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View Full Version : Here is how to WIN in every match, yes I'm serious


Mick3391
01-04-2013, 07:17 PM
Beer Is Bad For You, Even Once Every Two Months

Mick3391
01-04-2013, 07:26 PM
One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body, doesn't matter if you hold your racquet Western or Eastern, these are basics, it's in the MIND, PERIOD.

Passion4Tennis
01-04-2013, 07:41 PM
I don't think this thread will get as much attention as your "sissies" one,
but we'll see how it shakes out. Best of luck, though.

tlm
01-04-2013, 08:58 PM
One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body, doesn't matter if you hold your racquet Western or Eastern, these are basics, it's in the MIND, PERIOD.

Actually you may be a little over the top, but I have to think there is some truth to what you are saying.

sureshs
01-04-2013, 09:07 PM
My best tennis is certainly not inside me. It is just not there.

NLBwell
01-04-2013, 09:56 PM
sureshs, your best tennis is your inner Oscar. You just need 5263 to bring it out of you.

NLBwell
01-04-2013, 09:58 PM
The way to win every match is to play people who aren't nearly as good as you.



Why would you want to win every match unless you are close to #1 on the ATP computer?

corbind
01-05-2013, 12:22 AM
sureshs, your best tennis is your inner Oscar. You just need 5263 to bring it out of you.

That's pretty funny indeed. :)

sundaypunch
01-05-2013, 06:20 AM
Yet another 1-star thread. FYI, a "short lob barely over the net" is called a drop shot.....

tennis_balla
01-05-2013, 06:36 AM
Modern game includes no mid-court or net play?
Wrong.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

guitarplayer
01-05-2013, 07:02 AM
Having thought about "Tips" for some time, I believe I have the answer. Yes, you must be in shape, yes, you must practice non stop, but the answer is easy.

Look at all the advice solicited on this forum. Most people DON'T KNOW. Even the good players are not sure.

ALWAYS DO THE OPPOSITE! ALWAYS. Think! Guy practice the so called "Modern Game", that only means they can't handle mid-court or the net, they were TRAINED to dictact from the baseline.

Likewise, if you find, which is rare, a true SV learn baseline play.

But it gets better than that. Questions are asked, "How to improve.......". The answer is obvious, practice, practice, then more, do EVERYTHING what do you have to lose?

How do you have a top ranked player "Not very good at the net", or anything? Just like making muscle, you use muscle confusion to make your muscles adapt, same deal here, EVERY SHOT should be different, long baseling shot, then a short lob, then net, the baseling, these guys today ARE ROBOTS!

Mix it up. Think about it, you are a baseliner, then once in awhile you have a short lob barely over the new, will that not make you insecure? You heh never know do you. What about side spin low shots that I do and others are doing?.

When I hear, "How do I improve my forehand", for example, no offense but I think "Do what I did, practice your tail off to see what works of throw in the towel", I mean what are we talking about here, "Well, see, hold your hand like this, and....."

Tennis is a totally mental sport, that's why it's popular even though we don't think that, it's MENTAL. I'm in HORRIBLE SHAPE, but I'd whip most on this board by making quick winners.

So forget this "New Tennis" BS, even Sampras said "Well in the modern game I"d lick my chops at someone who wants to stay back".

Ignore all of these "Gurus", who give us plentious words, just to be paid".

Do like what MR. Miogy said "YOUR BEST TENNIS IS NOT LEARNED BUT IS INSIDE YOU"


Kids, this is why you don't take drugs.
Kids, this is why you don't take drugs and start posting.

tlm
01-05-2013, 08:58 AM
Modern game includes no mid-court or net play?
Wrong.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.


This is a excellent explanation of why S+V is no longer used much or very effective at the higher levels of tennis any longer.

5263
01-05-2013, 10:00 AM
Modern game includes no mid-court or net play?
Wrong.

You got it balla,
Most of what he has described IS the modern game today. Play well from the BL.
Play awesome from the mid ct and transitions. Be able to volley well when it
comes down to close range combat.

Tennis has evolved much like MMA, where it started as kickboxing, then close in
ground fighting took over, followed by a much more balanced fighter who can
bring the match to his strengths and defend incredibly in his non-strengths, but
really has few to no true weaknesses.

LuckyR
01-05-2013, 10:03 AM
One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body, doesn't matter if you hold your racquet Western or Eastern, these are basics, it's in the MIND, PERIOD.

Glad to hear someone finally figured out tennis.

What was your recond in matchplaying using your own advice and what is your strategy when you play someone who is following your advice?

sundaypunch
01-05-2013, 11:39 AM
Kids, this is why you don't take drugs.
Kids, this is why you don't take drugs and start posting.

