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tlm
12-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Here are a few forehands from practice today, my hitting partner is my wife.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IyFyvHuR74

TomT
12-29-2012, 08:02 PM
Here are a few forehands from practice today, my hitting partner is my wife.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzsThanks for posting. Looks to me like you have a very effective, if maybe somewhat unconventional, forehand. I see lots of potential in your hitting. Post more vids, preferably with the camera positioned behind you.

tlm
12-29-2012, 08:13 PM
Thanks for posting. Looks to me like you have a very effective, if maybe somewhat unconventional, forehand. I see lots of potential in your hitting. Post more vids, preferably with the camera positioned behind you.

I definitely have a unconventional forehand, it is pretty consistent though. But working on making improvements.

I will have to take some with another partner, my wife told my son the camera man that she does not want to be on the video.

10isfreak
12-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Its a great basis to work with and a nice forehand.

Two issues... first off, you do not need to reverse every forehand finish. When the ball is low or that you arent forced to move too much.

Secondly, your preparation. You can do two things early: turn your shoulders and change your grip... you can also move toward the ball obviously. One thing that you cannot do is bring the racket back, split both hands and wait. Pros always keep both hands on the racket until they are ready to commit to swinging... once they split hands, its all the way to the ball.

Obviously, you seem to have a nice overall swing. Fixing these small details could be quick and it would bring your game up a notch. Changing the preparation would improve your consistency and power, while using different finishes would grant you with more options.

tlm
12-29-2012, 08:22 PM
Its a great basis to work with and a nice forehand.

Two issues... first off, you do not need to reverse every forehand finish. When the ball is low or that you arent forced to move too much.

Secondly, your preparation. You can do two things early: turn your shoulders and change your grip... you can also move toward the ball obviously. One thing that you cannot do is bring the racket back, split both hands and wait. Pros always keep both hands on the racket until they are ready to commit to swinging... once they split hands, its all the way to the ball.

Obviously, you seem to have a nice overall swing. Fixing these small details could be quick and it would bring your game up a notch. Changing the preparation would improve your consistency and power, while using different finishes would grant you with more options.

Thanks for the tips, I used to use more of a WW finish most of the time but now I have been using a lot more reverse forehand finishes for some reason, it is not intentional. If you notice on a few of them that I attack some they have more of a WW finish, but for some reason on most shots I use a reverse.

Cheetah
12-29-2012, 08:25 PM
Here are a few forehands from practice today, my hitting partner is my wife.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzs

well that was weird. haha. no, not your strokes. i mean ....
is that you?? you look 20 years younger or something.
and your footwork is better than i remember. wth? i thought i remember
you as being not so mobile and absolutely no split steps at all. also you used to look more top heavy. no? now you look more balanced.
also your strokes look more solid than before. solid as in consistent w/ better control. your strokes are still... unique... but looks better than before. you're moving quite well there. were you injured before or something? looks totally different.

gotta learn to change your grip quickly for that fh slice.
i'd hold the racquet w/ 2 hands longer if i were you for better control, balance and shoulder turn.
left arm is still out of the picture but i ges it works for you w/ the way you swing.

tlm
12-29-2012, 09:12 PM
well that was weird. haha. no, not your strokes. i mean ....
is that you?? you look 20 years younger or something.
and your footwork is better than i remember. wth? i thought i remember
you as being not so mobile and absolutely no split steps at all. also you used to look more top heavy. no? now you look more balanced.
also your strokes look more solid than before. solid as in consistent w/ better control. your strokes are still... unique... but looks better than before. you're moving quite well there. were you injured before or something? looks totally different.

gotta learn to change your grip quickly for that fh slice.
i'd hold the racquet w/ 2 hands longer if i were you for better control, balance and shoulder turn.
left arm is still out of the picture but i ges it works for you w/ the way you swing.


Thanks Cheetah, ya that is me took that vid today. The last vid I posted was in the summer and I was actually a few pounds lighter then. Also the last vids I posted was hitting with the ball machine, and as weird as it sounds I don't hit or move as good with the ball machine.

I play and move better in a rally. Plus my movement has always been pretty good but not with the machine. Although I know I am not very good I thought I was a little better than you gave me credit for in the last video I posted.

I do like your tips, you are right have to change the grip quicker and hold the racket with 2 hands longer.

Cheetah
12-29-2012, 09:32 PM
Thanks Cheetah, ya that is me took that vid today. The last vid I posted was in the summer and I was actually a few pounds lighter then. Also the last vids I posted was hitting with the ball machine, and as weird as it sounds I don't hit or move as good with the ball machine.

I play and move better in a rally. Plus my movement has always been pretty good but not with the machine. Although I know I am not very good I thought I was a little better than you gave me credit for in the last video I posted.

I do like your tips, you are right have to change the grip quicker and hold the racket with 2 hands longer.

rock on.

What do you do for high fh's?

tlm
12-29-2012, 09:35 PM
rock on.

What do you do for high fh's?

Actually I like the ball up high, my wife hits a low ball which is not high enough for what I prefer. On high forehands I WW across them which seems to work pretty well.

tlm
12-30-2012, 10:05 AM
Here are a few forehands from practice today, my hitting partner is my wife.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzs

I will have to get some video of playing some points instead of just rallying like the above to see how much difference there is.

Power Player
12-30-2012, 10:16 AM
You are falling backwards. I think that is a footwork thing and your left hand is not involved at all in the shot. Real interesting forehand. It looks like you are working too hard or maybe your wife is just awesome at tennis. Not sure since I can't see that angle. If you do take lessons make the pro teach you footwork drills. It should save you some energy out there.

tlm
12-30-2012, 10:27 AM
You are falling backwards. I think that is a footwork thing and your left hand is not involved at all in the shot. Real interesting forehand. It looks like you are working too hard or maybe your wife is just awesome at tennis. Not sure since I can't see that angle. If you do take lessons make the pro teach you footwork drills. It should save you some energy out there.

You make some good points PP, I think I pull back to much and I definitely need some footwork drills. I do use to much energy and my wife is pretty good but I think it is more of my bad footwork that in turn makes me work harder than I should.

slowfox
12-30-2012, 12:21 PM
I would tell you what I often have to remind myself - relax more. And interesting buggy whip forehand finish, I'm curious what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that. Do your opponents find it creates a heavier ball that way?

Power Player
12-30-2012, 02:10 PM
I would tell you what I often have to remind myself - relax more. And interesting buggy whip forehand finish, I'm curious what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that. Do your opponents find it creates a heavier ball that way?

I am willing to bet its a spinnier ball, but he is not hitting through the ball so there will be more kick than heaviness.

Just fixing the footwork and balance will change a lot. The balance is way off and if he can fix that I think there will be less UEs, less effort, and a lot of things may sort themselves out.

tlm
12-30-2012, 03:05 PM
I would tell you what I often have to remind myself - relax more. And interesting buggy whip forehand finish, I'm curious what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that. Do your opponents find it creates a heavier ball that way?

