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bhallic24
12-13-2012, 01:17 PM
So I've been at the game for about 2.5 years now. Honestly can't say I've gotten any better in the last 6 months. My forehand especially.


Filmed a short segment of some rally pts and noticed that my forehand just doesn't look quite right. Can't put my finger on it but I want to improve and make it more efficient.

If you care to take a look at the video and comment/critique/berate whatever, it'd be much appreciated. BTW you can comment on anything, backhand, forehand, movement etc... I just want to get better.

Much thanks.


Short couple minute video before my camera ran out of battery:
http://youtu.be/QlkDFg6riO0

After reading the first 3 comments, the concensus seems to be that my wrist on takeback "breaks" or has a hitch.
And when I watched video of my serve, seems that that's the case there too. When I lift my hitting arm up, the wrist drops like it went limp as well. Dunno how to correct that, but heres the video.

http://youtu.be/Nur1whLjPpg

TheCheese
12-13-2012, 01:21 PM
The problem with your forehand is that it has a slight hitch. Once you finish your unit turn your preparation is great, but then you drop the racket, pause for a split second, and then swing.

If you could keep that motion continuous I think you could easily generate a lot more racket head speed because your swing is really nice and relaxed besides that.

Also, I realize this is casual hitting but your footwork could definitely improve.

Cheetah
12-13-2012, 02:02 PM
One good thing is you are loose. You're going to be able to crush the ball someday if you keep that looseness while you fix the 'issues'.

#1 problem is footwork. It's too lackadaisical. It appears you don't 'care' about your footwork and you just want to swing the racquet. This needs to be worked on if you want a consistent powerful stroke. You must move your body quickly and efficiently enough so that you have time to be in the correct position and setup to establish the same contact point every time. As it is now your contact point is all over the place.

As far as the swing goes your takeback after the unit turn has a problem. You are not setting the wrist correctly and the way you have it now will break down if you hit against a consistent heavy hitter or when you're under pressure. It's almost like an extreme version of Murray's takeback. I also think you are probably losing power w/ this as well as control.

The actual swing path itself looks reasonably pretty but you need more extension.

Fixing that takeback will take the most effort. I can tell it's pretty well set in your patterns.

aimr75
12-13-2012, 02:17 PM
As others have mentioned, looks like a lot of moving parts in your takeback.. try this.. raise your racquet in the initial prep phase so the racquet tip points to the sky, from there, just turn your shoulders during the unit turn without doing anything with your arms.. at the completion of the unit turn, your racquet drops into the slot before the forward swing..

thinking about turning with the shoulders and eliminating too much arm movement will simplify your stroke and will be alot smoother and more compact

bhallic24
12-13-2012, 02:30 PM
Yea I think you guys hit it right on the money. Can't believe I didn't see that hitch b/c its pretty evident after all ya'll point it out. Why does my wrist always "break" so to speak and drop right before the shot and how do i fix it? Am I not holding the racket firm enough? Am I preparing too early and then it I'm just adding extraneous movements with my arms and wrists?

I think I know where it comes from. You know when you first start playing and everyone says drop the racket below the ball to brush up? I think I made my own wrong way of achieving that by dropping the wrist and thus racket so that its another extra 2 inches below the ball to hit up. But now I need to delete that instinct!

Would bending my knees more get rid of it you guys think? But then again theres only so much you can bend your knees. And low slice balls that are 3 inches off the ground, theres no amount of knee bending that'll compensate for that.

Just saw your comment aimr75, I'll give your idea a try. So your saying drop the racket on takeback by dropping the shoulders instead of doing anything with my arms right?

TomT
12-13-2012, 02:33 PM
So I've been at the game for about 2.5 years now. Honestly can't say I've gotten any better in the last 6 months. My forehand especially.


Filmed a short segment of some rally pts and noticed that my forehand just doesn't look quite right. Can't put my finger on it but I want to improve and make it more efficient.

If you care to take a look at the video and comment/critique/berate whatever, it'd be much appreciated. BTW you can comment on anything, backhand, forehand, movement etc... I just want to get better.

Much thanks.


Short couple minute video before my camera ran out of battery:
http://youtu.be/QlkDFg6riO0Enjoyed the vid. Thanks for posting. I like your strokes. Much better than mine. You look relaxed and athletic. Maybe the experts, the better players, can give you advice. For me, I would like to hit like you do. It would definitely be an improvement in my game. :) Post more vids.