In all seriousness, do you think it is a coincidence that this thread and the "sissies" thread were both started on a Friday or Saturday night?

sureshs
01-05-2013, 12:03 PM
sureshs, your best tennis is your inner Oscar

So we both agree there is no best tennis there

sureshs
01-05-2013, 12:05 PM
So forget this "New Tennis" BS, even Sampras said "Well in the modern game I"d lick my chops at someone who wants to stay back".


Why "even" Sampras? Because everyone else is a better serve and volleyer than him?

BTW, Nadal would have taken him out easily.

Relinquis
01-05-2013, 01:35 PM
Why "even" Sampras? Because everyone else is a better serve and volleyer than him?

BTW, Nadal would have taken him out easily.

easily? on clay for sure, but i doubt so on grass or fast hardcourts. I'm not sure he'd even win on those surfaces (with or without current strings), nevermind easily.

MarinaHighTennis
01-05-2013, 05:04 PM
I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

slowfox
01-05-2013, 05:10 PM
I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

One guy at my local courts loves to hit a forehand slice. It has crazy sidespin. He says he's used it many a time to dismiss them young guns... lol

MarinaHighTennis
01-05-2013, 05:13 PM
One guy at my local courts loves to hit a forehand slice. It has crazy sidespin. He says he's used it many a time to dismiss them young guns... lol

Where I live, there's so many of them lol. I hate it hahaha :P

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Modern game includes no mid-court or net play?
Wrong.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 09:37 PM
Real tennis can't be taught, it has to be devoloped inside, because it's an expression of the mind into the body, NO ONE can teach this.

So yea it's great to say "Hold your hand like this, or that", but no one can get bejond the basics of a 4.5 or whatever player by instruction, who taught Federer to be Federer? Case closed!

Again Mr. Miyogi was right in the movie franchise, "I give you roots, but real Karate comes out of you", same deal Tennis, tips for amateurs, I understand, but TENNIS IS A TRANSFERANCE OF THE MIND INTO THE BODY, anything else is BS for some to make money teaching nonsense.

PS: If you think you can be taught real tennis, I can teach you to be Robert Deniro!

NLBwell
01-05-2013, 09:59 PM
So if I truly believe in my mind that I can be taught real tennis, I can become Robert DeNiro? Is that the point of the first post?

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 10:05 PM
I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

Yea, it's just MY OPINION, it's amazing these forums, guys get brutal mad, all I'm saying without polictical correctness is my view, my view MAY BE WRONG, but no one will learn anything without debate in kindness and respect, I stand behind what I said, if others get upset that's their problem.

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 10:09 PM
One guy at my local courts loves to hit a forehand slice. It has crazy sidespin. He says he's used it many a time to dismiss them young guns... lol

Right! All I'm saying is to dismiss the gurus, get tennis in your heart, then let it be an expression of that in your body.

Yea man, sidespin hard forehand low, no one knows what to do with it because the "gurus" hadn't covered that in their lessons to make money.

Never forget guys, this sport is dominated by money, it's a "blue blood" sport, look how they treat the pro's.

I'm just no PC, if you want that you won't like me, sorry:)

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 10:16 PM
So if I truly believe in my mind that I can be taught real tennis, I can become Robert DeNiro? Is that the point of the first post?

No, focus. If you think you can be taught to be your own man, with your own style, ability, etc. by an instructor, you are buying a load of C...P.

You can be taught the basics, which is what this forum is about, the basics, "Oh how do I hit a forehand", cool, but real tennis is inside you. There are a million Deniro's, only a few come out and express themselves, NO ONE taught Deniro or Pachino how to act, did they take acting lessons? You bet, but that didn't make them genious', THEY DID.

They expressed themselves, if you think that you can go through the same training as Fed or Nadal and play like them, you are fooling yourself.

Again, as corney as it sounds I go back to Mr. Miyogi, "I have taught you the basics, giving you a root, now it's time for you to grow, and you will grow your own way", same deal tennis, you FIND YOUR WAY, become YOUR OWN MAN. We are created in God's image with CREATIVITY, use it!

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 10:21 PM
In all seriousness, do you think it is a coincidence that this thread and the "sissies" thread were both started on a Friday or Saturday night?

Yea, I am a honest man, little bit of beer each time. At least I admit it, society today pretends to be perfect, I'm not, so yea I let it go once in awhile when I'm not so politically correct, some find it refreshing truth, even if I make a mistake.:)

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 10:25 PM
This is a excellent explanation of why S+V is no longer used much or very effective at the higher levels of tennis any longer.

