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ED7
11-18-2012, 06:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5csE9UD1CU&feature=relmfu

I just watched this video and it contradicts everything I've learned about utilizing the 1HBH in tennis, I haven't tried this particular way of hitting yet but it seems like everything this guy teaches is the exact opposite of what is normally taught. Anyone have any experience with hitting the backhand like this?

boramiNYC
11-18-2012, 06:45 PM
his instruction in that clip is indeed terrible. better not do what he says. it's weight transfer forward, rotation with arm extension and supination, not pulling back and transferring weight backward. he should just focus on refining the modern fh. and guga certainly do not transfer weight backward.

SFrazeur
11-18-2012, 07:50 PM
My problem with MTM/Wegner is he cannot tell the difference between Cause and Effect. Falling back is an effect caused by forward and upward acceleration. Wegner is putting the (cliche) cart before the horse here. If Wegner is intending for a player to let their body follow or flow with the acceleration of the motion then that is correct.

-SF

sureshs
11-18-2012, 09:34 PM
I sometimes hit like he shows in the video, when the ball is trying to jam me. It is a good thing to have in your stroke repertoire, especially if you a lazy guy like me.

sureshs
11-18-2012, 09:37 PM
He himself is not quite transferring weight backwards on the balls which are not jamming him.

Very odd video.

sureshs
11-18-2012, 09:40 PM
his instruction in that clip is indeed terrible. better not do what he says. it's weight transfer forward, rotation with arm extension and supination, not pulling back and transferring weight backward. he should just focus on refining the modern fh. and guga certainly do not transfer weight backward.

He was wise not to take the advice.

Cheetah
11-18-2012, 09:46 PM
That was weird. I can't imagine mtm coaches teach the 1hbh that way.

Roforot
11-19-2012, 04:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5csE9UD1CU&feature=relmfu

I just watched this video and it contradicts everything I've learned about utilizing the 1HBH in tennis, I haven't tried this particular way of hitting yet but it seems like everything this guy teaches is the exact opposite of what is normally taught. Anyone have any experience with hitting the backhand like this?

Thanks. I have pulled back when hitting a topspin lob, but this was under duress, and my front foot would actually fall back. I've seen players do this more often on the FH side...

His suggestion for pulling back seems a little less extreme. Feet are staying in position and he's pulling back w/ the torso/body. I'd like to think about it more to see how he's pulling back before trying it myself. I'm hesitant to do anything to mess up my BH which I feel I'm hitting well. However, the circumstances he talks about (being rushed to hit the ball or hitting on the rise) do break down my stroke.

sureshs
11-19-2012, 06:23 AM
That was weird. I can't imagine mtm coaches teach the 1hbh that way.

I don't think they do. I think they use the certification as an extra piece of paper to try to set themselves apart from the pack. A coach teaching 1HBH this way would be booed off the clubs.

TennisCJC
11-19-2012, 07:53 AM
I like Oscar but sometimes I think he stresses certain elements of a stroke just to be a contrarian. There is an element of backward feel in the stroke but no, you do not pull back on a 1 HBH or a 2 HBH or a FH as Oscar teaches. You rotate into the contact point. There is an element of stopping and/or pulling backward to stop from over rotating. But, this is after you have transferred weight forward and rotated forward. Basically, you are stopping the off side (back foot/hip) in order to speed up the front side (front shoulder and arm). You do this on almost all tennis strokes in my view.

sureshs
11-19-2012, 08:22 AM
I like Oscar but sometimes I think he stresses certain elements of a stroke just to be a contrarian.

Exactly. That is why he himself does not do it all the time. He is always preoccupied with trying to find something wrong about traditional teaching, and in that process he overthinks simple situations and tries to create a philosophy out of special cases.

psv255
11-19-2012, 08:32 AM
I agree with sureshs and CJC -- he over-stresses a part of the stroke that comes as a result of proper advice, and what may seem like a novel idea is really his own, somewhat misguided repackaging of conventional instruction.
This is a "fix" that may help people who over-rotate, but it shouldn't be something to give one's undivided attention to.

Ash_Smith
11-19-2012, 08:32 AM
The contrarian thing as far as I can see is that in the video he starts off talking about moving weight from front foot to back foot and demonstrates that happening during the swing. Then when hitting, he hits with his weight on the front foot on all but one ball, which he slaps the hell out of!

I'm not really sure how to take this.

sureshs
11-19-2012, 08:46 AM
The contrarian thing as far as I can see is that in the video he starts off talking about moving weight from front foot to back foot and demonstrates that happening during the swing. Then when hitting, he hits with his weight on the front foot on all but one ball, which he slaps the hell out of!

I'm not really sure how to take this.

He was on the tour - he knows how to hit a hard ball. I too was impressed with his strength. It is his teaching that is funny .......

5263
11-19-2012, 08:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBRallEByc

sureshs
11-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Now it is going to be lots of fun

psv255
11-19-2012, 09:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBRallEByc

I see a combination of lifting with the legs and controlled rotation using the non-hitting arm; Reeshar's weight does move back, but he isn't consciously shifting his weight from front to back, is he? It feels more like a movement that counters his racquet and arm coming around his body.

5263
11-19-2012, 09:24 AM
Reeshar's weight does move back, but he isn't consciously shifting his weight from front to back, is he?

Imo it is very important for a touring pro to develop his technique till it is
as you suggest, "unconscious" or does not need to be conscious.
Imo we should also work to that end as well.

Ash_Smith
11-19-2012, 09:29 AM
5263 - what are we meant to be seeing there? Gasquet isn't doing what Oscar demo'd at the beginning of his video as the teaching point.

Plus, isn't it you that usually points out when others post a video as an example that what players do in practice isn't necessarily what they do in matchplay! :D

5263
11-19-2012, 09:36 AM
5263 - what are we meant to be seeing there? Gasquet isn't doing what Oscar demo'd at the beginning of his video as the teaching point.

Plus, isn't it you that usually points out when others post a video as an example that what players do in practice isn't necessarily what they do in matchplay! :D

It looks like what I'm hearing from Oscar; Maybe you have a different take on the msg.

Yes, I've said often warmup is not what they do in matchplay, but practice may be different.
That just happened to be the 1st vid I pulled up, and
it showed the issues quite well imo. I pulled up Gasquet due to in my minds eye of the
few times I've seen him play, I felt he used this
aspect of the Bh technique.
Do you see a problem with his Bh in that vid?

charliefedererer
11-19-2012, 09:37 AM
Is Oscar's backhand video only to explain what to do on a 1HBH when jammed with a serve to the body, or a hard volley at your feet when you are near the service line?

