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tacou
10-29-2012, 02:20 PM
Inspired by the Djokovic thread....

I'm not disputing that tanking, especially this time of year by the top players, exists. However, using youtube clips/other forms of "proof," provide what you think to be the best example of a tank job.

For clarification, quitting mid match is not a tank job, and neither is Tomic's lack of effort vs. Roddick. To me "tanking" means going into the match with the idea that it would be better, no matter what happens in-match, to lose.

Good luck.

tennis_pro
10-29-2012, 02:22 PM
Agassi wrote in his book that he tanked his match against Chang at the 1996 AO to avoid Becker but I don't quite believe it.

Shaolin
10-29-2012, 02:54 PM
Inspired by the Djokovic thread....

I'm not disputing that tanking, especially this time of year by the top players, exists. However, using youtube clips/other forms of "proof," provide what you think to be the best example of a tank job.

For clarification, quitting mid match is not a tank job, and neither is Tomic's lack of effort vs. Roddick. To me "tanking" means going into the match with the idea that it would be better, no matter what happens in-match, to lose.

Good luck.


Sorry, but you personal opinion on what tanking is does not make it fact.

Quitting mid-match IS tanking. A guy loses the first set and decides he doesn't have the game or energy to win the match so then puts forth a half hearted effort from then on = tanking. Tomic vs Roddick is textbook example. It's a lousy thing to do especially considering fans pay money to see them play their best.

vive le beau jeu !
10-29-2012, 02:58 PM
lendl losing 76 61 connors at the masters 1980 ?
(in order to avoid borg in the SF)

Steve0904
10-29-2012, 03:52 PM
Yes, quitting mid match is in fact tanking. With that said, I don't have a video of the whole match, but Wawrinka did a nice tank job in Shanghai a couple weeks ago against Federer. That's my pick off the top of my head.

Homeboy Hotel
10-29-2012, 03:58 PM
Nishikori vs Djokovic Basel 2011
Nadal vs Murray Tokyo 2011
Djokovic vs Tipsarevic World Tour Finals 2011

Mainad
10-29-2012, 04:06 PM
Nishikori vs Djokovic Basel 2011
Nadal vs Murray Tokyo 2011
Djokovic vs Tipsarevic World Tour Finals 2011

I'm assuming you're joking. But just in case you're not:

Djokovic was just gassed out at 2011 Basel and WTF and why would he have wanted to tank anyway, especially at the WTF?

As for Nadal,why would he have wanted to tank a final and humiliate himself by getting bagelled in the final set, only winning 4 points? Why would set out to do that?? :confused:

Gonzo_style
10-29-2012, 04:13 PM
and why would he have wanted to tank anyway, especially at the WTF?



Djokovic played vs Tipsy , in that match win or lose for him doesn't matter, Ferrer had to defeat Berdych and that didn't happen.

Homeboy Hotel
10-29-2012, 04:25 PM
I'm assuming you're joking. But just in case you're not:

Djokovic was just gassed out at 2011 Basel and WTF and why would he have wanted to tank anyway, especially at the WTF?

As for Nadal,why would he have wanted to tank a final and humiliate himself by getting bagelled in the final set, only winning 4 points? Why would set out to do that?? :confused:

I just can't accept 6-0 sets at the highest level of competitive tennis without some form of tanking. Just doesn't sit well with me.

At the start of the third sets for the Djokovic Basel/Nadal Tokyo I'm pretty sure they tried to pull out the win, but once they see they are 0-3 0-40 down, I don't see them trying any harder.

And in regards to Tipsarevic v Djokovic, Djokovic couldn't qualify for the SF and he loves Tipsarevic (didn't they go on holiday together 2 days later?) - so yes, tanking.

Tipsarevic vs Djokovic USO is again, sniffles of tanking.

1972murat
10-29-2012, 05:13 PM
I also believe tanking happens during the match, not before. If anyone remembers the career of Goran Ivanisevic, you will find many examples of that. Things don't go the way you wish, and you just give up trying. That's tanking for me. planning to lose BEFORE the game starts, for me that is more like cheating as opposed to tanking.

tennisaddict
10-29-2012, 07:45 PM
Fed likes Delpo, didnt want to inflict another loss and hence tanked Basel 2012.

Fed tanked against Murray at Olympics 2012 finals. He was too tired after the semis, didnt really want to fight, at the same time also felt bad that Murray has not won anything of note , so just gifted him.

