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kiteboard
11-24-2012, 06:12 PM
How to deal with cheaters.
We've all been there. It's a league or a tournament match. Your opponent does not want to lose, so they cheat you. Most common cheating call is on a ball near the line. So they call it out. You can see it is clearly not out. Sometimes it's so far in that it borders on the insane.

The whole purpose of the cheater is to psych you. He wants you to get angry over the obviously bad call. He also wants to steal the match from you. It's one of the most effective psyches out there.

Another common cheat is the score cheat. He will say, "It's love 40.", when you know you won a point. He is gambling that you can't recite how each point went, and most of us cannot. Even if you get a ref, he knows that the score will go back to the last agreed upon score. Refs can't tell who is lying and who is telling the truth. But calling one in will solve a few problems: He cannot obviously cheat, but he can still call balls out that are on the line, and refs won't be able to be sure on those calls. The score cheat will now no longer be able to do that anymore, as the ref will remember and force you to call it out. Calling it out loudly before each point is required by the code anyway.

Another common cheat is the psych expert, one who will use all types of psyches to upset you, and jam your internal timing.

So how do we armor ourselves against these low brow tactics? I once had a match at Golden Gate park in San Francisco, with a local guy. The whole crowd was there to see him play and cheer for him, a german transplant to the park. It started before the match played a single point: He told me to spin for serve choice. I did. He lost. He then said, "I didn't see the racquet butt. How do I know you told the truth about it?" (I showed it to him and he lied.) My face fell. I knew what I was in for, an unprecedented match of all types of cheating psyches. The first set was an all out war. Brutal points.. All sorts of cheating. I made the mistake of not calling a ref. I won that set 6-4, and we went to a second. I called a ref out but he won it, and now it was too dark to play. The next morning, at 8am, the fog was blowing into the court, and I had spoken to a friend about how to deal with this epic cheat. He said, "Start complimenting him on his good shots. Don't react at all to his ****. He will have nothing to react to, and his adversarial crap will fold in upon himself. He will collapse." I went down love 4 right off the bat. My body was too cold in the icy fog drifting across the courts. I adopted the complimenting style and began to visualize coming back, and winning, and seeing his face after he lost a huge lead. He began to miss easy shots and I did come back and win. He refused the hand shake and left, kicking and beating things, including himself.

So what did that teach me? It taught me not to react to cheats, and to get a ref quicker. IN league play, there are no refs, unfortunately so that is not an option, but if you spot a bad one, call a ref out very fast. Decide not to react to any psych he tries. Decide to use the complimenting style against the worst, as they feed off your anger and derive pleasure from it, and if there is none, and if you are being decent no matter what, they will fold in upon their own evil intention.

As far as the psych master cheats: Learn which ones are most common: and decide to be able to recognize them ahead of time. Decide to make yourself a coat of psych armor as part of your game and practice being invulnerable to all psych. "My, aren't you serving well today?": Aussie psych. I was playing Nick Saviano once, and used it against him. He got so mad, he won a tough game on serve, and then slammed the ball down into the ground so hard it bounced up about 50 feet high! He screamed: "If you can touch my serve!", and stormed off to the bench. He knew what I was doing and still could not control his temper.

Lots of other psyches out there. Armor yourself. Visualize a suit of psych armor on your body when you go up against the win at all costs assshole.

SoBad
11-24-2012, 06:22 PM
I usually have snipers in place well before the game, just in case the match goes bad.

anantak2k
11-24-2012, 07:25 PM
It's hard to stay focused that happens. You feel like you can't go for lines anymore. There are times when they really throw me off and I get super annoyed and start losing the match mentally. But for the most part, I deal with it okay I guess. I also feel that cheaters get rarer and rarer as you play at a higher level. A lot of people actually give you the benefit of the doubt on close balls and continue playing the point. Obviously there are exceptions at every level.

Lately, I just mind my own business and try to focus on my own game. Even when I play tournaments, I just don't care as much when I go into matches. I always tell myself "play your best." If I play my best, win or lose, I am happy at the end of the day. I look at winning as a bonus. If people start making horrible calls, I don't even pay attention anymore. I just move on to the next point.

The players who really do bother me and get on my nerves more than those that cheat on line calls are the one who hinder you in one way or another in the middle of the point and distract you (another form of cheating obviously).