In that case, he probably has a point.

Otherwise, use your feet to set get into the classic closed stance with weight transfer from the back to front foot to rip your 1HBH like Gasquet in the video posted by 5263, or this following video of Tommy Haas practicing moving his feet to hit great backhand after backhand:
07 26 09 Tommy Haas practicing backhand at 2009 LA tennis Open with his coach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONWFjn7RNUk



[Martina Hingis often let her great confidence in herself broach on arrogance. After a match, a tennis commentator asked her what was the secret to her backhand being so effective that day. "Which one?" she asked. "You know I have at least 8 backhands."
We don't need 8 backhands - but variations on the backhand, just like the forehand, are necessary in match play when forced into an uncomfortable position where a textbook shot just can be executed.]

kopfan
11-19-2012, 09:38 AM
This should hit like a moonball and create natural spin to get the ball into the deep base. Very defensive way of hitting but effective against power hitter to neutralize the fast heavy ball. If you are able to hit into the deep corner, the ball will cause attacking baseliner lots of problem. A good defense weapon to have. I use it when i am standing too close at the baseline while a fast ball come in deep. Nadal use it against big hitter as well. Very useful to turn defence into attacker.

5263
11-19-2012, 09:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABldyqDQaS8

SFrazeur
11-19-2012, 09:42 AM
All I see is forward and upward acceleration combined with recovering.

-SF

Geology_Rocks!
11-19-2012, 09:48 AM
Funny how he talks about one thing but demonstrates another.

He talking about Guga is at least suspicious.

Migelowsky
11-19-2012, 10:13 AM
He couldn´t have a better forward weight transfer.
Look at his right foot stepping on the gas pedal.
What makes him look going backwards is because his
followthrough is complete and the racquet continues all
the way back.
http://fotos.subefotos.com/200e3e85a11764ae9b570565eb7307f2o.jpg

chico9166
11-19-2012, 10:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5csE9UD1CU&feature=relmfu

I just watched this video and it contradicts everything I've learned about utilizing the 1HBH in tennis, I haven't tried this particular way of hitting yet but it seems like everything this guy teaches is the exact opposite of what is normally taught. Anyone have any experience with hitting the backhand like this?

How can the weight transfer backwards when the the back foot actually comes up off the ground or up on the toe?

psv255
11-19-2012, 10:42 AM
Imo it is very important for a touring pro to develop his technique till it is
as you suggest, "unconscious" or does not need to be conscious.
Imo we should also work to that end as well.

Ah, sorry, I think the word I was looking for was "deliberate," not conscious.
Imo, to better replicate what Oscar's trying to demonstrate, one must not think to linearly shift one's weight on the back foot, but to start resisting the arm and racquet from rotating the upper body right before contact. While I believe I understand what Wegner was trying to demonstrate, what he is saying and what he is showing in the video provided by the OP are two different things.

chico9166
11-19-2012, 10:47 AM
Ah, sorry, I think the word I was looking for was "deliberate," not conscious.
Imo, to better replicate what Oscar's trying to demonstrate, one must not think to linearly shift one's weight on the back foot, but to start resisting the arm and racquet from rotating the upper body right before contact. While I believe I understand what Wegner was trying to demonstrate, what he is saying and what he is showing in the video provided by the OP are two different things.

This is quite accurate. The left leg, in many instances, actually works in a "kick back" fashion (into a more closed position) to counter over rotation. It actually comes up off the ground, so we know definatively that the weight distribution at impact is off the front foot. Not transfering from front to back. Oscar can't even demonstrate his point.....

5263
11-19-2012, 10:55 AM
what he is saying and what he is showing in the video provided by the OP are two different things.

I can see that is you take on it, but to me, it is quite clear what he is saying
along with his demo. He makes his point further with the demo of holding the
racket by the end, then swinging with a lift and pull slightly back. It is also
clear to me how to use that in a stroke technique.

Everybody is not going to get it. That is not an insult, just like it is no insult to
me that I don't get the comments by those who don't see this use of wt shift.
Many have commented how they don't see how cracking a whip relates to strokes.
We all perceive in our own fashion. Proofs in geometry are hard or impossible for
some to see, but imo that does not make them incorrect.

Ash_Smith
11-19-2012, 11:00 AM
I can see that is you take on it, but to me, it is quite clear what he is saying
along with his demo.

It is perfectly clear what he is saying and demo'ing - he just then doesn't do it when he hits! :D

The concept he is trying to get across may well be perfectly valid, but what demo's he doesn't do and what he does is probably the main teaching point that he is trying to get across in the first place.

P.S. Don't take this as purely directed because it's Oscar - I would happily point it out if it were any coach!

5263
11-19-2012, 11:00 AM
the weight distribution at impact is off the front foot.....

What does "Off the front foot" mean to you?

maverick66
11-19-2012, 11:01 AM
I agree with those that he is saying something just to be controversial. There is no way anyone is teaching players to fall back on their strokes and being successful at it. You would leave so many balls short and also when your weight is being pulled on way or another you lose balance which will result in inconsistent strokes.

There are many different stances and strokes on tour but they all hit in balance most of the time. Oscar seems to take the 5% of caught off balance shots that guys hit when in trouble and make that his talking points.

That kinda ignores 95% of what is actually happening out there. I dont know if he doesnt get it or is it trying to be different for marketing but I have feeling this thread is gonna be a lot of yes it does no it doesnt.

5263
11-19-2012, 11:07 AM
It is perfectly clear what he is saying and demo'ing - he just then doesn't do it when he hits! :D

The concept he is trying to get across may well be perfectly valid, but what demo's he doesn't do and what he does is probably the main teaching point that he is trying to get across in the first place.

P.S. Don't take this as purely directed because it's Oscar - I would happily point it out if it were any coach!

Your comments are very fair if that is what you see.
I can only guess that maybe he has adjusted to show it subtle due to the neg
feedback of when he showed this with big exaggeration previously.
What I noticed where that some of the feeds were way less than ideal...leading
to some compensations imo.

For better or worse, he doesn't go out there and shoot this thing 20 times to
get it just so. I've been there on some of the shoots. They talk about what
they will do, then go shoot the vid. What you get is much like if you were there
live. Not sure that is the best in this case or most cases.

sureshs
11-19-2012, 11:51 AM
I don't think it is a matter of shooting the video - what he is advising is wrong. If we took away the video and kept only his words, it would still be wrong.