Mainad
10-29-2012, 08:05 PM
I just can't accept 6-0 sets at the highest level of competitive tennis without some form of tanking. Just doesn't sit well with me.

So you're sayiing Federer deliberately tanked the 2008 FO final and Djokovic deliberately tanked the 2012 Cincinnati final?


At the start of the third sets for the Djokovic Basel/Nadal Tokyo I'm pretty sure they tried to pull out the win, but once they see they are 0-3 0-40 down, I don't see them trying any harder.

I refuse to believe anybody would deliberately let themselves be bagelled especially the top players!


Tipsarevic vs Djokovic USO is again, sniffles of tanking.

You're saying they had an agreement whereby Tipsarevic would win the first set and then throw a sickie to tank the second?

Mainad
10-29-2012, 08:13 PM
Fed likes Delpo, didnt want to inflict another loss and hence tanked Basel 2012.

Lol..so why didn't he tank the Olympic semi-final and give poor Delpo a chance to win it?


Fed tanked against Murray at Olympics 2012 finals. He was too tired after the semis, didnt really want to fight, at the same time also felt bad that Murray has not won anything of note , so just gifted him.

No doubt he tanked the USO quarter-final too so Murray wouldn't have to play him in the semis and also the Shanghai semi-final because he wanted Murray to carry on his winning streak?

Will he be tanking the WTF as well so as to let Murray win that one too? After all, Murray has never won it before you know.

:)

Gizo
10-29-2012, 11:02 PM
Nadal tanked the third set of his 2011 Queen's 2011 QF against Tsonga.

He exerted a lot of effort in the first 2 sets, but after losing the second set, he was sensible enough to realise that he had enough grass court practice under his belt before Wimbledon, and had played 27 matches (the maximum amount from his 5 tournaments) during his packed clay court season.

There was no point over-exerting himself before Wimbledon, and it was much better for him to get back to Majorca to rest and unwind for a few days.

He learnt his lesson well from Rotterdam 2009 when he stupidly fought like a warrior in most of his matches there that week, when really there was no point putting in that much effort in a smaller tournament.

Sampras did win the Queen's title twice, but still used to tank matches and sets there all the time. The bookmakers were smart to enough to realise what was going on, and didn't adjust his Wimbledon title odds whenever he lost at Queen's.

The Bawss
10-30-2012, 12:46 AM
Nadal tanked his match against Kohlschreiber at Queens. No wait, he is just an inferior player.

underground
10-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Wawrinka tanking against Federer in Shanghai, that was the most obvious tanking I've seen in awhile.

Gizo
10-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Agassi tanked the 3rd set of his 1989 US Open quarter-final against Connors, in order to orchestrate the first 5 set victory of his career.

He was seen holding up all 5 fingers on one hand in the direction of his coach Bollettieri.

zam88
10-30-2012, 11:35 AM
i think you can tank a few games without tanking match... hence some of the 6-0's.

I mean if you get broken in your first two service games and are down 4-0 or 5-0... there's a reasonable chance that it might be a better use of your energy to put everything into the next set rather than everything into trying to make a comeback in that particular set.

If I"m down 4-0 or 5-0 in a set, I'm probably letting that set go mentally a lot of the time unless I truly feel i'm vastly superior to my opponent and I'm down because of some bad bounces and some bad luck.

tacou
10-31-2012, 11:46 AM
i think you can tank a few games without tanking match... hence some of the 6-0's.

I agree. Isner tanks return games pretty often

tacou
10-31-2012, 11:49 AM
Sorry, but you personal opinion on what tanking is does not make it fact.


Quite hostile. Tanking is a slang term in the sports world, and I was just making it clear what the point of my thread is.

To me a 76 61 scoreline means the losing player put forth effort but then lost motivation. I find it much more interesting when someone like Federer goes INTO a match thinking "I do not want to win this match."

フェデラー
10-31-2012, 12:06 PM
I just can't accept 6-0 sets at the highest level of competitive tennis without some form of tanking. Just doesn't sit well with me.

At the start of the third sets for the Djokovic Basel/Nadal Tokyo I'm pretty sure they tried to pull out the win, but once they see they are 0-3 0-40 down, I don't see them trying any harder.

And in regards to Tipsarevic v Djokovic, Djokovic couldn't qualify for the SF and he loves Tipsarevic (didn't they go on holiday together 2 days later?) - so yes, tanking.

