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View Full Version : POG - Why so out of vogue?


El Zed
11-08-2012, 11:46 AM
Given the buzz generated by the new Wilson 99S - apparently, deservedly so - and in anticipation of its demoing/purchase, my appetite for equipment aided spin generation has been whetted by consideration of the Exo 100 Tour and derivatively the POG (in both MP/OS versions).

I believe this post is in the correct place, although I can understand why the classic racquet section may be more appropriate - but I am nonetheless baffled as to why this racquet appears to have limited popularity here and fails to command much resale value on the big auction site. Were there just a ton produced (relative to the other classics), or is there some significant flaw associated with them? I understand that they are weighty, but not apparently much more so than the classic heads or pro staffs. Also, I believe Chris rated the top-spin on the MP as an 87 - comporting with the general sentiment here that this racquet is a legend in spin-generation, and therefore feasibly viable today. Finally, and particularly with the OS, this racquet has one legend associated with it's use (sorry Michael Chang fans, but MC is not a legend). So what gives, why is there such little discussion/regard/recommendation for this racquet?

Fuji
11-08-2012, 11:55 AM
Lots produced and I find it a bit unwieldy. The mid was just not a feel I was really I fan of. It felt a lot like an in between stick, and not something I would be able to win with. It just felt really awkward to me even though I love mid's such as the PS90/PC600. Plus the string breaking was unbearable. Restringing every 2-3 hours wasn't my cup of tea LOL!

-Fuji

El Zed
11-08-2012, 12:08 PM
Lots produced and I find it a bit unwieldy. The mid was just not a feel I was really I fan of. It felt a lot like an in between stick, and not something I would be able to win with. It just felt really awkward to me even though I love mid's such as the PS90/PC600. Plus the string breaking was unbearable. Restringing every 2-3 hours wasn't my cup of tea LOL!

-Fuji

Thank you for the reply, that's very interesting (albeit a shame given the high marks on its topspin potential). To be frank, my interest in the POG and Donnay (and to a slightly less extent the Trisys 260) was somewhat tempered by the fact that Agassi now appears to be using the APDGT...but that could be just down to $$$.

Seth
11-08-2012, 12:09 PM
There's no question that both headsizes provide plenty of access to spin. The mid, for me, is an excellent frame. Great response from the stringbed and for experienced players it is a scalpel. I enjoy hitting with the OS version as well, but I had a hard time adjusting to it when serving. I'm use to playing with Wilson 6.1 95 frames, so maybe it was the headsize. I just couldn't get a good wrist snap on my flat first serve. Second serves were a dream, however. Plenty of spin to hit kickers.

Like Fuji said, you will break strings fairly regularly, but I play with a full bed of Gosen OGSM and string my own frames, so from a cost perspective it didn't bother me.

sansaephanh
11-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Agreed, though I'm not a string breaker. I only found it unwieldy due to its extremely small sweet spot and brassy feedback on shots higher up on the string bed.

The kinds of things you can produce from its sweet spot is pretty insane though. The sweet spot felt like it was barely bigger then the size of the ball itself. As for hitting on the tope of the string bed, its a habit i've come to terms with lol.

El Zed
11-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Agreed, though I'm not a string breaker. I only found it unwieldy due to its extremely small sweet spot and brassy feedback on shots higher up on the string bed.

The kinds of things you can produce from its sweet spot is pretty insane though. The sweet spot felt like it was barely bigger then the size of the ball itself. As for hitting on the tope of the string bed, its a habit i've come to terms with lol.

Is that in regards to the MP or the OS - or both?

gh65721
11-08-2012, 01:18 PM
the feel on the older OS models is sublime but they are so heavy!! I have had the 1st 2 generations. They hit great but I just could not volley with them. I was thinking of trying a 4 stripe model to see if they were more headlight and manueverable at the net

mad dog1
11-08-2012, 01:40 PM
Is that in regards to the MP or the OS - or both?

sweet spot can be pretty small for the mid depending on how high it's strung. the os has a huge sweetspot.

hrstrat57
11-08-2012, 02:39 PM
As Fuji correctly describes re the POG mid the string breaking was unbearable.

