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Power Player
11-30-2012, 12:37 PM
The more I have drilled my footwork, the more prep time I have and the better my strokes have gotten. I played a flatter hitting guy last night where I was able to hit deep shots CC and DTL safely. They were bouncing about a foot or so in the baseline on average and I was getting confident enough to place the ball closer to the lines. I have played and hit with this guy many times, and this was the most lopsided play in my favor to date.

It felt like I finally had evolved from the high trajectory- pin them back with topspin - force short balls style that I had played before. I find that better players see that style so much that it does not phase them. It is more like the Rafa defensive style that can wear you down, especially if your opponent knows how to take them early. I have gone more to the Djoker style of attacking with lower trajectory and more precise placement. Obviously none of us are on that level of play, but at least this provides a good visual.

This was one guy, but the more I have adapted this style, the better I have been playing. I play guys from 4.0 to 5.0 since my clubs set me up with different players.

What works for you?

r2473
11-30-2012, 12:44 PM
I use your old style

....and better players pound the hell out of me (just like you say).

Power Player
11-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Are you back on the courts and healed up?

r2473
11-30-2012, 12:50 PM
Ya, I'd say I'm back to normal.

While I was healing I ran a ton of miles. I can "moonball" for hours now :)

Power Player
11-30-2012, 12:56 PM
Nice..defensive tennis. I know and appreciate this style :)

LeeD
11-30-2012, 01:10 PM
I can lose badly with almost any style, but my least effective losing style is when I concentrate within, hit my shots loose and flowing, hit the first forcing shot, and flow around the court, rather than lumber around the courts.
Now this doesn't always have to be about winning, but rather, playing well or playing badly.

PhrygianDominant
11-30-2012, 01:29 PM
Fun Thread, ok I'll bite.

I am enamoured and obsessed with power and attacking. However, I win more when I focus on placement and play from the baseline, within myself. I wanted to be an all courter and hit winners all the time, but I am built more like a baseliner. I do better when I am channeling Agassi, Nalbandian, and Ferrero(Tactical Baseline) than some of my other favorites such as Federer and Haas(baseline/allcourt...attacking baseline?) , Soderling (Powermonger), or Gonzalez and Blake (Hit that Forehand!....Again! Again!!!!).

NLBwell
11-30-2012, 02:02 PM
When I actually was a good player, playing open level, my game consisted primarily of serving and not having the ball come back. On retrun of serve, I would be being aggressive on the serve return and hope I could win 4 out of 6 points at least once out of 6 return games.

Kind of an Ivo Karlovic plan.

lodeen
11-30-2012, 02:04 PM
PP, that guy you played is good at the baseline handling medium paced balls, but when he is faced with heavy paced balls, his game will start to collapse. I played him a few times in matches and all I do is overpower him from the baseline with heavy topspin left and right.

But this style does not work for me against all players so I change my style according to my opponents. Although my fav is baseline bashing.

Btw, the Mad Doc & I went over to chat with that sexy legs woman after she was done with her league match. It helps to have a cute dog to break the ice! lol

Power Player
11-30-2012, 02:08 PM
PP, that guy you played is good at the baseline handling medium paced balls, but when he is faced with heavy paced balls, his game will start to collapse. I played him a few times in matches and all I do is overpower him from the baseline with heavy topspin left and right.

But this style does not work for me against all players so I change my style according to my opponents. Although my fav is baseline bashing.

Btw, the Mad Doc & I went over to chat with that sexy legs woman after she was done with her league match. It helps to have a cute dog to break the ice! lol


nice! how did it go? she was freaking hot in that outfit

bad_call
11-30-2012, 04:00 PM
^ and here i'm taking a little time off to let the elbow heal, hence stuck in the brew house. :mrgreen:

mikeler
11-30-2012, 05:22 PM
The thread question is:

Your most successful style/ strategy for wins in tennis?

I think the biggest thing I've learned over the years is not to be stubborn. People would say "If you play your game, it won't matter what the other guy does". Unfortunately, playing casual tennis you are not going to be grooved every single match. So start out with your "A" game and see what happens. If you have to hit some shorter balls, come to net more, float a few slices, throw up some moon balls then so be it. I'm not married to any 1 strategy except winning.

Most players prefer pace. It's amazing how you can drill balls at guys and it comes back even harder. Throw up a puffer and all of a sudden the other guy can look lost out there.

Power Player
11-30-2012, 05:26 PM
You are right. Those slow balls expose poor footwork and balance. You can pound the ball and get away with bad footwork sometimes. I have played a guy who eats up pace with slice and no pace balls. Only recently have I been able to punish him enough for it to where he will stop no pacing.

ATP100
11-30-2012, 05:28 PM
The thread question is:

Your most successful style/ strategy for wins in tennis?

I think the biggest thing I've learned over the years is not to be stubborn. People would say "If you play your game, it won't matter what the other guy does". Unfortunately, playing casual tennis you are not going to be grooved every single match. So start out with your "A" game and see what happens. If you have to hit some shorter balls, come to net more, float a few slices, throw up some moon balls then so be it. I'm not married to any 1 strategy except winning.

Most players prefer pace. It's amazing how you can drill balls at guys and it comes back even harder. Throw up a puffer and all of a sudden the other guy can look lost out there.


This is the reason I teach start out with "B" game against strangers.
Let's see what we are up against.

y11971alex
11-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Against other 3.5 players, I think S&V is the best tactic as most people (in my community) overhit severely (so that judgment is no issue) and a pass is not a concern at all. If you anticipate well the lob and get the first volley in then you're set. Unless, of course, you play another S&V player.

I particularly prize my lob for its dependability yards behind the baseline. I don't attempt a pass at a ball beyond the service line unless it's a wrong-foot pass.

mikeler
11-30-2012, 05:47 PM
This is the reason I teach start out with "B" game against strangers.
Let's see what we are up against.

I like the way you think!

Ballinbob
11-30-2012, 05:56 PM
My strategy for winning is hitting heavy topspin cross court repeatedly. If my opponent decides to go DTL, I redirect it CC . If I get a short ball I'll hit DTL for a winner. basically, just play the percentages

I keep it simple haha. It's not a very exciting style of play but it works

Hi I'm Ray
11-30-2012, 07:10 PM
I vary my game and shots depending on the opponent, from being mostly on the attack, to staying agressive but consistent and waiting for errors, or go from a mostly baseline game to volleying. What works against one player, another may eat up. I try to prevent them from using their strengths and I go after their weak points.

Some things don't change though, such as no one does well against smart targets.

Avles
11-30-2012, 07:39 PM
At this point my most successful strategy seems to be this:

-slice slice slice
-retrieve everything
-bring opponent forward with low slices (not quite drop shots)
-come to net and challenge opponent to pass or lob (hoping for the pass attempt)
-throw up moonballs to reset point when inevitably pushed off court by aggressive groundstrokes
-avoid DFs
-chip/block returns, either high and deep or short and low
-if possible, receive second serves from well inside the baseline to pressure opponent and encourage DF

Basically, be annoying.

This seems to work pretty well at my level (3.5ish), particularly against impatient or slower opponents. Against stronger players who are hitting their targets, I start to feel like a punching bag.

TomT
11-30-2012, 09:43 PM
The more I have drilled my footwork, the more prep time I have and the better my strokes have gotten. I played a flatter hitting guy last night where I was able to hit deep shots CC and DTL safely. They were bouncing about a foot or so in the baseline on average and I was getting confident enough to place the ball closer to the lines. I have played and hit with this guy many times, and this was the most lopsided play in my favor to date.

It felt like I finally had evolved from the high trajectory- pin them back with topspin - force short balls style that I had played before. I find that better players see that style so much that it does not phase them. It is more like the Rafa defensive style that can wear you down, especially if your opponent knows how to take them early. I have gone more to the Djoker style of attacking with lower trajectory and more precise placement. Obviously none of us are on that level of play, but at least this provides a good visual.

This was one guy, but the more I have adapted this style, the better I have been playing. I play guys from 4.0 to 5.0 since my clubs set me up with different players.