TennisCJC
11-19-2012, 11:57 AM
I see Re-chard and Guga stepping in on their front foot big time, rotating into contact but not letting the hips go fully open, then I see a bit of backward pull back on the follow-thru to counteract the rotation. I do not see them pulling back before contact or hitting while pulling back.

Cheetah
11-19-2012, 12:02 PM
What I see initially is that guga and gasquet are transferring weight forward and you can see the weight go their front foot.. then they are kind of straightening up or halting that weight transfer maybe to maintain balance or something or maybe it is just sort of an illusion due to the angle of the torso and the outward pointing hip plus the rotation so it makes it seem like they could be pulling back? Idk. not sure.

What is Oscar/MTM saying would be the purpose/benefit of pulling back?

psv255
11-19-2012, 12:19 PM
What is Oscar/MTM saying would be the purpose/benefit of pulling back?

I would think this can add RHS through added rot. acceleration, which you can then convert into more spin or more power, whichever applies. This can also maybe help those who are moving too far forward after contact.

It's something many don't focus on, but it's definitely valid, a valuable tip, and probably helps people with specific problems. But to make it a fundamental element in the 1hbh might be going too far.

psv255
11-19-2012, 12:40 PM
I can see that is you take on it, but to me, it is quite clear what he is saying
along with his demo. He makes his point further with the demo of holding the
racket by the end, then swinging with a lift and pull slightly back. It is also
clear to me how to use that in a stroke technique.

It's a great thing to try for sure, I'll be trying the things I took away from it next time I play. It's clear what he wants to convey, but I feel like many people unfamiliar with the nuances of a 1hbh and the sources of developing RHS will be confused.

Personally, I found this video very helpful in how to be more balanced through the shot.
MTM brings something to the table, that's for sure :wink:

5263
11-19-2012, 02:11 PM
It's a great thing to try for sure, I'll be trying the things I took away from it next time I play. It's clear what he wants to convey, but I feel like many people unfamiliar with the nuances of a 1hbh and the sources of developing RHS will be confused.
I agree.


Personally, I found this video very helpful in how to be more balanced through the shot.
MTM brings something to the table, that's for sure :wink:
I think your point about balance is key.

J011yroger
11-19-2012, 04:58 PM
I have an idea.

Why doesn't everyone post a video of their 1hbh and explain how they hit it so that we can see the results of your philosophy, and know that you are not just parroting crap you read somewhere else?

J

WildVolley
11-19-2012, 06:42 PM
Even if I don't agree with many of his theories, I find Wegner's stuff intriguing. Seems to me he's exaggerating things he thinks he sees.

Rather than stepping back, I think that more power is often generated by pushing off the front leg to transfer speed to the racket face. My own intuition on this is that by pushing off the front foot, what is really happening is that the admittedly slight hip rotation is being quickly stopped in order to allow the momentum to be transferred to the shoulder and the racket head.

So if I were to put Oscar's teaching into my own words, it would be to step forward into the ball into the closed stance with the body's momentum going forward and then to press back with the front leg hard just prior to impact. This braking motion allows the hips to stop more rapidly in order to transfer pace the arm and racket head. In the fraction of a second prior to impact, more racket head speed is generated by stopping that lower body than by attempting to speed it up.

Anyone else think this is what Oscar is really trying to say?

psv255
11-19-2012, 06:55 PM
Even if I don't agree with many of his theories, I find Wegner's stuff intriguing. Seems to me he's exaggerating things he thinks he sees.

Rather than stepping back, I think that more power is often generated by pushing off the front leg to transfer speed to the racket face. My own intuition on this is that by pushing off the front foot, what is really happening is that the admittedly slight hip rotation is being quickly stopped in order to allow the momentum to be transferred to the shoulder and the racket head.

So if I were to put Oscar's teaching into my own words, it would be to step forward into the ball into the closed stance with the body's momentum going forward and then to press back with the front leg hard just prior to impact. This braking motion allows the hips to stop more rapidly in order to transfer pace the arm and racket head. In the fraction of a second prior to impact, more racket head speed is generated by stopping that lower body than by attempting to speed it up.

Anyone else think this is what Oscar is really trying to say?

+1
Yes, and very well phrased to boot! The last-minute resistance to further rotation transfers the momentum to arm and racquet, adding RHS. It may seem like you're moving back, but it's really more of a pushing motion as a result of which one straightens out/lifts up.

tlm
11-19-2012, 08:29 PM
Even if I don't agree with many of his theories, I find Wegner's stuff intriguing. Seems to me he's exaggerating things he thinks he sees.

Rather than stepping back, I think that more power is often generated by pushing off the front leg to transfer speed to the racket face. My own intuition on this is that by pushing off the front foot, what is really happening is that the admittedly slight hip rotation is being quickly stopped in order to allow the momentum to be transferred to the shoulder and the racket head.

So if I were to put Oscar's teaching into my own words, it would be to step forward into the ball into the closed stance with the body's momentum going forward and then to press back with the front leg hard just prior to impact. This braking motion allows the hips to stop more rapidly in order to transfer pace the arm and racket head. In the fraction of a second prior to impact, more racket head speed is generated by stopping that lower body than by attempting to speed it up.

Anyone else think this is what Oscar is really trying to say?


Exactly I have noticed before that Oscar does exaggerate while trying to teach a technique. Sometimes teachers use mental images that are extreme or not necessarily exactly what really happens but it can still be very helpful in learning something new.

Bobby Jr
11-19-2012, 08:55 PM
That backhand being hit in the first video is so ********ly crap it's almost not even worth talking about it. His whole 'falling back' thing is utter nonsense and you'd only see it on people who've (as someone said earlier) been jammed.

Mountain Ghost
11-19-2012, 09:51 PM
I wouldn't say stay down either, but for a completely different reason than what Oscar is saying ... and that is so the hitting arm shoulder is far enough up and away from the ball so the rigid and straight arm unit can rotate out (supinate). I often tell 1HBH students who overly bend at the waist, or who lead with their elbow too much, to fall backwards on a number of feeds so they are able to hit "out" more and aren't forced to swing so much across their bodies early in the forward stroke.

As for trying to get "lift" from a sudden shoulder rise, as Oscar seems to be advocating, I would advise against thinking that way. I think instability is a primary issue with most players in the process of developing a 1HBH, and the control provided by a steady hitting shoulder is much more important to the evolution of the stroke than any ("mythical") lift or power that might be gained.