North
11-24-2012, 08:44 PM
I don't play leagues but can see where that would be the worst scenario because there is no ref at all and the jerk on the other side of the net may feel more free to cheat and otherwise use scummy gamesmanship with teammates there to back him/her up.

I do play tournaments though and have needed to get an official in nearly every tournament I have ever played, sometimes for more than one match, depending how deep I go in the tourney. The official usually cannot stay long and the nonsense often soon starts again. I just stop play again and keep getting an official. I am very pleasant and patient about it. But I don't let the cheating go on till it rankles me. The mere act of getting an official, especially repeatedly, often rankles the opponent so much, they fall apart mentally. Too bad for them if they cannot win without cheating.

What I do NOT do is let a cheating opponent get to me or give them a chance to continue their shenanigans.

kiteboard
11-24-2012, 09:10 PM
That's their whole intention, to get to you. So you jam yourself. Anger will jam you. So will hatred, and a feeling of being robbed/abused, as so often occurs in tournament play, where guys have been taught by other cheaters just how well it works.

Rozroz
11-25-2012, 12:44 AM
but how do you change your game plan strategically ?
can you continue play aggressive at all? (taking risk of hitting the lines etc..)

dominikk1985
11-25-2012, 01:52 AM
Lendl him:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xAPwx3z950

Hi I'm Ray
11-25-2012, 03:09 AM
Funny thing is, most ppl talk about cheaters trying to mix up points but the cheaters I normally deal with try to do that with entire games. Happened again just the other day when a guy tried to change the score from 5-1 to 4-1. It was doubles so he couldn't argue w/the 6 games we played based on serving order. These guys will argue like the fake score is a fact and they do it so often that sometimes you start to think maybe they are just confused easily and just lose track of score, but then again why is it that everytime they confuse the score its always in a way that favors them? :oops: lol.

Doubles
11-25-2012, 08:06 AM
Have you ever had a match that doesn't include the drama of being terribly injured or dealing with absolute scum bags? or do you just make this stuff up?

martini1
11-25-2012, 08:32 AM
Funny thing is, most ppl talk about cheaters trying to mix up points but the cheaters I normally deal with try to do that with entire games. Happened again just the other day when a guy tried to change the score from 5-1 to 4-1. It was doubles so he couldn't argue w/the 6 games we played based on serving order. These guys will argue like the fake score is a fact and they do it so often that sometimes you start to think maybe they are just confused easily and just lose track of score, but then again why is it that everytime they confuse the score its always in a way that favors them? :oops: lol.

Coz if they think the score is 5-1 instead of 4-1, they will just keep quite and play on :lol:

I am not the best score keeper on court but when I play with known cheaters I could try to call out the score before every serve, or ask what the score is before every serve if I forgot to keep score. When they know I am on top of the scores there is a less chance they cheat.

Bad calls... yes, some like to call a lot of balls out. On serves I would have my partner keep an eye on the lines. One more voice on questioning the call helps to keep them checked down the road. Sometimes I could call one of their balls out on purpose, just to let them know if they want to play dirty they will get bad calls from my end too. Otherwise I am quite generous on the line calls. Balls are in unless I see a clean 2" gap between the line and the ball.

Roforot
11-25-2012, 10:32 AM
Wow, this is a very readable post Kiteboard!

No, I'm not complimenting you as a psychological tactic :)

kiteboard
11-25-2012, 10:58 AM
Have you ever had a match that doesn't include the drama of being terribly injured or dealing with absolute scum bags? or do you just make this stuff up?

Thousands of matches played brings out the worst in some. No one wants to hear boring stories! Or do you want to hear about the two sets I won yesterday against a 5.0, 7-6 7-6? Guy had a huge fh, etc, no, right?

Rozroz
11-25-2012, 11:04 AM
Thousands of matches played brings out the worst in some. No one wants to hear boring stories! Or do you want to hear about the two sets I won yesterday against a 5.0, 7-6 7-6? Guy had a huge fh, etc, no, right?

i'm quite interested to know, actually..

tennis_balla
11-25-2012, 11:10 AM
"WHAT, Out?!? Out of your reach @$$hole!!"

tennis_balla
11-25-2012, 11:27 AM
I've played enough tournaments throughout my playing days to know that you cannot and should not rely on tournament directors to solve these types of problems. Most of the time they are about as useful as a handbrake on a canoe and no I am not stretching the truth.
The majority of the time they do not have the knowledge or experience in running a proper tournament but thats the way things are and you have to accept that.