What works for you?Post some vids. I would love to see your game, and feel sure that I could learn something.

As for your question, well, check out my sig. :) I actually do play 4.0 and above players from time to time. The warmup usually goes quite well. After that it's pretty much downhill for me. :)

Recently played a solid 4.0 guy. Actually won a couple of games, and I think I made him work a bit in a few other games. How did I win the games I won? Hard first serves went in, was hitting some really hard, slightly undercut driving approach shots that were clearing the net by inches, landing deep and skidding real low, and didn't screw up the volleys. :) But of course I can't do that consistently on most points.

Should have made some vids of that match, but didn't anticipate playing as well as I did. As it turned out my level of play was elevated by my opponent's level of play. In the end we were both pleased with the result. Me, because I thought I played pretty well, and him because he won pretty decisively. The old stuff seems to be steadily, but slowly, coming back.

sansaephanh
12-01-2012, 02:29 AM
win? whats that?

Rock Strongo
12-01-2012, 02:52 AM
Hit massive. If that doesn't work, hit even harder. That's probably why I don't win anything!

TimothyO
12-01-2012, 04:40 AM
The thread question is:

Your most successful style/ strategy for wins in tennis?

Most players prefer pace. It's amazing how you can drill balls at guys and it comes back even harder. Throw up a puffer and all of a sudden the other guy can look lost out there.

Well said!

At low and mid level trying to blast an opponent off the court on every shot mostly results in balls coming back and you donating pts with UE eventually.

I find the following works well:

Consistency: first goal...get the ball over the net deep cross court...do nothing else at low to mid level and against most impatient males who try to emulate Nadal you'll win

Variety: Show them different speeds, spins, and placement...don't let them develop any rythm...trying to blast every shot only makes them happy

Precise Placement: this is how you get a lot of high percentage winners at this level...keep the shot low below the net with no pace making your opponent run to return it...he'll usually flub it or cough up a floater while off balance on the run

Patient Pace: be patient and go for the big winners only on true opportunity balls in your strike zone and with your opponent out of position or off balance...otherwise you're incurring needless risk and serving as a ball machine for hitting practice...don't delude youself into thinking you're an ATP player! Do this with patience and you'll look a lot better than you really are thus demoralizing the opponent

In short, be a consistent pusher/retriever hitting deep cross court, serve up junk balls with great variety to generate UEs from opponent, and reserve your offensive big shots for high percentage situations to break your opponent's spirit while reducing your own UEs. Win ugly! :)

djinni999
12-01-2012, 07:09 AM
the question, on a deeper level, is actually meaningless. the best style for winning is the style you can actually play. no one plays their style in order to lose.
that said, there is a hierarchy of playing styles. ranging from pushing to all-court. if you are, say, an all-courter you will win most easily playing this style, regardless of your opponent; provided that mentally and physically you are at a high enough performance level with respect to your capacity.
if you can only pull off counter-punching, then this will be the most effective style for winning, simply because you can't play a style that is above this in the hierarchy; similarly, why play the pusher game in this example? you will not win more easily or at all.
taking offensive initiative is great. it's what works best in tennis and many other sports. but if you are not good at it then it will be detrimental due to the risks, percentages, inconsistencies, etc.

what is more interesting and profound is the issue of how to play when confronted with adverse circumstances: poor form, lack of practice, match practice, particular shots that seem to have abandoned you, etc. coupled with the attributes of the opponent you are facing. then an all-courter may achieve bigger gains by reverting to, say, counter-punching. but this shift can only work in one direction - downwards; ie, it is highly unrealistic for a pusher to attempt serve and volley : ) , the poor fellow is hopeless, there is no lower style he can fall back on.

Power Player
12-01-2012, 07:45 AM
I dont think the question is meaningless if you are talking rec tennis. I feel like certain styles may yield better results at the 4.0 and up level. This is the area when pushing gets harder to do and you have to start hitting out and setting that shot up more.

For example, attacking the backhand works at a lot of levels, and i do that myself, but relying on mistakes from the opponent and trying to open up the court more with angles is when things get a little deeper. If you hit heavy looping spin it gives time back to the opponent as opposed to risking a little more, hitting lower trajectory balls.

Ballinbob
12-01-2012, 11:06 AM
I dont think the question is meaningless if you are talking rec tennis. I feel like certain styles may yield better results at the 4.0 and up level. This is the area when pushing gets harder to do and you have to start hitting out and setting that shot up more.

For example, attacking the backhand works at a lot of levels, and i do that myself, but relying on mistakes from the opponent and trying to open up the court more with angles is when things get a little deeper. If you hit heavy looping spin it gives time back to the opponent as opposed to risking a little more, hitting lower trajectory balls.

But why take the risk? Heavy looping topspin is not easy to attack at all IMO unless it is short. Hitting heavy spin CC is a very safe shot and difficult to attack which is why its a very popular style of play. Also if use 5623's smart targets and hit some sharper CC with your topspin, not only will you not miss as much, you'll run your opponent into the ground

Tennis is a percentages game. It's all about the percentages

Power Player
12-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Like i said in my first post, it matters the level you are playing at. What you are describing does not work as well the better guys you play. Its just not that simple any more to loop spin unless you are in amazing shape and an constantly hit very heavy looping shots for 2 hours. Id rather mix it in a little and vary trajectories.

Also the smart targets are great spots to hit at, and are the places i am putting the ball as well many times. A great way to attack those areas are with lower trajectories because you take away time and put the ball in a challenging spot.

Finally the increased risk does not mean i am hitting at top speed. It is not high risk, it is just a little increased to apply more pressure.

Just hitting crosscourt is safe, and i do it sometimes, but if you can expand to inside out on the other side, and hit your fh and bh dtl as well, you gain a big advantage in rec tennis. A solid dtl backhand is a game changer.

LeeD
12-01-2012, 01:38 PM
Kinda depends who you're playing and his level compared to yours.
Playing a superior player AND baseliner, you will LOSE every CC exchange.
Playing a superior player and net charger, you will win most exchanges.
Playing an inferior player.....
And usually, my backhand against YOUR forehand, me lefty, me lose.

vil
12-01-2012, 04:22 PM
It's hard to answer in one sentence, because different opponents means different winning tactics. But if I was to summarize it somehow what worked for me, there were always two major advantages that helped me to beat even better players. I was always super fit and I could run the balls for hours and never felt tired. I've done some long distance running in the past even one ultramarathon. It's amazing what fitness does to you. Not only you can run but your eye contact with the ball, anticipation and concentration level improves big time.
The other thing is, I'm a lefty.
I'm a bit older now not as fit as I used to be but I'm doing OK. My game has changed a bit and from a defence to offence player, I became a bit of all rounder trying to shorten points whenever I can.

Power Player
12-01-2012, 04:27 PM
It's hard to answer in one sentence, because different opponents means different winning tactics. But if I was to summarize it somehow what worked for me, there were always two major advantages that helped me to beat even better players. I was always super fit and I could run the balls for hours and never felt tired. I've done some long distance running in the past even one ultramarathon. It's amazing what fitness does to you. Not only you can run but your eye contact with the ball, anticipation and concentration level improves big time.
The other thing is, I'm a lefty.
I'm a bit older now not as fit as I used to be but I'm doing OK. My game has changed a bit and from a defence to offence player, I became a bit of all rounder trying to shorten points whenever I can.

Very legit styles that work though. Being really fit gives you the confidence to hit safer and extend a point longer each time. I have gotten in much better shape as well, and i also really like what atp 100 said. Come out and play a B game and just see if the guy can attack those balls before you start bashing.

LeeD
12-01-2012, 04:28 PM
Post 22...
It's strange, but I've tried the strategy of hitting hard, then harder...
I almost always lose the match.
Most times, I win more points that way, but lose the match still.
So what is more important? Match or individual points?

Ballinbob
12-01-2012, 04:33 PM
The cross court strategy is winning me 75% of my matches at the 4.5 level, so it definitely is a viable strategy at higher levels. I am a pretty fit guy which helps I guess, as hitting those types of shots is tiring.