TheCheese
12-13-2012, 02:54 PM
Yea I think you guys hit it right on the money. Can't believe I didn't see that hitch b/c its pretty evident after all ya'll point it out. Why does my wrist always "break" so to speak and drop right before the shot and how do i fix it? Am I not holding the racket firm enough? Am I preparing too early and then it I'm just adding extraneous movements with my arms and wrists?

I think I know where it comes from. You know when you first start playing and everyone says drop the racket below the ball to brush up? I think I made my own wrong way of achieving that by dropping the wrist and thus racket so that its another extra 2 inches below the ball to hit up. But now I need to delete that instinct!

Would bending my knees more get rid of it you guys think? But then again theres only so much you can bend your knees. And low slice balls that are 3 inches off the ground, theres no amount of knee bending that'll compensate for that.

Just saw your comment aimr75, I'll give your idea a try. So your saying drop the racket on takeback by dropping the shoulders instead of doing anything with my arms right?
I don't think it's a matter of knee bend, but rather just habit.

Once you get to the end of your takeback, just let gravity take the racket down and use that momentum to go into your forward swing.

Here's a great reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

aimr75
12-13-2012, 03:06 PM
Just saw your comment aimr75, I'll give your idea a try. So your saying drop the racket on takeback by dropping the shoulders instead of doing anything with my arms right?

No, as TheCheese mentioned, just let gravity drop the racquet into the slot at the end of the takeback..

So, youve raised your arms to get the racquet tip pointing up at the start, your shoulders turn while your arms are set in this position and given your arms are raised, at the end of the takeback let them dop with gravity and then initiate the forward swing

bhallic24
12-13-2012, 03:44 PM
I don't think it's a matter of knee bend, but rather just habit.

Once you get to the end of your takeback, just let gravity take the racket down and use that momentum to go into your forward swing.

Here's a great reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg


great video to view to the forehand from the back perspective. I see how he's letting the racket fall naturally instead of add any arm or wrist to make it drop. Thanks mate.

TheCheese
12-13-2012, 03:48 PM
great video to view to the forehand from the back perspective. I see how he's letting the racket fall naturally instead of add any arm or wrist to make it drop. Thanks mate.

No problem! Good look working on it.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 04:11 PM
If I remember correctly, some pros, maybe DelPo, maybe Soderling, maybe Murray have that lag time rackethead drop at the beginning of the forward swing, end of the loop.
I don't see that is the main problem.
The main problem seems like you don't hit a solid ball with solid kinetics. Part's flailing in all directions.
I'd encourage you to drop feet a few balls, feet firmly planted, but hit them hard.

86golf
12-13-2012, 04:51 PM
The first thing you need to focus on is pulling the butt cap to the ball on your forehand. This will lay your wrist back in the proper position and keep you from slapping across it. This will also make you swing out to the ball more and hit through your shot instead of just wiping it. You need to stay on your loaded leg (right side) longer too.

Your racquet face is open too much on your backhand slice. As you swing to contact you need to suppinate your forearm slightly to close the face.

Good luck.

bhallic24
12-13-2012, 05:20 PM
The first thing you need to focus on is pulling the butt cap to the ball on your forehand. This will lay your wrist back in the proper position and keep you from slapping across it. This will also make you swing out to the ball more and hit through your shot instead of just wiping it. You need to stay on your loaded leg (right side) longer too.

Your racquet face is open too much on your backhand slice. As you swing to contact you need to suppinate your forearm slightly to close the face.

Good luck.


Yup definitely "floated" the two slice shots. Buttcap to the ball, got it, that's an easy thing to remember to tell myself next time I hit.

Also don't know if you hit with a 1hbh, but does anything look glaringly off/awkward with it? I know I ended up hitting mostly forehands.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 05:30 PM
Part of your flailing problem is that you hit the first feed ball like a slap, which migrates over to your forehand. Instead, try to feed that first ball like an efficient forehand, and you won't tend to slap at the ball so much. You tend to play like your practice.
That trophy pause is unusual, but doesn't affect power or spin. What is weird is your trophy position with the racket pointed out to the right. It should point straight up at the sky directly above you. Yours makes for too extended a loop, robbing you of possible power.
Also, you have a nice motion, but it looks like you're doing energy saving serves, the ONE shot in tennis that you should maximise.

bhallic24
12-13-2012, 05:35 PM
Enjoyed the vid. Thanks for posting. I like your strokes. Much better than mine. You look relaxed and athletic. Maybe the experts, the better players, can give you advice. For me, I would like to hit like you do. It would definitely be an improvement in my game. :) Post more vids.