As PP pointed out it is more spinny than heavy but it does kick up pretty high and fast. Your suggestion of trying to relax more is very true, I try to muscle the ball to much.

dominikk1985
12-30-2012, 03:24 PM
whether you use WW or reverse is not a big difference. kvitova also used the reverse all the time and of course nadal does.

but even with the reverse you need to use the body more. you are arming the ball.

just watch nadal, he uses his body like a whip. his body rotates hard and then like the handle of a whip stops and he finishes just with the arm whipping through. this is why he generates so much RHS. he doesn't pull the racket through by using body rotation (which is better than arming but still not high level) but uses the rotation to create stretch and then release it by stopping the rotation and using the whip effect.

you arm the ball more. the striking is good and you produce some nice spin. your footwork needs to improve though, you are not getting really into the corners. you not only lack the footwork but also actual speed as you are often very late. so do some short lateral sprints too as well as footwork drills.

TheCheese
12-30-2012, 03:25 PM
All you've gotta add is a huge grunt and we've got a rec level Nadal in the making!

Looks pretty effective, I'm sure you get good spin.

Graphiteking
12-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Here are a few forehands from practice today, my hitting partner is my wife.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzs

Look at your follow through at 31 sec in the vid. That is the correct way to hit the ball. Across the body.

tlm
12-30-2012, 03:40 PM
whether you use WW or reverse is not a big difference. kvitova also used the reverse all the time and of course nadal does.

but even with the reverse you need to use the body more. you are arming the ball.

just watch nadal, he uses his body like a whip. his body rotates hard and then like the handle of a whip stops and he finishes just with the arm whipping through. this is why he generates so much RHS. he doesn't pull the racket through by using body rotation (which is better than arming but still not high level) but uses the rotation to create stretch and then release it by stopping the rotation and using the whip effect.

you arm the ball more. the striking is good and you produce some nice spin. your footwork needs to improve though, you are not getting really into the corners. you not only lack the footwork but also actual speed as you are often very late. so do some short lateral sprints too as well as footwork drills.

Good points definitely using to much arm not enough body rotation. I do need to improve the footwork also. What do you mean by I am not really getting into the corners?

gunnd5000
12-30-2012, 03:46 PM
There is quite a few things to work on, and will probably take a long time to fix much of what you do wrong. The shot is all arm, and even at the the arm doesnt bring the racekt through the ball just up the back of it. Ideally the racket should finish on the oposite side of the body on every shot.

You should probably try to look at exagerating the shoulder turn or unit turn as in your previous video it is usually when you are square to the court the racket goes straight back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el9IyqMZ5yQ look at the FHs at 0:16 and 0:57, thats what you should be aiming to do on every ball. You'll probably notice that even when you get the unit turn on some of the shots in your video that the racket finishes pretty much above your head, (0:44) however it is far better than the shots where the shoulder turn really lacks (1:00 and 1:03)


When the top players reverse the forehand the racket actually comes across the body first and it is the racket head speed which brings it back to the dominant shoulder. They do not force it over and it is mearly a side affect ofhow fast they are swinging through (crucially not up, like yourself) the ball.

Have fun

tlm
12-30-2012, 03:50 PM
Look at your follow through at 31 sec in the vid. That is the correct way to hit the ball. Across the body.

For some reason I am using a reverse finish more now than what I was in the past. On the shot you are referring to that is what I use more when I have time to step into the court, I use that most of the time when I get into the court on a short ball and when attacking.

But on neutral rally balls I am using the reverse a lot more, it ends up being very consistent but not as much of a forcing shot as the across the body follow through.

tlm
12-30-2012, 03:53 PM
There is quite a few things to work on, and will probably take a long time to fix much of what you do wrong. The shot is all arm, and even at the the arm doesnt bring the racekt through the ball just up the back of it. Ideally the racket should finish on the oposite side of the body on every shot.

You should probably try to look at exagerating the shoulder turn or unit turn as in your previous video it is usually when you are square to the court the racket goes straight back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el9IyqMZ5yQ look at the FHs at 0:16 and 0:57, thats what you should be aiming to do on every ball. You'll probably notice that even when you get the unit turn on some of the shots in your video that the racket finishes pretty much above your head, (0:44) however it is far better than the shots where the shoulder turn really lacks (1:00 and 1:03)


When the top players reverse the forehand the racket actually comes across the body first and it is the racket head speed which brings it back to the dominant shoulder. They do not force it over and it is mearly a side affect ofhow fast they are swinging through (crucially not up, like yourself) the ball.

Have fun

Thanks for the good advise.

tlm
12-30-2012, 03:57 PM
All you've gotta add is a huge grunt and we've got a rec level Nadal in the making!

Looks pretty effective, I'm sure you get good spin.

I do get pretty good spin and the ball kicks up pretty high which a lot of players don't like. I play a grinder style and keep hitting that looping top spin side to side until I get the short ball or error.

chico9166
12-31-2012, 12:15 AM
Looks like a forehand influenced by Oscar Wegner.

tlm
12-31-2012, 03:16 AM
Looks like a forehand influenced by Oscar Wegner.

I did use his videos to learn how to hit top spin.

NLBwell
12-31-2012, 08:47 AM
It's a pretty sweet looking shot when you drive through it and finish over your left shoulder. Actually, I think your footwork, preparation, and start of the stroke look better than before. Maybe it's just the video angle or because of the ball machine, but much less like throwing buckets of mud.
You put so much effort into lifting your body away from the ball and pulling your arm upwards just before impact - and are getting negative usefulness from it.
Try getting a kids baseball (T-ball) bat or taping something heavy to your racket and shadow swinging relaxed forehand strokes. The heavy weight should remind you not to pull upwards. Just let the racket flow through the follow-through. It may not take long for improvement.

tlm
12-31-2012, 12:56 PM
It's a pretty sweet looking shot when you drive through it and finish over your left shoulder. Actually, I think your footwork, preparation, and start of the stroke look better than before. Maybe it's just the video angle or because of the ball machine, but much less like throwing buckets of mud.
You put so much effort into lifting your body away from the ball and pulling your arm upwards just before impact - and are getting negative usefulness from it.
Try getting a kids baseball (T-ball) bat or taping something heavy to your racket and shadow swinging relaxed forehand strokes. The heavy weight should remind you not to pull upwards. Just let the racket flow through the follow-through. It may not take long for improvement.


Well thats good that I am not throwing buckets of mud as much as before. You are correct I do use a lot of effort into pulling upwards right before contact. But I am not sure that it is not useful, I hit a lot of top spin and most opponents do not like the way my shots kick up high on them making them hit in a uncomfortable position quite often.


As I mentioned earlier I use a reverse finish a lot on rally balls, which I have found that it gives me a lot of consistency, but when I get time and am able to step into the court that is when I use more WW finish. Or like the one that you mentioned over my left shoulder.

Maybe I should use that more force full type swing most of the time. But I have found success in grinding looping top spin on a high % of my shots and then when the time is right step in and go for the aggressive shot.

monomer
12-31-2012, 03:28 PM
As I mentioned earlier I use a reverse finish a lot on rally balls, which I have found that it gives me a lot of consistency, but when I get time and am able to step into the court that is when I use more WW finish. Or like the one that you mentioned over my left shoulder.

Maybe I should use that more force full type swing most of the time. But I have found success in grinding looping top spin on a high % of my shots and then when the time is right step in and go for the aggressive shot.

It is nice to see an old guy (like me) working on an open stance, modern forehand. When you move to this approach from a linear, step into the shot FH, it always takes some time to hit thru the ball effectively.

While I don't think it's perfect, this video was helpful to me-

Dan Brown Modern Forehand Lesson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyoprgixTs)

You are falling backward as you swing. In this video you can really see that the guy loads the right foot on the unit turn, and then pushes forward as he rotates and whips the racquet around.

