have one - originally bought for the wife while I was in my Prestige stage. Fun racquet, and sharp looking. It's not going to have the spin potential or power of the APD, but it's far more effective than the APD when employing a traditional stroke/grip and it has a good feel (although closer to the APD than classic Heads). Like the APD, it's also light enough to accept a ton of mods.

That being said, the ceiling is higher with the APD if you're willing to make changes to your game and if you can live with the feel (which after blu tack is sublime).

Not to confuse you further, but have you looked into the Blade 98? I have no experience with the racquet, but a lot of positive press about it on here (although I'm wondering if it's generated by the recent postings by the pro on this board - apologies for not remembering his name).

Fuji
10-29-2012, 09:20 PM
Not to confuse you further, but have you looked into the Blade 98? I have no experience with the racquet, but a lot of positive press about it on here (although I'm wondering if it's generated by the recent postings by the pro on this board - apologies for not remembering his name).

I use the Blade 98 as my main stick these days as well. :razz:

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 06:25 AM
Not to confuse you further, but have you looked into the Blade 98? I have no experience with the racquet, but a lot of positive press about it on here (although I'm wondering if it's generated by the recent postings by the pro on this board - apologies for not remembering his name).

Yeah I've hit the blade 98 before. I liked it but it was a tad bit harsh. I think it was strung too tightly though. I would also probably ask tw to find one with a SW around 325 instead of in the 330's

Larrysümmers
10-30-2012, 06:30 AM
yes. microgel radical. ive got one of those laying around too. light enough to take fast swings, but very control oriented.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 07:02 AM
Larry, have you used a pacific XForce before? I'm worried about the radical fluttering in my hand just like the XForce.

Larrysümmers
10-30-2012, 07:08 AM
no. thats not a problem for me as i have a death grip on my racket lol. but even when i do loosen my grip to slow the shot down i dont have problems. mind you i added a leather grip, but idk if that would make a difference.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 07:19 AM
Yeah I see the tw play testers have the rad an 80 on stability and a 74 for the XForce. This might just be what I'm looking for.

Would I be able to request new strings rather than the stock strings? I also don't know what I would string it with.

Fuji
10-30-2012, 07:22 AM
Yeah I see the tw play testers have the rad an 80 on stability and a 74 for the XForce. This might just be what I'm looking for.

Would I be able to request new strings rather than the stock strings? I also don't know what I would string it with.

I've requested new strings from stock when I order over the phone. Any other medium doesn't offer it I believe.

String it up with something on the firmer end and I think you'd be golden!

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 07:27 AM
A firm poly or multi?

Fuji
10-30-2012, 07:31 AM
A firm poly or multi?

Definitely a firmer multi. A firm poly in a closed pattern definitely isn't my cup of tea since it just feels like a plank.

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 07:33 AM
Definitely a firmer multi. A firm poly in a closed pattern definitely isn't my cup of tea since it just feels like a plank.

-Fuji

Hmm ok. Maybe something like addiction then?

Larrysümmers
10-30-2012, 08:11 AM
ask my opinion and this is a spin monster with poly. but as Fuji said it is planky. i myself am a fan of nxt at higher tensions.

Fuji
10-30-2012, 08:12 AM
Hmm ok. Maybe something like addiction then?

Definitely!

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 10:53 AM
Anyone played the vcore 98D? That looks almost exactly what I want.

Fuji
10-30-2012, 11:45 AM
Anyone played the vcore 98D? That looks almost exactly what I want.

I really liked it when I demo'd it, it felt a bit stiffer then specs indicate though. Super firm racket head I felt. I had it strung with RIP Control @ 55/53lbs however.

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 12:00 PM
I really liked it when I demo'd it, it felt a bit stiffer then specs indicate though. Super firm racket head I felt. I had it strung with RIP Control @ 55/53lbs however.

-Fuji

It just seems sooo similar to my pro open. But the price tag sucks

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 12:05 PM
Screw it. I love my pro open. I'll either get another one or the new paint job. No adjustment and I know how it plays. Problem solved.