Watch .50 seconds in and tell me playing mid court is not important. You teachers ruin the game by strangling creativity;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EazofVGBoF4

TomT
01-05-2013, 10:56 PM
Yea, I am a honest man, little bit of beer each time. At least I admit it, society today pretends to be perfect, I'm not, so yea I let it go once in awhile when I'm not so politically correct, some find it refreshing truth, even if I make a mistake.:)No problem Mick. At least half the posts I've made here have been under the influence of LOTS of beer. :)

But I'm absolutely sober now, and do agree that of all the factors involved in becoming the best player one can become, the most important are the internal and internalized ones. I bolded and italicized "internalized" because I think that at least some of the good inside stuff can be learned from practicing things communicated by insightful teachers.

TomT
01-05-2013, 11:00 PM
Watch .50 seconds in and tell me playing mid court is not important. You teachers ruin the game by strangling creativity;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EazofVGBoF4Great vid. It's a keeper. Thanks.

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 11:04 PM
:)No problem Mick. At least half the posts I've made here have been under the influence of LOTS of beer. :)

But I'm absolutely sober now, and do agree that of all the factors involved in becoming the best player one can become, the most important are the internal and internalized ones. I bolded and italicized "internalized" because I think that at least some of the good inside stuff can be learned from practicing things communicated by insightful teachers.

I understand, but I'm telling you if you and I both hit a wall things would be very close, the difference is my MENTAL transference to my body, that's all.

I am into science, but also faith, my faith says we are made in God's image, and one of those traits I've studied is man, among all creatures, creativity. In other words, knowledge is one thing, creativity CREATES KNOWLEDGE, something unique to man.

So maybe I had the disavantage of not really being taught, as I said before, kids today aren't really "taught" computers, but my son can outdue me, maybe we are more open younger? I don't know.

Anyways God bless, next time you play think of me, that I NEVER think of what I'm going to do, TRY IT, you have nothing to lose, you may be surprised if you mentally inject CONFIDENCE for "Do this", that you will do a shot that you look back on and say "Wow, I did that". This proves my point I think.:)

TomT
01-05-2013, 11:28 PM
:)

I understand, but I'm telling you if you and I both hit a wall things would be very close, the difference is my MENTAL transference to my body, that's all.

I am into science, but also faith, my faith says we are made in God's image, and one of those traits I've studied is man, among all creatures, creativity. In other words, knowledge is one thing, creativity CREATES KNOWLEDGE, something unique to man.

So maybe I had the disavantage of not really being taught, as I said before, kids today aren't really "taught" computers, but my son can outdue me, maybe we are more open younger? I don't know.

Anyways God bless, next time you play think of me, that I NEVER think of what I'm going to do, TRY IT, you have nothing to lose, you may be surprised if you mentally inject CONFIDENCE for "Do this", that you will do a shot that you look back on and say "Wow, I did that". This proves my point I think.:)Mick, I've never taken a tennis lesson, don't practice much, and don't think when I'm playing. I'm not sure, but I think there's a connection between one or more of those things and the fact that my unique and creatively beautiful tennis game sucks competitively. :)

I'm gonna hit the sack now. Good talking with you.

Mick3391
01-05-2013, 11:39 PM
Great vid. It's a keeper. Thanks.

Yea, it seem like all of Federers "No way" shots are in mid court, glad no one taught him not to play there!:)

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 01:15 AM
You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

No, you wouldn't

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 01:26 AM
You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

Academics and theories? I said academy coaches, not academics. Look up what a tennis academy is. Also, these are no theories.

Watch .50 seconds in and tell me playing mid court is not important. You teachers ruin the game by strangling creativity;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EazofVGBoF4


That's not mid court, that's net play.
Anyways, serious question here. Where did you come to the conclusion that tennis coaches strangle players creativity?

Mick3391
01-06-2013, 03:33 AM
Academics and theories? I said academy coaches, not academics. Look up what a tennis academy is. Also, these are no theories.




That's not mid court, that's net play.
Anyways, serious question here. Where did you come to the conclusion that tennis coaches strangle players creativity?

Simple, all you have to do is WATCH IT BEFORE SPEAKING.

Watch Fed pick up shots mid court, "No mans land", his "No Way" shots, by commentators and fans are always mid court or the net, so think what you will, hate debating emotional women who can't use logic.

It's incredible, you listen to commentators, they say things like "Well Djokavich is not good at the net", AMAZING, top guy, can't play all court.

Maybe you need a lesson in all court, all it means is that someone is as accomplished everywhere they play, a baseliner in not, so modern teachers "Choke Creativity" BIG TIME when they say "Oh, yea the game has changed, get back three feet behind the baseline, here's your 110 inch racket, I look good, get paid right"?