This would be an easy fix that would have you hitting a heavier ball almost immediately.

isilra
12-31-2012, 03:48 PM
whether you use WW or reverse is not a big difference. kvitova also used the reverse all the time and of course nadal does.

but even with the reverse you need to use the body more. you are arming the ball.

just watch nadal, he uses his body like a whip. his body rotates hard and then like the handle of a whip stops and he finishes just with the arm whipping through. this is why he generates so much RHS. he doesn't pull the racket through by using body rotation (which is better than arming but still not high level) but uses the rotation to create stretch and then release it by stopping the rotation and using the whip effect.

you arm the ball more. the striking is good and you produce some nice spin. your footwork needs to improve though, you are not getting really into the corners. you not only lack the footwork but also actual speed as you are often very late. so do some short lateral sprints too as well as footwork drills.

OP, you really should listen to this guy. When i have seen your video, the arming was the first thing i have thought about. You have good strokes but it is like serving with eastern grip, you just can't make it to uber levels because you will always lack the necessary head speed and waste your energy. I think you like to improve, otherwise you wouldn't want for advises.

Most of the forum members don't like it but i think you should really really check pull/push strokes theory and try to change to a pull forehand. You don't have a big, continuous loop, you drop the racquet to the slot, so it will be very easy for you to convert to it. You will just learn to use the hip/torso rotation to push your racquet, not your arm. Also Nadal would not be a perfect idol for everyone but he has a very similar forehand to yours, just the pull version of it, so with just a little practice, you have the opportunity to have a Nadal forehand as dominikk1985 said.

Just shows the basic mentality but i think this will help you to correctly understand the difference. Look how effortlessly he hits the ball with that technique;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo

tlm
12-31-2012, 04:04 PM
It is nice to see an old guy (like me) working on an open stance, modern forehand. When you move to this approach from a linear, step into the shot FH, it always takes some time to hit thru the ball effectively.

While I don't think it's perfect, this video was helpful to me-

Dan Brown Modern Forehand Lesson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyoprgixTs)

You are falling backward as you swing. In this video you can really see that the guy loads the right foot on the unit turn, and then pushes forward as he rotates and whips the racquet around.

This would be an easy fix that would have you hitting a heavier ball almost immediately.

Thanks for the advise and video clip.

tlm
12-31-2012, 04:19 PM
OP, you really should listen to this guy. When i have seen your video, the arming was the first thing i have thought about. You have good strokes but it is like serving with eastern grip, you just can't make it to uber levels because you will always lack the necessary head speed and waste your energy. I think you like to improve, otherwise you wouldn't want for advises.

Most of the forum members don't like it but i think you should really really check pull/push strokes theory and try to change to a pull forehand. You don't have a big, continuous loop, you drop the racquet to the slot, so it will be very easy for you to convert to it. You will just learn to use the hip/torso rotation to push your racquet, not your arm. Also Nadal would not be a perfect idol for everyone but he has a very similar forehand to yours, just the pull version of it, so with just a little practice, you have the opportunity to have a Nadal forehand as dominikk1985 said.

Just shows the basic mentality but i think this will help you to correctly understand the difference. Look how effortlessly he hits the ball with that technique;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo


You make good points, I knew that I armed the ball but I did not realize how much until I see it on video. Nice video clip I have seen some of his tips before and I liked them.

Thanks for the advise and now I will try to make some changes like you and dominikk suggested. I am sure you guys are right and your suggestions will help, but it will take some time and effort.

I hit at least 5 days a week on average and I am lucky to have a wife that can rally with me so I can go out and work on improvements like you suggested.

I just wish it was as easy as it looks, watching your locknroll video makes it look like I should be able to go right out and copy the way he shows. But it is not that easy, but I am determined to make the change.

NLBwell
12-31-2012, 05:58 PM
Well thats good that I am not throwing buckets of mud as much as before. You are correct I do use a lot of effort into pulling upwards right before contact. But I am not sure that it is not useful, I hit a lot of top spin and most opponents do not like the way my shots kick up high on them making them hit in a uncomfortable position quite often.


As I mentioned earlier I use a reverse finish a lot on rally balls, which I have found that it gives me a lot of consistency, but when I get time and am able to step into the court that is when I use more WW finish. Or like the one that you mentioned over my left shoulder.

Maybe I should use that more force full type swing most of the time. But I have found success in grinding looping top spin on a high % of my shots and then when the time is right step in and go for the aggressive shot.

You aren't pulling up until right at contact. By that time, the contact point and the velocities of the racket and ball are pretty much determined. You are putting effort into your follow-through, not the contact with the ball. For your looping topspin, just follow the same swingpath without pulling up during the follow-through

NLBwell
12-31-2012, 05:59 PM
I just wish it was as easy as it looks, watching your locknroll video makes it look like I should be able to go right out and copy the way he shows. But it is not that easy, but I am determined to make the change.

Doing it is easy. Changing habits is hard.

tlm
12-31-2012, 06:04 PM
Doing it is easy. Changing habits is hard.

Well you may be right about that because it looks like it should be easy.

thejackal
12-31-2012, 06:47 PM
rock on.

What do you do for high fh's?

yo cheetah, want to play a match next week?

sry for the thread jack btw

fruitytennis1
12-31-2012, 07:43 PM
Shore up the footwork a bit
Bend zee knees
Hit that fh at 31 secs over and over again
In fact, just ball machine hitting that fh.
Quit the reverse fh-its holding you back and i think you'll injure yourself eventually

tlm
12-31-2012, 07:46 PM
Shore up the footwork a bit
Bend zee knees
Hit that fh at 31 secs over and over again
In fact, just ball machine hitting that fh.
Quit the reverse fh-its holding you back and i think you'll injure yourself eventually


You may be right, I will have to work on going more across with the follow through.

Cheetah
12-31-2012, 07:55 PM
yo cheetah, want to play a match next week?

sry for the thread jack btw

Yes. any day is fine. you have my email. lemme know.

tlm
01-02-2013, 02:09 PM
Shore up the footwork a bit
Bend zee knees
Hit that fh at 31 secs over and over again
In fact, just ball machine hitting that fh.
Quit the reverse fh-its holding you back and i think you'll injure yourself eventually

Well I took your advise yesterday while practicing and tried to keep hitting that same forehand with the going across follow through. It seemed to work pretty well so I will continue tonight and try and get it ingrained.

5263
01-02-2013, 03:44 PM
Well I took your advise yesterday while practicing and tried to keep hitting that same forehand with the going across follow through. It seemed to work pretty well so I will continue tonight and try and get it ingrained.
tlm,
It really just depends on how you want to shape the shot. I was very impressed
with many of the comments on the 1st page, but think many of the more
critical ones on the 2ond have a different shot shape in mind. I don't expect
most of them want to be on the receiving end of most of those high kicking
shots. You probably draw short balls by the bucket loads when playing points.

Am I right that you are looking for very good net clearance, with heavy spin to
bring the ball back down aggressively. I think you are doing a bunch of stuff
right to that end. I'm not a big fan of hitting so many bolo Fhs, but sometimes
that is what it takes to shape the shot. Sometimes it comes from being a bit
late too though. The more you move the contact forward, the lower you will
tend to be on your finish to a point.

