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PhrygianDominant
11-25-2012, 08:50 AM
I have recently discovered Juan Carlos Ferrero as a stroke model for me to follow. Sadly he has recently retired. Other posters have talked about his serve as a good model, but his backhand and forehand seem very good as well. My previous or other models are Safin, Agassi, Federer, and Sampras, albeit at different times when I was focusing on different strokes. I also changed my service stance and backhand, obviously.

Who are your models? What entails a good model? Do you factor in body type or playing style? Both?

boramiNYC
11-25-2012, 08:52 PM
1hbh almagro
E fh Fed
footwork Fed
volleys sampras and edberg and Fed
serve almagro and Fed and sampras

PhrygianDominant
11-26-2012, 12:05 AM
Yay, who else? Also why? Why that player and not another?

sunof tennis
11-26-2012, 08:47 AM
I have recently discovered Juan Carlos Ferrero as a stroke model for me to follow. Sadly he has recently retired. Other posters have talked about his serve as a good model, but his backhand and forehand seem very good as well. My previous or other models are Safin, Agassi, Federer, and Sampras, albeit at different times when I was focusing on different strokes. I also changed my service stance and backhand, obviously.

Who are your models? What entails a good model? Do you factor in body type or playing style? Both?
For forehands and one-hand backhands, I like Tommy Haas. His strokes are simple, clean and repeatble. Look, we all would like to have Fed's forehand, but that is not likely to happen. For two-handed backhands, I would likely choose Djokovic

julian
11-26-2012, 09:04 AM
1hbh almagro
E fh Fed
footwork Fed
volleys sampras and edberg and Fed
serve almagro and Fed and sampras
You will find a lot of European coaches saying that volleys by Federer
are very much inferior comparing to Sampras and Edberg
I believe there was an article last year at TennisOne making a similar claim

Larrysümmers
11-26-2012, 11:11 AM
Daveeed Ferrerrr. We are the same body style and i think hes just a cool dude.

PhrygianDominant
11-26-2012, 12:37 PM
For forehands and one-hand backhands, I like Tommy Haas. His strokes are simple, clean and repeatble. Look, we all would like to have Fed's forehand, but that is not likely to happen. For two-handed backhands, I would likely choose Djokovic

I think Tommy Haas is a perfect groundstroke model for players with a one handed backhand. I forgot to mention in my OP that his was the backhand I was modelling my onehander after before I switched.

You will find a lot of European coaches saying that volleys by Federer
are very much inferior comparing to Sampras and Edberg
I believe there are was an article last year at TennisOne making a similar claim

If you only had to have one player Federer might be a good choice, but I agree that his volleys are not as great as some posters on this board would have you believe. On his forehand volley his shoulders are parallel to the net and he slices his backhand volley too much. I like Rafter for volleys, because of that Jeff Salzenstien tip, "keep your head close to your head"...

Daveeed Ferrerrr. We are the same body style and i think hes just a cool dude.

I hope you're not copying that wonky backhand! :shock:

dominikk1985
11-26-2012, 12:39 PM
For forehands and one-hand backhands, I like Tommy Haas. His strokes are simple, clean and repeatble. Look, we all would like to have Fed's forehand, but that is not likely to happen. For two-handed backhands, I would likely choose Djokovic

yes. haas has beautiful strokes. Fed too but his FH is quite complicated and not many can pull that off. most are better of with a conventional double bend FH. Feds serve however is very simple and repeatable I would copy it.

I also second copying novak. very simple and repeatable strokes.

(well I think copying strokes is stupid and nobody who copied a pros stroke ever got past 5.5 but if you have to do it take the ones that were mentioned).

boramiNYC
11-26-2012, 01:14 PM
You will find a lot of European coaches saying that volleys by Federer
are very much inferior comparing to Sampras and Edberg
I believe there are was an article last year at TennisOne making a similar claim

there are too many different variables to compare between Fed and the old era, I would take those coaches opinion with a small grain of salt. one is they used large grips, Fed uses a very small grip. they believed firm wrist on everything, Fed has very fluid wrist on everything. I see lots of other differences but wouldn't go as far as saying Fed s volley is inferior. he uses volleys very effectively when he chooses to, better than most current pros who play baseline game mostly. his footwork is second to none historically which is a big part of volley technique.

boramiNYC
11-26-2012, 01:37 PM
yes. haas has beautiful strokes. Fed too but his FH is quite complicated and not many can pull that off. most are better of with a conventional double bend FH. Feds serve however is very simple and repeatable I would copy it.

I also second copying novak. very simple and repeatable strokes.

(well I think copying strokes is stupid and nobody who copied a pros stroke ever got past 5.5 but if you have to do it take the ones that were mentioned).

critical difference bw haas and Fed, SW and E. if ones using SW and tries to copy Fed>won't work as the copying gets better and better. one using E copy haas same thing. it's best to know well about your game and style and also learn a lot about the player to copy.