Fuji
10-30-2012, 01:23 PM
Screw it. I love my pro open. I'll either get another one or the new paint job. No adjustment and I know how it plays. Problem solved.

Good call!

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Can you tell I'm indecisive? ;) lol.

I'm dead set on this now though. I'm gonna buy the newer model.

What strings? I liked a hybrid of rpm and nvy as well as full multi. Felt like I got more consistency from the multi though. I wonder if full poly would be good

RollTrackTake
10-30-2012, 01:41 PM
Can you tell I'm indecisive? ;) lol.

I'm dead set on this now though. I'm gonna buy the newer model.

What strings? I liked a hybrid of rpm and nvy as well as full multi. Felt like I got more consistency from the multi though. I wonder if full poly would be good

I had a full bed of Weiss Cannon B5E in my Pro Open at 53 lbs and it was one of the best setups I've had in recent memory. If only madness and this message board hadn't led me astray...

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 01:43 PM
I had a full bed of Weiss Cannon B5E in my Pro Open at 53 lbs and it was one of the best setups I've had in recent memory. If only madness and this message board hadn't led me astray...

Lol how long did it last?

LeeD
10-30-2012, 02:11 PM
Rackets are cheap.
Buy what you like, use it for a while, buy something else.
Ever race roadracing, motocross, try waterski jumping, windsurf competitively? Those are not expensive.
Car racing is espensive.
Tennis rackets are cheap. I'm homeless and own 11 of 'em. Maybe that's why I'm homeless...

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 02:44 PM
Rackets are cheap.
Buy what you like, use it for a while, buy something else.
Ever race roadracing, motocross, try waterski jumping, windsurf competitively? Those are not expensive.
Car racing is espensive.
Tennis rackets are cheap. I'm homeless and own 11 of 'em. Maybe that's why I'm homeless...

Are you really homeless?

LeeD
10-30-2012, 02:55 PM
Living with g/f right now.
My big possession is my 1979 FordEconoline van. Yes, 1979. Next major possession is my 2012 CannodaleCaad8-6, about 700 bucks.
Haven't paid rent since 1993.
But now retired finally.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Hey man if you're healthy and happy then who cares right? :)

LeeD
10-30-2012, 03:29 PM
I think so.
When I was 12, I knew the normal life,.. wife, family, mortgage, was not for me. Plenty of guys want it, they can have my place.
I was raised in an academic family. Lucky for me, by 10, I found I was the best athlete in grade school, although the smallest. Figured I'd grow someday, so no problem. Didn't figure it would take me 2 years into junior college to grow.
Life is good, if you can wake up and look forward to doing something that day. I look forward to playing tennis maybe twice a week, but often play less than once a week, due to windsurfing, which takes up 7 days a week during the summer months.
I kinda approached life like the animals. Some females are attracted to big homes, security, money, and a dominating male. Not my type, obviously.
Some females build their own nests, like their lifestyle, cool.

sunof tennis
10-30-2012, 03:40 PM
That is a really good idea. I didnt see that one...

I actually rather enjoyed hitting with a IG rad MP, just didnt care for how it looked really lol. I know thats lame, but it matters to me.

That's a great racquet for modification as you get better.
By the way, have you posted a video of you hitting? You can get a lot of really good feedback here. It may well be a technique issue.

LeeD
10-30-2012, 03:48 PM
Tennis...
Maintain good posture on all shots.
Watch ball.
Swing as fast as you can control, add or subtract spin to keep the ball IN.
Hit 100,000 tennis balls while you're at it.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 03:50 PM
That's a great racquet for modification as you get better.
By the way, have you posted a video of you hitting? You can get a lot of really good feedback here. It may well be a technique issue.

No I haven't. I haven't played for 2 weeks because of the weather :/

I am hopefully going to take an intermediate tennis class next semester, so hopefully by then I can post a video. I'm sure it probably is a technique flaw.. My pro open just hides my flaws for me ;)

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 03:53 PM
That's a great racquet for modification as you get better.
By the way, have you posted a video of you hitting? You can get a lot of really good feedback here. It may well be a technique issue.