I've been through some interesting situations, especially as a junior. One that pops into my mind was where my opponent proceeded to call me a b*tch and other obscenities during our warm up along with hooking during the match. 3 times I went to get a umpire, which resulted in the tournament director finding a 12 yr old kid to umpire the match, useless. I left the court and went to the director again, he finally got an adult on the court to umpire the match. She too was useless and even though the guy kept yapping his mouth at me, her response was, "I don't exactly understand what he's saying so I can't do anything about it."

What you have to do is prevent such circumstances from happening to begin with. You have to arrive to your match with your head held high and not come slumped shouldered. You have to project a strong image, not an arrogant image but a strong image telling the others you're fair but you won't take any of their crap. These guys prey on the weak, the ones they know they can get away with pulling this kind of crap. If they smell blood and you look like a wounded gazelle on the Serengeti...well, good luck. You gotta protect yourself and stand up and be heard. Don't start arguing with them, but let them know you know what they are doing. If worst comes to worst cheat them back as there is no other way around it. If you've had bad experiences with a certain player in the past, there is nothing wrong with confronting them in a mature but direct way before the start of the match, telling them you hope this will be a fair match. Let them know you won't take any of their crap and you'll soon realize how quickly these cowards crawl back in their hole.

kiteboard
11-25-2012, 01:40 PM
I won a money tournament last couple weeks ago, and in the semi final, the opponent called a bh volley out that was six inches inside the left sideline, beautifully hit shot. If he was honest about the call, it would have put him down love 40 and open for a 5-1 lead for me, first set. He said, "Out."

I said, "That was six inches in." (It was.)

He said, "That's what your wife said last night."...------ )(---------

███▬► I then said, "Why don't you come up to the net a little closer and say that to me?" "You little lying piece of ****." And I got a ref. She shut down the banter and the cheating. He also cheated me on the score twice, all in his favor, all in an attempt to unsettle my winning attacking style. I then reeled off 5 of six games and the match was done. He then had to play a consolation match, and wait for the final to be played, in front of his face, while the final was played without any bad calls at all, and in a totally friendly manner.

After the match, I shook hands with the loser and said, "Thanks for the honest calls. The guy in the semi did this:"- repeat of story, and the guy walked on the court and said, "That guy is an azzhole."

IN the past that psych would have worked on me, and I might have lost it. This time, it served to focus my game so that I played better, not worse as was his intended effect. I used visualization, on each point, seeing the score ahead of time, seeing my shots ahead of time, on serve and return. Took it to him and just started hitting better shots.

kiteboard
11-25-2012, 01:44 PM
i'm quite interested to know, actually..

This guy leads his frame and has the heaviest fh around. Just smacks winners, but he just spun his serve in and I attacked it well.

Rozroz
11-25-2012, 01:58 PM
I said, "That was six inches in." (It was.)

He said, "That's what your wife said last night."...------ )(---------



sorry i know it was on a serious note plz don't take it wrongly but that was pretty funny :oops:

tennis_balla
11-25-2012, 02:14 PM
The whole cheating fiasco can be dealt with in many different ways. Kicking their *** on the scoreboard is the best way. If it gets out of hand, it can get ugly. I've seen matches where Player A was cheating pretty badly, on the next point Player B called a ball out that was right in the middle of the court. After a short argument the cheating stopped after that. Each situation is different, but whatever happens don't allow the other person to walk all over you.

mikeler
11-25-2012, 03:00 PM
The whole cheating fiasco can be dealt with in many different ways. Kicking their *** on the scoreboard is the best way. If it gets out of hand, it can get ugly. I've seen matches where Player A was cheating pretty badly, on the next point Player B called a ball out that was right in the middle of the court. After a short argument the cheating stopped after that. Each situation is different, but whatever happens don't allow the other person to walk all over you.

I've done that before. What you described is exactly what happened. The kid was way better than me and certainly did not need to cheat to win.

kiteboard
11-25-2012, 04:35 PM
The whole cheating fiasco can be dealt with in many different ways. Kicking their *** on the scoreboard is the best way. If it gets out of hand, it can get ugly. I've seen matches where Player A was cheating pretty badly, on the next point Player B called a ball out that was right in the middle of the court. After a short argument the cheating stopped after that. Each situation is different, but whatever happens don't allow the other person to walk all over you.

I've done that, and that resulted in two things: the cheater calls the ref in and the ref thought I was the cheater, and: cheater cheated even more before I called ref in. It's enough to stop tournament play. Too bad we can't prove it and ban them.

