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View Full Version : A loop takeback and racquet head speed


isilra
11-11-2012, 06:31 PM
It is always said that a loop takeback is better than a straight takeback due to creation of momentum and racquet head speed, also the power. But if i'm not totally blind, after turning the hip and torso, most of the looped forehands take a break and the racquet goes back again before it goes for the ball. Not sure if i can explain it but look at that video of rafa hitting;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQvbT8uEGk

After the racquet drops, he moves his torso and first the racquets stops the motion, then it goes back with the lag that body turn creates, and lastly go forward to hit the ball. That means all the momentum that created with a loop takeback is destroyed just before hitting the ball and a loop takeback has no difference compared to a straight one in the words of power and racquet head speed. Can somebody explain me that situation ??

psv255
11-11-2012, 07:02 PM
It seems the downward momentum of the racquet dropping is not very relevant here. The reason a loop is so commonly used is because it assures a good shoulder turn and good overall coil in prep for the shot. Also, any swing has a point where the racquet changes direction; it's almost like a whip cracking, where you need to quickly move the whip in the direction opposite its motion to create the desired acceleration and RHS. The momentum may have stopped momentarily, but what's more important is Nadal's stored energy, combined with the racquet being in the correct position, makes for a technically sound shot. Again, it forces a good load (the energy from which is later converted to RHS), puts the racquet in a good position, and often helps timing.

isilra
11-11-2012, 07:17 PM
It seems the downward momentum of the racquet dropping is not very relevant here. The reason a loop is so commonly used is because it assures a good shoulder turn and good overall coil in prep for the shot. Also, any swing has a point where the racquet changes direction; it's almost like a whip cracking, where you need to quickly move the whip in the direction opposite its motion to create the desired acceleration and RHS. The momentum may have stopped momentarily, but what's more important is Nadal's stored energy, combined with the racquet being in the correct position, makes for a technically sound shot. Again, it forces a good load (the energy from which is later converted to RHS), puts the racquet in a good position, and often helps timing.

So we can say the loop itself theorically doesn't increase the racquet head speed but the benefits of loop like racquet positioning, timing etc. does ?

psv255
11-11-2012, 07:26 PM
So we can say the loop itself theorically doesn't increase the racquet head speed but the benefits of loop like racquet positioning, timing etc. does ?

Yeah, that's the idea.

Take my musings with a grain of salt (and refer to the more experienced/knowledgeable posters here :) ), but this is what seems logical, as you correctly pointed out that the momentum of the racquet during the loop does come to a halt (passively, of course, Nadal doesn't consciously stop it while swinging).

SystemicAnomaly
11-12-2012, 04:27 AM
It is always said that a loop takeback is better than a straight takeback due to creation of momentum and racquet head speed, also the power. But if i'm not totally blind, after turning the hip and torso, most of the looped forehands take a break and the racquet goes back again before it goes for the ball. Not sure if i can explain it but look at that video of rafa hitting;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQvbT8uEGk

After the racquet drops, he moves his torso and first the racquets stops the motion, then it goes back with the lag that body turn creates, and lastly go forward to hit the ball. That means all the momentum that created with a loop takeback is destroyed just before hitting the ball and a loop takeback has no difference compared to a straight one in the words of power and racquet head speed. Can somebody explain me that situation ??

No the momentum is not destroyed as you put it. The racquet movement never really stops moving -- the motion is not discontinuous -- the racquet head drop is translated/converted into other actions of the forearm (rotation), arm and other body parts. The momentum is used to quickly change the orientation of the racquet and the direction of its motion. Look at the sequence more carefully and you should be able to pick up these actions/interactions.
.

LeeD
11-12-2012, 09:20 AM
RHS. Loop for easier and more RHS.
Straight for more control and precision.
Look at your serve, or better, your overhead. Overhead, if you're tentative, you shorten the loop, almost to a high volley stroke. If you're confident, full loop like a serve.
Think of this. Your serve would be more precise if you laid your wrist back, held a JayBerger early trophy, and hit the ball. It would have less power.