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View Full Version : Critique needed! Video of groundies/serves!


Bubbagumptennis
01-02-2013, 06:39 PM
Hey guys, it's Babolatbarry here in a new account.

Been working hard to try to get better and took some videos of myself! Input would be greatly appreciated. Also: I have no idea what my NTRP would be.. so if you could give me a range of just what I should register myself as, that would be great!

Groundstrokes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pm3Uq2KFzw

Serves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJIPPa-xZw

Personally I consider my backhand to be my best shot, and my forehand the worst. I'm no expert though!

Thank you guys for watching :D

luvforty
01-02-2013, 06:57 PM
actually -

the serve - this is your best stroke.. lots of good stuff there.. i like your loading and coiling... but you can make it better. you leave lots of RHS on the table by accelerating the head and the handle together... if you try the other extreme by exaggerating accelerating the head while SLOWING down the handle, you will feel what it's like to dump all the momentum on the head, and achieve the tell-tale high hand high elbow finish.

the FH - it's serviceable, I'd say the room for improvement is more in the footwork than in the stroke itself.

the BH - it still looks disconnected to me.... how does it hold up during match when they pound your BH? don't worry much about staying sideways... let the arm stay connected to the chest and rotate your core thru the contact.

you (accidentally) showed 1 volley and it was miserable... gotta shore that up, otherwise they will pull you to the net and undress you naked there :)

Bubbagumptennis
01-02-2013, 07:02 PM
Thank you for the response! My serve I have been doing a lot of tinkering with over the last year and right now it is at it's best but I definitely think it needs improvement. I will try what you said to!
My footwork definitely needs to improve, I have lazy feet -_-
My backhand holds up in matches, but you're right when it gets a hard flattish ball hit to it, you can basically kiss the point goodbye for me!
My volleys..yeah...I have no volley skills whatsoever!

Bubbagumptennis
01-02-2013, 07:51 PM
Oh I forgot to mention! My forehand has been dissected a lot too over probably the last 3 to 4 months, hopefully the form is okay, it holds up in matches pretty well now.

ATP100
01-02-2013, 08:51 PM
Hit your groundies higher. This will help you learn faster.

Cheetah
01-02-2013, 09:04 PM
post a vid taken from behind

Bubbagumptennis
01-03-2013, 10:50 AM
Thanks lol

dizzlmcwizzl
01-03-2013, 01:01 PM
Well ... I wont comment on your strokes as they are better than mine. I will say that as far as NTRP range that is hard to judge without seeing match play.

I will say that I am a 4.5 and I would not be scared of you in a doubles match based on what I see. In your rally shots you simply dont move your feet. I have 100 pounds on you and I still move my feet to hit balls occasionally. And the one volley we see would scare no one. Perhaps in singles being young and quick (which all young people are aren't they?) would help you considerably.

So if you were playing doubles exclusively I would say no higher than 3.5. But you could be as high as a 4.0 in singles provided your quickness made up for other deficiencies.

luvforty
01-03-2013, 01:06 PM
OP you can play 4.0 ball alright... the 4.5 people will quickly figure out you don't have a volley lol.

NLBwell
01-03-2013, 01:13 PM
First hints:
Forehand - think back quicker, forward slower. If you get your racket back sooner, you can have a more gradual acceleration to the ball and less of a fast swat.
Backhand - get contact point consistently in front of you. Looks like it is often at your hip or even behind it.
Serve - Get elbow up more and racket head down more.

dlesser13
01-03-2013, 01:26 PM
Forget NTRP, junior tournaments don't use it. You don't need a rating until you're 19.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 10:46 AM
Do you guys think I should try to change the grip on my fh?

isilra
01-04-2013, 03:32 PM
First i thought you have a very nice whipping action but now i see that you lock your wrist back when you take your backswing. This is okay but mostly WTA players and classic hitters use that technique called a push forehand. Your takeback trajectory is more suitable to a pull style modern forehand and you can achieve this by pronating your forearm and leeding with your elbow during the backswing. When you pronate, you need to supinate to hit the ball and that supination will leave the racquet behind and create the lag effect if it is started with a strong body turn. Somebody explains it like pulling the racquet butt towards the ball. Fed and most of the ATP players excluding delpo using that technique. Especially Mardy Fish one explains the action very well and simple. Look how the racquet goes behind when he supinates his forearm back;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huDPxUj8yLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Qt1lQ2fv0

Of course you can choose to stay with your own technique but if you do that, i suggest you to take a bigger and continuous loop to gain more momentum and racquet head speed. Your stroke is something like a WTA stroke with an ATP takeback. Choose either WTA or ATP and continue your way.

luvforty
01-04-2013, 03:44 PM
OP what's your goal - you want to win in competitions.... shore up your weakness first...