Imo you should focus mainly on 2 items to smooth out the shot a bit.
I'd like to see you use that off hand better on the take back, with stretching it
across to the side fence on separation, and
I'd suggest to focus on getting a more stable balance for the stroke.
From there, you can see how things are and adjust as required, but these
2 things will smooth things out a bit and enhance your control on the shot.
I think the stretch across will help with balance as well.

I agree with cheetah on how you look more mobile and less stiff, so
your work is really paying off!

xAceofSpadesx
01-02-2013, 04:17 PM
I guess if you want to go all reverse that's okay...but it looks to be a more defensive reverse (like what you would do on a low ball). I'm not seeing (like Dominik pointed out) enough rotation.

If you watch Nadal, he actually follows through above his right shoulder and then whips it around his head for the reverse finish. This lets him hit somewhat hard while keeping that ridiculous spin. I would advise studying videos of his form and then simply copying his motion if you can.

tlm
01-02-2013, 06:22 PM
tlm,
It really just depends on how you want to shape the shot. I was very impressed
with many of the comments on the 1st page, but think many of the more
critical ones on the 2ond have a different shot shape in mind. I don't expect
most of them want to be on the receiving end of most of those high kicking
shots. You probably draw short balls by the bucket loads when playing points.

Am I right that you are looking for very good net clearance, with heavy spin to
bring the ball back down aggressively. I think you are doing a bunch of stuff
right to that end. I'm not a big fan of hitting so many bolo Fhs, but sometimes
that is what it takes to shape the shot. Sometimes it comes from being a bit
late too though. The more you move the contact forward, the lower you will
tend to be on your finish to a point.

Imo you should focus mainly on 2 items to smooth out the shot a bit.
I'd like to see you use that off hand better on the take back, with stretching it
across to the side fence on separation, and
I'd suggest to focus on getting a more stable balance for the stroke.
From there, you can see how things are and adjust as required, but these
2 things will smooth things out a bit and enhance your control on the shot.
I think the stretch across will help with balance as well.

I agree with cheetah on how you look more mobile and less stiff, so
your work is really paying off!



Ya you are right I use high net clearance with a lot of spin and play a consistent looping grinding style. I just loop heavy top spin back and forth and either draw the error or get the short ball that I can attack. When I step into the court I do flatten my shots out quite a bit, and as some mentioned on a few of my shots in the clip I came across the ball with more of a WW finish.

I really want to get back to using more of those type forehands, for some reason I use the bolo type follow through now more than I ever did in the past. I did not try to develop this technique, in the past my follow through would be more WW style. But all of a sudden this past year after filming myself I notice I use the reverse a lot.

I think your suggestions are good and I will give them a try and see if they help. Thanks for your comments you always seem to point out some flaws and have fairly simple changes that can really help without making me do to much to were it gets confusing.

After I posted my earlier video from the summer you pointed out that my take back had no loop which you said was okay but sometimes I was reaching back to far. I have found that I hit more consistent by using your advise and not letting the racket head get to far behind me.

Power Player
01-02-2013, 07:44 PM
tlm,
It really just depends on how you want to shape the shot. I was very impressed
with many of the comments on the 1st page, but think many of the more
critical ones on the 2ond have a different shot shape in mind. I don't expect
most of them want to be on the receiving end of most of those high kicking
shots.

I agree and then I disagree. I would love to get balls like that because I know how to attack them. I think at a lower level of tennis, high kick is a very nice weapon, but it's not uncommon to see them. I have been practicing taking high bouncers out of the air, and it is eye opening how much time can be taken away from the opponent when you take them high.

It's a lot of energy with little reward to hit like that IMO. There is nothing wrong with TLM learning to hit through and drive the ball more.

5263
01-02-2013, 07:58 PM
I agree and then I disagree. I would love to get balls like that because I know how to attack them. I think at a lower level of tennis, high kick is a very nice weapon, but it's not uncommon to see them. I have been practicing taking high bouncers out of the air, and it is eye opening how much time can be taken away from the opponent when you take them high.

It's a lot of energy with little reward to hit like that IMO. There is nothing wrong with TLM learning to hit through and drive the ball more.

Nothing wrong at all with it if that is what he wants to do and how he wants to
play. He shouldn't do it because others like it though.
Maybe you can attack them and do well, but I'd like to see it done. If he does
a good job of working these to the smart targets you would have a lot on your
hands to take them out of the air...and it better be good, cause your position
will be tough for the next one. Rafa has done well with it despite the haters, and
at the rec level, it won't take near as much work as it does on tour.
tlm has already proven he does well with this style and players at his level
struggle greatly to deal with it.
He also has the ability to hit flatter on mid ct attacks anyway, but
by all means, have variety in your game!

tlm
01-02-2013, 08:00 PM
I agree and then I disagree. I would love to get balls like that because I know how to attack them. I think at a lower level of tennis, high kick is a very nice weapon, but it's not uncommon to see them. I have been practicing taking high bouncers out of the air, and it is eye opening how much time can be taken away from the opponent when you take them high.

It's a lot of energy with little reward to hit like that IMO. There is nothing wrong with TLM learning to hit through and drive the ball more.

I agree with some of your points, like you said with lower level players high kicking top spin gives them fits. But as you play the better players they can handle that shot much better.

I also agree that I should drive through the ball more, and if you notice there are some shots on the clip were I do hit through it more. My game is about consistency and with the high looping top spin I can rally consistently point after point. But when I get the shorter weak shot I do drive through and flatten out my shots more. I just wait for the higher % shot and then attack.

I play mostly 4.0-4.5 players and some are pretty solid players, the better ones will beat me but I do give them a good battle. You are correct to that my forehand does use a lot of energy, but believe me there is reward to that high kicking shots. Even the better players don't like it and it can give them problems.

I have ran into a few that can drive that high ball like you say, but most do not like the ball at shoulder height or above. The guys that handle the top spin the best play it off the rise.

Power Player
01-02-2013, 08:02 PM
5263 Come down here and hit and send me topspin kickers and Ill do it for you. Still waiting on some vid of you or the vid of the match you were supposed to play that never happened.

Rafa hits the heaviest ball in the world. It is insane to mimic that shot unless you are young and have great technique.

I guarantee you that ball is not kicking at all like Rafas. I can tell by his off balance and falling backwards that the ball will not have enough on it to bug a better player. If you want to argue that, go ahead and knock yourself out. But OP is doing the right thing by learning to hit through the ball, get his balance right and fix his footwork.

The reverse forehand is a waste of time without great footwork and great balance.

5263
01-02-2013, 08:10 PM
5263 Come down here and hit and send me topspin kickers and Ill do it for you. Still waiting on some vid of you or the vid of the match you were supposed to play that never happened.

Rafa hits the heaviest ball in the world. It is insane to mimic that shot unless you are young and have great technique.

I guarantee you that ball is not kicking at all like Rafas. I can tell by his off balance and falling backwards that the ball will not have enough on it to bug a better player.

Hey, did I say something you didn't like or offended you? No need to get sassy.

First, I'm not sure mine would be as effective as tlm's, as that is not my normal
stroke, so what I do has nothing to do with it.

What is insane is to think his ball needs to anywhere close to Rafa's to give
his opponents trouble. If it was anywhere near Rafa's, you wouldn't stand a
chance, would you? I'm not saying you can't do it. You are likely at least a half level
better, so you should be able to deal with it, right? I just said I'd like to see
you do it.