You are right about mixing it up and your also right that a good BH DTL is a game changer, but unless the DTL is a really good one, you will be in trouble because its pretty easy to redirect it CC and put you on the run.

Vil has a good point about fitness too, I agree

In the end, its whatever works for YOU really

LeeD
12-01-2012, 04:38 PM
Geez, I'd hate the give up the net advantage of being 6'3" tall and quick/fast with young eyes and reflexes.
Just wasted on a baseliner game.
That's like being 6'3", but not pummelling your opponent's with a big effective serve.

vil
12-01-2012, 04:57 PM
It's always tempting to get into the race "who can hit harder forehand" at the exchange. I was trying to force myself not falling into that trap and just kept hitting with moderate pace and hit the hard one only on my terms and viable situation.

Ballinbob
12-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Geez, I'd hate the give up the net advantage of being 6'3" tall and quick/fast with young eyes and reflexes.
Just wasted on a baseliner game.
That's like being 6'3", but not pummelling your opponent's with a big effective serve.

Haha that is still part of my game I need to work on. Transitioning to the net is not my forte. I pretty much just hit a big kick serve as a first serve and then rely on my groundstrokes.

My net game itself I feel is okay-ish actually, but my approach shots need work. I understand I'm supposed to slice DTL then follow it in and cover the DTL pass, but I feel clumsy moving forward and for some reason I feel the need to do too much with the first volley. I do want to be able to finish more points at the net though, thats a goal of mine for these next 2 months

Ballinbob
12-01-2012, 04:59 PM
It's always tempting to get into the race "who can hit harder forehand" at the exchange. I was trying to force myself not falling into that trap and just kept hitting with moderate pace and hit the hard one only on my terms and viable situation.

SO many people fall for that trap. Just focus on depth and placement and the rest will come.

LeeD
12-01-2012, 05:02 PM
Don't you usually get a high, floating deep return after you serve? That would be how most 4.5's would handle returning a top of the head high kicker serve.
That ball is signature material for you coming to net and pummelling the first volley into a corner for a clean winner.
And yes, lots of very good players have problems moving forwards into the transition all court game. Guys like Querry, Isner, DelPo, Berdyck, all look a little out of sorts moving in behind approach shots, as did Roddick.
Just another avenue to explore on your way to 5.5.

vil
12-01-2012, 05:34 PM
Some people just have that inborn intuition, without explaining, they know when and how to approach the net at the right time. For me, transition was always on the menu in a kind of kamikadze style:) It was always do or die. Yet, I know players that can do it more naturally than I can. I can hit volley from both wings no problem but just to be in the right moment and the position for it, is a bit of an art. Can you teach me that?....I don't think so :) It's like trying to teach old dog to walk backwards.

LeeD
12-01-2012, 05:50 PM
From you vids, you approach straight up the middle, same spin and pace as your groundies to groove your partner to hit a great passing shot.
Should be better if you changed the spin and speed, hit to a open corner deep, and then move to service line position to await the reply.

vil
12-02-2012, 03:13 AM
From you vids, you approach straight up the middle, same spin and pace as your groundies to groove your partner to hit a great passing shot.
Should be better if you changed the spin and speed, hit to a open corner deep, and then move to service line position to await the reply.

Yeah, I know what you mean but that's when I feel like a sitting duck at times The other
day I played a guy (a friend of mine) who used to be top junior and was in the same squad with Pat Rafter. This guy hasn't played tennis for a few years but about 2 years ago he got the bug and started playing again. He is younger than me but plays doubles competitively. (pity I can't have him as a hitting partner more often) I had a hit with him and boy didn't he improve from the last time I played him. His shots were so accurate and penetrating that I had to work really hard to create some winning chances. It feels very intense, playing somebody like that. So needless to say, if I just poked the ball in the corner and come to the service line I would get passed. The volley has to have some velocity to cause any harm against players like this. Anything they can get their hands on it, you are in trouble.

2ManyAces
12-02-2012, 06:16 AM
I tend to take the ball early with high trajectory topspin balls into the corners. I just rally it out until I get a short ball, then rip it and come to net.

defense is easier for me but offense will help me win more.

Power Player
12-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Post some vids. I would love to see your game, and feel sure that I could learn something.

As for your question, well, check out my sig. :) I actually do play 4.0 and above players from time to time. The warmup usually goes quite well. After that it's pretty much downhill for me. :)

Recently played a solid 4.0 guy. Actually won a couple of games, and I think I made him work a bit in a few other games. How did I win the games I won? Hard first serves went in, was hitting some really hard, slightly undercut driving approach shots that were clearing the net by inches, landing deep and skidding real low, and didn't screw up the volleys. :) But of course I can't do that consistently on most points.

Should have made some vids of that match, but didn't anticipate playing as well as I did. As it turned out my level of play was elevated by my opponent's level of play. In the end we were both pleased with the result. Me, because I thought I played pretty well, and him because he won pretty decisively. The old stuff seems to be steadily, but slowly, coming back.

Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

vil
12-02-2012, 06:17 PM
Nice hitting mate,:) I like your forehand, looks effortlessly dangerous.

LeeD
12-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Can't wait for the match play vids, to show alley to alley, and short court coverages and hitting.

Power Player
12-02-2012, 06:25 PM
Nice hitting mate,:) I like your forehand, looks effortlessly dangerous.

Thanks! Its coming along rather decently now. Always has been my main stroke. My backhand has a little hitch I need to work on.

Can't wait for the match play vids, to show alley to alley, and short court coverages and hitting.

Same here. We have some real nice rallies in match play. Especially on har-tru, which makes his shots even tougher to get on top of.

Djoker91
12-02-2012, 07:31 PM
Hitting flat and on the rise, but with enough restraint to keep it in and place it. Approach shots are much better. Volley away the winner at net. Rinse and repeat. Pretty soon confidence grows, as the match goes on further, I hit clean winners from baseline.

TheCheese
12-02-2012, 07:52 PM
This is the reason I teach start out with "B" game against strangers.
Let's see what we are up against.

Really interesting tactic. I like it.

TomT
12-02-2012, 08:22 PM
Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4QThanks much for the vids PP. Now I know what you're talking about. Very nice, fluid modern strokes. Especially forehand. Great movement and preparation. Yes, I can definitely learn from this. Whether I would ever be able to hit like you do is doubtful. Ok, pretty much impossible -- but still a good example. You're very strong.

I got the impression from reading some of your posts that you were older than you seem in the vids. How old?

Anyway, yes, I would have to say that your strokes are better than anybody I hit with or have played against, except maybe one or two guys.

A pleasure to watch. Post more vids PP. You're really good and I bet lots of people here can learn by your example and what you have to say about how you play and how you learned it. :) Thanks.

And of course, my usual solicitation, please, everybody post more vids. :)

anubis
12-03-2012, 08:43 AM
For me, my biggest bump in win/loss records happened when I finally figured out my own "magic combination" of the proper equipment: racquet, strings and tension. Once I was able to keep the ball in play more often, that allowed me to move the ball around more on the court. In the past, I could never hit more than 2 balls in a row during a match. I'd have 40+ UE's per singles match.

now that I'm using the right equipment, I have 10 to 15 per match. I haven't changed the way that I play. My forehand/backhand and serve are all the same.

kiteboard
12-03-2012, 09:28 AM
For me, my biggest bump in win/loss records happened when I finally figured out my own "magic combination" of the proper equipment: racquet, strings and tension. Once I was able to keep the ball in play more often, that allowed me to move the ball around more on the court. In the past, I could never hit more than 2 balls in a row during a match. I'd have 40+ UE's per singles match.

now that I'm using the right equipment, I have 10 to 15 per match. I haven't changed the way that I play. My forehand/backhand and serve are all the same.

Listen to this guy. The voice of reason. Why do you think every pro is so focused on exactly what he just typed?

Power Player
12-03-2012, 10:40 AM
Thanks much for the vids PP. Now I know what you're talking about. Very nice, fluid modern strokes. Especially forehand. Great movement and preparation. Yes, I can definitely learn from this. Whether I would ever be able to hit like you do is doubtful. Ok, pretty much impossible -- but still a good example. You're very strong.