MG

treblings
11-20-2012, 03:57 AM
the one shot in my game that lacks consistency is the one-handed topspin bh. haven´t used it much for a number of years due to injury and mobility reasons.
Oscars tip abot getting the weight on the back foot helped me. i now realize it is probably because it helped me to find better balance and therefore being able to use more of my upper body

5263
11-20-2012, 05:23 AM
the one shot in my game that lacks consistency is the one-handed topspin bh. haven´t used it much for a number of years due to injury and mobility reasons.
Oscars tip abot getting the weight on the back foot helped me. i now realize it is probably because it helped me to find better balance and therefore being able to use more of my upper body

yes, well said.
Not sure were the detractors come up with things like "falling" back and "sudden"
shoulder movement. I went back and watched the whole vid again and didn't see
those words or even type comments from Oscar.
Imo this vid is showing how to do on the Bh, what we do on the Fh, where we
put more wt on the rt foot, then lift and push back to balance between the feet.
It facilitates controllable power, recovery and balance for those who can get the
concept.

treblings
11-20-2012, 05:52 AM
yes, well said.
Not sure were the detractors come up with things like "falling" back and "sudden"
shoulder movement. I went back and watched the whole vid again and didn't see
those words or even type comments from Oscar.
Imo this vid is showing how to do on the Bh, what we do on the Fh, where we
put more wt on the rt foot, then lift and push back to balance between the feet.
It facilitates controllable power, recovery and balance for those who can get the
concept.

i felt like i had to leave a comment, because i saw that very video and it helped me.give credit where it´s due
what you want to do with something like that, is try it out yourself on the court and test it.
if it doesn´t help, forget it.
if it helps, it´s interesting to figure out why it helped. because understanding why something works, helps you to understand the strengths and weaknesses in your game better
what doesn´t help is critizising something without testing it.
with the words ´mtm´and ´oscar wegner´ in the title, you can be sure of two things.
one, it will be critizised by some just because it is Wegner
two, sooner or later the thread will be deleted:)

sureshs
11-20-2012, 07:25 AM
Even if I don't agree with many of his theories, I find Wegner's stuff intriguing. Seems to me he's exaggerating things he thinks he sees.

Rather than stepping back, I think that more power is often generated by pushing off the front leg to transfer speed to the racket face. My own intuition on this is that by pushing off the front foot, what is really happening is that the admittedly slight hip rotation is being quickly stopped in order to allow the momentum to be transferred to the shoulder and the racket head.

So if I were to put Oscar's teaching into my own words, it would be to step forward into the ball into the closed stance with the body's momentum going forward and then to press back with the front leg hard just prior to impact. This braking motion allows the hips to stop more rapidly in order to transfer pace the arm and racket head. In the fraction of a second prior to impact, more racket head speed is generated by stopping that lower body than by attempting to speed it up.

Anyone else think this is what Oscar is really trying to say?

No, he is just plain wrong as usual.

He is looking for anything to show that he has an original idea, when he hasn't.

We are the ones who think maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt, and start attributing our ideas to him. In this video, he did not say that it was a special case when you are being jammed, he did not say that it was an exaggeration to make a point, and he could not bring himself to follow his own advice as it is so wrong.

FrisbeeFool
11-20-2012, 12:33 PM
The part of the video that makes sense is when he says this technique is useful when the ball is on top of you and you need more space.

On many/most balls this won't be necessary is you've prepared early. But we all know Oscar doesn't believe in early preparation.

He likes to run his mouth about how he taught Guga the one-handed backhand. From what I've seen from other sources, Larry Passos was Guga's personal coach, who taught him the one hander. Oscar probably taught clinics where Guga was there. As usual, Oscar is exaggerating his connection to a real player, and taking credit for someone else's hard work.

sureshs
11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
arche3: I saw your post before it was deleted. It is good to know that you now agree with me.

FrisbeeFool
11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
In half of his videos he has someone else standing there telling him how great and innovative his techniques are. It's more infomercial than real tennis instruction.

bhupaes
11-20-2012, 12:57 PM
yes, well said.
Not sure were the detractors come up with things like "falling" back and "sudden"
shoulder movement. I went back and watched the whole vid again and didn't see
those words or even type comments from Oscar.
Imo this vid is showing how to do on the Bh, what we do on the Fh, where we
put more wt on the rt foot, then lift and push back to balance between the feet.
It facilitates controllable power, recovery and balance for those who can get the
concept.

Biomechanically speaking, I believe this is a loading mechanism that everyone probably exploits instinctively, and Oscar simply was observant enough to notice this happening. The pushing up or back off the front foot that precedes or coincides with the forward swing will activate the stretch-contraction reflex in the shoulder, providing explosive power for the forward swing. This won't happen if there is no braking effect and the body just keeps moving forward through the stroke. I myself hit with a two-hander, but I realized I was doing something similar for the slice backhand and sometimes for volleys. J-Mac's volleys where he pushes up at contact (in a not so text-book way) may be exploiting a similar mechanism... isn't tennis wonderful! :)

Geology_Rocks!
11-20-2012, 12:57 PM
Larri tought Guga his BH.

Here is another student from his academy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7SOL_itjU

IMO very similar to Guga's BH.

sureshs
11-20-2012, 01:01 PM
Larri tought Guga his BH.

Here is another student from his academy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7SOL_itjU

IMO very similar to Guga's BH.

Guga learnt from the right person, otherwise he would be leaning back on his backhand and hitting weak shots, and we would have never heard of him.

treblings
11-20-2012, 01:33 PM
arche3: I saw your post before it was deleted. It is good to know that you now agree with me.

was it deleted because he agreed with you???:-?

boramiNYC
11-20-2012, 01:45 PM
no bhupaes, biomechanically Oscars approach is so fundamentally off the mark it'll waste too much useless typing to address thoroughly.

However in short, the push off from the front leg is not a requirement for ssc of the shoulder. ssc of shoulder can be activated by a number of ways even with the front leg fully extended and supporting the whole body weight. the main problem with not having the weight on the front foot is there is no stopping the torso rotation near the contact point causing the opening up the shoulder and over rotating.

I have no motive to discredit Oscar, really I don't care, but the way mtmers are willing to have their own eyes and minds prejudiced by something other than quality tennis instruction is pretty disappointing to say the least.

FrisbeeFool
11-20-2012, 02:11 PM
There's a good video interview with Larri Passos, on tennisplayer.net where he talks about teaching Guga the one-hander.