Guarenteed, next great serve and volleyer, or if they speed up courts, you'll be like "Heh, we need to train the new way, all court", "We don't do mindless baseline anymore".

I play with people like you on the courts, you have no idea how to deal with a short side spin shot, hard low left angled shot, no clue! I beat pro's girl, so don't talk unless you know what you are talking about, sick of fools who can't play trying to commentate my points that can help others, Tennis is in the MIND.

Mick3391
01-06-2013, 03:38 AM
Yea what are you going to do when my SON, 12 years old, drop a shot barely over the net off your hard shot, landing and spinning 3 feet to your left? No answer, I thought so.

This is a forum, aside from Tom, where, well anyways......:)

Look up Justin Bower, I can take him anytime I'm in shape, played him, he's nothing, just a relaxed baseliner, no heart, nothing, I use a smaller racquet, 90 than he does and I don't MISS!

DownTheLineWith90
01-06-2013, 03:59 AM
Yet another argument on talk tennis...
Well for me, the motto is "shut up, think, and just play"
Why argue about what's the "correct" modern game?
Just go out there and do your thing. Simple.
Who cares about other people saying "volleying is so old school. no one does it anymore."
Just do it.

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 04:00 AM
My answers in red....


Simple, all you have to do is WATCH IT BEFORE SPEAKING.

Watch Fed pick up shots mid court, "No mans land", his "No Way" shots, by commentators and fans are always mid court or the net, so think what you will, hate debating emotional women who can't use logic.

I am not a woman but its nice to know you are showing your true colours with degrading comments such as that. You are looking for a debate, so keep it civil and intelligent at least.

It's incredible, you listen to commentators, they say things like "Well Djokavich is not good at the net", AMAZING, top guy, can't play all court.

Maybe you need a lesson in all court, all it means is that someone is as accomplished everywhere they play, a baseliner in not, so modern teachers "Choke Creativity" BIG TIME when they say "Oh, yea the game has changed, get back three feet behind the baseline, here's your 110 inch racket, I look good, get paid right"?

Wrong, fabrication.

Guarenteed, next great serve and volleyer, or if they speed up courts, you'll be like "Heh, we need to train the new way, all court", "We don't do mindless baseline anymore".

Key word there "IF". Right now the courts at the pro level are slow, thus baseline play and mid-court rules, not net play. Supports my statement from my earlier post, thanks.

I play with people like you on the courts, you have no idea how to deal with a short side spin shot, hard low left angled shot, no clue! I beat pro's girl, so don't talk unless you know what you are talking about, sick of fools who can't play trying to commentate my points that can help others, Tennis is in the MIND.

That's funny right there.

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 04:08 AM
By the way, you still have not answered my question as to where you've come to all these conclusion about coaches not teaching the right way and not being creative? Have you studied methods, taken on-court certification courses, watched multi-national coaches teach young juniors, traveled around training centres seeing first hand whats being taught etc?

sundaypunch
01-06-2013, 07:03 AM
By the way, you still have not answered my question as to where you've come to all these conclusion about coaches not teaching the right way and not being creative? Have you studied methods, taken on-court certification courses, watched multi-national coaches teach young juniors, traveled around training centres seeing first hand whats being taught etc?

Haven't you read Mick3391's posts in other threads? He was a child prodigy. He just came back to tennis after a 15-year absence and currently plays at a 6.0 level at age 38. Do you really think you should be questioning his ability?

5263
01-06-2013, 07:52 AM
You miss the entire point, I don't CARE what so called "Academics" and others theorize, if you can play at the net I'll kill you, simply as that. Don't train at mid-court, I'll kill you, and baseline is simplest of all!

So just because the game today is baseline doesn't mean it's right, you'll see next S&V who comes into the game, what are you going to do with your stats then?

What kind of game can avoid you killing them?

So I guess you enjoyed "the inner game of tennis" by Galloway?

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 07:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg

5263
01-06-2013, 08:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ6-6RbSEg

too funny, thanks for the link.
Sort of like in Stripes..."you touch my stuff..I will....."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPGq-N_6GM8

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 08:11 AM
Lighten up Francis

Ash_Smith
01-06-2013, 09:13 AM
I play with people like you on the courts, you have no idea how to deal with a short side spin shot, hard low left angled shot, no clue!

You've seen Balla hit right? Because, you know, he's pretty good! :D

Oh, and what about when you play people like me, who know exactly how to deal with a short sidespin shot or a "low left angled shot"?