I got the impression from reading some of your posts that you were older than you seem in the vids. How old?

Anyway, yes, I would have to say that your strokes are better than anybody I hit with or have played against, except maybe one or two guys.

A pleasure to watch. Post more vids PP. You're really good and I bet lots of people here can learn by your example and what you have to say about how you play and how you learned it. :) Thanks.

And of course, my usual solicitation, please, everybody post more vids. :)

Thanks for the kind words. I learned from the videos myself. Saw my backhand hitch I was feeling once I slowed the video down. I need to point the buttcap at the ground on the take back before swinging to contact. In shadow swinging, this already feels much more natural.

I agree about equipment as well. I am using a stock Blade 98 with a tight pattern. even though I hit with a lot of spin and conventional wisdom would say to hit with an open pattern, I find that I have much more control with this setup. I also can string at solid tension of 49/52 poly/syn gut. The lighter weight still gives me a lot of spin, but the ball kicks at the opponent more instead of straight up. When you hit an approach that kicks forward, it many times becomes a winner, as opposed to having it kick straight up and hang in the same spot longer.

TomT
12-03-2012, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I learned from the videos myself. Saw my backhand hitch I was feeling once I slowed the video down. I need to point the buttcap at the ground on the take back before swinging to contact. In shadow swinging, this already feels much more natural.
Well your backhand looked very good to me also. Wish I could hit like that. Watched another vid of yours at YouTube ... camera behind Craig. He looks good too, but I like your strokes better. I imagine you guys have some pretty good matches together.

Another question: what grip do you use on your forehand?

Greg G
12-03-2012, 02:29 PM
Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

Nice forehand PP! Picked up some tips for my own forehand..need a bit more PTD, like yours :)

watungga
12-05-2012, 03:48 PM
Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

Your starting feed is very stiff.

You may have volleying problems with it. Opponents will break you by putting you on the net.

Cheetah
12-05-2012, 04:20 PM
Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

pretty good.
I like how your not lazy on your feet.

Want a good tip that will help you?

LeeD
12-05-2012, 04:34 PM
You mean besides losing some weight, and staying down on 1hbh slices?

floridatennisdude
12-05-2012, 05:11 PM
I test my opponent from the first point to figure out how I can get them to hit me short balls. Once I figure this out, I do it for 2-3 sets.

LeeD
12-05-2012, 05:34 PM
I guess there is the theory side talkiing here, and also the practical application side.....
As an injured, slow, blind, old, weak fart, I cannot ever beat someone who outruns every ball I hit, so I have to hit it better and better, until I beat myself.
Same me, young big hitter, I cannot match power and speed, so have to with better placement and smarter placements, until I beat myself hitting too close to the lines.
Against another 63 year old slow guy, I can hit 60% on my shots, and win most of them, so why try to play at 90%, and beat myself?
In tennis, as in life, you have to analyse, adapt, and perform the shots you need to win, and it's different for different opponent's and situations.

Power Player
12-05-2012, 06:00 PM
Your starting feed is very stiff.

You may have volleying problems with it. Opponents will break you by putting you on the net.

Thats a really interesting observation that i agree with. I have never had an opponent really put me at the net though. I get to my approaches well.


pretty good.
I like how your not lazy on your feet.

Want a good tip that will help you?

Sure. I already see that i am letting go of the racquet a little early sometimes and i have fixed that. Fire away with what you got.

I really want to see your strokes. When are you going to post some vid?

Power Player
12-05-2012, 06:03 PM
You mean besides losing some weight, and staying down on 1hbh slices?

My body fat is around 12% right now.. Hw much weight do i need to lose? I am fast around the court, have visible abs and eat well. Basically i will have to drop muscle and for some reason that is not very easy to do.

Power Player
12-05-2012, 06:07 PM
Well your backhand looked very good to me also. Wish I could hit like that. Watched another vid of yours at YouTube ... camera behind Craig. He looks good too, but I like your strokes better. I imagine you guys have some pretty good matches together.

Another question: what grip do you use on your forehand?

I use in between a semi western and a western. Kind of vary it between the 2 according to the shot.

eidolonshinobi
12-05-2012, 07:39 PM
If I play anyone around the 3.5 - 4.0 (worked on some 4.5s) I will serve and volley them all day errday. Or bait them to the net where 99% of them feel uncomfortable.

My go too play is to mix up the spins and pace of each shot. When they go for my backhand I like to go CC on backhands with theirs and wait for the opportunity to hit an inside out/in on FH and close in at the net.

Power Player
12-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Much respect to the s&v game!

Cheetah
12-05-2012, 07:50 PM
i was going to post some vids in the summer but then my business began dying so I decided not to buy a camera. I might buy myself one for the holidays.

Anyway, ... strokes look good. see any area of balance you could improve on?

Power Player
12-06-2012, 05:46 AM
Yes, backhand gets wonky on the balance.

maggmaster
12-06-2012, 07:05 AM
I watched a Pat Rafter match and then played a 4.5 yesterday. I decided to see what it would be like to kick every serve in and come in after a lot of them. I felt like I was playing speed tennis, just chucking everything at the wall to see what sticks. It was the most fun I have had playing tennis in a long time. I lost 4 and 5 but I think I am going to perfect this.

boramiNYC
12-06-2012, 07:35 AM
nice hitting pp, your fh resembles roddick fh me thinks. less stepping in, more open stance, and feel the pull in the waist during trunk rotation more, slightly less arm swing until trunk rotation gains more range of motion. stretch abs and oblique. nice loose arm and hand. good luck.

Cheetah
12-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Yes, backhand gets wonky on the balance.

yea true. i only comment on 1hbh's though.
Ok, your fh...

Looks pretty good. You've got all the good elements going on in there. I hope I can explain this in an intelligible manner...

As I was watching your fh I couldn't help but notice something was 'off'. Took me a while to pinpoint but then I figured out that it was the end of your swing on the follow through that looks funny. If a follow through looks funny then that means something else previous to that was the culprit right? You've got this nice setup, some ssc action, good contact, everything looks good and then it sort of dies at the very end.

The issue is the left arm and the effect on balance. I've had this same issue before w/ the same symptoms and a former world class junior gave me this tip and fixed me up. (this guy has beaten berdych when he was 16).

Now I know what you're thinking, "yea whatever. cheetah is gona give me the usual schtick about the left arm that I already know...".
But this is a little different.

I can see that you know to use the left arm but there are a lot of times when your left arm does not pull over and it's left across your chest and you get the arms-crossing thing. Other times the left pulls across but it's not really 'doing anything'. kind of just going along for the ride. These 2 situations affect balance. balance is king.

Your fw is good, setup is good, initial balance is good, swing path and point of contact, extension all good but the left arm is left picking up kinetic scraps or getting in the way. Why is that? The reason is because you're doing it, excuse me here,.. wrong. There is a better way. The way you are doing it does not contribute to the swing and goes against balance during the swing therefore your brain is saying 'wth? i don't like this. why are you forcing me to do this?'

The Fix:
You need to bring the left arm across in a way that maintains balance and symmetry. I'd bet that currently when you think about the pulling the left arm over you are thinking something along the lines of 'pull the left arm in'. So if the left arm was pointing to the side fence parallel to the baseline and you pulled it in it would follow a path roughly parallel to the baseline. Am I right? That's why you get the arms crossed sometimes. it gives up after a certain point and just lays there. So you have your torso's center of mass, a right arm extended out to the right of the body and a left arm just dangling there. Bye bye balance.

What you need to do is instead of pulling the left arm 'in' -- is to think more along the lines of 'pulling it over'. Not a straight pull across but more of a 'pull over and around'. You have to mimic the position of the right arm. You can do this by giving more abduction to your shoulder on your left arm. (more space between the arm and body, elbow extended away from the body)

Look at Fed in this segment in the following vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDJJS3d2N1c&t=6m48s

See how his left arm is in a similar position to the right arm? Notice how natural and balanced and powerful that looks? He has more shoulder abduction in the left shoulder than you. It's the same amount as his right arm, same angle. Left elbow is away from the body.