Feds fh is not that complicated for someone using E and trying to max the spin. for someone using SW it's impossibly complicated.

also when copying, mixing up is unadvisable, like Djok upperbody and grip with Feds footwork and stance.

sorry a lot of these are not directed at you,dominik.

dominikk1985
11-26-2012, 02:01 PM
critical difference bw haas and Fed, SW and E. if ones using SW and tries to copy Fed>won't work as the copying gets better and better. one using E copy haas same thing. it's best to know well about your game and style and also learn a lot about the player to copy.

Feds fh is not that complicated for someone using E and trying to max the spin. for someone using SW it's impossibly complicated.

also when copying, mixing up is unadvisable, like Djok upperbody and grip with Feds footwork and stance.

sorry a lot of these are not directed at you,dominik.

I agree. that's why I'm against copying strokes but learning the fundamental biomechanical priciples.

many guys try to copy players and get lost in unimportant things like where the wrist points, how wide your stance is in the serve... and miss the important points. I'm sure no current pro learned by copying other guys. they just learned to play tennis and developed their own style.

julian
11-26-2012, 02:21 PM
there are too many different variables to compare between Fed and the old era, I would take those coaches opinion with a small grain of salt. one is they used large grips, Fed uses a very small grip. they believed firm wrist on everything, Fed has very fluid wrist on everything. I see lots of other differences but wouldn't go as far as saying Fed s volley is inferior. he uses volleys very effectively when he chooses to, better than most current pros who play baseline game mostly. his footwork is second to none historically which is a big part of volley technique.
I have said that "...volleys by Federer
are very much inferior comparing to Sampras and Edberg"
I did NOT say "Fed s volley is inferior."
It is a bit of a difference in spoken English

boramiNYC
11-26-2012, 03:02 PM
whoa, what do you mean?

rodrigoamaral
11-26-2012, 03:11 PM
davydenko 2008.. amazing game for his size and physique

julian
11-26-2012, 03:34 PM
whoa, what do you mean?
A linguistic difference on a top of the merit
Basically immaterial because the quoted opinion was not mine

julian
11-26-2012, 03:35 PM
I agree. that's why I'm against copying strokes but learning the fundamental biomechanical priciples.

many guys try to copy players and get lost in unimportant things like where the wrist points, how wide your stance is in the serve... and miss the important points. I'm sure no current pro learned by copying other guys. they just learned to play tennis and developed their own style.

Dimitrov because of Lundgren
---->
Playing style

Dimitrov is an all court player with a heavy emphasis on baseline play. He plays right-handed and employs a single-handed backhand. He considers the backhand down the line as his favorite shot and his favorite surfaces are hard court and grass.[1] Despite this he has had notable success on clay courts as well. His game has been often compared to Roger Federer's (earning him the nickname "Baby Fed") due to the similarity in their ground strokes, particularly off the backhand side. He manages to duplicate the fluid motions of Federer's forehand, backhand, serve and volley with relative ease, and has shown himself capable of performing shots that continue the comparisons between him and Federer. Dimitrov has stated however that he would like people to appreciate his game to himself and not Federer. Despite his recent improvement several areas, some people[who?] believe his movement and balance needs to be improved if he wants to reach the top of the game. His return of serve has also been cited as a weakness. His own serve has improved in the recent months, and is consistent and powerful, lacking a little bit in precision. His speed and hustle is quite remarkable from someone his age, but is noted that with his poor balance he is often falling over himself, running past balls and with an eagerness to reach every ball; tires himself out quickly.
--->from Wikipedia

efete
11-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Hi have never tried to have strokes like a pro.. I love how federer plays, but I cant do what he does.. big surprise there.. haha

but what I find usefull for me, its to look for pro players that have the strokes more similar to my own strokes.. and try to make small adjustments from them.. even if they are not my favorite players..

for example..
for my forehand. I use nalbandian as a model..
for my backhand I use for example to albert costa
for my serve.. its a mix between boris becker (body) and fernando gonzalez (arm)

I recorded my own strokes and then started to look for the pros slow motion videos on youtube.. and I selected the players that I can think my strokes can naturally improve if I take them as models for some details...

boramiNYC
11-27-2012, 11:44 AM
I agree. that's why I'm against copying strokes but learning the fundamental biomechanical priciples.

many guys try to copy players and get lost in unimportant things like where the wrist points, how wide your stance is in the serve... and miss the important points. I'm sure no current pro learned by copying other guys. they just learned to play tennis and developed their own style.

agree copying is over done. but observing pros technique is such an essential part of improving ones own technique I believe. as you say it's best to study anatomy and biomechanics but it sounds daunting and to most tennis is supposed to be fun. it all depends how serious one is about improving. in any case I'd encourage watching pros.