Tipsarevic vs Djokovic USO is again, sniffles of tanking.

Yep Rafa and Fed definitely tanked those Wimby and FO finals. And did rafa also tank WTF 2011, Hamburg 2007, even after winning the first set convincingly in that Hamburg final? I believe Nadal got bageled by Coria back in the day, but still won the match. Sometimes bagels just happen, and they are outplayed.

CDNguy87
10-31-2012, 12:26 PM
I'm assuming you're joking. But just in case you're not:

Djokovic was just gassed out at 2011 Basel and WTF and why would he have wanted to tank anyway, especially at the WTF?

As for Nadal,why would he have wanted to tank a final and humiliate himself by getting bagelled in the final set, only winning 4 points? Why would set out to do that?? :confused:


I made a thread explaining why he should have before that match: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=404384

hersito
10-31-2012, 12:26 PM
There are very few games any player would tank, besides if you tank a game you are a looser, who goes out to a court not wanting to win even if you are 0-6 0-5 and 0-40, I still want to win I'll keep playing maybe if I don't win by points I'll win because the other player gets injured or something. If player looses a match on purpose for me its a looser, and to think like some people say that for example Federer tanked against Delpo in the basel final is not only disrespectful for Delpo but also for Federer. Tanking is just an excuse that fans have for when their favorite player looses. If you meet a no 1 player and most pro player in any sport you know that they dont like to loose not even to their kids, that's the reason they are no 1 among other things.

smoledman
10-31-2012, 12:41 PM
2006 Cincy - Fed against Murray

tennis_pro
10-31-2012, 01:08 PM
There are very few games any player would tank, besides if you tank a game you are a looser, who goes out to a court not wanting to win even if you are 0-6 0-5 and 0-40, I still want to win I'll keep playing maybe if I don't win by points I'll win because the other player gets injured or something. If player looses a match on purpose for me its a looser, and to think like some people say that for example Federer tanked against Delpo in the basel final is not only disrespectful for Delpo but also for Federer. Tanking is just an excuse that fans have for when their favorite player looses. If you meet a no 1 player and most pro player in any sport you know that they dont like to loose not even to their kids, that's the reason they are no 1 among other things.

My eyes !!

hersito
10-31-2012, 01:36 PM
My eyes !!

I'm not an native english speaker, sorry, would love to see you write all that in spanish... :P

heftylefty
10-31-2012, 02:19 PM
I'm not an native english speaker, sorry, would love to see you write all that in spanish... :P

You English is superior to my Spanish!!

tennisaddict
10-31-2012, 04:53 PM
Lol..so why didn't he tank the Olympic semi-final and give poor Delpo a chance to win it?



No doubt he tanked the USO quarter-final too so Murray wouldn't have to play him in the semis and also the Shanghai semi-final because he wanted Murray to carry on his winning streak?

Will he be tanking the WTF as well so as to let Murray win that one too? After all, Murray has never won it before you know.

:)

Fed cannot tank Olympic medal since he didnt have any singles medal before. He could have lost to Delpo and beaten Nole, but Delpo is like a punching bag. He has the Doubles gold anyways, so he thought singles silver will give him some variety. Since the semis took energy, he didnt feel the need to fight for the finals.

Murray has won only 1 set so far in a slam till now - that is against 31 year old Fed.

Any wins that he will get against Fed from now dont count .Someone in their prime deserve no special praise to beat a father of two school going girls.

Max G.
10-31-2012, 05:42 PM
A win is a win is a win.

Mainad
10-31-2012, 06:06 PM
Fed cannot tank Olympic medal since he didnt have any singles medal before. He could have lost to Delpo and beaten Nole, but Delpo is like a punching bag. He has the Doubles gold anyways, so he thought singles silver will give him some variety. Since the semis took energy, he didnt feel the need to fight for the finals.

Dream on! Federer talked all the time about how excited he was about London 2012 and still talks even now of lasting out until Rio 2016. That dream of winning the Olympic singles gold never dies with him. It's all he has left to achieve. He would never tank away the chance to win one in a million years!


Murray has won only 1 set so far in a slam till now - that is against 31 year old Fed.

Lol...Murray has won many sets in Slams. But I assume you were referring to Slam finals? This year he has won 4 sets in Slam finals, 1 against Federer and 3 against Djokovic!


Any wins that he will get against Fed from now dont count .Someone in their prime deserve no special praise to beat a father of two school going girls.