Notice that all good players have this 'square box' look.
Safin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StVULV2N3l0&t=5s
Roddick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-D32RwsD_w&t=10s
Djoko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq09yHPmKh0
Verdasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkyL5XF1QO4
Blake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyQ0eP0Eh0&t=44s
Kohlschreiber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyQ0eP0Eh0&t=1m22s
Nadal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQvbT8uEGk&t=25s
Henin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBioEMX2IdM
Agassi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnnKt_SeJ6s

Their arms and shoulders move together as a unit. It looks like a machine. Their chests looks expanded. Yours looks collapsed.

If you grab a racquet and shadow swing this movement you're going to feel a difference right away on the 1st swing. It will feel 'right'. You'll also notice that at the contact point you will feel more stable and balanced. The body won't feel tugged off balance which you probably didn't notice before but you will now when you see the difference.

One thing this method gives you in addition to better balance, is more power. You will feel that your left arm now plays a more active role in the swing. You will feel both of your shoulders are now engaged instead of just the right shoulder. Also you will see that with the correct pull of the left arm in this position that it will stretch your pectoral and shoulder muscles. This stretch will give you more rhs.
You will also notice that the entire swing feels better.
Also once I learned this I found that it was instantly incorporated into my swing. I didn't have to work on building the muscle memory for it... as if my brain approved, was happy, and picked it up right away.

Give it a try with some shadow swings and you'll see what I mean.

Power Player
12-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Dude, awesome. I know exactly what you are saying and literally every time I hit the ball and my left hand is still across my body or in a weird position, I get ticked off. I appreciate it, let me see if I can get this grooving tonight.

Just looked at my forehand again and it is so clear as day - it looks hideous..lol. I must fix this asap.

Cheetah
12-06-2012, 02:15 PM
Dude, awesome. I know exactly what you are saying and literally every time I hit the ball and my left hand is still across my body or in a weird position, I get ticked off. I appreciate it, let me see if I can get this grooving tonight.

Just looked at my forehand again and it is so clear as day - it looks hideous..lol. I must fix this asap.

cool. the best thing about this is that you'll pick it up right away. the noticeable difference in feel is so strong and positive that you'll just start doing it. you won't have to 'practice' it.

sundaypunch
12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
^^^^

This looks like a good tip. Not something I had thought about but I'm going to give it a try as well.

Power Player
12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
It worked. I was doing this months ago and just lost it, but i played for a couple hours tonight and got it going again. I noticed that the best part is under pressure it is easier to hit big shots. I also noticed more spin and pace as well. Good stuff. It will be obvious next time i film.

Cheetah
12-06-2012, 08:48 PM
It worked. I was doing this months ago and just lost it, but i played for a couple hours tonight and got it going again. I noticed that the best part is under pressure it is easier to hit big shots. I also noticed more spin and pace as well. Good stuff. It will be obvious next time i film.

Nice. I know what you mean by shots under pressure. You can use the left arm more in these situations and more of the bigger muscles (shoulders and chest) get activated and soak up the heaviness / pressure and allow you to get better pace and spin w/o swinging like crazy.

TheCheese
12-06-2012, 08:58 PM
yea true. i only comment on 1hbh's though.
Ok, your fh...

...
...
...

Give it a try with some shadow swings and you'll see what I mean.

In other words, bring your left arm like in like you're going to catch the racket.

Power Player
12-06-2012, 08:59 PM
Yep, the key part was when you said open up the chest. Once i read that, i remembered the proper feel and then just had to do it a bunch of times to make it a habit again.

Power Player
12-06-2012, 09:00 PM
In other words, bring your left arm like in like you're going to catch the racket.

Kind of, but thats not the way to think about it..at least for me.

Cheetah
12-06-2012, 09:10 PM
In other words, bring your left arm like in like you're going to catch the racket.

no.
catching implies waiting and most likely not moving. the arms move together in symmetry with similar amounts of abduction on each side. balance is the key. not catching. and also the important part is the movement of the left arm during the swing. not at the end of the swing during the 'catch'.

chico9166
12-07-2012, 01:53 AM
You mean besides losing some weight, and staying down on 1hbh slices?

I'm amazed at how consistently wrong you're about things...Wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't come from such a position of self proclaimed expertise....

You know what lats are? Got any idea what kind of work it takes to develop a back like the OP is sportin? He is strong as hell, and possesses really good feet. What the hell are you talking about...

LeeD
12-07-2012, 10:43 AM
You are sooo far off base, you barely deserve a reply.
Lats. I'm a surfer, have surfed for 25 years 6 days a week. Nobody who doesn't train has lats nearly like mine. Everyone who sees me with my shirt off asks if I work out. I don't. Even current 6 day a week surfers don't have more definitive lats, and usually smaller.
On a Cybex machine, there are TWO lat pull machines. I weigh right around 147 lbs. I lat pull on both usually 190 lbs. 50 reps. To tell you relative weight, I bicept curl 50 lbs., tricept curl 50, and shoulder press on both machines only 30 lbs., 30 reps each. My lats are waaay stronger than most people who weigh 190 lbs.
I suck at tennis, I'll agree. I'm inconsistent and often walkabout. You can criticise me all you want on those two points, and I'll accept it.
But don't talk to me about lats, or fitness. I'm 5'11" and 147 lbs at 63 years, 10 months.
Power Player and I would be close, if he hit normal as I would. He would crush me playing dink and drop/lob tennis, as I can't run. If he dropped 12 lbs., he would be a much better player.
I played over 12 A/Open tourneys, can handle pace. I'm a low 4.5 doubles player, closer to top of the line before bump up 3.5 singles player...because I have two torn tendons on the top of my left foot.

Power Player
12-07-2012, 10:58 AM
Lee, I'd love to play you for the sake of the forums' entertainment. I cant remember the last time I have lost to a 3.5 player in singles to be honest. There are a lot of great older players here who can hang, but they all have speed and footwork and play at a 4.5 level still.

I am not just a guy who hits for pace. I value placement over that and like to hit into either corner with my strokes. So you need to be able to run side to side, and from the sampling I saw of you walking, I dont think that is going to happen throughout a match.

Anyway, why you keep posting and telling me we would have a close match is beyond me because I never posted video to really have hypothetical matches with people on the web. Who knows, maybe you would smoke me and teach me something, but I play some amazing older guys who eat up pace, hit impeccable droppers and still retained good footspeed, so I wouldnt be taken by surprise.

Since we live on opposite coasts, this is probably never going to happen so it is a waste of time to think that much about.

With all that aside, I am interested in the 12 pounds. Where did this number come from and what do I gain from this? I'd love to drop 12 pounds if it will help my tennis, but it will cost me some muscle in the process. Like I said, I am already very fast on the court according to my coach, so is this a speed thing or what?

You should learn from Cheetah. When he posts advice, he doesnt make it about himself, he just drops great details that can help. With you, everything seems like you are out to prove yourself and one up everybody all the time.

LeeD
12-07-2012, 11:09 AM
Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose? I mean, if you really made a commitment purely for tennis, wouldn't you drop 12 lbs? Or somewhere close to that, either direction?
I'm not talking about looking good for the girls, or whatever reason.
There are NO tennis players in the top ranks that are built like you. Sure, Nadal has calf's that are big, as does DJ, but their upper bodies are smaller than yours, as is their off arms.
I see you as a strong guy playing tennis. Not as a tennis player getting strong for tennis. Would you agree there?
Now which of the above do you see in the top 500 men's players?

President
12-07-2012, 11:15 AM
Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose? I mean, if you really made a commitment purely for tennis, wouldn't you drop 12 lbs? Or somewhere close to that, either direction?
I'm not talking about looking good for the girls, or whatever reason.
There are NO tennis players in the top ranks that are built like you. Sure, Nadal has calf's that are big, as does DJ, but their upper bodies are smaller than yours, as is their off arms.
I see you as a strong guy playing tennis. Not as a tennis player getting strong for tennis. Would you agree there?
Now which of the above do you see in the top 500 men's players?