fh grip is not gonna matter if you can't volley.... right now your serve and fh are both serviceable... you bh needs a little work.. but you need a net game... it's the low hanging fruit for you... volleys are lot easier to learn than groundies.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 04:04 PM
Yeah my overall goal is to play college ball somewhere, and thank you isilra for the videos!

luvforty
01-04-2013, 04:12 PM
good goal -

yeah, shore up the weaknesses, get involved in jr tournaments, varsity ball, and see how your game stack up.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 04:18 PM
I played 5th/4th on varsity for my team last year as a freshman, lost 6-1 6-1 to a guy ranked top 30 in NC now. So hopefully thats something that I can use as motivation. Will definitely take everything that was said into account

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 04:19 PM
In NC there was a team last year that had all of their top 6 in the top 40 in the state lmao

UCSF2012
01-04-2013, 04:31 PM
Shots look flanky and shaky. Emphasis on shaky, esp on the backhand. You don't have the racket control in your hands.

You're still young and growing, so it'll come with time. For now, grip the racket a bit tighter, and practice generating RHS. You'll grow into that racket.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 04:41 PM
I was actually debating on going to an easier racquet to play with for a while but figured "I'm growing so why switch"

UCSF2012
01-04-2013, 04:41 PM
Actually, there's a lot of things going wrong, and it'll take some time to elaborate though them.

For this post, the biggest error on your forehand is your racket takeback. RIGHT BEFORE the swing, your racket is ABOVE head level. This is entirely inappropriate. (I don't know how to screen capture, but at 3:11 is when it's most clear.) Swing low to high, as you're accelerating through the ball. You're accelerating high to low, then ending up high. That's different. You see what I mean?

UCSF2012
01-04-2013, 04:43 PM
I was actually debating on going to an easier racquet to play with for a while but figured "I'm growing so why switch"

Stick with the racket. This is when a boy becomes a man, for TENNIS anyway.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 04:47 PM
Oh yeah I see what you mean with the low to high thing, that would probably create more spin right?

UCSF2012
01-04-2013, 04:55 PM
It's the basis for topspin. But even if you hit flat, it helps bring the ball down. I don't know why (inertia?) but it does.

On your backhand, it's all arm. Do this: as you take your racket back, put all weight on your back foot. Step in/forward with your right foot, with your weight shifting from your back foot to your right foot. As you're stepping in, you start your swing in conjunction. As the point of ball contact, you should - by default - have enough forward momentum to crush the ball.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 05:05 PM
That makes a lot of sense, I'll try that the next time I head out and play, I'll take a video of it also.

luvforty
01-04-2013, 05:13 PM
OP your bh ---- look at that space under your right arm pit through out the motion.. clear sign of arming the ball..

there should be some pressure maintained under the arm pit to the moment of impact.

timing is tricky for 1hbh, because you don't have the support of the other hand.... so you need to get some support from your chest.

Bubbagumptennis
01-04-2013, 05:24 PM
Oh yeah I think I saw that in the other thread you started

NLBwell
01-04-2013, 09:25 PM
First hints:
Forehand - think back quicker, forward slower. If you get your racket back sooner, you can have a more gradual acceleration to the ball and less of a fast swat.
Backhand - get contact point consistently in front of you. Looks like it is often at your hip or even behind it.
Serve - Get elbow up more and racket head down more.

The basics of many of the comments on your video are above. Please keep these in mind.

UCSF2012
01-05-2013, 05:17 AM
Actually, backhand suffers from the same mistake as the forehand. The swing STARTS when the racket is high, while it should be: start low, finish high. When a player has his racket high initially, it's just to setup and prepare to hit the shot. THEN he places the racket low, and STARTS accelerating the racket high. You start the acceleration while high. Critical error. That's why your shot looks shaky and looks like you have little racket control. You're forcing your arm and wrist to swing the racket through a difficult loop.

UCSF2012
01-05-2013, 05:21 AM
On your serves, toss the ball more slowly. That gets the ball at the same location more times.

TennisCJC
01-05-2013, 11:18 AM
You have a good game. I would say a very strong 3.5 or a lower 4.0. If you are serious about playing college tennis, I suggest these things:

1. Lessons once a week with a good coach - you want someone who has played college tennis or better who is also a respected coach.
2. Join a 4.0 USTA team or equivalent internet ladder league. Try to play 1 or 2 competitive matches per weak.
3. Work on all the strokes - your serve looks like it could be very good 4.0 and heading higher. Your groundstrokes look pretty good but can get better quickly with a coach. You need volleys if you want to play college or 4.0+ tennis. Playing lots of doubles and coming in on all short balls will help you learn to volley, 1/2 volley and hit overheads.

Bubbagumptennis
01-05-2013, 09:55 PM
I have a few tournaments coming up!