The class is at MSU and its $400

Fuji
10-30-2012, 04:02 PM
The class is at MSU and its $400

That's a good deal IMO. It gets you (hopefully) lots of court time to work on some things. Here coaching is anywhere from 70-100$ an hour, so really what most pay for 4-5 lessons here you are getting I believe way more time! :razz:

-Fuji

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Yeah it's two hours every week!

Fuji
10-30-2012, 04:18 PM
Yeah it's two hours every week!

That's really lucky! I wish my Uni offered a development course like that!

-Fuji

LeeD
10-30-2012, 04:27 PM
Why are we trying to "contain" the power? Why not harness it and use it to our advantage?

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 05:16 PM
That's really lucky! I wish my Uni offered a development course like that!

-Fuji

Well it's like a rec class but its half training half matches :)

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 05:17 PM
Why are we trying to "contain" the power? Why not harness it and use it to our advantage?

Lol wtf are you talking about LeeD?

LeeD
10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
What does "contain" cannote.
To keep it under control, right?
Why not utilize the power?

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 05:48 PM
What does "contain" cannote.
To keep it under control, right?
Why not utilize the power?

Isn't that what we were talking about before? And we concluded that spin was the way to harness the power? Lol

LeeD
10-30-2012, 06:12 PM
You said you don't hit with good spin, as one shot goes low, the other high.
So where does that leave you?
I say, swing as fast as you can under control, adding spin if needed, flatten it as needed.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 06:27 PM
You said you don't hit with good spin, as one shot goes low, the other high.
So where does that leave you?
I say, swing as fast as you can under control, adding spin if needed, flatten it as needed.

Depending on the circumstances and direction it's coming from. I can't wait for my class so that I can play against hard hitters

TennisCJC
10-30-2012, 06:46 PM
MHH93, seems like you are looking for a new racket quite a bit. Get any decent racket and that's it. The MG Rad or the older Dunlop AG 4d 300 that was on sale would both be great.

Then, stick with it for a minimum of 1 year - preferably 2 years.

I think you might want to learn more about technique and how to play tennis as equipment is only going to do so much.

Ideas other than buying a new racket:

1. Join a local USTA team that takes team lessons - cost is usually under $100 for the USTA fees and 7-10 weekly team lessons.
2. Get a 1-3 friends and buy a package of 4-6 lessons from a local pro. Again, cost should be low.
3. Buy a good tennis book and use it to work on your technique. I did this when I was young and my game was much improved after reading the book and sticking to the changes for 3 months.
4. Buy a 1 week package at a junior camp or adult camp. There has to be something near Michigan that is good. Nike has camps pretty much everywhere. If you are still in High School, tell your parents that's what you want for XMAS.

A racket will make a small change in the amount of power, spin or control your game has but in general, your technique is overwhelmingly more important to these attributes of your game.

In a nut shell, get a pretty decent racket for your game. It does not have to be perfect. Then concentrate on fine tuning your game. As you improve, you will begin to know more about which rackets are good for your game. I like thin beam, flexible, and moderately heavy rackets. I don't like thick beam, stiffer, and lighter rackets - I have strayed and tried thicker/stiffer frames but always go back to thin beams.

But, when I was young and a due to a shortage of funds, I would sometimes buy a couple of frames and play with them for many years. I played my Prince Precision Graphites for at least 5-6 years - maybe longer. I played the Volkl Quantum Tour 10 rackets for 4+ years. Older Tecnifibre 320 for 3 years. My current Volkl O10 295's are almost 2 years old now. Changing frames every year is not necessary especially if you are going to a different class of racket each time.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 07:21 PM
You caught me :P the funny thing is, I haven't kept any of the rackets that I have purchased. The only one I still have is my pro open, and I am going to stay with it.

The thing is, I shouldn't even really be worrying about even getting better. I am a college student and I work all of the time that I'm not at school. I still live with my parents, and taking once a week lessons would be the most I can do. I am probably going to not work as hard this summer, however, and do something as you are describing. I have never even heard of any of these things before.