I had three in the bag and very often broke all 3 in a match....and I am not a big string breaker by any means. I now play Head 18x20 frames for example and have not broken a string in play in over 2 years.

If you are going to bag the POG mid you will need at least 4 in your bag if you hit with any pace at all.

It is a great, great frame.

I have never owned an OS which is odd.....

boramiNYC
11-08-2012, 03:32 PM
many great players started out with POG in their careers (esp OS and long version too) before switching for sponsor money. any serious tennis players must try POG's. the feel and balance is exceptional.

I used POG mid for many years of open tourney playing and it's great racquet even to this day. String breakage is definitely higher than more dense pattern but there are ways to reduce that by finding the right strings. I moved onto even smaller head for my 1hbh but it's a sweet sweet racquet.

UCSF2012
11-08-2012, 04:22 PM
Oddly enough, I get more spin from the 18x20 Blade Tour than the POG. The POG is such a weak racket, I couldn't do anything with it. I'm now at 5 strips (10 total) of 6 inch lead at 3/9 and even that's not cutting it. It has gut/poly at 4 lbs lower than my usual tension.

I think the POG may truely be outdated.

matchmaker
11-08-2012, 04:56 PM
I indeed think that the POG is a classic frame, just like the PC600, the PT280, or the Pro Staff 6.0.

I played a few matches with the POG OS and it is a tremendous racquet. It is the most stable frame of all times. There is no frame vibration whatsoever. Racquetresearch indicated it as the least vibrating frame, and from personal experience I have to agree with it.

It is a spin monster, has a big sweetspot, very controllable power. When using this frame my balls would kick shoulder high and my opponents would be several meters behind the baseline.

I truly believe this is a classic and modern frame at the same time. It is more than viable in today's tennis. It is also very fit to use with modern equipment, i.e. polyester string.

I am more of a midsize guy, so I only used it a couple of times, but this is a hell of an impressive frame. Players who use a 98/100 sq. inch, should really give this a try. Many midplus raquets don't have the control you can get with the POG OS.

One of the only flaws I found was that it wasn't great at flat serves, but the spin serves were incredible. It's also not really a volleyer's frame, although it deals with volleys just fine, but it can be a bit unwieldy at net.

El Zed
11-08-2012, 06:29 PM
A ton of great responses, thank you everyone.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but I recall visiting this site back in 2004 or so and I recall that the POG was the defacto recommendation (in addition to the Pro Vacuum, which was easier to find then) - similar, although not exactly like, to the regard the Prestige has now. The funny thing is while the Prestige has the "player's stick" caveat clearly advertised, the POG was presented as being the stick for all (perhaps due to the utility of both the MP and the OS). Anyone else remember this? The interesting this about this, of course, is that this regard came closer to the Prestige's heyday than now.

Funny how the responses have ranged - from outdated to, basically, the best stick ever. Although I haven't used the POG in years, I remember thinking it was special, but nonetheless being swayed by the precision - dare I say feel - of the PS85. The thing that gets me, however, is that in this day-and-age of uber-spin, the POG may still very well be at the top of the heap in potential spin-production. While I appreciate concerns attributable to high swing weight and static weight, I nonetheless believe that these factors are something people can come to terms with (i.e. developing muscle memory) given time. So, why aren't more spin-masters using it? As to the string breakage - definitely a hassle, no doubt - but if people can put-up with the feel of babolats, I would think that string-breakage would be a less arduous bridge to cross.

Finally, as per Chris' review - I though that the OS was supposed to be a monster in terms of power-on-tap - is this incorrect (yes, even in comparison to modern babs)?