With regard to ATP pros, I think a lot of it has to do with the grind of the tour and not being injured. More weight (whether muscle or fat) will increase stress on the joints and for people playing and practicing VERY intensely and frequently through a whole year, they want to minimize the wear and tear. That doesn't apply to rec players. Maybe there are some flexibility issues too, but OP is obviously very explosive and quick judging by the video so the muscle isn't harming him in that regard. Remember he said he is only about 5'8 so to make up for the leverage disadvantage the muscle will definitely help. Look at pros the same height as OP like Ferrer, he is a pretty muscular guy.

http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/david-ferrer-daviscup08a.jpg

mikeler
12-07-2012, 11:16 AM
Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose? I mean, if you really made a commitment purely for tennis, wouldn't you drop 12 lbs? Or somewhere close to that, either direction?
I'm not talking about looking good for the girls, or whatever reason.
There are NO tennis players in the top ranks that are built like you. Sure, Nadal has calf's that are big, as does DJ, but their upper bodies are smaller than yours, as is their off arms.
I see you as a strong guy playing tennis. Not as a tennis player getting strong for tennis. Would you agree there?
Now which of the above do you see in the top 500 men's players?

Power Player and I are built very similar. It's genetic Lee. I've done serious dieting and exercise before but unless I get sick and don't eat, there is a weight ceiling I just can't get below. I'm sure he is the same way. Being close to middle age with work commitments, we can't play tennis 10 hours a day.

As for a hypothetical matchup, I've played once against Power Player and seen your videos. PP has a 4.5 ground game but needs to improve his serve to get to 4.5 overall. I doubt you would get more than 2 or 3 games against him.

Power Player
12-07-2012, 11:24 AM
Right now I am at 12% fat. It is tough to drop 12 pounds without losing muscle, but if it means protecting my knees from wear or helping prevent injury than I would do it.

You still never really answered my question. You just said that there are no strong guys like me playing top 500 tennis. Well, I am not sure how that is applicable to anyone here.

Good point by president. Pros play so much tennis, that they probably eat tons more than me and still drop weight.

Also Ferrer is basically built like Mikerler and I. The difference is that tennis is his life. He can devote his entire days to training. If I did that, I am sure I would be rather light as well. He is our height and weighs 160. I am 174. So I may be able to get to 164, as I was around there when I played college lacrosse.

r2473
12-07-2012, 11:24 AM
On a Cybex machine, there are TWO lat pull machines. I weigh right around 147 lbs. I lat pull on both usually 190 lbs. 50 reps. To tell you relative weight, I bicept curl 50 lbs., tricept curl 50, and shoulder press on both machines only 30 lbs., 30 reps each. My lats are waaay stronger than most people who weigh 190 lbs. But don't talk to me about lats, or fitness.

I have an amazing left pinky finger and a well above average 4th toe on my right foot.

r2473
12-07-2012, 11:27 AM
Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q


My body fat is around 12% right now.

You're 12%?

LeeD
12-07-2012, 11:31 AM
Did I ever say I was a model physical specimen. I'm 63, and you know my list of injuries.
PP, I'm just saying a pro can have you lower body build, but every single one has less muscle up top, because their goal is tennis, and tennis only.
I WISH I had your upper body, but I don't. Too bad.
You KNOW, if you lost muscle weight in the upper body, got in slightly better lower body shape, your tennis would improve another level...speed, quickness, endurance. That's all I"m saying.

Power Player
12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
r2, Yeah according the gym PT using his caliper. Whats your guess? I know it's not 100% accurate.

Lee, I am not disagreeing, just asking. Lighter is nice..easier on the body. I have to figure out the ideal tennis diet. It is hard to dial it up right and not get faint out on the courts, or eat too much before and not burn enough...

Magnetite
12-07-2012, 11:36 AM
I'm running around my backhand and hitting inside out forehands, to abuse people's backhands. It's working really well, especially since I hit with tons of junk on the ball.

My backhand is very solid, but I don't have the same kind of movement and pace on the ball as my forehand.

Couple that with pulling a forehand inside in every now an then, and my opponents have been stumped recently.

Power Player
12-07-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm running around my backhand and hitting inside out forehands, to abuse people's backhands. It's working really well, especially since I hit with tons of junk on the ball.

My backhand is very solid, but I don't have the same kind of movement and pace on the ball as my forehand.

Couple that with pulling a forehand inside in every now an then, and my opponents have been stumped recently.

I play the same if by junk you mean topspin. One thing I was taught by a really great coach and successful player (top 500) is that you dont need to worry about putting action on the backhand. You want to drive through it and it doesnt need much spin. He really helped shape my game off that wing, so if you are looking for more pace, try that.

LeeD
12-07-2012, 11:44 AM
Yes, even Nadal hits flatter on his backhand side, and often can hit a faster moving passing shot on his 2hbh. It's noticeable on most ATP pros as well.
That's one reason guys like Guga, Vilas, and Lendl were such abberations in tennis. They could hit their backhands almost as hard as their forehand, with just as much spin, and possibly more consistently.

r2473
12-07-2012, 12:02 PM
r2, Yeah according the gym PT using his caliper. Whats your guess? I know it's not 100% accurate.

It's really impossible to guess. 12% sounds OK to me.

lodeen
12-07-2012, 04:44 PM
Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose?

Are you kidding me??!! Power Player is already so darn sexy!! If he were to lose 12 lbs, he would be TOO SEXY!!!!! :)

Power Player
12-07-2012, 04:51 PM
Are you kidding me??!! Power Player is already so darn sexy!! If he were to lose 12 lbs, he would be TOO SEXY!!!!! :)

Imagine if I rollerbladed...lol.

lodeen
12-07-2012, 04:55 PM
Imagine if I rollerbladed...lol.

...then you'd have a firm butt and tight legs! :)

LeeD
12-07-2012, 04:55 PM
We should start a PP fan club right now! Good you posted this vid, pretty soon, you can charge us for watching your video.
Better to have than to have not.
Would be good to see you against Jamison, on the tourney thread. Two lightheavyweights duking it out.

Power Player
12-07-2012, 05:23 PM
I can get some vid of me and Lodeen sometime if he wants. Lodeen clocks in with a leaded up PS85 and full poly.

LeeD
12-07-2012, 05:28 PM
:(sorry, we were hoping he was a she...:oops::oops:

lodeen
12-07-2012, 07:47 PM
...I could wear a skirt...lol

LeeD
12-07-2012, 07:54 PM
Best if you're Irish or Scot.

TomT
12-07-2012, 10:23 PM
Lee, I'd love to play you for the sake of the forums' entertainment. I cant remember the last time I have lost to a 3.5 player in singles to be honest. There are a lot of great older players here who can hang, but they all have speed and footwork and play at a 4.5 level still.

I am not just a guy who hits for pace. I value placement over that and like to hit into either corner with my strokes. So you need to be able to run side to side, and from the sampling I saw of you walking, I dont think that is going to happen throughout a match.

Anyway, why you keep posting and telling me we would have a close match is beyond me because I never posted video to really have hypothetical matches with people on the web. Who knows, maybe you would smoke me and teach me something, but I play some amazing older guys who eat up pace, hit impeccable droppers and still retained good footspeed, so I wouldnt be taken by surprise.

Since we live on opposite coasts, this is probably never going to happen so it is a waste of time to think that much about.

With all that aside, I am interested in the 12 pounds. Where did this number come from and what do I gain from this? I'd love to drop 12 pounds if it will help my tennis, but it will cost me some muscle in the process. Like I said, I am already very fast on the court according to my coach, so is this a speed thing or what?

You should learn from Cheetah. When he posts advice, he doesnt make it about himself, he just drops great details that can help. With you, everything seems like you are out to prove yourself and one up everybody all the time.Nice post. Let me say that I really like LeeD's posts, but from what I've seen on video so far it wouldn't be a contest. Your game, PP, seems much stronger (LeeD, post some vids of match play ... I loved your form on the serving stuff you posted).