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 02:12 PM
I have an idea.

Why doesn't everyone post a video of their 1hbh and explain how they hit it so that we can see the results of your philosophy, and know that you are not just parroting crap you read somewhere else?

J

Anyone?

Bueller?

J

psv255
11-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Anyone?

Bueller?

J

I have a couple backhands in this vid (also posted elsewhere, I apologize).
I remember I was focusing on lifting upward/ (as opposed to pulling back) as I was swinging forward. This is the result.
http://youtu.be/QzqP71zyvWU

sureshs
11-20-2012, 02:34 PM
no bhupaes, biomechanically Oscars approach is so fundamentally off the mark it'll waste too much useless typing to address thoroughly.

However in short, the push off from the front leg is not a requirement for ssc of the shoulder. ssc of shoulder can be activated by a number of ways even with the front leg fully extended and supporting the whole body weight. the main problem with not having the weight on the front foot is there is no stopping the torso rotation near the contact point causing the opening up the shoulder and over rotating.

I have no motive to discredit Oscar, really I don't care, but the way mtmers are willing to have their own eyes and minds prejudiced by something other than quality tennis instruction is pretty disappointing to say the least.

Very sad. They come up with weird explanations trying to see whether even a thousandth of what he said can be remotely correct. They make up explanations on his behalf because they just cannot face up to the facts.

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 02:59 PM
I have a couple backhands in this vid (also posted elsewhere, I apologize).
I remember I was focusing on lifting upward/ (as opposed to pulling back) as I was swinging forward. This is the result.
http://youtu.be/QzqP71zyvWU

I understand that you have to moderate a bit against the wall, but it looks to me as if you have more natural snap in your topspin backhand than your forehand.

So there is one decent looking backhand with some pop in it for a proponent of MTM, who will step up for traditional instruction and show the products of that?

Come on people, don't be scared.

Show me the money!

J

bhupaes
11-20-2012, 03:05 PM
no bhupaes, biomechanically Oscars approach is so fundamentally off the mark it'll waste too much useless typing to address thoroughly.

However in short, the push off from the front leg is not a requirement for ssc of the shoulder. ssc of shoulder can be activated by a number of ways even with the front leg fully extended and supporting the whole body weight. the main problem with not having the weight on the front foot is there is no stopping the torso rotation near the contact point causing the opening up the shoulder and over rotating.

The push off the front foot definitely enhances the explosive effect - and I mean the push off in the way Guga and Gasquet do it. I agree that hip and upper body rotation are the primary movements in the 1HBH. IMO, the braking effect due to the "push back" enhances the explosiveness. It doesn't mean that the player will actually move backwards, especially if the player has to run forwards to execute the backhand. Of course, if one is illustrating the mechanism by hitting hand fed balls from a fixed spot, there may be a noticeable tendency to move back.

I have no motive to discredit Oscar, really I don't care, but the way mtmers are willing to have their own eyes and minds prejudiced by something other than quality tennis instruction is pretty disappointing to say the least.

Sure, you are entitled to your views, and as gentlemen, we can agree to disagree. :) Personally, I have benefited a lot from Oscar's teachings. I find his insights absolutely fascinating, since it opens up a way of looking at the game that is unique and rewarding.

julian
11-20-2012, 03:12 PM
I have an idea.

Why doesn't everyone post a video of their 1hbh and explain how they hit it so that we can see the results of your philosophy, and know that you are not just parroting crap you read somewhere else?

J
It should be a separate thread.
Next stage would be discuss forehand and serve by MTM.
Next we will have a claim about half million clicks

JW10S
11-20-2012, 03:17 PM
So there is one decent looking backhand with some pop in it for a proponent of MTM, who will step up for traditional instruction and show the products of that?


You too have fallen for the MTM propoganda. According to them it's either MTM or it's traditional. That's wrong. There is such thing as modern instruction that uses none of MTM's tenets.

Just saw this, and the original vid is just too silly to even comment on...

psv255
11-20-2012, 03:19 PM
So there is one decent looking backhand with some pop in it for a proponent of MTM, who will step up for traditional instruction and show the products of that?

Come on people, don't be scared.

Show me the money!

J
Jo11y, with all due respect, i'm not a proponent of mtm :) i believe that it is an occasionally valuable resource for specfic groups of tennis players and only in very specific cases. I learned my bh with more traditional concepts.

5263
11-20-2012, 03:19 PM
There's a good video interview with Larri Passos, on tennisplayer.net where he talks about teaching Guga the one-hander.

Is that the one where he states how good Guga was when he first met him at
age 14 and convinced the parents he could make a living playing tennis?

sureshs
11-20-2012, 03:20 PM
Jolly has not fallen for anything. He is a high-level player who likes to pull everyone's legs.

5263
11-20-2012, 03:23 PM
According to them it's either MTM or it's traditional. That's wrong.

Yes it's wrong and We don't say it. If you want to speak for MTM, it would help
to get it right.
Probably better to stick to what you know.

dennis10is
11-20-2012, 03:36 PM
I understand that you have to moderate a bit against the wall, but it looks to me as if you have more natural snap in your topspin backhand than your forehand.

So there is one decent looking backhand with some pop in it for a proponent of MTM, who will step up for traditional instruction and show the products of that?

Come on people, don't be scared.

Show me the money!

J

I'm laughing my *** off watching Oscar demonstrate. As a 1.0 I don't feel I'm qualified to comment but from my lowly position, I find his strokes hilarious. Of course, much worthier tennis players will come along to comment. So, as a right hander, the backhand is when you hit the ball on your left side? After 30 years I still get the two strokes confused.

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 03:39 PM
You too have fallen for the MTM propoganda. According to them it's either MTM or it's traditional. That's wrong. There is such thing as modern instruction that uses none of MTM's tenets.

Just saw this, and the original vid is just too silly to even comment on...

I wouldn't say that.

I am not particularly gung-ho on anybody's instruction. I do however try to see things from other points of view.

My goal is to look and listen with an open mind, and see if anything makes sense, or I like anything.

I have found that it is difficult to learn if all you do is try to convince people that you are right.

J

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 03:43 PM
Jo11y, with all due respect, i'm not a proponent of mtm :) i believe that it is an occasionally valuable resource for specfic groups of tennis players and only in very specific cases. I learned my bh with more traditional concepts.

Ok, so you are likely in the same boat as I.