Rozroz
11-25-2012, 04:49 PM
I've done that, and that resulted in two things: the cheater calls the ref in and the ref thought I was the cheater, and: cheater cheated even more before I called ref in. It's enough to stop tournament play. Too bad we can't prove it and ban them.

one way is to video the match. at least you get one side of the court covered,
and it will definitely keep the cheater more behaved.

charliefedererer
11-26-2012, 08:12 AM
Life is full of cheaters and psych artists.

The more you encounter on the tennis court, the better you will be prepared for life.


[Hint: you have to play in your own skin.

If you are inclined to be a cheater and or psych artists, you can learn from these others.

If you are appalled by cheaters and psych artists, don't back down from a bully.
Call them on it.
Tell them you you can see they are cheating or trying to psych your out.
Some will be so taken aback they may actually stop.
Many actually pride themselves on their cheating/psyching abilities and will only try harder.
But don't get mad - get even.
Beat them on the tennis court - and don't lose your temper unless you are the very rare McEnroe type that can actually channel anger into better play. Very rare.
To be fair - and you are only trying to be fair - a few outrageous calls of your own is only fair play.]

kiteboard
11-26-2012, 08:49 AM
That's a nice post cf. When I've tried to retaliate against them by calling a ball out that was 2' in, they always just got worse, or they called the ref in, and I got the bad rap. The only thing that's worked for me was to either call the ref myself, or to ignore them and start complimenting them as a psych myself.

vil
11-26-2012, 02:16 PM
What about those, that take ages to serve or they will start fixing their shoe laces just when you are about to serve. If you have no ref, they do whatever they want to screw you up, particularly if they can't do it in the game.
Yeah, I call them "rhythm breakers" ...hmm that actually could be on the border line between tactics and cheating:-? What do you think?

Nostradamus
11-26-2012, 02:45 PM
sorry i know it was on a serious note plz don't take it wrongly but that was pretty funny :oops:

That one was funny. but here is a twist for you. What if you have a guy, Psychopath, that questions every close call you make and throws temper tantrum like McEnroe used to do. This is a ploy some guys use to intimidate their opponents into giving them close calls on crucial points of the match.

Have you guys faced dirty psych job players like this ? I faced one over the summer USTA league and I almost walked off the court. I filed a complaint to USTA but of course that didn't do much good.:???:

Rozroz
11-26-2012, 02:57 PM
That one was funny. but here is a twist for you. What if you have a guy, Psychopath, that questions every close call you make and throws temper tantrum like McEnroe used to do. This is a ploy some guys use to intimidate their opponents into giving them close calls on crucial points of the match.

Have you guys faced dirty psych job players like this ? I faced one over the summer USTA league and I almost walked off the court. I filed a complaint to USTA but of course that didn't do much good.:???:

oh no, this is just terrible. how did the match end?

kiteboard
11-26-2012, 03:16 PM
I've played that guy, and when you hit the line, on a slow ball, he retaliates by calling it out due to his belief you've already cheated him. I just walked off and never hit with him again. What a *****k.

Nostradamus
11-26-2012, 03:23 PM
oh no, this is just terrible. how did the match end?

Actually I let it affect me and ended up losing the match. but I just walked off the court and didn't shake his hand. I didnt' want to sink to his level and get into a shouting match. I wanted to show that I am a gentleman, no matter what. I doubt he got the point. maybe he forgot to take his Geodon that morning.

rk_sports
11-26-2012, 04:45 PM
Lot of good advice on how to deal with blatant cheating/ers

Now, I've played a lot of players who are borderline cheaters... anything close to the line is OUT ... how do you properly deal with that (calling ref is not an option) apart from what my friend's suggestion (do not hot close to lines)

Doubles
11-26-2012, 04:45 PM
Actually I let it affect me and ended up losing the match. but I just walked off the court and didn't shake his hand. I didnt' want to sink to his level and get into a shouting match. I wanted to show that I am a gentleman, no matter what. I doubt he got the point. maybe he forgot to take his Geodon that morning.