Why, does being a father of two little girls (they are 3 years old by the way, not yet school age) somehow make you suddenly incapable of playing tennis? If so, why does Federer keep going and how come he continues to beat the top players and win many titles including 6 this year and still counting!

Towser83
10-31-2012, 06:13 PM
Fed cannot tank Olympic medal since he didnt have any singles medal before. He could have lost to Delpo and beaten Nole, but Delpo is like a punching bag. He has the Doubles gold anyways, so he thought singles silver will give him some variety. Since the semis took energy, he didnt feel the need to fight for the finals.

Murray has won only 1 set so far in a slam till now - that is against 31 year old Fed.

Any wins that he will get against Fed from now dont count .Someone in their prime deserve no special praise to beat a father of two school going girls.

erm Murray won the US Open. The whole thing. 3 sets haha

tennisaddict
10-31-2012, 06:32 PM
erm Murray won the US Open. The whole thing. 3 sets haha

Murray has won only 1 set against Fed in a major. Isnt that right ?

tennisaddict
10-31-2012, 06:36 PM
If so, why does Federer keep going and how come he continues to beat the top players and win many titles including 6 this year and still counting!

That is because Federer is GOD and Murray is just another tennis player.

So, if you want to celeberate prime 25 year old Murray beating a family man with school going kids, go ahead..After all, there is only so much to celeberate when it comes to Murray.

Tony48
10-31-2012, 08:20 PM
It was either last year or 2010.....Fed tanked the last few games vs. Djokovic in the 4th set at the U.S. Open.

Hawkeye7
10-31-2012, 08:38 PM
That is because Federer is GOD and Murray is just another tennis player.

So, if you want to celeberate prime 25 year old Murray beating a family man with school going kids, go ahead..After all, there is only so much to celeberate when it comes to Murray.

The thing is though, aside from Nadal, Murray is the only other active player who has a positive record against him. I mean if Fed couldn't be arsed to win matches in 2008 or just wasn't capable of doing so, why was Murray the only one to take advantage? Weird coincidence. Why do guys like Djokovic and del Potro not have a positive record against Fed?

Did Fed feel so sorry for Murray that he had to let him win the majority of their matches?

Towser83
10-31-2012, 09:39 PM
Murray has won only 1 set against Fed in a major. Isnt that right ?

Oh against Federer yes. You didn't say that, you just said in a slam..

beast of mallorca
10-31-2012, 09:56 PM
That is because Federer is GOD and Murray is just another tennis player.

So, if you want to celeberate prime 25 year old Murray beating a family man with school going kids, go ahead..After all, there is only so much to celeberate when it comes to Murray.

Stupid post is stupid.

Mainad
10-31-2012, 10:41 PM
That is because Federer is GOD and Murray is just another tennis player.

Well, if Federer is GOD , then he can do ANYTHING at ANY time at ANY age, can't he? That makes it even more remarkable and praiseworthy that a mere mortal like Murray can beat God more times than God has been able to beat HIM! :)

cc0509
10-31-2012, 10:51 PM
Djokovic vs Nishikori Basel 2011
Djokovic vs Tipsarevic WTF 2011
Djokovic vs Ferrer WTF 2011
Djokovic vs Querrey Paris 2012

Djokovic is the master at tanking. Look no further than some of his matches.

cc0509
10-31-2012, 10:53 PM
Well, if Federer is GOD , then he can do ANYTHING at ANY time at ANY age, can't he? That makes it even more remarkable and praiseworthy that a mere mortal like Murray can beat God more times than God has been able to beat HIM! :)

But not at where it counts the most, at slams! :twisted: At least not so far, but with Federer aging that will come too soon enough.

Feather
10-31-2012, 11:44 PM
So you're sayiing Federer deliberately tanked the 2008 FO final and Djokovic deliberately tanked the 2012 Cincinnati final?

I refuse to believe anybody would deliberately let themselves be bagelled especially the top players!



Perfectly said !

Feather
10-31-2012, 11:49 PM
Djokovic vs Nishikori Basel 2011
Djokovic vs Tipsarevic WTF 2011
Djokovic vs Ferrer WTF 2011
Djokovic vs Querrey Paris 2012

Djokovic is the master at tanking. Look no further than some of his matches.

Why would Novak tank against Ferrer in WTF 2011?

cc0509
10-31-2012, 11:58 PM
Why would Novak tank against Ferrer in WTF 2011?