Power Player
01-02-2013, 08:20 PM
I know what you said. Id like to see you do, i dont know, anything? Im sure a lot of people echo that sentiment here.

Stop being passive agressive in every thread. You came in here to start something, made no sense, and contributed nothing that will help the op.

5263
01-02-2013, 08:33 PM
I know what you said. Id like to see you do, i dont know, anything? Im sure a lot of people echo that sentiment here.

Stop being passive agressive in every thread. You came in here to start something, made no sense, and contributed nothing that will help the op.

I'm glad you are interested in my game, but I, like tlm am and older guy and
and a former college football player and black belt instructor for years. I
say that to explain that I carry quite a few old injuries and pains from my
younger years. If I had some beautiful, exceptional strokes to share with
you and others here, I likely would do it. Likely you don't want to see my
strokes be good, but are more interested in pointing out faults; so why help
you pick on me :)

You are totally wrong about the passive aggressive thing, as I always thought
we had a respectful relationship here. I've nearly always been supportive of
your good posts and that has been quite often. Not sure what got your back
up. Forums can be tough on communication for all of us.

I'll let tlm decide how helpful I've been to his game.

canny
01-02-2013, 08:47 PM
I played a kid from another high school who swung just like that. He had better footwork and drove through the ball alittle more though. The balls weren't really heavy they just kicked a gooood bit. But after awhile I easily adjusted my contact zone and was crushing them.

Not saying you should change your technique if it's really working. But idk his shots became really predictable and right in my zone as the match went on. Unless you got the direction, variation and penetration to use it effectively I'd correct to a more proper form. Maybe something more Sharapova esque as the isnt much of a stretch from what you're doing.

Cheetah
01-02-2013, 08:49 PM
TLM,

innocent question here: Why do you swing like that?

Is it because you 'were' swinging like that a few years ago when you picked up the game and were trying to imitate someone and eventually you got it to work?

or is it because you've found success with it so why change it?
or is it because you've tried a more conventional swing but didn't have the discipline it would take to change your current form?
or is it because you've tried to change it but a different type just didn't work for you?
or is it because that's the only swing pattern that feels ok without some sort of pain or flexibility issue?
or is it because you just like swinging that way?

Again, innocent question. Just curious.

The reverse in itself is fine, I guess, but you seem to play a lot so I'm wondering how come you haven't gotten down to business and at least try to ingrane a slightly different footwork pattern so that you can really get some drive in that reverse if that's the way you want to go. You seem to be able to move well enough to do that.
I mean... just 1.5 steps configured a little differently would enable you to really pound it with that swing. I see a lot of wasted energy in that swing that if put into the ball would be a pretty heavy shot. The difference between your shot now and your shot with even just slightly more weight transfer and contact point adjustment would be huge.

tlm
01-03-2013, 03:31 AM
I played a kid from another high school who swung just like that. He had better footwork and drove through the ball alittle more though. The balls weren't really heavy they just kicked a gooood bit. But after awhile I easily adjusted my contact zone and was crushing them.

Not saying you should change your technique if it's really working. But idk his shots became really predictable and right in my zone as the match went on. Unless you got the direction, variation and penetration to use it effectively I'd correct to a more proper form. Maybe something more Sharapova esque as the isnt much of a stretch from what you're doing.


That is what a lot of people here don't understand I do drive through the ball more on shorter balls when I step into the court with time there are a few of those in the video clip.

But on the average rally ball I am pulling up and back because it puts more top spin on the ball. Most all the guys I play do not have a easy time adjusting their contact zone and are rarely crushing these shots.

tlm
01-03-2013, 03:49 AM
TLM,

innocent question here: Why do you swing like that?

Is it because you 'were' swinging like that a few years ago when you picked up the game and were trying to imitate someone and eventually you got it to work?

or is it because you've found success with it so why change it?
or is it because you've tried a more conventional swing but didn't have the discipline it would take to change your current form?
or is it because you've tried to change it but a different type just didn't work for you?
or is it because that's the only swing pattern that feels ok without some sort of pain or flexibility issue?
or is it because you just like swinging that way?

Again, innocent question. Just curious.

The reverse in itself is fine, I guess, but you seem to play a lot so I'm wondering how come you haven't gotten down to business and at least try to ingrane a slightly different footwork pattern so that you can really get some drive in that reverse if that's the way you want to go. You seem to be able to move well enough to do that.
I mean... just 1.5 steps configured a little differently would enable you to really pound it with that swing. I see a lot of wasted energy in that swing that if put into the ball would be a pretty heavy shot. The difference between your shot now and your shot with even just slightly more weight transfer and contact point adjustment would be huge.


Well after failing with conventional technique I purchased Oscar Wegners video series. I learned how to hit top spin quickly from his instruction, I was like wow I can finally swing out and keep the ball in the court.

Over last few years of playing in leagues I realized that trying to hit to aggressively did not work that often against better players. Playing consistent tennis is what won me a lot of matches. I found that when you added up the amount of my power forehands that the opponent was able to still get back plus the errors made playing overly aggressively it was not a winning formula.

By using my swing I am very consistent, the net is taken out of the picture and because I don't drive the ball to much and with so much spin I rarely hit long. Now i play a higher % type tennis, hitting varying amounts of spin and using angles until I get the shorter higher % put away shot.

Plus I play a lot of old school type players that love the flat fast shots and feed off them. But they do not know how to handle the looping high kicking shots of mine. Believe me even most of the better players that I face do not like that jumping shot. They keep to my back hand as much as possible.

But you are correct with some adjustment I can get more bang out of my shots, and I am working on that. I have done it at times use a similar swing but with more weight into it and more across follow through. Which as you said can make a big difference in my shots. But I think it will take some time to get this more ingrained.

tlm
01-03-2013, 01:55 PM
5263 Come down here and hit and send me topspin kickers and Ill do it for you. Still waiting on some vid of you or the vid of the match you were supposed to play that never happened.

Rafa hits the heaviest ball in the world. It is insane to mimic that shot unless you are young and have great technique.

I guarantee you that ball is not kicking at all like Rafas. I can tell by his off balance and falling backwards that the ball will not have enough on it to bug a better player. If you want to argue that, go ahead and knock yourself out. But OP is doing the right thing by learning to hit through the ball, get his balance right and fix his footwork.

The reverse forehand is a waste of time without great footwork and great balance.



The one line you got me thinking of is it is insane to mimic that shot unless you are young and have great technique. Which i have neither, but I am not trying to mimic anyone, for some reason my forehand has just become more reverse.

I am going to try and spend the rest of the winter trying to get better foot work and hit through the ball more.

sureshs
01-03-2013, 02:31 PM
Looks like a forehand influenced by Oscar Wegner.

I did use his videos to learn how to hit top spin.

...........................

arche3
01-03-2013, 02:36 PM
I am not a fan of how your hitting actually. you seem off balance on every hit. and most players I know myself included would get used to that ball real fast. I love shoulder high or higher fhs. easiest to drive. I like the reverse fh too. I just dont hit it everytime. usually only when stretched wide.

Not saying your shot is not effective but we really need to see it from the back so we can see how the ball is moving and placement coupled with your balance in the recovery. then I think I can give a better assessment of how effective that style is. It could very well be doing crazy things that I cant see.

sureshs
01-03-2013, 02:51 PM
...........................

sureshs
01-03-2013, 02:53 PM
Hey, did I say something you didn't like or offended you? No need to get sassy.