Thanks Tom, kind words indeed. Ha, I still remember the first year when I could barely keep the ball in the court on the forehand side and I had absolutely ZERO idea how to hit a backhand. Turns out I realized I had the backhand grip all wrong. What a moment of epiphany! So I've gotten better, but there's always room for improvement for everyone.

Been really working on my serve lately over the last year and a half and honestly feel like that's the best part of my game now. It always seemed funny to me how you always see guys hit groundstrokes for countless hours no matter where you go but its so rare to see anyone work on their serve when that literally starts off every single point in a match. Anyway vid of my serve below:

http://youtu.be/Nur1whLjPpg



BTW, I saw your wall hitting video and you definitely look way better than a 2.5. Must be some competition where you live. Cheers on having a 1hbh as well, definitely my favorite stroke to hit. And you seem to be quite nimble and in great shape for 65 so keep up the good work.

bhallic24
12-13-2012, 05:40 PM
Part of your flailing problem is that you hit the first feed ball like a slap, which migrates over to your forehand. Instead, try to feed that first ball like an efficient forehand, and you won't tend to slap at the ball so much. You tend to play like your practice.
That trophy pause is unusual, but doesn't affect power or spin. What is weird is your trophy position with the racket pointed out to the right. It should point straight up at the sky directly above you. Yours makes for too extended a loop, robbing you of possible power.
Also, you have a nice motion, but it looks like you're doing energy saving serves, the ONE shot in tennis that you should maximise.

Oh yea, forgot to say that those serves where just during warmup. I think I was trying to work on placing the serves to a Righties backhand on both sides.

I try to pound the 1st serve during a match. But if you can see my point, I think the reason why my racket (during trophy pose) goes to the right instead of towards the sky has to do with my wrist.

Before filming myself I woulda never caught it and probably would have play years without making an effort to fix it. But yea that wrist is giving me both a wierd hitch in my serve and my forehand. I can honestly even feel a ... pause right before hitting sometimes. I think like you and some others have hinted towards, my strokes would be much more smooth and fluid if I didn't have that wrist hitch there. Otherwise I feel very relaxed during the swing to contact and the followthrough.

Thanks again LeeD.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 05:43 PM
OK, end of group hug right here....
You are young and obviously athletic.
You seem to be normal height, and strong.
Why are EVERY single one of your serves taking two bounces to reach the backboard? Somewhere around 1:50, you accidentally hit a flat serve, and it still took two bounces to reach the back board.
You're in a rut right now, right?
Maybe to get out of it, you need to unleash the animal within.
You're hitting in warm indoor courts, the bounce should be easily hip high on all first serves, spin or flat.
Hit all your strokes AS HARD AS YOU CAN! Like 7 of each.
Now back off some and get them IN 70 odd percent, then CONCENTRATE and get them in 95%.
You're stagnant because you are limiting your strokes.

bhallic24
12-13-2012, 06:01 PM
OK, end of group hug right here....
You are young and obviously athletic.
You seem to be normal height, and strong.
Why are EVERY single one of your serves taking two bounces to reach the backboard? Somewhere around 1:50, you accidentally hit a flat serve, and it still took two bounces to reach the back board.
You're in a rut right now, right?
Maybe to get out of it, you need to unleash the animal within.
You're hitting in warm indoor courts, the bounce should be easily hip high on all first serves, spin or flat.
Hit all your strokes AS HARD AS YOU CAN! Like 7 of each.
Now back off some and get them IN 70 odd percent, then CONCENTRATE and get them in 95%.
You're stagnant because you are limiting your strokes.

Yup, I'm 6 even and right around 180 lbs.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 06:23 PM
Good you came back.
You're on schedule to get out of 3-3.5 and move onto 3.5-4.0 if you hit harder, but still keep it in.
You have the basics on forehand and serve. Both, you can hit another 30% harder, and still keep everything IN.
Backhand might be another story, and volleys too.
You should watch youtube vids of the PRO MEN playing, and start to hit out like they do.
You're pro size. You're pro strength. You need to use your athleticism and HIT the ball, don't just guide it in.
Within ONE year, you should be hitting groundies as fast as the pros, with as much spin, but maybe not get it in every time. But the potential is there, and right now, it's not utilized.