Because for whatever reason, Djokovic does not care much about the WTF or he sure didn't last year when he won everything else in sight. Seems he cares more about slams and some of the Masters events at this point. He has already won it once (the WTF.)

Feather
11-01-2012, 12:01 AM
Because for whatever reason, Djokovic does not care much about the WTF or he sure didn't last year when he won everything else in sight. Seems he cares more about slams and some of the Masters events at this point. He has already won it once (the WTF.)

Different topic, but when I heard Novak lost I felt sad that Roger withdrew from Paris. He had a great chance to get 1000 points here..

I wonder Roger regrets pulling out. How badly I wanted him to be YE#1 sigh !

cc0509
11-01-2012, 12:17 AM
Different topic, but when I heard Novak lost I felt sad that Roger withdrew from Paris. He had a great chance to get 1000 points here..

I wonder Roger regrets pulling out. How badly I wanted him to be YE#1 sigh !

Obviously Roger doesn't care much about it at this stage of his career, so neither should we. He already achieved his goals for this year and Djokovic has probably achieved his goals for this year. I don't expect to see much more out of Djokovic for this year.

sbengte
11-01-2012, 02:16 AM
Because for whatever reason, Djokovic does not care much about the WTF or he sure didn't last year when he won everything else in sight. Seems he cares more about slams and some of the Masters events at this point. He has already won it once (the WTF.)

Huh ? Why wouldn't he care for a title which is the next most prestigious thing after a slam ? There were 1500 points at stake and a chance to cap off his 3 slam year with the WTF title and match some of Fed's earlier seasons.

To say Nole tanked against Ferrer is an insult to Ferrer , a consistent top 5 player for years now. Maybe he was spent and didn't have much in the tank post USO and all the winning early on in the season probably took it's toll. He also had some kind of a shoulder issue late last year from what I remember. But to say he willingly tanked it because "he didn't care" is just rubbish.

cc0509
11-01-2012, 02:32 AM
sbengte;6987336]Huh ? Why wouldn't he care for a title which is the next most prestigious thing after a slam ? There were 1500 points at stake and a chance to cap off his 3 slam year with the WTF title and match some of Fed's earlier seasons.

I don't know why he wouldn't but he doesn't that much is obvious. After the USO last year he was tanking matches left and right. He had nothing left. I don't think it is right, but it sure seems to be his way of thinking. There is no other way to explain his tapering off of performance level in 2011 after the USO. He was pretty much done in his mind and talked about it many times to the media and was easy to pick up on for those who are bright enough.

To say Nole tanked against Ferrer is an insult to Ferrer , a consistent top 5 player for years now. Maybe he was spent and didn't have much in the tank post USO and all the winning early on in the season probably took it's toll. He also had some kind of a shoulder issue late last year from what I remember. But to say he willingly tanked it because "he didn't care" is just rubbish.


Ferrer as good as he is, is not as good as Djokovic when Djokovic is 100 percent committed and I don't care if it is an insult to Ferrer, it is the truth.
Say what you want, but Djokovic tanked that match. He was talking to the media about how he was tired and out of gas.

sbengte
11-01-2012, 02:51 AM
Say what you want, but Djokovic tanked that match. He was talking to the media about how he was tired and out of gas.

Tanking = willingly, deliberately throwing a match.
If he himself admitted he was tired and out of gas, how does that equate to tanking ? He gave what he had and that was not good enough.

cc0509
11-01-2012, 03:02 AM
Tanking = willingly, deliberately throwing a match.
If he himself admitted he was tired and out of gas, how does that equate to tanking ? He gave what he had and that was not good enough.

He is not going to admit he tanked is he? Saying he is tired and out of gas is his excuse. The guy is 25 years old, how tired can he be if old man Federer can feel pumped enough to win the YEC year after year, surely so can a younger Djokovic. It is obvious to see that his mindset is not as strong at the end of the year. He has achieved his goal of YE number one, what difference does winning the YEC really make for him?

Now if you told me Djokovic gave all that he had at the beginning or middle of the year and lost anyway, I would agree for example his loss to Isner at the IW, but I can't agree with you that Djokovic is fully invested at the end of the year.
I think his behavior sucks by the way.

tennis_pro
11-03-2012, 05:49 AM
I'm not an native english speaker, sorry, would love to see you write all that in spanish... :P

I ain't native in English as well.