PhrygianDominant
11-29-2012, 12:05 AM
I have always said that one should look at what all the pros do, not just one. Although that is easier said than done. However, copying the pros is super fun, and I think it ultimately helps, even if it reaches the point of diminishing returns.

5263
11-29-2012, 09:30 AM
davydenko 2008.. amazing game for his size and physique

I like him for Fh as well, but Novak's Bh, Sampras serve, and I like Nadal's volleys and slices :)

I like Fed for all around and movement/balance, but no individual stroke and think Fed's volley is
way overrated in general.

Larrysümmers
11-29-2012, 11:09 AM
I think Tommy Haas is a perfect groundstroke model for players with a one handed backhand. I forgot to mention in my OP that his was the backhand I was modelling my onehander after before I switched.



If you only had to have one player Federer might be a good choice, but I agree that his volleys are not as great as some posters on this board would have you believe. On his forehand volley his shoulders are parallel to the net and he slices his backhand volley too much. I like Rafter for volleys, because of that Jeff Salzenstien tip, "keep your head close to your head"...



I hope you're not copying that wonky backhand! :shock:

of course i dont :oops:

PhrygianDominant
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
of course i dont :oops:

haha, good to hear ;-)

I was shadowing some strokes in front of the mirror the other day, and I noticed that my forehand has become more compact, especially on the back swing, but the extension is a lot better. I also don't pat the dog, as in my racquet is faceing the side fence, not the ground, before I start my swing to contact. I am not sure if I like it, but it has been better lately, so I am inclined not to mess with it.

I still get topspin on my forehand, my finish is around my upper arm/shoulder after being higher at extension.

I think this is interesting because I have been watching so much Agassi lately. His strokes are super compact. My backhand was already somewhere between him, Safin, and Ferrero. Now my forehand is more tidy. I don't think watching Agassi matches caused this, probably working on my footwork and hitting out in front did that, but still it is an interesting development.

tennis_balla
12-04-2012, 12:55 AM
Fabrice Santoro

Bobby Jr
12-04-2012, 01:16 AM
If you only had to have one player Federer might be a good choice, but I agree that his volleys are not as great as some posters on this board would have you believe. On his forehand volley his shoulders are parallel to the net and he slices his backhand volley too much. I like Rafter for volleys, because of that Jeff Salzenstien tip, "keep your head close to your head"..
Herein lies the issue with coaching volleying.

If Federer volleyed like Rafter he would have his arse handed to him on a plate. On most courts you can't hit classic Rafter-esque volleys anymore (deep and/or low) because modern strings and court conditions have tipped the field in favour of the player on the baseline. That is why Federer (and others) hits especially his backhand volley as he does - because short and angled generally works better in this environment. It means that he is not only hitting a different sort of volley but also aiming to win the point with that shot - unlike Rafter who would hit two volleys a lot more often than he could now. Where Rafter could make sure of the first volley > push-back, get them running or make them stoop and then take care of the second volley that wouldn't be as effective in this era, even if it does still work sometimes.

Federer's volley are fantastic but he misses a lot more than you'd hope - a significant part of that is because he's going for a lot more than Rafter (or Edberg or Sampras) needed to > the circumstances of this era dictate he has to.

PhrygianDominant
12-04-2012, 02:07 AM
Herein lies the issue with coaching volleying.

If Federer volleyed like Rafter he would have his arse handed to him on a plate. On most courts you can't hit classic Rafter-esque volleys anymore (deep and/or low) because modern strings and court conditions have tipped the field in favour of the player on the baseline. That is why Federer (and others) hits especially his backhand volley as he does - because short and angled generally works better in this environment. It means that he is not only hitting a different sort of volley but also aiming to win the point with that shot - unlike Rafter who would hit two volleys a lot more often than he could now. Where Rafter could make sure of the first volley > push-back, get them running or make them stoop and then take care of the second volley that wouldn't be as effective in this era, even if it does still work sometimes.

Federer's volley are fantastic but he misses a lot more than you'd hope - a significant part of that is because he's going for a lot more than Rafter (or Edberg or Sampras) needed to > the circumstances of this era dictate he has to.

Those are some good points. When choosing a model for volleys however, should we take into account that our opponents aren't as good as Federer's, and the situation dictates a little more security at net? I am saying that we may not have to do a sliced short angle first volley, depending on our level, if we can get it deep and make our opponents run it may win the point outright anyway. Just offering a counter argument, I am not a tennis professional, it is just my opinion.

anubis
12-04-2012, 05:05 AM
I try to model my strokes off of federer. But that's mostly because he still has one foot in "classic" tennis, since he's closer to my age. Still has that semi eastern grip, long fluid strokes without that enormous WW finish that some of the younger kids use.

I've always had a 1HBH so who better than he to model it off of? Other than Haas of course...

but mostly what I like about Fed is his footwork. If there's one thing that I'm constantly thinking of during play is trying to "float" on the court the way he does. It's like a work of art.