Now, about the 12 lbs. I recently went from 200 to 185 (I'm a little over 6 feet, and shrinking). Simply because I cut out lots of sources of sugar. No soft drinks. No sugar in the coffee. No candy (that I ate more or less obsessively). Less bread. Less carbs and more protein and veggies in general. Etc. I don't think I've lost any muscle or strength, and I do feel better. (Which might just be a function of playing more, I don't know). So, I would suggest just starting with cutting out any unnecessary sugar and carb ingestion. See where it takes you, then go from there.

LeeD
12-08-2012, 01:54 PM
Yes, it would be an interesting match.
PP right now can knock my socks off just hitting.
I've never been known as a good hitter. Always been known as a good player.
What bother's me now is high bouncers over and over again, deep and consistent, with tons of topspin. I just can't seem to beat those 5.0 players.
What killed me last year in a couple of sets was the redirector. That style of play, dinking short and low, angled and atop the sidelines, is a style most people don't want to play against, certainly not with an injured ankle and wanting to practice hitting out on groundies, against controlled redirection.
But most 4.0's, and most 4.5's, I can do OK against, or at least stay even.
Would be interesting, a lefty S/V player with an solid wide slice serve vs a strong backcourt pounder with great movement.

HunterST
12-08-2012, 06:31 PM
cool. the best thing about this is that you'll pick it up right away. the noticeable difference in feel is so strong and positive that you'll just start doing it. you won't have to 'practice' it.

PP, hope you don't mind me bringing up your stroke mechanics again.

I thought, just like Cheetah did, that the stroke looked awesome up until the very finish. I think maybe the arm is a bit too stiff at the end, like you're muscling it a bit. And you do seem to have plenty of muscle.

You think there's any truth to this?

Power Player
12-08-2012, 07:06 PM
I already fixed it. It was what cheetah said. Easy fix.

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-09-2012, 04:14 AM
I just take nearly every ball from on top or or inside the baseline, and be aggressive.

Sadly, it's heavily reliant on maintaining practice to be successful. But it's not as reliant on being confident in my game as it used to be. If I practice as regularly as I normally look to do, then the percentages will be there to back up the confidence.

Also, I find I do best when I have the general confidence in my forehand and overall play to come to the net often and really go down the line with my shots. The times I hit a forehand from inside the court and stay back near the baseline, going crosscourt is when I can tell I'm pushing and praying for errors. Oh, and I aim to hit a lot of forehands.

I would love to change up the pace of the rallies more often, but I'm too set naturally to want to be aggressive so that I can be at net, at least when I'm confident or level-headed.

Timbo's hopeless slice
12-09-2012, 01:38 PM
I try to play the last 'good' shot in every rally..

baba123
12-11-2012, 12:04 PM
I play with junk, to me it annoys the opponent more to change the spin or pace rather than constantly hit the same shot
Also I feel I'm more athletic than a lot of my opponents so probably defensive junk balling works best for me
Followed by serve and volleying

Hi I'm Ray
12-12-2012, 04:41 AM
@ PP,

Bit off topic, but didn't want to start a new thread: How would you describe the comfort, firmness, & power level of the BLX Blade compared to the KBlade 98 and PD2012? Have you tried the Dunlop F 3.0 Tour?

Power Player
12-12-2012, 06:42 AM
More comfort and controllable power than the PD. Plays great in stick form, and Pd needs lead.

Haven't tried the Dunlop.

5263
12-12-2012, 10:00 AM
Did I ever say I was a model physical specimen. I'm 63, and you know my list of injuries.
PP, I'm just saying a pro can have you lower body build, but every single one has less muscle up top, because their goal is tennis, and tennis only.
I WISH I had your upper body, but I don't. Too bad.
You KNOW, if you lost muscle weight in the upper body, got in slightly better lower body shape, your tennis would improve another level...speed, quickness, endurance. That's all I"m saying.

Lee is right on the money here. I wouldn't worry about it, because you are
playing excellent tennis and really looking sharp out there hitting!
But less bulk up top would surely to some extent.
Very nice bite to that TS.

bad_call
12-12-2012, 10:29 AM
Lee is right on the money here. I wouldn't worry about it, because you are
playing excellent tennis and really looking sharp out there hitting!
But less bulk up top would surely to some extent.
Very nice bite to that TS.

haha...and while you're at it, grow to at least Sharapova's height. LOL

Power Player
12-12-2012, 11:08 AM
LOL right?..I told the girl I am dating that I wanted to try and drop some weight and she laughed at me and said "why???".

So yeah, we shall see what happens there.

mikeler
12-12-2012, 11:27 AM
LOL right?..I told the girl I am dating that I wanted to try and drop some weight and she laughed at me and said "why???".

So yeah, we shall see what happens there.

Stop with the desserts Power, it is all going to your rear end. :)

LeeD
12-12-2012, 11:29 AM
Yes, a girl can certainly affect/effect our entire game..:)
I just got a crewcut in anticipation of 3 weeks in PuertoRico. She HATES it, really despises it. I've had long hair, down past my collar for 5 years. I love it, LOVE it.
Now realize, her Dad, her brother, her brother in law, all their boy cousins, ALL have short crewcuts.
I can't win for losing.:oops:

lodeen
12-12-2012, 06:27 PM
LOL right?..I told the girl I am dating that I wanted to try and drop some weight and she laughed at me and said "why???".

So yeah, we shall see what happens there.

Dude, try rollerblading! :)

Hi I'm Ray
12-13-2012, 06:30 AM
More comfort and controllable power than the PD. Plays great in stick form, and Pd needs lead.

Haven't tried the Dunlop.

Alright, thanks.

TomT
12-13-2012, 01:51 PM
LOL right?..I told the girl I am dating that I wanted to try and drop some weight and she laughed at me and said "why???".

So yeah, we shall see what happens there.From your vids it doesn't seem to me that you need to lose any weight. But I don't think that losing a few pounds would negatively affect your game, and might even help.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 06:31 PM
Interesting wording there, TomT.
Just WHAT are you really trying to say?
You did cover both camps in one post, so does it mean you're undecided or non commital?

TheCheese
12-13-2012, 06:33 PM
Interesting wording there, TomT.
Just WHAT are you really trying to say?
You did cover both camps in one post, so does it mean you're undecided or non commital?

I think he has a future in politics.

One thing about PP's video. What's the original aspect ratio on the clips? It looks like it might be a little stretched, possibly adding to the comments about him needing to drop excess muscle.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 06:46 PM
If he was fighting MMA, I think he has a chance of beating every single one of us....especially me.
But all this talk and TENNIS practice, he would cover another 18" in all directions AND recover quicker with a muscle mass drop in the upper body. Keep the legs strong.
And spring up another 2" on every serve, increasing the strike point height, to get more faster serves IN.

Greg G
12-13-2012, 09:45 PM
I think we're reading waaay too much about PP from just one video. Could you upload the rollerblading pics? :)

TomT
12-14-2012, 07:19 PM
From your vids it doesn't seem to me that you need to lose any weight. But I don't think that losing a few pounds would negatively affect your game, and might even help.

Interesting wording there, TomT.
Just WHAT are you really trying to say?See above.

You did cover both camps in one post, so does it mean you're undecided or non commital?I'm in the "I don't think PP needs to lose any weight, but that if he did I don't think it would hurt his game and might even help" ... camp. :)

Mick
12-14-2012, 07:56 PM
i know this one guy, a tennis coach. his strategy for wins in tennis is to only play against people he knows for sure he can beat :shock: :)

Power Player
12-15-2012, 01:45 AM
If he was fighting MMA, I think he has a chance of beating every single one of us....especially me.
But all this talk and TENNIS practice, he would cover another 18" in all directions AND recover quicker with a muscle mass drop in the upper body. Keep the legs strong.
And spring up another 2" on every serve, increasing the strike point height, to get more faster serves IN.

Cant really disagree that it would be cool to see what happens if i did that. The next question is -how? Just stop lifting? Im pretty much just doing pushups now.