5263
01-06-2013, 09:48 AM
You've seen Balla hit right? Because, you know, he's pretty good! :D

Oh, and what about when you play people like me, who know exactly how to deal with a short sidespin shot or a "low left angled shot"?
Ash,
this guy kills 5.5s, don't you get it?

Ash_Smith
01-06-2013, 09:51 AM
^^^ Cool - me too! Either this dude is Fabrice Santoro or he's delusional!

tennis_balla
01-06-2013, 10:00 AM
Ash, his 12 year old son will take you out as well, with a "drop shot barely over the net off your hard shot, landing and spinning 3 feet to your left."

Ash_Smith
01-06-2013, 10:08 AM
^^^yeah, i'm looking forward to that one. In fairness, if his kid can hit drop shots barely over the net off a baseline "trading ball" from a top level player then he's destined for the pro's! Or he's like one of those football (soccer to those over the pond!) skills guys, who can do all the keepie-uppies in the world but can't actually play football!

sundaypunch
01-06-2013, 12:01 PM
Do you guys realize that they recently legalized marijuana in Washington state?

tennis_balla
01-19-2013, 01:22 AM
Whats going on here, thread died and OP ran away!

rkelley
01-19-2013, 09:14 AM
I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

The general gist of Mick's post seems like "one should be able to volley." OK, I'll agree with that. But I don't think this is a modern/traditional game thing. When I was playing 3.5 (C) tournaments in N. California in the late 80's most players couldn't volley, or S&V - even in doubles.

When I started playing back in the age of wood racquets I hated volleying. I learned to volley because I had this huge serve (relative to my peers at the time) that would generate these weak returns that I was unable to use to my advantage because I was standing back at the baseline. So I learned. Eventally I figured out that I could beat people like your uncle just by going McEnroe on them. You didn't have to volley very well, you just had to go up to the net, stick your racquet out, and angle off the slowish, no pace balls. An overhead took care of the lobbing.

I'm older now but I play at a significantly higher level than I did when I was younger. I think Balla's comment is right on for today's game. When someone can stand on the baseline and using modern technique rip a 70 mph forehand dtl off a decent low and deep approach, it gets a bit daunting to keep coming in. You have to pick and choose much more wisely than in the past. I often go for a lot more on my approach then I used to - using modern technique - to mostly win the point with that shot as opposed to letting the volley win the point. I've also found that because I'm willing to hit big from mid court it sets up more traditional approaches when I go that route. I still get my head ripped off some times.

So my take is that modern tennis does not mean there's no mid-court or net game. But one has to pick and choose their spots a bit more than in the past.

rkelley
01-19-2013, 09:29 AM
Whats going on here, thread died and OP ran away!

Hey Balla, I'll take you on. I'll take Ash on too. You'll kill me. Understand? You'll both absolutely kill me!

Wait . . . that doesn't sound any where near as threatening.

:)

Ashley D
01-23-2013, 12:18 AM
hate debating emotional women who can't use logic.



Wow Mick, you're arrogant, narcissistic, uneducated AND a mysogenist.

You've now taken the mantle as the biggest dusch on TT. Congrats, you've earned it.

The person I truly feel sorry for is your son. :(

onehandbh
04-14-2013, 02:36 AM
Look up Justin Bower, I can take him anytime I'm in shape, played him, he's nothing, just a relaxed baseliner, no heart, nothing, I use a smaller racquet, 90 than he does and I don't MISS!

I assume this is the Justin Bower you are referring to?
http://avtennis.com/trainers/justinbower.php

Did you beat him in a set? a match? tournament?

You sound like you might be one of the highest level players on TW.
I'll actually be in your neck of the woods in the Seattle/Bellevue area in
early July. Let's meet up for some tennis!

tennis ratchet
04-14-2013, 04:19 AM
I assume this is the Justin Bower you are referring to?
http://avtennis.com/trainers/justinbower.php

Did you beat him in a set? a match? tournament?

You sound like you might be one of the highest level players on TW.
I'll actually be in your neck of the woods in the Seattle/Bellevue area in
early July. Let's meet up for some tennis!

i honestly don't understand why people feel the need to boast on the internet..a former atp pro was nice enough to play with the guy, and now according to this guy he is 'nothing'. i don't blame you for getting irritated.

onehandbh
04-14-2013, 05:31 AM
i honestly don't understand why people feel the need to boast on the internet..a former atp pro was nice enough to play with the guy, and now according to this guy he is 'nothing'. i don't blame you for getting irritated.

I'm not the least bit irritated. Just looking for good players to hit with
when I visit the Seattle/Bellevue area.