If you walk off the court without shaking his hand you're being a sore loser and sinking to his level.

kiteboard
11-26-2012, 06:01 PM
Lot of good advice on how to deal with blatant cheating/ers

Now, I've played a lot of players who are borderline cheaters... anything close to the line is OUT ... how do you properly deal with that (calling ref is not an option) apart from what my friend's suggestion (do not hot close to lines)

There is no way to properly deal with someone who knows he is cheating. Very common tactic, at many levels. They do it to win, no matter the cost of their soul. Nothing to do with you. Best tactic: call a ref and ignore it if no ref. I don't shake cheaters hands. They don't deserve any respect at any level. They know they are cheating as a tactic. They know there is nothing you can do. They don't care about anything but the win. Beat them is the best option. Not so easy if you are vulnerable to the psych. Decide to be invulnerable to it.

TomT
11-27-2012, 12:15 AM
Maybe I've just been lucky, but through playing hundreds of matches in 1975-1976 and over 40 matches in 2012 I have yet to encounter anything like the cheating and psyching that you describe. And back in the day I was what would currently be considered a 4.0 to 4.5 competitor.

If confronted with the stuff that you describe I think I would just walk quietly off the court and never have anything to do with such a small minded person that would cheat at tennis. I mean, how petty can one get? I just wouldn't have it. Engaging in competition with such a person would be contrary to what gives me enjoyment in playing games like tennis.

mxmx
11-27-2012, 05:39 AM
1) If he cheats, one could in return, call out your opponents shot that was obviously in :P

2) maybe beat him with shots further from the line? I know its extreme...but how can he call out a shot that was miles in? Drop shots...percentage counter punching, so that you can rather call out his shots instead of him calling yours?

I once played mixed doubles against an older fella and a younger girl...
First, he made us play on a court that had bad lighting where other better courts were available. (his home ground). He knew we would be far off from any witnesses. I complained, but left it at that. We lost the first set due to the bad light. As the sun set, more definition was available on the ball than with the dusk/shadows effect. Anyways, we came back, and he saw this. I was about to serve for the second set, and in my motion, he said he cant see anymore (it was his idea to play there). He insisted we walk back to the original courts of around 100metres away, with his home crowd cheering. I took my serve and the 2nd set. In the tie breaker third, he literally took points. And he literally called shots a feet in, out. He would compliment one shot, and make a bad call on the next (so that he appeared all noble). My partner cracked under all this pressure, fencing sitters at the net. We eventually lost the match something like 9-6 in the tiebreaker (where they literally took a point). I walked and shaked his hand and said nothing - not falling for his fake nobility. If it wasn't for their club president shaking my hand and being all nice about it, i would have made an official complaint.

In the end, he cheated himself - it was hard dealing with that match though, knowing how bad they cheated. My partner, has not played one match since as far as i know - not sure how much this has affected her.
Just typing this, enrages me again.

mikeler
11-27-2012, 06:24 AM
I've also been very fortunate in that routine cheating has only been a problem one time. Sure I've had disagreements over line calls but never more than once or twice a match. One time I played an older gentleman who called about 5 of my aces out but I think he just had bad eyes.

rufus_smith
11-27-2012, 07:06 AM
For contrast to OP's experience, I recently watched a close three-set Open division final between too young, well-coached phenoms who actually played several balls that I saw as clearly out. They had good sportsmanship all-around. I was kind of surprised in a good way.

mikeler
11-27-2012, 08:01 AM
For contrast to OP's experience, I recently watched a close three-set Open division final between too young, well-coached phenoms who actually played several balls that I saw as clearly out. They had good sportsmanship all-around. I was kind of surprised in a good way.


I've noticed more cheating at the lower NTRP levels than the higher levels.

kiteboard
11-27-2012, 08:04 AM
1) If he cheats, one could in return, call out your opponents shot that was obviously in :P

2) maybe beat him with shots further from the line? I know its extreme...but how can he call out a shot that was miles in? Drop shots...percentage counter punching, so that you can rather call out his shots instead of him calling yours?

I once played mixed doubles against an older fella and a younger girl...
First, he made us play on a court that had bad lighting where other better courts were available. (his home ground). He knew we would be far off from any witnesses. I complained, but left it at that. We lost the first set due to the bad light. As the sun set, more definition was available on the ball than with the dusk/shadows effect. Anyways, we came back, and he saw this. I was about to serve for the second set, and in my motion, he said he cant see anymore (it was his idea to play there). He insisted we walk back to the original courts of around 100metres away, with his home crowd cheering. I took my serve and the 2nd set. In the tie breaker third, he literally took points. And he literally called shots a feet in, out. He would compliment one shot, and make a bad call on the next (so that he appeared all noble). My partner cracked under all this pressure, fencing sitters at the net. We eventually lost the match something like 9-6 in the tiebreaker (where they literally took a point). I walked and shaked his hand and said nothing - not falling for his fake nobility. If it wasn't for their club president shaking my hand and being all nice about it, i would have made an official complaint.