First, I'm not sure mine would be as effective as tlm's, as that is not my normal
stroke, so what I do has nothing to do with it.

What is insane is to think his ball needs to anywhere close to Rafa's to give
his opponents trouble. If it was anywhere near Rafa's, you wouldn't stand a
chance, would you? I'm not saying you can't do it. You are likely at least a half level
better, so you should be able to deal with it, right? I just said I'd like to see
you do it.

........................

sureshs
01-03-2013, 02:59 PM
Oh it is coming back to me. Deja vu all over again. You are the guy with the schizophrenic forehand, one which looks very good and the other which is err... unconventional. I withdraw all my comments.

Cheetah
01-03-2013, 05:57 PM
so tlm, what happens when someone asks you to warm up with mini-tennis?

tlm
01-03-2013, 07:22 PM
so tlm, what happens when someone asks you to warm up with mini-tennis?

I can hit some mini-tennis but don't do it often, not a big fan of it.

tlm
01-03-2013, 07:40 PM
I am not a fan of how your hitting actually. you seem off balance on every hit. and most players I know myself included would get used to that ball real fast. I love shoulder high or higher fhs. easiest to drive. I like the reverse fh too. I just dont hit it everytime. usually only when stretched wide.

Not saying your shot is not effective but we really need to see it from the back so we can see how the ball is moving and placement coupled with your balance in the recovery. then I think I can give a better assessment of how effective that style is. It could very well be doing crazy things that I cant see.


Maybe I am off balance sometimes but I really don't feel like I am that often.
You love shoulder high or higher forehands, okay but most players I hit with don't but some can drive it.

I do know that I have not found anyone that likes it to their backhand side and that is my strongest shot the inside out forehand to the righty's back hand, and I will pound that side to death if given the chance.

But I can tell that basically everyone on this site is a better player than me. And everyone could handle my top spin forehands and drive them for winners relentlessly.

Its just kinda strange that I play a lot of players and play in leagues a good part of the year in the 4.0 4-5 level and win more than I lose and even give the good players a good battle. So I guess most players here are strong 4.5 level and up.

tlm
01-03-2013, 07:43 PM
Oh it is coming back to me. Deja vu all over again. You are the guy with the schizophrenic forehand, one which looks very good and the other which is err... unconventional. I withdraw all my comments.

Go ahead and give your comments, I know my shots are unconventional. Lucky for me that the score does not go by style points.

arche3
01-03-2013, 07:56 PM
Maybe I am off balance sometimes but I really don't feel like I am that often.
You love shoulder high or higher forehands, okay but most players I hit with don't but some can drive it.

I do know that I have not found anyone that likes it to their backhand side and that is my strongest shot the inside out forehand to the righty's back hand, and I will pound that side to death if given the chance.

But I can tell that basically everyone on this site is a better player than me. And everyone could handle my top spin forehands and drive them for winners relentlessly.

Its just kinda strange that I play a lot of players and play in leagues a good part of the year in the 4.0 4-5 level and win more than I lose and even give the good players a good battle. So I guess most players here are strong 4.5 level and up.

Im sure it works kicking to the bh. I would for sure have trouble there. I did play ncaa d1 in cali so I was a pretty good player when young. Even playing a real match once every 2 months now I can beat most people I ever meet. I pretty much just coach my son now. So I'm not really in match shape. You just moved off balance to me thats all. Doesnt matter though as long as you win.

luvforty
01-03-2013, 08:03 PM
So I guess most players here are strong 4.5 level and up.

no - most people here will lose to you... your style is the most effective in the 3.5-4.5 spectrum, it combines the safety margin of a pusher, and error-drawing ability of an attacker.

it's funny people are still trying to yank to the left, while for 95% of them they should be thinking yanking to the sky like you do.

seriously.

tlm
01-03-2013, 08:40 PM
Im sure it works kicking to the bh. I would for sure have trouble there. I did play ncaa d1 in cali so I was a pretty good player when young. Even playing a real match once every 2 months now I can beat most people I ever meet. I pretty much just coach my son now. So I'm not really in match shape. You just moved off balance to me thats all. Doesnt matter though as long as you win.

I am sure you are a good player anyone that played div.1 is a very good player. I have seen guys like you before that no longer take the game that serious and not in the best shape, but will still beat most players because of superior skills. Thats great that your kid has a good player as a father to hit with, good luck helping him.

tlm
01-03-2013, 09:03 PM
no - most people here will lose to you... your style is the most effective in the 3.5-4.5 spectrum, it combines the safety margin of a pusher, and error-drawing ability of an attacker.

it's funny people are still trying to yank to the left, while for 95% of them they should be thinking yanking to the sky like you do.

seriously.

Thanks for the kind words. But the points you make are exactly what I have found to work for me. By not trying to drive through the ball to much on the average rally shot I rarely miss long and with the high trajectory I take the net out of the picture.

As long as I am getting enough spin on my shots even when they land just past the serve line they still kick up enough and make them tough to attack. So most of my shots land between the serve line and the baseline and by using smart targets and moving the ball around I can keep most people from attacking.

And like you say it provides a ton of safety margin but can still be somewhat aggressive and draw a lot of errors and short balls. I do step in and drive the ball flatter when I force the weak short ball, but only when it is high %. But most of my points come from my unorthodox shots drawing errors.

I would love to hit a couple shots and be able to rip a winner time after time without having to work the point as long as I do now, but other than those magic days when everything works I am not going to win very often doing that so I use what limited skills I have the most effective way, which are pretty much just like you described.

chico9166
01-04-2013, 02:35 AM
I did use his videos to learn how to hit top spin.

Yeah, it looks like it. But seriously, it's time to make some changes. It's obvious that you are looking to get better and are invested in your game. And while it seems you have a decent understanding of topspin and the necessary swing path, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more musculed, "arming it" stroke. It's just way too labor intensive.

I think you've been advised about this, but you really need to make a better turn, with the torso coiled, left arm stretch (by the time the ball bounces more or less). YOU NEED TO COIL/LOAD.......Practice (on the last step out with the right foot) turning your shoulder line further than your hip line. (since you prefer playing from a more open stance) Find this position, and you will immediately start to feel the rotational capabilities in the forward swing. You'll feel efficiency......

Secondly, it's important (at least in your stage of development) to start to develope a "momentum" based backswing. Some version of a loop....Right now you're taking the racquet back to some arbitrary point, stopping it, and then starting in up again.. This sort of backswing is very labor intensive, which is a characteristic of the overall look of your forehand. I feel this is one of the reasons your balance is so bad. In your quest to achieve racquet head speed from such a static position, you lunge, muscle, the racquet to an extreme extent...

tlm
01-04-2013, 03:11 AM
Yeah, it looks like it. But seriously, it's time to make some changes. It's obvious that you are looking to get better and are invested in your game. And while it seems you have a decent understanding of topspin and the necessary swing path, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more musculed, "arming it" stroke. It's just way too labor intensive.

I think you've been advised about this, but you really need to make a better turn, with the torso coiled, left arm stretch (by the time the ball bounces more or less). YOU NEED TO COIL/LOAD.......Practice (on the last step out with the right foot) turning your shoulder line further than your hip line. (since you prefer playing from a more open stance) Find this position, and you will immediately start to feel the rotational capabilities in the forward swing. You'll feel efficiency......