I currently only have one love in my life, and her name is tennis.

I have one friend that I am sure would join me in hiring a pro to teach us. I actually know a pro, but he works somewhere that is incredibly expensive ($120/month). He is also getting too busy to even strong my rackets anymore and he lives too far away to offer private lessons.

I am going to check my college course that LCC offers and see what it's all about. Hopefully I get some good instruction out of it as well as some good fun tennis :)

So, for now, I believe I am done looking for a new racket. Instead, I will buy one or two used backups of my same racket and I will try out different strings, as I have made it clear that I want a stringer for Xmas. I love the way this racket plays, so I believe I need look no further. Ill instead spend my money on string, shoes, overgrip, and a new bag since I own a prince bag right now.

LeeD
10-30-2012, 07:57 PM
I sincerely HOPE your tennis class is the level you think it is.
Not trying to jinx you. "Intermediate" is often for people who played 5 times.
Hope it's not, in your case.

MikeHitsHard93
10-30-2012, 08:06 PM
I hope so too but I talked to the Instructor and he said they were mostly 4.0

RollTrackTake
10-30-2012, 08:32 PM
Lol how long did it last?

Lasted me 20+ hours! I don't crush the ball mind you except for 1st serves. I go with a medium paced loopy topspin forehand and a flatter top 2hbh. no elbow issues as well. The Pro Open (mine are the NCode versions) are really good racquets imo. I think you really have to figure out what type of game you want to play and where you want to go with it. The Pro Open is versatile but if you want to swing out on every shot and let it rip you may want to switch to a low powered 'players' frame. You'll perfect generating your own power (if not already) and have better control. keep in mind there are tons of college level players using APDGT's and Pure Drives and the Pro Open is very similar. if you put the work in with any racquet you'll figure out how to use it the way you want.

gregor.b
10-30-2012, 08:52 PM
I'm glad you're one to learn, and good for you! Certainly a rare breed when everyone looks for quick fixes by means of equipment "upgrade".

Firstly, what grip are you using? Certain grips make it harder to impart spin, but not impossible. Western-ish grips have an easier time to impart spin because of the contact point and swing path. Eastern-ish grips have a harder time to impart spin, but not impossible.

Secondly, spin can come down to faith you have in yourself. You really have swing faster, if you're hesitant on the stroke, chances are it'll fly out. So don't be afraid, and swing out. You have to believe the brush and the subsequent spin will keep the ball in the court.

This one. I generate a bucket load of spin using an 18 x 19 pattern but I actually swing a little more aggressively when trying to hit angles or really rip the ball. It usually comes down to grip and/or lack of racquet head speed. Practice and you will find out fairly quickly.

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-30-2012, 08:56 PM
Greg!

so, how is the 2HBH coming?

be up your way after christmas, hit?

TennisCJC
10-31-2012, 08:15 AM
Does your college offer intramural or a club team options for tennis. I know some intermediate level players that were not strong enough to play collegiate tennis but they played club or intramural. Might be a good way to meet tennis players. Also, mixed doubles could really open up some options - co-eds in nice tennis clothes sounds great to an old man like me.

MikeHitsHard93
10-31-2012, 08:48 AM
Does your college offer intramural or a club team options for tennis. I know some intermediate level players that were not strong enough to play collegiate tennis but they played club or intramural. Might be a good way to meet tennis players. Also, mixed doubles could really open up some options - co-eds in nice tennis clothes sounds great to an old man like me.

Lol! No I am at a community college and there's no team. I'm going to play at the club level hopefully when I transfer to a university. That sounds excellent to me as well...most tennis chicks are nice and lean ;)

LeeD
10-31-2012, 01:43 PM
Community college, 4.0 intermediate class, I don't think so.
4.5 would be varsity tennis team.
But I hope the coach is right.

MikeHitsHard93
10-31-2012, 01:53 PM
Community college, 4.0 intermediate class, I don't think so.
4.5 would be varsity tennis team.
But I hope the coach is right.

Like I said, I will try it out. I can get my money back