Say Chi Sin Lo
11-08-2012, 06:34 PM
People don't use the POG because it's not bright, glittered with colors, and make you look like you're playing with some country's flag.

El Zed
11-08-2012, 06:48 PM
People don't use the POG because it's not bright, glittered with colors, and make you look like you're playing with some country's flag.

Fair point, but how about the lack of recommendations on here? Hardly ever recall it being mentioned recently unless in terms of the "stick with the most spin."

To add - the Prestige is also anything but a flashy frame, yet it has a ton of popularity,

Say Chi Sin Lo
11-08-2012, 06:54 PM
Fair point, but how about the lack of recommendations on here? Hardly ever recall it being mentioned recently unless in terms of the "stick with the most spin."

That's because of the lower power that is associated with a traditional racquet.

Many people here play with the easiest racquets they can find and are content with it. For me, I'd recommend people to play with the most difficult racquet they can find and use it to improve.

Seth
11-08-2012, 07:08 PM
I wish they would reissue the POG midplus Longbody. That was a great frame, and fairly popular on tour (Coria, Ferrero, Nalbandian).

Fuji
11-08-2012, 07:12 PM
That's because of the lower power that is associated with a traditional racquet.

Many people here play with the easiest racquets they can find and are content with it. For me, I'd recommend people to play with the most difficult racquet they can find and use it to improve.

That seems so backwards to me haha. Play with what gives you the most wins, isn't the reason for playing to win? :razz:

-Fuji

El Zed
11-08-2012, 09:17 PM
That seems so backwards to me haha. Play with what gives you the most wins, isn't the reason for playing to win? :razz:

-Fuji

Does playing with a more difficult racquet really make on a better player though? I know the superficial answer is "yes," given the perspective that work = improvement, but I think it's a bit of a fallacy.

To this end, I think we can all agree that every racquet is unique - it's various qualities aggregate to create a different experience from every other racquet. For all the comparisons of racquets, and perceived similarities, there is always a "but" - where a significant distinction comes in. That being said, by playing with a more difficult racquet, you may be mastering that particular racquet, but I'm not sure you are gaining skills that will allow for you to effectively master every other "less demanding" racquet. For instance, a player using a Prestige (with a traditional stroke) will have a difficult time approaching the APDGT in a similar fashion. By extrapolating the aforementioned reasoning, I guess one would be arguing that Rafa would have been a better play had he played with a Prestige for instance - not sure about that.

El Zed
11-08-2012, 09:18 PM
I wish they would reissue the POG midplus Longbody. That was a great frame, and fairly popular on tour (Coria, Ferrero, Nalbandian).

Nalbandian? That's really interesting to hear that, as I've always admired his game.

I Heart Thomas Muster
11-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Believe me I wish I held onto my Prince Graphite Oversize's, 2003 Fischer Pro No. 1's and Head Pro Tour 280's.

mad dog1
11-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Believe me I wish I held onto my Prince Graphite Oversize's, 2003 Fischer Pro No. 1's and Head Pro Tour 280's.

great frames, indeed. got a bunch of each. currently have 1 of each in my bag.

El Zed
11-08-2012, 09:48 PM
great frames, indeed. got a bunch of each. currently have 1 of each in my bag.

To you both, how would you compare the POG OS to the PT280? My understanding is that the power and spin of the POG OS are on another level to the PT280, although lacking in comparison in terms of feel and precision? By the way, huge fan of the PT280 - which I'm apparently trending back to.

I Heart Thomas Muster
11-08-2012, 10:10 PM
great frames, indeed. got a bunch of each. currently have 1 of each in my bag.

Nice bag!:)

I Heart Thomas Muster
11-08-2012, 10:13 PM
To you both, how would you compare the POG OS to the PT280? My understanding is that the power and spin of the POG OS are on another level to the PT280, although lacking in comparison in terms of feel and precision? By the way, huge fan of the PT280 - which I'm apparently trending back to.