Secondly, it's important (at least in your stage of development) to start to develope a "momentum" based backswing. Some version of a loop....Right now you're taking the racquet back to some arbitrary point, stopping it, and then starting in up again.. This sort of backswing is very labor intensive, which is a characteristic of the overall look of your forehand. I feel this is one of the reasons your balance is so bad. In your quest to achieve racquet head speed from such a static position, you lunge, muscle, the racquet to an extreme extent...


What you are saying makes sense and ya you are correct my swing is labor intensive. I will try to incorporate what you are saying at practice tonight.

luvforty
01-04-2013, 04:14 AM
Thanks for the kind words. But the points you make are exactly what I have found to work for me. By not trying to drive through the ball to much on the average rally shot I rarely miss long and with the high trajectory I take the net out of the picture.

As long as I am getting enough spin on my shots even when they land just past the serve line they still kick up enough and make them tough to attack. So most of my shots land between the serve line and the baseline and by using smart targets and moving the ball around I can keep most people from attacking.

And like you say it provides a ton of safety margin but can still be somewhat aggressive and draw a lot of errors and short balls. I do step in and drive the ball flatter when I force the weak short ball, but only when it is high %. But most of my points come from my unorthodox shots drawing errors.

I would love to hit a couple shots and be able to rip a winner time after time without having to work the point as long as I do now, but other than those magic days when everything works I am not going to win very often doing that so I use what limited skills I have the most effective way, which are pretty much just like you described.

yup - this way of play also rarely break down when the pressure is high.... flat ballers may completely fall apart if they start missing in key situations, and some may never recover in a match, or some may start deceleration to keep the ball in and die by a 1000 cuts.

but with your style, you can still swing aggressively, sky is literally the limit.

the game that can effectively counter your style - needs to have a good game in the NML... either they take the ball early before it bounces up (which is tough), or they need to have a good 'continental game'... i.e. use continental grip to slice the ball down from both wings, and followed by a put away volley......

but this day and age, all the recs are still trying to yank to the left, how many of them know the conti game? lol.

Pet
01-04-2013, 05:20 AM
Here are a few forehands from practice today, my hitting partner is my wife.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzs

.... how many damage is Nadal causing.

Power Player
01-04-2013, 08:05 AM
yup - this way of play also rarely break down when the pressure is high.... flat ballers may completely fall apart if they start missing in key situations, and some may never recover in a match, or some may start deceleration to keep the ball in and die by a 1000 cuts.

but with your style, you can still swing aggressively, sky is literally the limit.

the game that can effectively counter your style - needs to have a good game in the NML... either they take the ball early before it bounces up (which is tough), or they need to have a good 'continental game'... i.e. use continental grip to slice the ball down from both wings, and followed by a put away volley......

but this day and age, all the recs are still trying to yank to the left, how many of them know the conti game? lol.

This is not completely true. You can take the ball out of the air with a sw grip as well. That is what i have been saying. I was shown how to do it by a coach at my club who is a top 500 atp player. It is not that difficult once you practice it and it punishes topspin balls. It is basially setting your point of contact higher.

loosegroove
01-04-2013, 09:00 AM
Thanks for posting. Those are some wanky looking strokes for sure. Though I can see how the loopy topspin can certainly be effective at the 4.0 level. I feel like you could achieve the same effect with a more fluid motion and less effort...your shots are all arm. And if those shots land short they would be perfect sitters, since the ball would be bouncing up and not though the court, no? I have to agree your footwork looks pretty stiff, and you look off-balance on many of your shots hitting a fade-away off the back foot.

luvforty
01-04-2013, 09:26 AM
Thanks for posting. Those are some wanky looking strokes for sure. Though I can see how the loopy topspin can certainly be effective at the 4.0 level. I feel like you could achieve the same effect with a more fluid motion and less effort...your shots are all arm. And if those shots land short they would be perfect sitters, since the ball would be bouncing up and not though the court, no? I have to agree your footwork looks pretty stiff, and you look off-balance on many of your shots hitting a fade-away off the back foot.

yeah... OP... you are indeed mostly arm.

you can do this more effortlessly with a higher take back, let the arm fall and swing up..... this way you get high kick ball with very little muscle effort, and perhaps less tendency to fall backwards.

Power Player
01-04-2013, 09:47 AM
No, its the feet. Footwork and balance.

tlm
01-04-2013, 02:16 PM
Thanks for posting. Those are some wanky looking strokes for sure. Though I can see how the loopy topspin can certainly be effective at the 4.0 level. I feel like you could achieve the same effect with a more fluid motion and less effort...your shots are all arm. And if those shots land short they would be perfect sitters, since the ball would be bouncing up and not though the court, no? I have to agree your footwork looks pretty stiff, and you look off-balance on many of your shots hitting a fade-away off the back foot.

If I am hitting well I can land the ball a foot past the serve line and it will easily carry well past the baseline, yes it does bounce up but it also goes forward.

What so many keep calling off balance and hitting a fade away is being done on purpose. The pulling up and back adds a lot of top spin to the ball, it is not hitting off balance. That is why I hit off the back foot at times, this is done purposely to get more spin and maintain control of the shot.

loosegroove
01-04-2013, 05:51 PM
If I am hitting well I can land the ball a foot past the serve line and it will easily carry well past the baseline, yes it does bounce up but it also goes forward.

What so many keep calling off balance and hitting a fade away is being done on purpose. The pulling up and back adds a lot of top spin to the ball, it is not hitting off balance. That is why I hit off the back foot at times, this is done purposely to get more spin and maintain control of the shot.

A foot past the service line actually seems a bit short, since that means by the time it reaches the baseline it's more in people's strike zone. Push that deeper and I can see it paying even greater dividends.

And say what you want, but your footwork and balance are off and are the biggest issues I (and others) would note. Why do you have to be falling back and hopping off of one foot to hit with topspin? It makes no sense, and at the very least is very ineffecient. I understand loading up the outside foot and hitting from an open stance, but purposely being late and hitting an open stance fade-away off of one foot is plain silly. It doesn't "add a lot of topspin"...maybe you've learned to hit with the most topspin hitting from this position, but it doesn't in and of itself add more topspin. You're making it way too hard for yourself out there...

tlm
01-04-2013, 07:37 PM
A foot past the service line actually seems a bit short, since that means by the time it reaches the baseline it's more in people's strike zone. Push that deeper and I can see it paying even greater dividends.

And say what you want, but your footwork and balance are off and are the biggest issues I (and others) would note. Why do you have to be falling back and hopping off of one foot to hit with topspin? It makes no sense, and at the very least is very ineffecient. I understand loading up the outside foot and hitting from an open stance, but purposely being late and hitting an open stance fade-away off of one foot is plain silly. It doesn't "add a lot of topspin"...maybe you've learned to hit with the most topspin hitting from this position, but it doesn't in and of itself add more topspin. You're making it way too hard for yourself out there...


I am not saying I try to hit only 1 foot past the serve line, usually around halfway between the serve line and baseline. My point was that if I get enough on my shot even if it lands only a foot from the serve line it will still carry well past the baseline.

If you watch the clip there are a few shots were I step in and transfer my weight forward and the follow through goes across my left shoulder. There are a couple were I have more time and I step into the court note the last shot in the video.

But in neutral rally shots from behind the baseline I do hit off the back foot a lot. And it does help create a lot of RHS by pulling back with a angular motion.