The Meat
04-14-2013, 05:34 AM
At the 4.5 level and below, you can play a very stamina based pushing style and win a majority of your matches. True story.

tennis ratchet
04-14-2013, 08:21 AM
I'm not the least bit irritated. Just looking for good players to hit with
when I visit the Seattle/Bellevue area.

oops sorry about that! the quote in your post just seemed so over the top.

HunterST
04-14-2013, 08:27 AM
What happens if two people who have read this thread play each other?

Relinquis
04-14-2013, 08:36 AM
What happens if two people who have read this thread play each other?

the first two minutes of this i think are a good idea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5zzgSaC70

onehandbh
04-14-2013, 09:00 AM
oops sorry about that! the quote in your post just seemed so over the top.

I visit the Pacific Northwest from time to time + I sometimes try to
meet up with other TW posters to play tennis.

People sometimes make all kinds of claims, but it's the internet, so I
take everything with block of salt.

btw, I once hit a single serve that had such an extreme awesomeness
quotient that I'm pretty sure most ATP pros would have struggled to
return it. It was a weird edge of the frame serve that traveled through
the air in a ~50mph speed over the net with about 4 feet of net
clearance. Once it landed, it just shot sideways about 5 feet to the right
and only about a foot off the ground. Once in a lifetime serve.
Can't touch that.

beernutz
04-14-2013, 09:18 AM
I don't think this thread will get as much attention as your "sissies" one,
but we'll see how it shakes out. Best of luck, though.

Great avatar picture. I actually saw them on that concert tour in Birmingham AL on May 29, 1978. Front row seats baby! Best concert I ever saw and I saw the Stones, Who, Allman Brothers, and the Dead in the 70s.

tennis_balla
04-14-2013, 09:29 AM
Having thought about "Tips" for some time, I believe I have the answer. Yes, you must be in shape, yes, you must practice non stop, but the answer is easy.

Look at all the advice solicited on this forum. Most people DON'T KNOW. Even the good players are not sure.

ALWAYS DO THE OPPOSITE! ALWAYS. Think! Guy practice the so called "Modern Game", that only means they can't handle mid-court or the net, they were TRAINED to dictact from the baseline.

Likewise, if you find, which is rare, a true SV learn baseline play.


Do you still believe this to be true Mick?

One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Who made dozu and toly gurus now and why wasn't I aware of this? This is the equivalent of getting an Oscar here at Talk Tennis. Hopefully, one day my time will come *sigh*

sureshs
04-14-2013, 09:31 AM
Do like what MR. Miogy said "YOUR BEST TENNIS IS NOT LEARNED BUT IS INSIDE YOU"


Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body,

I have no tennis inside me or in my mind.

tennis ratchet
04-14-2013, 09:37 AM
People sometimes make all kinds of claims, but it's the internet, so I take everything with block of salt.

true dat.

i followed the other thread but i never saw the quotes here and below, hilarious.

onehandbh
04-14-2013, 09:46 AM
Who made dozu and toly gurus now and why wasn't I aware of this? This is the equivalent of getting an Oscar here at Talk Tennis. Hopefully, one day my time will come *sigh*

I think the problem is that the tips you give to posters are too practical
and usable to improve their game.

I suggest using lots of words and technical terms sprinkled in your
posts:

You need to obfuscate the solution and bring tangential principals
that involve modern physics and angular momentum on a quantum
level. Gauss' Law is something most people are not taking into
consideration when hitting a tennis ball. Plus, swing weight 7, which
is based on the density and how magnetized the material in the
racquet head is at 12 o'clock makes a huge difference. There's no
point in recording yourself unless you use 3d cameras recording at
4000 fps. That's the only way to see whether you index finger moved
0.1mm at contact.

OR use a catch phrase that will solve all problems:

"Down and out" is the key to never losing in tennis. If your missing
the ball, swing down and out and you can hit it as hard or soft as
you want and your opponent will feel "down and out."

tennis_balla
04-14-2013, 10:16 AM
I think the problem is that the tips you give to posters are too practical
and usable to improve their game.

I suggest using lots of words and technical terms sprinkled in your
posts:

You need to obfuscate the solution and bring tangential principals
that involve modern physics and angular momentum on a quantum
level. Gauss' Law is something most people are not taking into
consideration when hitting a tennis ball. Plus, swing weight 7, which
is based on the density and how magnetized the material in the
racquet head is at 12 o'clock makes a huge difference. There's no
point in recording yourself unless you use 3d cameras recording at
4000 fps. That's the only way to see whether you index finger moved
0.1mm at contact.

OR use a catch phrase that will solve all problems:

"Down and out" is the key to never losing in tennis. If your missing
the ball, swing down and out and you can hit it as hard or soft as
you want and your opponent will feel "down and out."