It's been a while since I played either but I remember both being rock solid and while I never had a problem generating spin with the Pro Tour 280, the spin production was incredible with the Prince Graphite OS and Prince Graphite II OS. I had to play Prince Pro Blend to make the strings last. I feel like the Prince Graphite was a bit softer and more comfortable than the 280 but I've always felt there was something magical about the 280/630 frames that has never been replicated by Head since. Of course being Thomas Muster is my favorite player you'd expect me to say that.

Steve Huff
11-09-2012, 05:28 AM
Prince went with stiff and large holes. The Graphite was completely the opposite. Therefore, no advertising, no notable pros paid to use it

goober
11-09-2012, 06:59 AM
The current model of POG OS is not headlight enough imo. The 12+ oz I could deal with if it were like 10 pts headlight. Since I am mostly playing dubs these days, I find it hard in quick exchanges and reflex shots. I have not found the spin generation in the OS anything notable.

BlueB
11-09-2012, 09:45 AM
POG is great! It is not my primary racquet (O3 White is) but I often play with them. I've got 3x OS, 1x M and a Boron! I like OS more then M.
4-stripa and "straight shaft" are the best versions. I always ditch the leather for 2 overgrips only. It lightens the racquet by 10-15g and brings the ballance to about 4-5 HL, for more modern feel.

TheRed
11-09-2012, 09:58 AM
People don't use the POG because it's not bright, glittered with colors, and make you look like you're playing with some country's flag.

Not really. The POG OS is probably the best OS frame ever built but OS frames aren't that popular in general with the players racquet population anymore.
The POG mid, frankly, isn't that nice of a frame. It has a stiff but deader feel than the Wilson PS orig frames. It's spin potential was good, but nothing special. On top of that, it broke strings like crazy. Is it a pretty solid frame? Yes. Is it awesome? no. And no pros really used it.

El Diablo
11-09-2012, 10:00 AM
As there are many racquets available with specs approaching those of the mid, your question seems more to do with the OS. Simply stated, there is more power to be had with other racquets, and the OS was just never a really good serving racquet.

ahuimanu
11-09-2012, 10:02 AM
POGS are such great sticks for doubles, especially on the second serve but I ended giving them to friends who are beginners or others who used them for most of their playing career.

I find POGS are good in some areas (spin production, large face) and a liability in others (cumbersome in quick exchanges). I like a racquet that is quick and easy to manuever (I still hit with the younger guys) and generate head speed but I can see myself gravitating to the POG (or something similar) as I move into senior tennis.

Lastly, POGS are about 20 plus years old and are off the radar for most players today...

BlueB
11-09-2012, 10:12 AM
Oh, and about POG superstars of the past:
Agassi, Seles, Annacone, Chang, Sabatini, Nalby... Ferrer at some stage too, if I'm not mistaken...

Seth
11-09-2012, 10:19 AM
Oh, and about POG superstars of the past:
Agassi, Seles, Annacone, Chang, Sabatini, Nalby... Ferrer at some stage too, if I'm not mistaken...

Ferrero, not Ferrer. I think Ferrer used Wilson 6.1s and then transitioned to the Prince TT Warrior (just the PJ, at least).

BlueB
11-09-2012, 10:32 AM
Ferrero, not Ferrer. I think Ferrer used Wilson 6.1s and then transitioned to the Prince TT Warrior (just the PJ, at least).
Thanks for the correction!

sansaephanh
11-09-2012, 11:10 AM
I actually have a blacked out prince POG OS LB that was cut down to standard. Thing is a scalpel even with the OS... I had t ocut out the BBO cause it wrecked my wrist just looking at it.

Also a proud owner of a tw reproduced POG. the feel is absolutely tremendous. The depth control and the touch in the sweet spot is something that will forever stick into my mind. It reminds me of the Pro Staff Classic or PS85 with a sharper feel in the string bed. I directly relate that feeling to the overly brassy feel outside the sweet spot though.