TheCheese
12-13-2012, 06:24 PM
I'd just like to add that you shouldn't sacrifice placement too much while trying to generate faster ball speeds. After a certain threshold, placement is much more important than raw power.

Of course, you can develop more speed without losing control. Just make sure you don't forget about the placement.

LeeD
12-13-2012, 06:26 PM
Agree, but that threshold is reached at high 4.5 levels, and I think OP has a couple more years before peeking into that horizon.
I'd think, with his build, 3 years should land him solidly into competitive 3.5 level tennis, and maybe a little more. But he's lacking power first of all.

vil
12-13-2012, 06:31 PM
You look very athletic and natural. I like your looseness. I think you have a potential to jump to much higher level than you think. Some of those small glitches in your strokes may not be as important as fixing your footwork. If you can make conscience effort to move your feet to the proper position, rather than improvising at times, that will be the ticket for better consistency.

ohplease
12-13-2012, 06:50 PM
Others have touched on it, but your kinetic chain is kind of all over the place. There doesn't seem to be much of a relationship between what your shoulders and hips are doing vs. your arm.

Your hips/shoulders should be in charge, not your arm. If you simplify your forehand to just loading then unloading, coiling the uncoiling, bringing the arm along for the ride, you should find yourself stroking the ball both more consistently as well as more powerfully. Resist the urge to use your arm to add that last bit of pace - that will work every once in a while, but there's no way the stroke will hold up under pressure.

HEADfamilydynasty
12-13-2012, 06:51 PM
So I've been at the game for about 2.5 years now. Honestly can't say I've gotten any better in the last 6 months. My forehand especially.


Filmed a short segment of some rally pts and noticed that my forehand just doesn't look quite right. Can't put my finger on it but I want to improve and make it more efficient.

If you care to take a look at the video and comment/critique/berate whatever, it'd be much appreciated. BTW you can comment on anything, backhand, forehand, movement etc... I just want to get better.

Much thanks.


Short couple minute video before my camera ran out of battery:
http://youtu.be/QlkDFg6riO0

After reading the first 3 comments, the concensus seems to be that my wrist on takeback "breaks" or has a hitch.
And when I watched video of my serve, seems that that's the case there too. When I lift my hitting arm up, the wrist drops like it went limp as well. Dunno how to correct that, but heres the video.

http://youtu.be/Nur1whLjPpg

Your forehand looks like mine feels:lol:

LeeD
12-13-2012, 06:54 PM
I find that when hitting at that slow pace, footwork cannot be appreciated, so you don't and don't know why you need better footwork.
When you UP the ante, hit harder, you will see that more precise, quicker setup is very important to your strokes.
Kinda like the vids of Federer just warming up. He barely moves his feet, keeps them close together, and doesn't hit with any quads or lift. Now when he up the ante, playing a MATCH, he hits much harder, preps his feet, lifts with his quads, and uses the whole kinetic chain to hit the ball hard and IN.
But you won't move your feet because right now, there is no need, at the pace you're hitting.

Relinquis
12-13-2012, 07:38 PM
This is not advice, rather a question (to all): Is the wrist thing a matter of not having it cocked early enough, i.e. when letting the racquet drop below the height of the ball during backswing?

bhallic24,

Another observation, I think you might not have enough body and shoulder rotation during the swing when and after hitting the ball, except for the one or two shots where you hop. This might be partly responsible for the lack of power/depth on your forehand. You seem to be able to rotate on your backswing, but not during the follow-through.

Compare to the Federer practice clip TheCheese posted earlier and notice where his left shoulder ends after his forehand even when hitting in a relaxed manner. It is a subtle rotation, but might be a factor. Perhaps more knowledgeable posters can comment.

Disclaimer: I'm not a coach or sports professional.

rkelley
12-13-2012, 09:33 PM
One good thing is you are loose. You're going to be able to crush the ball someday if you keep that looseness while you fix the 'issues'.

#1 problem is footwork. It's too lackadaisical. It appears you don't 'care' about your footwork and you just want to swing the racquet. This needs to be worked on if you want a consistent powerful stroke. You must move your body quickly and efficiently enough so that you have time to be in the correct position and setup to establish the same contact point every time. As it is now your contact point is all over the place.

As far as the swing goes your takeback after the unit turn has a problem. You are not setting the wrist correctly and the way you have it now will break down if you hit against a consistent heavy hitter or when you're under pressure. It's almost like an extreme version of Murray's takeback. I also think you are probably losing power w/ this as well as control.