In the end, he cheated himself - it was hard dealing with that match though, knowing how bad they cheated. My partner, has not played one match since as far as i know - not sure how much this has affected her.
Just typing this, enrages me again.

Guy did it on purpose, no doubt to win at all costs. So common now. Sad state of affairs the competition has come to. San pablo park has a lot of cheating guys, who sort of have an agreement to do it to each other even in practice matches. I've seen ten or twelve guys down there do it, and even heard one say, when challenged by me, "Everybody does it." He called five of my serves out in one doubles match that were in.
I said, "Five bad calls is my limit.", and walked off the court. That whole family cheats. That club has been warned about it, but old habits die hard. In league play.

kiteboard
11-27-2012, 08:07 AM
I've noticed more cheating at the lower NTRP levels than the higher levels.

True. The lesser players can't win with their no weapons game, so they adopt the low brow tactics as weapons. Pushers, more defensive players, lower grade types are more likely to do it just as a compensitive mode. The biggest pro cheats, who used to challenge good calls, were those types: Vicario and Chang. That is a common tactic: scream about a good call to intimidate the ref. or the opponent.

Hi I'm Ray
11-27-2012, 08:32 AM
Unfortunately I have to agree with those that say sometimes you have to cheat them back to make it a fair games in those cases and standing up for yourself only is the only option. I'm not going to straight up cheat anyone but I wont give them close line calls anymore if they make a habit of calling shots clearly on the line out or calling it out before it lands. "Taking the high road" and saying/doing nothing sounds ideal but in reality does nothing except invite them to do it more. I deal with a massive load of cheaters and "psych artists" and standing up and calling them out on it is very effective. Sometimes they get the message and seriously cut it out, sometimes they continue to do it but to a lesser extent around everybody because you have sent a strong message that if they continue people will become confrontational, other times they are just @$$holes and go on being so but will know not to mess with you next time. Everyone who I've confronted has toned it down, one guy even started getting chummy. The vast majority became nice "overnight" when I started getting practice hours in, shaking off my time-off rust, and outplaying them by a fair margin or being difficult for the advanced players to play. That previous sentence only works locally though, in a more competitive situation against your peers it won't change much.

kiteboard
11-27-2012, 09:00 AM
Unfortunately I have to agree with those that say sometimes you have to cheat them back to make it a fair games in those cases and standing up for yourself only is the only option. I'm not going to straight up cheat anyone but I wont give them close line calls anymore if they make a habit of calling shots clearly on the line out or calling it out before it lands. "Taking the high road" and saying/doing nothing sounds ideal but in reality does nothing except invite them to do it more. I deal with a massive load of cheaters and "psych artists" and standing up and calling them out on it is very effective. Sometimes they get the message and seriously cut it out, sometimes they continue to do it but to a lesser extent around everybody because you have sent a strong message that if they continue people will become confrontational, other times they are just @$$holes and go on being so but will know not to mess with you next time. Everyone who I've confronted has toned it down, one guy even started getting chummy. The vast majority became nice "overnight" when I started getting practice hours in, shaking off my time-off rust, and outplaying them by a fair margin or being difficult for the advanced players to play. That previous sentence only works locally though, in a more competitive situation against your peers it won't change much.
Cheating back only increases their cheating. Does not work. Then you will get the rep for being the cheater, as they will then go bad mouth you! I got used to calling the ref in at the first sign of bad sportsmanship, so their were refs at many of my matches, so I got the bad rep when I was trying to stop the common crap. So I stopped doing that, and adopted the ignore rule. That didn't work either, just made me mad whenever I got ripped off. Nothing really works, unfortunately. When we play for amateur fun, the asszholes can easily ruin it with a few of their tricks.

One of the top league guys complained to me about a san pablo park cheater and he said, "J*** cheats so much in our matches I just can't stand to play him anymore.", so he played doubles instead of singles. (He's a 5.0 guy.) Unfortunately, J*** also played doubles as well. When I play, and see my partner making bad calls, I just overule him. When I don't and just cringe, I always feel guilty about it later.