TomT
12-15-2012, 05:43 AM
Cant really disagree that it would be cool to see what happens if i did that. The next question is -how? Just stop lifting? Im pretty much just doing pushups now.What LeeD suggests makes sense to me. You look much more muscular and husky than would seem to be optimal for tennis. How to eventually optimize your body for tennis? Basically, stop lifting weights and get most all your exercise from practicing and playing tennis would be my guess. Your (tennis-nonessential) bulk isn't going to go away overnight, but by focusing on tennis, and cutting out sugar and excess carbs it would seem that you would steadily evolve toward your best tennis body. The muscle mass you need for tennis will remain, while what you don't need for tennis will slowly but steadily decrease. Or maybe not. Who knows? Maybe this is your optimum tennis body. But, as Chuck Norris would say, there's only one way to find out. Either way, you will be on the path to becoming a true tennis monster. :)

That's my goal as well. No refined sugar. No Suzy Q's. No pancakes with syrup. Less fruit and fruit juices. Etc. Etc. Although, I have decided to keep beer in my daily regimen. (It seemed to work for the Aussies.) I'm fluctuating between 185 and 190 now. Down from 200-205. The goal is to fluctuate between 170 and 175.

TomT
12-15-2012, 05:49 AM
I think we're reading waaay too much about PP from just one video. Could you upload the rollerblading pics? :)Excellent point, imo. I love rollerblading vids. Plus, more tennis vids is always a good idea in a tennis tips and instruction forum. :)

Mick3391
12-15-2012, 06:10 AM
The more I have drilled my footwork, the more prep time I have and the better my strokes have gotten. I played a flatter hitting guy last night where I was able to hit deep shots CC and DTL safely. They were bouncing about a foot or so in the baseline on average and I was getting confident enough to place the ball closer to the lines. I have played and hit with this guy many times, and this was the most lopsided play in my favor to date.

It felt like I finally had evolved from the high trajectory- pin them back with topspin - force short balls style that I had played before. I find that better players see that style so much that it does not phase them. It is more like the Rafa defensive style that can wear you down, especially if your opponent knows how to take them early. I have gone more to the Djoker style of attacking with lower trajectory and more precise placement. Obviously none of us are on that level of play, but at least this provides a good visual.

This was one guy, but the more I have adapted this style, the better I have been playing. I play guys from 4.0 to 5.0 since my clubs set me up with different players.

What works for you?

Progressive serve and volley. When I say "Progressive", I don't mean serve then hit the net, but progressively work my way up with flat, top, and slice when needed.

Serve and Volley is making a comeback!!!!!!! You'll see! I was so thrilled with this Sampras interview I heard the other day, they asked "How would you play today in this era of hard hitting baseliners", he said "I only have one gear", they said "Yea, but they have bigger racquets and more powerful strings", Sampras said "So would I, when I see a guy stay back I lick my chops".

I'm probably wrong, but I prefer playing aggressive, ending points quick, shooting a guy where he's not. Man today I played after almost stopping from injuries and did great, played my 6.1 90 and it was like oh just wonderful! Love this sport.

bad_call
12-15-2012, 06:20 AM
Cant really disagree that it would be cool to see what happens if i did that. The next question is -how? Just stop lifting? Im pretty much just doing pushups now.

wow...next would be change your genetic makeup. lol

can imagine comments from those after posting a vid of myself would be "stop moving like an old man"...dude - i would if i could but guess what. lol

Mick3391
12-15-2012, 06:21 AM
Post some vids. I would love to see your game, and feel sure that I could learn something.

As for your question, well, check out my sig. :) I actually do play 4.0 and above players from time to time. The warmup usually goes quite well. After that it's pretty much downhill for me. :)

Recently played a solid 4.0 guy. Actually won a couple of games, and I think I made him work a bit in a few other games. How did I win the games I won? Hard first serves went in, was hitting some really hard, slightly undercut driving approach shots that were clearing the net by inches, landing deep and skidding real low, and didn't screw up the volleys. :) But of course I can't do that consistently on most points.

Should have made some vids of that match, but didn't anticipate playing as well as I did. As it turned out my level of play was elevated by my opponent's level of play. In the end we were both pleased with the result. Me, because I thought I played pretty well, and him because he won pretty decisively. The old stuff seems to be steadily, but slowly, coming back.

Hey TomT are you feeling better? You had some problems before.

I just want to share with you this last year was one injury after another for me, the last straw was, by the way you diagnosed it right, Golfers elbow for Tennis! It was so bad it hurt to lift the racquet, heh it hurt to dry my hair with a towel, ALL THE TIME. I couldn't hit well (I just played through the pain).

Listen, I conned my doc into giving me 500IU HCG shots. They are NOT DANGEROUS, they naturally increase Testosterone, I am PAIN FREE, my arm is a normal arm, I can play, today I played tops, could do anything I wanted without that fear of some weird pain shooting somewhere through my body. Try it, you need a prescription now because it works, not for the stupid diet, just for restoring your testosterone to how it was, and it's my understanding Testosterone heals these injuries, rebuilds it if you will. My elbow as you said was in a degenerative state, only gets worse, but it's built up, I can swing as hard as ever, no weakness, heh it's given me back my sport.

I swelled up to 236, which is not really fat for me, but heavy, I'm 6'1" and have alot of muscle, especially in my legs, so now I'm back to a normal 220 or so, mainly water and glycogin loss, but man I feel AWESOME, you GOT to try it.

TomT
12-15-2012, 06:38 AM
Progressive serve and volley. When I say "Progressive", I don't mean serve then hit the net, but progressively work my way up with flat, top, and slice when needed.

Serve and Volley is making a comeback!!!!!!! You'll see! I was so thrilled with this Sampras interview I heard the other day, they asked "How would you play today in this era of hard hitting baseliners", he said "I only have one gear", they said "Yea, but they have bigger racquets and more powerful strings", Sampras said "So would I, when I see a guy stay back I lick my chops".

I'm probably wrong, but I prefer playing aggressive, ending points quick, shooting a guy where he's not. Man today I played after almost stopping from injuries and did great, played my 6.1 90 and it was like oh just wonderful! Love this sport.Watched a vid last night of a match between Connors and McEnroe. 1995 Pebble Beach. Connors 43 yrs, Mac 36 yrs. The points were fantastic to watch. Definitely what you're talking about with progressive serve and volley.

Love that comment by Sampras. Have to believe his style, played by a top form Sampras, would kick butt in today's game.

TomT
12-15-2012, 06:46 AM
Hey TomT are you feeling better? You had some problems before.

I just want to share with you this last year was one injury after another for me, the last straw was, by the way you diagnosed it right, Golfers elbow for Tennis! It was so bad it hurt to lift the racquet, heh it hurt to dry my hair with a towel, ALL THE TIME. I couldn't hit well (I just played through the pain).

Listen, I conned my doc into giving me 500IU HCG shots. They are NOT DANGEROUS, they naturally increase Testosterone, I am PAIN FREE, my arm is a normal arm, I can play, today I played tops, could do anything I wanted without that fear of some weird pain shooting somewhere through my body. Try it, you need a prescription now because it works, not for the stupid diet, just for restoring your testosterone to how it was, and it's my understanding Testosterone heals these injuries, rebuilds it if you will. My elbow as you said was in a degenerative state, only gets worse, but it's built up, I can swing as hard as ever, no weakness, heh it's given me back my sport.

I swelled up to 236, which is not really fat for me, but heavy, I'm 6'1" and have alot of muscle, especially in my legs, so now I'm back to a normal 220 or so, mainly water and glycogin loss, but man I feel AWESOME, you GOT to try it.I'm glad to hear that you found a remedy and are feeling and playing great Mick. Yeah, I'm sure I could use a testosterone boost, but it's not likely to happen. I use the VA medical services and I'm pretty sure they're not going to give me a script so I can play tennis better. :) Just gonna have to do it the old fashioned way. My wrist is better but still sore. Legs slowly getting stronger. Glad for your recovery. Post some vids. :)