Mick3391
01-06-2013, 12:01 AM
Hey guys, it's Babolatbarry here in a new account.

Been working hard to try to get better and took some videos of myself! Input would be greatly appreciated. Also: I have no idea what my NTRP would be.. so if you could give me a range of just what I should register myself as, that would be great!

Groundstrokes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pm3Uq2KFzw

Serves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJIPPa-xZw

Personally I consider my backhand to be my best shot, and my forehand the worst. I'm no expert though!

Thank you guys for watching :D

I'm no teacher, but you just sit there and wait for a bounce, you let the ball dictate your hits, sometimes a foot back or up is the difference, YOU have to make the pace, you are just waiting there, then going through the motions.

Will watch serve now.

Bubbagumptennis
01-07-2013, 10:11 AM
I have tryouts monday for the tennis team.. Gonna seriously work on my backhand up until then!

Bubbagumptennis
01-07-2013, 11:57 AM
So If I were to just lower my takeback on my forehand and swing up, it would help a lot?

UCSF2012
01-07-2013, 03:33 PM
So If I were to just lower my takeback on my forehand and swing up, it would help a lot?

Let's break it down like this, for the sake of argument: the preparation phase and the swing phase.

Prep phase: racket back (usually back and HIGH), weight on back foot. At the end of the prep phase, PLACE the racket back and LOW.

Swing phase: Shift your weight forward to your front foot. From the back and low position of the racquet, thrust forwards and upwards. Finish high.

You DO NOT start swinging from the high/back position. PLACE the racket first into back/low THEN you accelerate forward/high. What you're doing is...you take your racket back/high then immediately swing. Sometimes you swing forward/high, sometimes you swing forward/low and end high.

Bubbagumptennis
01-07-2013, 04:56 PM
Ohh kind of like (for lack of a better term) a windmill!

Bubbagumptennis
01-07-2013, 06:53 PM
Playing a level 6 tournament in venice florida this weekend.. should I stick with my one hander and see how it holds up or try to make something happen with 2 hands? I'm about as evenly skilled with 2 hands as I am 1, I just like the look of the 1 hander

UCSF2012
01-07-2013, 07:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QMF5U-GdjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do3-geZv9WQ

The two phases are connected, so it LOOKS like one complete swing. However, your muscles do different things in each stage. The forward/upwards thrust comes instantaneously after you place the racket frame low

Bubbagumptennis
01-08-2013, 01:54 PM
Would Murray be a good forhand to emulate?

bhallic24
01-08-2013, 02:28 PM
your cameraman needs to be fired.

pvaudio
01-08-2013, 03:00 PM
I'll let the past lie.

Footwork man, footwork. That seriously doesn't seem to be emphasized hardly any these days.

tlm
01-08-2013, 03:27 PM
Well ... I wont comment on your strokes as they are better than mine. I will say that as far as NTRP range that is hard to judge without seeing match play.

I will say that I am a 4.5 and I would not be scared of you in a doubles match based on what I see. In your rally shots you simply dont move your feet. I have 100 pounds on you and I still move my feet to hit balls occasionally. And the one volley we see would scare no one. Perhaps in singles being young and quick (which all young people are aren't they?) would help you considerably.

So if you were playing doubles exclusively I would say no higher than 3.5. But you could be as high as a 4.0 in singles provided your quickness made up for other deficiencies.

You say you are a 4.5 player but his strokes are better than yours? Then you say that he could only play 3.5 level doubles but 4.0 level singles. So what are your strokes then?

I see many players that only play doubles and play a level higher than if they played singles. It is the exact opposite of what you are saying, doubles is were players can get away with playing up. But in singles there is nowhere to hide.

I have been on quite a few teams and even the guys that only play singles could easily play doubles effectively on the team. But the majority of the doubles guys would get their butts beat and never win a match in singles. And most would have to go down a level to play singles. So you have it completely backwards.

dizzlmcwizzl
01-08-2013, 04:04 PM
You say you are a 4.5 player but his strokes are better than yours? Then you say that he could only play 3.5 level doubles but 4.0 level singles. So what are your strokes then?

I see many players that only play doubles and play a level higher than if they played singles. It is the exact opposite of what you are saying, doubles is were players can get away with playing up. But in singles there is nowhere to hide.

Well it is ok to disagree with me, I dont mind ... As far as my strokes are concerned, I have posted many of them here (http://youtu.be/LoP5VzogdvI?t=1m3s) ... take a look for yourself. What I never do is offer technical advice on how to improve because i would not want to lead anyone down my "hitch-riddled" path.

What I do know well is USTA league play, which is why I offered him an answer to his question.