How about you? Do you guys overrule your cheating doubles partners when they make bad calls? When you do, it kills off momentum and partner trust, esp. if you are wrong and they are right in their calls.

mikeler
11-27-2012, 10:14 AM
I would never regularly play with a guy that cheats either as an opponent or teammate.

Hi I'm Ray
11-27-2012, 10:30 AM
If its clearly in and my partner makes a bad call, I'll say it was in and the point is played over. If they get defensive about it I'll just say whatever as it is not worth it and they are just random drop-in doubles partners anyways.
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The only time I've ever had a ref called in was in a college game and the guy was calling everything that landed on the baseline out. I hit a very loopy FH shot with lots of spin back then so it was easy to see if shots were in or out. The refs were just our team mates who had finished their games (which was everyone) but suddenly the endless out calls stopped and I eventually beat the cheat.

chrisberchris
11-29-2012, 04:00 PM
Pepper spray is a good deterrent

JW10S
11-29-2012, 08:51 PM
I remember back in my junior days there was a guy who would call balls 'bad' rather than 'out'. He did it on purpose and it drove some players absolutely crazy. It didn't bother me though, or any of the other top players. I'm surprised how much some players pay attention to what their opponents are doing or saying and how much they let it bother them. Shows clear mental weakness.

kiteboard
11-29-2012, 09:07 PM
Tell that to a businessman who sees shoplifters steal him blind. After all the work to hit a great shot and it gets stolen from you, to say, "That shows mental weakness.", is a comment that does not understand human reaction to a thief. And they are common thieves, who are shop lifting so that they don't have to pay for the point. They cut their hands off in Arabia. Very common. Very understandable. I'm still vulnerable to it, a dirty psych that works well. Dirty and low brow cheats are seen at every tournament. Every league match. The lines are out for them, and sometimes, 4" inside the lines are out as well. Mental weakness aside, it does take mental strength not to cross the net and put them in the blood zone.

I played a guy local who would say, "No, you're--long/out/wide/." , as if you were the shot, and it was a deliberate psych. Bill was his first name. REal *****.


Another common cheater psych is to act like you've cheated them on a ball that was a good call, and to believe it, so that now justifies their own cheating. (San pablo park: you know who you are.) Chang was great at that.

JW10S
11-29-2012, 09:11 PM
Tell that to a businessman who sees shoplifters steal him blind. After all the work to hit a great shot and it gets stolen from you, to say, "That shows mental weakness.", is a comment that does not understand human reaction to a thief. And they are common thieves, who are shop lifting so that they don't have to pay for the point. Very common. Very understandable. I'm still vulnerable to it, a dirty psych that works well. Dirty and low brow cheats are seen at every tournament. Every league match. The lines are out for them, and sometimes, 4" inside the lines are out as well. Mental weakness aside, it does take mental strength not to cross the net and put them in the blood zone.

I played a guy local who would say, "No, you're--long/out/wide/." , as if you were the shot, and it was a deliberate psych. Bill was his first name. REal *****.I can see why the 'psych artists' get to you, you're easy.

And shoplifting?...really?

kiteboard
11-29-2012, 09:13 PM
...................................

JW10S
11-29-2012, 09:18 PM
I'm easy until you have your skull cracked open, and then, I'm not so easy. Do you know why violence occurs when thieves steal? The one who is harmed wants revenge.You've never cracked anyone's skull open. You've never done anything. You just lose and go home and type on your keyboard about it. You've made my point for me--thanks.

arche3
11-30-2012, 08:49 AM
I'm easy until you have your skull cracked open, and then, I'm not so easy. Do you know why violence occurs when thieves steal? The one who is harmed wants revenge.

Um calm down a bit. If someone calls a in ball out it's not stealing. That's cheating if he does it on purpose. If it's close its his call. If he cheats you on an in ball to assault him is simply stupid. Your not losing anything other than a point in a tennis game that means nothing. I think your approach to tennis is a bit nuts.

kiteboard
11-30-2012, 09:37 AM
Just joking. For most it's not stealing but just that they are wrong. For some, it is, and they know exactly what they are doing. To all the thieves out there: who know what they are doing: what goes around comes around, and any misery caused by it is heading back your way one way or another. Only got into one fight, and that was 30 years ago, and that guy did go to the hospital with his face split open 8" long with one punch. So no, I don't crack skulls, just exaggerating for effect.

When I am facing a cheater, the worst I will do is let him know he's a cheat. They don't like that.

Their motto is cheat to win, win at all costs.