Genius, pure genius.

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 12:46 PM
Actually you may be a little over the top, but I have to think there is some truth to what you are saying.

Waaaaay over the top. Once every couple of months I drink beer, then I put up a crazy post and totally embarrass myself.

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 01:13 PM
Modern game includes no mid-court or net play?
Wrong.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

I understand man, I just don't drink, so when I do everything comes out, like once every 3 months.

My view is still that baseliners, as great as they can be, miss out on a lot of tennis by staying away from mid court and the net. I'm not the only one who holds this view, many think the same way.

I see it all the time, I play hours upon hours each week, and see guys who look like killers from the baseline, totally fall apart when they are out of their groove, that is forced up short.

With slow courts not going away, I agree it's probably wise to focus more on baseline, but I see no problem in learning all aspects of tennis, who knows they may speed courts up again.

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 01:26 PM
i honestly don't understand why people feel the need to boast on the internet..a former atp pro was nice enough to play with the guy, and now according to this guy he is 'nothing'. i don't blame you for getting irritated.

It's called being drunk and stupid. I have all the respect in the world for Justin, I've stated on this forum he'd destroy me.

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 02:03 PM
You've seen Balla hit right? Because, you know, he's pretty good! :D

Oh, and what about when you play people like me, who know exactly how to deal with a short sidespin shot or a "low left angled shot"?

I understand most piling on me in a stupid post, but you? I thought you were like most men who once in awhile screw up and get drunk, didn't know you were a saint.

I'm TIRED of people questioning my abilities, as if I'm a liar. You of all people can rate someone in your profession, so as you know, now I'm not even into gear one, but no matter the pain I'm going to film myself, and be at your mercy to give me a rating.

Relinquis
04-14-2013, 02:22 PM
all court tennis works... as Haas showed us at Delray, IW and Miami. Federer has shown us this for over a decade.

Dimitrov displays this occasionally as well.

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 02:31 PM
all court tennis works... as Haas showed us at Delray, IW and Miami. Federer has shown us this for over a decade.

Dimitrov displays this occasionally as well.

And.....If they slow down courts, what then? That is really been my mantra since I've been here.

I read some great articles about how unfair, if you will, things have been for Fed. Here's a guy who worships Sampras, plays like him, then they slow down courts BIG TIME, giving huge advantage to baseliners. It's a testament to Fed that he could adapt. In the articles they were saying it's like training to play basketball, then all of a sudden raising the net by 2 feet, or putting the homerun line out 100 feet, it's changing the rules.

So in regards to my son, it's not complicated, perhaps I've complicated it, but we play enough to where I want him to be able to be adept at ALL PARTS of tennis. I remember being shocked when a commentator said about the then number one Djokovich, "He can't play at net". I mean I get criticized for echoing what experts say.

If they slow down courts, AND let's say my son knows mid court/net, won't he have a huge advantage?

So yea my points have not been communicated well, but that's all I'm saying. And despite my critics, I have SEEN IT. We have many more videos coming so you have to trust me until we see them, but again 28 year old guy, plays year round here, started younger than Mick, and Mick kicked his butt, the guy was so frustrated he looked over to his wife next to me and said basically "What do I do with this".

All I'm saying is we should know all aspects, that's all.

Relinquis
04-14-2013, 03:38 PM
all court means you can build points from the baseline, but you can also come in and close points out at the net.

check out the link from my current sig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDqnkLJ9BtM

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 03:50 PM
all court means you can build points from the baseline, but you can also come in and close points out at the net.

check out the link from my current sig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDqnkLJ9BtM

Of course, that's my entire point.

Definitions should be in order as language gets twisted. All court to ME simply means you CAN PLAY the same behind the baseline, mid court, or net.

My POINT is that most, and I've simply seen it over and over, and yea anecdotal evidence isn't proof, but most these days FOCUS SOLELY on the baseline, and ignore the other points.

So my question still stands, WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEARNING IT ALL?

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 04:17 PM
Watch this video, and more important listen to the commentary, tell me how they disagree with me in anyway. Incredible that experts can agree with me, yet learners here criticize what I say;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFRDYJjQKkY

Timbo's hopeless slice
04-14-2013, 04:50 PM
you don't seem to grasp the fundamental point that tennis academies teach all court tennis and leave it up to the players when they go out on the tour.

that's why someone like Juan Monaco can spend years at the Spanish academies and come out with a 1HBH and a S&V game. that's just how he plays.