I have run into a handful of people who could seriously benefit from listening to what Wegner preaches, but for the most part think it would be counter productive to most who are looking to progress to something more than intermediate recreational level.

J

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 03:44 PM
Jolly has not fallen for anything. He is a high-level player who likes to pull everyone's legs.

;)

J

sureshs
11-20-2012, 03:54 PM
Ok, so you are likely in the same boat as I.

I have run into a handful of people who could seriously benefit from listening to what Wegner preaches, but for the most part think it would be counter productive to most who are looking to progress to something more than intermediate recreational level.

J

That may be true for some of his other tips, but this backhand video is wrong for every level.

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 04:00 PM
That may be true for some of his other tips, but this backhand video is wrong for every level.

Show me the money!

J

arche3
11-20-2012, 04:30 PM
was it deleted because he agreed with you???:-?

Ha! yes. The TTW mods knew that if it were made public there would be mass hysteria. In my moment of weakness I posted what should be never said...

Cheetah
11-20-2012, 05:18 PM
Biomechanically speaking, I believe this is a loading mechanism that everyone probably exploits instinctively, and Oscar simply was observant enough to notice this happening. The pushing up or back off the front foot that precedes or coincides with the forward swing will activate the stretch-contraction reflex in the shoulder, providing explosive power for the forward swing.

While we understand what you are saying here, this part is not technically correct.
No ssc action would be contributing to power while pulling back on a 1hbh. ssc is triggered by a stretch in one opposite direction and then a release in the opposite direction.

bhupaes
11-20-2012, 07:19 PM
While we understand what you are saying here, this part is not technically correct.
No ssc action would be contributing to power while pulling back on a 1hbh. ssc is triggered by a stretch in one opposite direction and then a release in the opposite direction.

You are right about that - I used the incorrect technical term to describe what's going on (and was waiting for someone to point it out after posting, ha ha). I understand now (after some shadow 1hbh swings) the feeling of how this push contributes to power - mainly momentum transfer that enhances the contraction part, I am guessing.

sureshs
11-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Oscar says the same thing on his website:

After you have this movement well grooved in, get someone to toss gentle balls to your backhand. Lift the ball well over the net and finish all the way, perhaps exaggerating the lift, and getting your balance by pulling away from the ball and up. Especially if you are too close to the ball, pulling back will give you plenty of room to swing, with your arm extending towards the target and then across towards the right.

This type movement combination has been shunned by conventional tennis teaching, that tells you to step forward into the hit and stay down. This, unfortunately, destroys the natural acceleration of the arm. Try it both ways, and you will notice the difference.


I have a feeling this is again one of those legacy items from the transition period. In the wood era, it was necessary to stay down and step into the ball to get any meaningful power. Today, rackets are more powerful, and also, as Federer discovered against Nadal, high-bouncing slow balls are common to the backhand even on grass and hard courts. So, while there is a classic video of Federer with his back foot almost kneeling on the ground, he also hits backhands in a more upright position. So it is no longer necessary to adhere to the stay down advice very strictly. He could have just said that, instead of saying the other things like going backward. He confuses the finish which will result in the body rising with a backward movement of the body during the hit, similar to the confusion on the forehand about pulling away before impact instead of the reality of finishing the swing after hitting solidly through the ball.

Pickle9
11-20-2012, 09:19 PM
Show me the money!

J

Oh, so this is what that email is about lol.

So the idea is to hit a tennis ball forward faster/harder/heavier/whatever by moving backwards? I don't claim to be able to hit a ball with anything to be confused with competency... but... huh? Am I missing something?

i'm taking my technically perfect 2hbh and hiding under the bed until this blows over.

5263
11-20-2012, 09:29 PM
He confuses the finish which will result in the body rising with a backward movement of the body during the hit, similar to the confusion on the forehand about pulling away before impact instead of the reality of finishing the swing after hitting solidly through the ball.

He's not the one confused on this.
At least you see the result of the pull up and back.

J011yroger
11-20-2012, 09:35 PM
i'm taking my technically perfect 2hbh and hiding under the bed until this blows over.

That's what she said.

J

Pickle9
11-21-2012, 05:03 AM
That's what she said.

J

i like my tea how i like my women... tied to the bed with a feather boa.

psv255
11-21-2012, 05:16 AM
Now it is going to be lots of fun

You called it sureshs :)

Sorry, I must be missing something here, being new and all -- why are TT admins deleting posts/threads related to MTM/Wegner? Is it purely based on marketing, the fact that it's a form of "product review" on a forum?

J011yroger
11-21-2012, 06:19 AM
i like my tea how i like my women... tied to the bed with a feather boa.

And that was only my 2nd best line of the night...

J

treblings
11-21-2012, 06:48 AM
You called it sureshs :)

Sorry, I must be missing something here, being new and all -- why are TT admins deleting posts/threads related to MTM/Wegner? Is it purely based on marketing, the fact that it's a form of "product review" on a forum?

most of it is probably based on the fact that the arguments tend to become heated and personal. what sureshs likes to call fun, i guess

why mtm, why wegner? the controversy about Oscar Wegner and his teaching goes on for a long time now, way before i joined tt
some of what he teaches is different from mainstream, the video about the
1HBH being proof of that i would say
also, he seems to be quite confident about what he contributed to modern tennis teaching, being a pioneer of teaching how the pros play,etc.
that doesn´t sit well with some posters

sureshs
11-21-2012, 07:24 AM
You called it sureshs :)

Sorry, I must be missing something here, being new and all -- why are TT admins deleting posts/threads related to MTM/Wegner? Is it purely based on marketing, the fact that it's a form of "product review" on a forum?

I don't know. I think it has more to do with the tone or nature of some of the threads or posts.

5263
11-21-2012, 08:08 AM
why mtm, why wegner? the controversy about Oscar Wegner and his teaching goes on for a long time now, way before i joined tt
some of what he teaches is different from mainstream, the video about the
1HBH being proof of that i would say
also, he seems to be quite confident about what he contributed to modern tennis teaching, being a pioneer of teaching how the pros play,etc.
that doesn´t sit well with some posters

Yes, it does go back a ways. I think some of it lingers mostly from 2 former posters.
One was a Braden know all, who tried to crush anyone who disagreed, and
the other would write long pages on details of Oscar's exploits. It may go back
even further, but those guys seemed to draw a big line in the sand on the topics.
I came along as those two battled and then went away. I just like to see MTM
technique represented as one of the approaches to learning and mastering the
game. Some will really have exciting growth and improvement with it. Some
never get the simple, but subtle nuances of it and that is fine, but not a good
reason to try and block others who may really benefit.