I have been on quite a few teams and even the guys that only play singles could easily play doubles effectively on the team. But the majority of the doubles guys would get their butts beat and never win a match in singles. And most would have to go down a level to play singles. So you have it completely backwards


He has a nice foundation to build on. But what I did not see was an ability to volley which I think we will agree sometimes happens in doubles.

While I think your statement applies for older players that have stopped playing singles years ago I believe the opposite is true for young players.

On our last three state championship teams we have had young guys that were bumped because of their singles play but each of them were not nearly as good a player on the doubles court. Quite frankly they could compensate in singles for their lack of net playing ability with their young athletic legs. I do not believe one of those players would have been bumped had they played exclussively doubles.

Now others may disagree with me but I think veteran experienced players are usually better at dubs than singles. Young players tend to be better at singles. Our young man is fifteen ... I dont think he can volley so I made a case for what I think is the normal pattern in his specific case.

Bubbagumptennis
01-08-2013, 04:34 PM
Yeah my volleys aren't very fundamentally sound at all, I definitely need to work on them

tlm
01-08-2013, 05:27 PM
Well it is ok to disagree with me, I dont mind ... As far as my strokes are concerned, I have posted many of them here (http://youtu.be/LoP5VzogdvI?t=1m3s) ... take a look for yourself. What I never do is offer technical advice on how to improve because i would not want to lead anyone down my "hitch-riddled" path.

What I do know well is USTA league play, which is why I offered him an answer to his question.




He has a nice foundation to build on. But what I did not see was an ability to volley which I think we will agree sometimes happens in doubles.

While I think your statement applies for older players that have stopped playing singles years ago I believe the opposite is true for young players.

On our last three state championship teams we have had young guys that were bumped because of their singles play but each of them were not nearly as good a player on the doubles court. Quite frankly they could compensate in singles for their lack of net playing ability with their young athletic legs. I do not believe one of those players would have been bumped had they played exclussively doubles.

Now others may disagree with me but I think veteran experienced players are usually better at dubs than singles. Young players tend to be better at singles. Our young man is fifteen ... I dont think he can volley so I made a case for what I think is the normal pattern in his specific case.


I don't know which player you are in the clip, but that does not really matter because like most doubles play there is only a average of 3 shots per point so it is hard to judge. Plus putting away floaters and sitters 5 feet away from the net is not impressive and means little if anything when it comes to singles.


I have seen many older singles guys that beat the younger fast guys in singles, because of their experience and smart play. On average I have more trouble with the older singles guys than I do the younger ones.



I did not see enough of his volleys to judge his ability. I do agree that veteran experienced players are better at doubles. I never said that the younger in shape single players would be better than the veteran doubles players at doubles.

I said that on every team I have been on the singles players could easily make the line up in doubles and be a solid doubles player, not the best doubles players on the team but plenty good enough. But when you turn it around the amount of doubles players that could play the singles slot it goes way down to a very small minority if any.

Most would be lucky to win a couple of matches all year if they stayed at singles. I know guys that have played on 4.5 doubles teams and were pretty solid players, but in 4.0 singles got their butts beat easily. The same with 4.0 double players that would play in 3.5 singles and lose most of the time.

Most leagues were I live are club leagues and there are 2 different leagues, and in one you could be a 4.0 but still play 3.5 in the other one. So I have seen the examples I stated happen many times.

Bubbagumptennis
01-09-2013, 05:26 AM
I really don't know anything about USTA league at all I should look into it!

dizzlmcwizzl
01-09-2013, 10:19 AM
I really don't know anything about USTA league at all I should look into it!

No, league tennis is an 18 +thing. If you are going to college you won't play league at all until you are done school.

I would not worry about it at all for now

Bubbagumptennis
01-10-2013, 03:22 AM
Ohhh I gotcha thanks

Bubbagumptennis
01-14-2013, 08:50 AM
Played against the 34th ranked 16u guy in florida. Got destroyed obviously. Things I realized about my strokes
-1st serve is definitely a weapon as I had a few aces/unreturned serves
-2nd serve, AWFUL - was rocketed back 60% of the time
-Forehand is okay, but takes way too much time to get it ready, controlled a few points with it but ended up missing the winner attempt (Poor execution)
-One handed backhand is horrible against hard flat balls, but when I had some time I hit it okay
-Switched to 2 hander for a few games and had some errors but made good contact
-Was passed at the net 5 times, so I need approach shot help.

luvforty
01-14-2013, 09:00 AM
2nd serve pts won, the most important stat in pro tennis... appears to be relevant in your case too.

you are only as good as your weakness.. yeah, #1 priority, other than the 2nd srv, is to shore up that bh, and work on volleys so you can apply legit pressure....

Bubbagumptennis
01-14-2013, 09:07 AM
I'd never played anyone as good as him so I've never really needed a good reliable 2nd serve, and now I realize that I need one, very badly. I've switched to a 2 hander, it's better against harder hit balls