It's also why Nadal and Ferrer, for example, have such beautiful volley technique on the rare occasions you get to see them use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFQu8fnAOck

Also, and I understand that beer is bad, look at the link in Tennis_Balla's signature and ask yourself if this guy really couldn't handle a spinning short ball? (yes, that's him in the foreground)

tennis ratchet
04-14-2013, 05:17 PM
So my question still stands, WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEARNING IT ALL?

i have a hard time keeping people straight on message boards but i've read alot of posts here stating this same thought, and i think they're all from you... i have to tell you i have no idea what you're talking about.

here on the east coast no one has stopped teaching how to volleys, how to hit an approach shot, how to handle a passing shot, low volley, any of it... i have a hard time believing that anyone woudl pay someone for lessons without teaching them this essential part of the game..

just about everyone i play with will take the net on a short ball.. a few s&v, but you have to have a big, big serve.

i don't know anyone who has their strategic mind blown by an opponent taking the net to hit a volley..

i gotta wonder about who youre playing with, that makes you think taking the net is revolutionary.. things must be a lot different where you are..

but good on you for manning up for those other posts anyway.

you don't seem to grasp the fundamental point that tennis academies teach all court tennis and leave it up to the players when they go out on the tour.)

yes

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 05:28 PM
i have a hard time keeping people straight on message boards but i've read alot of posts here stating this same thought, and i think they're all from you... i have to tell you i have no idea what you're talking about.

here on the east coast no one has stopped teaching how to volleys, how to hit an approach shot, how to handle a passing shot, low volley, any of it... i have a hard time believing that anyone woudl pay someone for lessons without teaching them this essential part of the game..

just about everyone i play with will take the net on a short ball.. a few s&v, but you have to have a big, big serve.

i don't know anyone who has their strategic mind blown by an opponent taking the net to hit a volley..

i gotta wonder about who youre playing with, that makes you think taking the net is revolutionary.. things must be a lot different where you are..

but good on you for manning up for those other posts anyway.



yes

You may want to keep more up. Tennis experts today will point out that slower courts=baseline play, I would think this is most basic, and you should not listen just to me, but all of the others on this forum who will agree with me.

I can't say "Oh, on the east side or the US they don't teach all", but it's clear from your responses that they don't if you understand what really they are teaching.

The bottom line, and it's logical, is that since courts have slowed down, today Wimbledon is slower than RS used to be, to only teach "Modern Game", I say yes, it's true that is what you should take to and learn at this time, but for the millionash time "WHY NOT learn it all"??

onehandbh
04-14-2013, 06:31 PM
Of course, that's my entire point.

Definitions should be in order as language gets twisted. All court to ME simply means you CAN PLAY the same behind the baseline, mid court, or net.

My POINT is that most, and I've simply seen it over and over, and yea anecdotal evidence isn't proof, but most these days FOCUS SOLELY on the baseline, and ignore the other points.

So my question still stands, WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEARNING IT ALL?

I actually agree with you. Although the pros today seemed to be able to
volley decently and can hit swinging volleys, for some reason, many of them
don't move in to cut the ball off after hitting an offensive groundstroke
that the opponent just barely gets back. The ball ends up floating back
deep and then the point is sort of reset again, but of course the opponent
is still on the defensive.

In the recent James blake / Tsonga match this happened time after time.
One of them would nail a groundstroke into the corner and the other
would barely get to it and float it back. Then, boom another groundstroke
into the other corner. Repeat. The problem is that sometimes the
defensive player is able to turn it around, reset, and go on the offensive.

Granted he was arguably the greatest volley ever, but few players today
can even come close to the volleying and front court ability of Edberg.
Nobody today can hit volleys as crisply or cut of angles the way he did.
His volleys were FIRM.

Passion4Tennis
04-14-2013, 07:50 PM
Great avatar picture. I actually saw them on that concert tour in Birmingham AL on May 29, 1978. Front row seats baby! Best concert I ever saw and I saw the Stones, Who, Allman Brothers, and the Dead in the 70s.

Yep, Waiting for Columbus is one of the best live rock albums in history. You saw some good bands, but I'll take Little Feat over any of them. I'm envious that you saw them in 78, buddy! That had to be an awesome concert. It's too bad that a lot of people don't even know who they are. They were a hell of a lot more talented than most bands, and you couldn't ask for a better front man than Lowell George.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mick.

Mick3391
04-14-2013, 07:57 PM
Yep, Waiting for Columbus is one of the best live rock albums in history. You saw some good bands, but I'll take Little Feat over any of them. I'm envious that you saw them in 78, buddy! That had to be an awesome concert. It's too bad that a lot of people don't even know who they are. They were a hell of a lot more talented than most bands, and you couldn't ask for a better front man than Lowell George.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mick.

No problem man, I screw up, have to face the consequences, I deserve it.