There are many like Ash, who do get most of what MTM shares, but don't see
it as the best way to get the info across. I respect that. I don't get all that
MTM states either, but have learned thru experience that often I will get it later,
in the right setting. I initially thought the idea of "waiting" was as silly as
most of the anti Oscar crowd here, but reserved my final judgement due to the
quality of the other things expressed. Then one Sat. morning I found myself in
a doubles match against 2 really outstanding servers that were killing us with
their pace. After a couple of desperate games facing their pace, the silly idea
of waiting came to mind. What a great time to try it with nothing to lose, right?
Getting smoked anyway, lol.

Short story is I tried to wait by believing there was more time and that the pace
was causing me to OVER react. I relaxed and quit rushing, but still got after
the ball. It worked for me so I shared it with my partner, who had noticed how
my rtns had picked up. He did better as well and we found a way to come back
and win that match due to this silly tip that I had thought was ridiculous.
So my intention is that these tips should be available here on this tips forum
for anyone that might be helped. They are the best imo, but clearly not for
everyone.

boramiNYC
11-21-2012, 09:49 AM
5263, sounds more like a story of a spiritual leader to me than a teacher who really knows his skill. too much faith is required for promise of something so grand, play like pros. and when so many reasonably sounding people point out a detrimental flaw in the method as exhibited in this thread, there appears no attempt to make any sense and question the validity of his claim. instead you guys are busy defending Oscar. it's this kinda culture that is hurting mtm not a few people trying to take down mtm. if Oscar comes out and explain his stuff with an open mind that what he is saying could be wrong based on clear reasoning, he will earn my respect but as of now mtm by Oscar is not a serious method to master tennis skill, esp 1hbh.

boramiNYC
11-21-2012, 10:08 AM
Sure, you are entitled to your views, and as gentlemen, we can agree to disagree. :) Personally, I have benefited a lot from Oscar's teachings. I find his insights absolutely fascinating, since it opens up a way of looking at the game that is unique and rewarding.

when I first encountered Oscar and his work I was impressed by unconventional but many insightful points he makes. he is unusual and he has very sharp eyes and minds. but he has flaws in reasoning ability and some kind of aggrandized self image that defies questioning. I'm sure there can be many capable instructors like you who got inspiration from him but when a teacher loses the ability to examine his beliefs and correct himself, the students should know what to take and what not to take because that teacher is done for good. and being defensive and assuming all the critiques are the enemies will hasten that demise. so it's up to you guys.

5263
11-21-2012, 10:13 AM
5263, sounds more like a story of a spiritual leader to me than a teacher who really knows his skill. too much faith is required for promise of something so grand, play like pros. and when so many reasonably sounding people point out a detrimental flaw in the method as exhibited in this thread, there appears no attempt to make any sense and question the validity of his claim. instead you guys are busy defending Oscar. it's this kinda culture that is hurting mtm not a few people trying to take down mtm. if Oscar comes out and explain his stuff with an open mind that what he is saying could be wrong based on clear reasoning, he will earn my respect but as of now mtm by Oscar is not a serious method to master tennis skill, esp 1hbh.
Those religious references are out of line and uncalled for...especially from you,
the pot calling the kettle, lol. Your posts are the ones that seem more
spiritual in nature and all these reasonable folks are trying to tell you that your
ideas about using the wrist are way off. You don't listen, because of your positive
experience though. I don't listen to these folks either because I have experienced
the benefits of the modern lessons. Those folks don't sound so reasonable when you
know different with them constantly contradicting themselves and each other,
showing a limited understanding on the topics. I have been where they are and
moved past that. Why would I go back from the best tennis I've experienced?

I'm not saying anything about faith anyway...We are talking about having an open
mind. Sort of a sad statement about your religion if tennis tips and a open mind
make you think of your faith imo.

Hopefully your are smart enough to realize about the haters, that it is a catch 22.
If they knew it and understood it, they say there is nothing new, but...
If it's new & different where they don't understand it, they reject it like the plague.
Can't help those with that type mindset can you?

sureshs
11-21-2012, 10:31 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30583420.jpg

boramiNYC
11-21-2012, 11:15 AM
5263, you know nobody that plays E fh that can generate a lot of pace and spin, do you? but in pro there are. quite a number of them. they are how I model my fh. now if you say there is not much difference b/w these modern E and your modern SW fh, or cannot see the difference, you won't be able to understand.

5263
11-21-2012, 11:27 AM
5263, you know nobody that plays E fh that can generate a lot of pace and spin, do you? but in pro there are. quite a number of them. they are how I model my fh. now if you say there is not much difference b/w these modern E and your modern SW fh, or cannot see the difference, you won't be able to understand.

you are right, I have no idea what you are talking about.
I can only guess that you are laboring under more misinformation,
that the modern Fh has a certain grip and does not include Eastern??:???:
This is a good example of why folks should post on the subjects they know and
not state the case for others.

sureshs
11-21-2012, 11:28 AM
boram, don't allow the thread to be diverted away from the bad backhand advice in the video to some argument about your forehand. It is a diversionary tactic.

bhupaes
11-21-2012, 11:35 AM
when I first encountered Oscar and his work I was impressed by unconventional but many insightful points he makes. he is unusual and he has very sharp eyes and minds. but he has flaws in reasoning ability and some kind of aggrandized self image that defies questioning. I'm sure there can be many capable instructors like you who got inspiration from him but when a teacher loses the ability to examine his beliefs and correct himself, the students should know what to take and what not to take because that teacher is done for good. and being defensive and assuming all the critiques are the enemies will hasten that demise. so it's up to you guys.

Hey boramiNYC, I am not an instructor! I'm just another Silicon Valley drone, trying to find on the tennis court the part that seems to be missing from the rest of my life! :) I prefer to stay in the technical realm, and apply whatever I learn to my game, be it from Oscar or someone else.

treblings
11-21-2012, 01:42 PM
I initially thought the idea of "waiting" was as silly as
most of the anti Oscar crowd here, but reserved my final judgement due to the
quality of the other things expressed. Then one Sat. morning I found myself in
a doubles match against 2 really outstanding servers that were killing us with
their pace. After a couple of desperate games facing their pace, the silly idea
of waiting came to mind. What a great time to try it with nothing to lose, right?
Getting smoked anyway, lol.