And it does help put a lot of top spin on the ball, which gives me a very very consistent rally shot that I rarely miss. Then when I get the short ball I step in and follow through on my forehand with a more conventional swing.

Power Player
01-04-2013, 09:12 PM
Show us the back angle next time.

canny
01-04-2013, 09:39 PM
This is not completely true. You can take the ball out of the air with a sw grip as well. That is what i have been saying. I was shown how to do it by a coach at my club who is a top 500 atp player. It is not that difficult once you practice it and it punishes topspin balls. It is basially setting your point of contact higher.

Im interested is how this is done. It'd be really helpful

loosegroove
01-04-2013, 10:00 PM
This is not completely true. You can take the ball out of the air with a sw grip as well. That is what i have been saying. I was shown how to do it by a coach at my club who is a top 500 atp player. It is not that difficult once you practice it and it punishes topspin balls. It is basially setting your point of contact higher.

Strange that people think a continental grip would be the most beneficial to combat this type of player. Your "standard" modern tennis stroke (ie windshield wiper sw forehand) excels at hitting these types of balls. Unlike a classic continental with a more linear forward path, with the windshield stroke you can create contact on a higher ball since the swing path already has a natural upward trajectory in a relatively short span, so as PP said, you're just hitting at a higher contact point for the most part. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not. As someone with a modern sw ww forehand, I can unload against most topspin shots...it's the hard flat hitters that give me more trouble.

tlm
01-05-2013, 07:44 AM
Show us the back angle next time.

Here are a couple from the back. I don't see were I am off balance that much. I know that I am lazy when hitting with the ball machine, I just don't get in a rhythm like in a rally.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-kJbwdxss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4JcLJ5u3c

tlm
01-05-2013, 07:58 AM
Thanks for posting. Those are some wanky looking strokes for sure. Though I can see how the loopy topspin can certainly be effective at the 4.0 level. I feel like you could achieve the same effect with a more fluid motion and less effort...your shots are all arm. And if those shots land short they would be perfect sitters, since the ball would be bouncing up and not though the court, no? I have to agree your footwork looks pretty stiff, and you look off-balance on many of your shots hitting a fade-away off the back foot.

Are these all off the back foot and all arm?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzs

loosegroove
01-05-2013, 09:38 AM
Are these all off the back foot and all arm?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ55yV8kTzs

No, of course not. Actually the interesting thing is how you are one extreme or the other. Either you are completely on your back foot fading away, or you're stepping forward and then hitting a shot off of your front foot. From the short clip you posted, I didnt' see any shot where you're loading up your outside (back) foot, and then hitting through the ball while transferring your weight to your front foot. Given your style of play and the stroke you prefer, I feel like that would be something to work on.

Power Player
01-05-2013, 09:55 AM
They look off balance to me. You want to be leaning into the court and hitting a recovery step after contact. The first thing that sticks out is your feet never move between balls. So if you ever play someone with a lot of experience, you are not going to be in position to hit the balls you want.

You need to get in the habit of always moving your feet between balls, even on a ball machine. What that will do is help you setup properly and get the balance fixed.

tlm
01-05-2013, 10:01 AM
They look off balance to me. You want to be leaning into the court and hitting a recovery step after contact. The first thing that sticks out is your feet never move between balls. So if you ever play someone with a lot of experience, you are not going to be in position to hit the balls you want.

You need to get in the habit of always moving your feet between balls, even on a ball machine. What that will do is help you setup properly and get the balance fixed.

I agree that I need to get into the habit of moving my feet between shots, which I do much more when playing but not with the ball machine.

tlm
01-05-2013, 10:03 AM
No, of course not. Actually the interesting thing is how you are one extreme or the other. Either you are completely on your back foot fading away, or you're stepping forward and then hitting a shot off of your front foot. From the short clip you posted, I didnt' see any shot where you're loading up your outside (back) foot, and then hitting through the ball while transferring your weight to your front foot. Given your style of play and the stroke you prefer, I feel like that would be something to work on.

I play a conservative grinding style from the back court, but when I get in the court with time I will attack with more weight into the shot and flatter trajectory.

Power Player
01-05-2013, 10:06 AM
Yeah its tough. You want to make it so you are doing it every time you play no matter what. You need to be split stepping and basically you should fix your footwork. I spent a lot of time on that and everything else clicked into place. People are going to focus on what your arm is doing..etc, but if you start with the feet, you will see a lot of improvements.

Right now it looks like the game is too fast for you and you are trying to catch up. The reason is because your footwork is not there and you are not anticipating the next ball. Even if you are, you are not able to get prepared for it in time.

I love this guy's website for footwork. It is a lot of stuff, but if you just start with the basics and only focus on that, you will see a difference.

http://www.thebaileymethod.com/

5263
01-05-2013, 10:12 AM
Here are a couple from the back. I don't see were I am off balance that much. I know that I am lazy when hitting with the ball machine, I just don't get in a rhythm like in a rally.



You are right, not all that much for a rec player, but it is low hanging fruit for
you to improve. Ur Balance is not terrible, but you are not stable enough for your
best control or focusing your easy power.

tlm
01-05-2013, 10:18 AM
Yeah its tough. You want to make it so you are doing it every time you play no matter what. You need to be split stepping and basically you should fix your footwork. I spent a lot of time on that and everything else clicked into place. People are going to focus on what your arm is doing..etc, but if you start with the feet, you will see a lot of improvements.

Right now it looks like the game is too fast for you and you are trying to catch up. The reason is because your footwork is not there and you are not anticipating the next ball. Even if you are, you are not able to get prepared for it in time.

I love this guy's website for footwork. It is a lot of stuff, but if you just start with the basics and only focus on that, you will see a difference.

http://www.thebaileymethod.com/


Great points PP and thanks for the clip.

tlm
01-05-2013, 10:20 AM
You are right, not all that much for a rec player, but it is low hanging fruit for
you to improve. Ur Balance is not terrible, but you are not stable enough for your
best control or focusing your easy power.

Ya your right, its a good thing I take some video once in a while otherwise I would not see these faults that I need to work on.

5263
01-05-2013, 10:21 AM
Ya your right, its a good thing I take some video once in a while otherwise I would not see these faults that I need to work on.

It's one of the things I see on my own video as well...
Something we all have to stay after...all the time really.

Cheetah
01-05-2013, 10:53 AM
Well I have to admit those balls are not as powder puffy as I thought they would be. Not bad. You seem to have good clearance and penetration when hitting with the machine. Off balance though and I think you'd get broken down against someone that could make you run side to side and up and back. It looks like you have more control than what you had in your vids from last year too.

But man... what a waste. :)
You would be able to hit soooo much better with just a few mods mainly to the footwork and a little swing adjustment. If you had better footwork and weight transfer you'd be able to make those shots sound like a rifle. Using less arm would give you higher rhs too.

tlm
01-05-2013, 05:35 PM
Well I have to admit those balls are not as powder puffy as I thought they would be. Not bad. You seem to have good clearance and penetration when hitting with the machine. Off balance though and I think you'd get broken down against someone that could make you run side to side and up and back. It looks like you have more control than what you had in your vids from last year too.

But man... what a waste. :)
You would be able to hit soooo much better with just a few mods mainly to the footwork and a little swing adjustment. If you had better footwork and weight transfer you'd be able to make those shots sound like a rifle. Using less arm would give you higher rhs too.

Well Cheetah I am going to take you and Power Players advise and really work on the footwork.