The actual swing path itself looks reasonably pretty but you need more extension.

Fixing that takeback will take the most effort. I can tell it's pretty well set in your patterns.

Totally agree on the footwork.

On the takeback the specific thing I noticed is that you're letting the racquet go too far back. Set-up with the racquet not so far back. With the proper kinetic chain you should be able to generate tons of rhs with control.

Bh has issues too i think, but it's a 1hbh so I'll let others comment.

Cheetah
12-13-2012, 09:44 PM
Totally agree on the footwork.

On the takeback the specific thing I noticed is that you're letting the racquet go too far back. Set-up with the racquet not so far back. With the proper kinetic chain you should be able to generate tons of rhs with control.

Bh has issues too i think, but it's a 1hbh so I'll let others comment.

His footwork for the 1hbh is a little river-dancey

Avles
12-14-2012, 05:52 AM
His footwork for the 1hbh is a little river-dancey

heheh is that a technical term?

OP, I think Cheetah may be partly referring to the way you kick your left leg back on the BH-- it seems a bit extreme and unusual. You may want to try being a little more grounded and balanced on that shot.

I think these videos are pretty helpful for the 1hbh:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU

bhallic24
12-14-2012, 06:01 AM
heheh is that a technical term?

OP, I think Cheetah may be partly referring to the way you kick your left leg back on the BH-- it seems a bit extreme and unusual. You may want to try being a little more grounded and balanced on that shot.

I think these videos are pretty helpful for the 1hbh:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU

Haha, oh I see. I'm not familiar with riverdance, was gonna go google it.

Wow lots of comments already, definitely appreciate all the feedback. Love how some of you also include video to correct whatever flaws you see.

LeeD
12-14-2012, 10:37 AM
Your flaws are not really apparent because you are hitting to slow. Hit faster, normal speed, and they start to show, and you will need to figure out the cure.
If you perfect your footwork and timing NOW, at 3.5 level ball speeds, your footwork DOES NOT translate to a higher level.
Right now, at your hitting speeds, you should not need any footwork whatsoever. Like Fed just warming up, you skill set is well above your hitting speed.

5263
12-14-2012, 12:54 PM
One good thing is you are loose. You're going to be able to crush the ball someday if you keep that looseness while you fix the 'issues'.

#1 problem is footwork. It's too lackadaisical. It appears you don't 'care' about your footwork and you just want to swing the racquet. This needs to be worked on if you want a consistent powerful stroke. You must move your body quickly and efficiently enough so that you have time to be in the correct position and setup to establish the same contact point every time. As it is now your contact point is all over the place.


I agree with the above and put it another way. Imo you need to focus on a
better position to receive the ball while setting up to be more stable. You
just sort of get near the ball enough to take a whack at it currently.


The first thing you need to focus on is pulling the butt cap to the ball on your forehand. This will lay your wrist back in the proper position

Like this part above of this one too and it should help you start in the right direction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLFD51772AA2F7D5F3&feature=player_detailpage&v=dW7SVLDZeX8#t=4s

TomT
12-14-2012, 06:08 PM
Thanks Tom, kind words indeed. Ha, I still remember the first year when I could barely keep the ball in the court on the forehand side and I had absolutely ZERO idea how to hit a backhand. Turns out I realized I had the backhand grip all wrong. What a moment of epiphany! So I've gotten better, but there's always room for improvement for everyone.

Been really working on my serve lately over the last year and a half and honestly feel like that's the best part of my game now. It always seemed funny to me how you always see guys hit groundstrokes for countless hours no matter where you go but its so rare to see anyone work on their serve when that literally starts off every single point in a match. Anyway vid of my serve below:

http://youtu.be/Nur1whLjPpg



BTW, I saw your wall hitting video and you definitely look way better than a 2.5. Must be some competition where you live. Cheers on having a 1hbh as well, definitely my favorite stroke to hit. And you seem to be quite nimble and in great shape for 65 so keep up the good work.bhallic24, it looks to me like you have good power (and much potential for more), and can get some good spin on your serves as well.

Thanks for the encouraging comment. I don't think the competition here is all that great. Maybe a bit deeper re some NTRP levels. Don't really know as I don't have anything else to compare it to. The thing is, I just suck. But at least I don't seem to be getting any worse. :)

Best of luck on improving. Post more vids, including ones of match play.