Short story is I tried to wait by believing there was more time and that the pace
was causing me to OVER react. I relaxed and quit rushing, but still got after
the ball. It worked for me so I shared it with my partner, who had noticed how
my rtns had picked up. He did better as well and we found a way to come back
and win that match due to this silly tip that I had thought was ridiculous.
So my intention is that these tips should be available here on this tips forum
for anyone that might be helped. They are the best imo, but clearly not for
everyone.

one of these days i´ll start a thread on ´waiting´ i´ll make sure not to mention certain keywords like mtm so we can discuss it more calmly:)
watching some of the best players in the world in my agegroup did it for me, seeing how unrushed they play. i´ve since been able to incorporate some of this in my own game, with extraordinary results against players half my age. a few months ago i felt overwhelmed with their pace, lately i seem to thrive on it.
i have a feeling that modern footwork and open stances that i´ve adopted play a part, but don´t have all the answers yet.

5263
11-21-2012, 01:50 PM
one of these days i´ll start a thread on ´waiting´ i´ll make sure not to mention certain keywords like mtm so we can discuss it more calmly:)
watching some of the best players in the world in my agegroup did it for me, seeing how unrushed they play. i´ve since been able to incorporate some of this in my own game, with extraordinary results against players half my age. a few months ago i felt overwhelmed with their pace, lately i seem to thrive on it.
i have a feeling that modern footwork and open stances that i´ve adopted play a part, but don´t have all the answers yet.

That sounds very interesting and I look forward to it. I'd like to learn more and
here of your experiences on this. Some players seem to have so much more time
to play the ball.

boramiNYC
11-21-2012, 02:05 PM
Hey boramiNYC, I am not an instructor! I'm just another Silicon Valley drone, trying to find on the tennis court the part that seems to be missing from the rest of my life! :) I prefer to stay in the technical realm, and apply whatever I learn to my game, be it from Oscar or someone else.

I could have sworn I read you teaching in some previous thread but mistaken. you seem to have unusually well organized thought process on techniques to be just doing it for fun. I too am a student of the game and bettering myself is one of the things I enjoy most. I also try to have an open mind and I don't care where an idea comes from. but not rejecting unfounded idea is not same as having an open mind.

5263
11-21-2012, 02:17 PM
but not rejecting unfounded idea is not same as having an open mind.

But ideas put forth by a former pro, lifetime instructor, and author of tennis books
and video is not unfounded; especially when there are several posters speaking
of how the instruction worked and helped them. That is very founded. It may not
always be right, since nothing is always right, but it's darned well founded.

If you are struggling with a geometry proof, are you going to listen to the ones
who also don't get the problem, or the ones who have solved the problem and
are experiencing success with it? You seem to find comfort with the others who
say the problem can't be worked that way and ignore those who demonstrate
different.

boramiNYC
11-21-2012, 02:56 PM
5263, oh that's why you have faith in Oscar. good for you, very solid foundation you are on. I base my judgment solely on my understanding from studying and researching about human body movement and putting it into practice while playing. btw I have very solid 1hbh I continue to improve, which I'm sure is way better than Mr. wegner demonstrating in that clip. it's astounding with all those experience he couldn't come up with a better 1hbh instruction, which is telling about the foundation you are relying on.

arche3
11-21-2012, 03:00 PM
Oscar paints pictures in your mind that affects your play positively. Is it technically flawless? No. But it's words used to elicit a specific response from the body. I like most of his insights.

sureshs
11-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Much better to get proper imagery by watching videos of pros on Youtube or on Tennis Channel. Transferring weight backwards in a 1 handed BH is not a good image to have.

sureshs
11-21-2012, 04:08 PM
5263, oh that's why you have faith in Oscar. good for you, very solid foundation you are on. I base my judgment solely on my understanding from studying and researching about human body movement and putting it into practice while playing. btw I have very solid 1hbh I continue to improve, which I'm sure is way better than Mr. wegner demonstrating in that clip. it's astounding with all those experience he couldn't come up with a better 1hbh instruction, which is telling about the foundation you are relying on.

It is a business in the end.

bhupaes
11-21-2012, 08:49 PM
I could have sworn I read you teaching in some previous thread but mistaken. you seem to have unusually well organized thought process on techniques to be just doing it for fun. I too am a student of the game and bettering myself is one of the things I enjoy most. I also try to have an open mind and I don't care where an idea comes from. but not rejecting unfounded idea is not same as having an open mind.

Thank you for the kind words, borami. I enjoy reading your posts, and I think you have a pretty good insight into tennis. I do have a few points where I don't see eye-to-eye with Oscar, but he might just be right. The 2hbh is one example. I know he advocates an open stance, but I've had my best results with a closed or neutral stance, and I see pros using a closed stance whenever the opportunity affords. It's still a work in progress for me...

treblings
11-22-2012, 01:59 AM
Much better to get proper imagery by watching videos of pros on Youtube or on Tennis Channel. Transferring weight backwards in a 1 handed BH is not a good image to have.

do i understand you correctly from your posts, that you´re not a fan of formal instruction and taking lessons from coaches in general?

boramiNYC
11-22-2012, 07:33 AM
Thank you for the kind words, borami. I enjoy reading your posts, and I think you have a pretty good insight into tennis. I do have a few points where I don't see eye-to-eye with Oscar, but he might just be right. The 2hbh is one example. I know he advocates an open stance, but I've had my best results with a closed or neutral stance, and I see pros using a closed stance whenever the opportunity affords. It's still a work in progress for me...

aren't we all works in progress. don't get me wrong, I like many of his insights as well. clearly he tried hard to innovate tennis teaching and I think there should be more teachers who try to think outside the box for the sake of tennis. but not all areas are equally innovateable. some are well established for good reason and others have more room for improvement or variation. there are many different kinds of fh in the tour but for 1hbh the footwork is pretty universal. it doesn't mean he can't try to improve it but the way he is doing it, to apply the pull across sideway for rhs and racket movement low to high for topspin while moving the weight backward just like in his fh concept, simply doesn't work. clearly he didn't observe the pros well on this. if he is a courageous person he should go back to the drawing board and come up with something better.

5263
11-22-2012, 07:34 AM
5263, oh that's why you have faith in Oscar. good for you,

you are the one talking of faith and spirits...sounds like you have the issues in
that department.

boramiNYC
11-22-2012, 08:42 AM
you are the one talking of faith and spirits...sounds like you have the issues in
that department.

you are right, I once did but not any more. I found a very firm ground in that department that gives me plenty confidence.

BTW, happy thanksgiving to all!