how late to start playing before it's too late

[luke15aw]

could a 14 or 15 year old with a tennis backround (once a week for life) pick up the the game seriously and within 3 or 4 years enjoy some success such as being ranked or plahying in college, or will the late start compared to other juniors put them at too great a disadvantage, no matter what they do from then on.

[SageOfDeath]

I think they could, but they would have to take lessons, drill hard, work hard and definately try out for their high school team. I mean playing for college isn't hard playing for D1 takes a hell of a lot of work but it could be done.

[theace21]

Would have to be an excellent athlete to make that type of progress...

[dennis10is]

Intensive lessons from an excellent coaching staff, lots of hard work from you, lots of support from the other players, meaning you need to have players to play against and beat you for you to make rapid progress. You not a lot of exposure to the game, so much depends on the tennis environment that you can get yourself into. Lastly, you probably have to be a good athlete to start with and pick it up quickly.

Lower level D1 is possible, higher level D1 would be damned difficult.

[SageOfDeath]

Would have to be an excellent athlete to make that type of progress...

right that too. Also takes a lot of conditioning.

[goober]

It depends on how much talent they have. My 12 year old niece has been playing 1-2 times a week for the last 8 years and goes to tennis camp every summer but she looks like a 2.5-3.0 still.

[smittysan89]

this is sort of what has happened to me, i have always watched tennis and just knew how to do the basic strokes and played occasionally, but i have always had football, baseball and basketball to play, now this year all i am playing is tennis. Not planning on playing college ball, but planning to be pretty good. I have been playing at least 5 days a week with a lesson 1-2 times a week as well, and taking camps and clinics too. High school season doesnt start till march, and truthfully alot of the players dont train this hard in the offseason. I have made huge huge improvements over the last 2 weeks and a coach helps out a ton. Last thursday i had a 3 hour lesson just on perfecting my bh. I also went to the Cincy tourney as i live in ohio, and have the tennis channel and have been watching as much tennis as i can. I am 6'4 197lbs, 16 years old junior in high school and have played football, baseball and basketball all my life so i know what its like to train and play hard every day all year long. If you have the work ethic and athletic ability it can be done i think. You just have to have the time to practice and play to get the experience to catch up with everyone else.

[Gary Britt]

Luke15aw, it would be easier if the person in question is a female. I think it could be done if a male, but tennis scholarships for males are a lot harder to come by than for a female. The reason for this is that there are more female tennis teams in D1, D2, & D3 schools than male tennis teams. This is a result of the way Title 9 has been interpreted by left wing judges and radical feminists to impose mandatory quotas. Many schools that used to have male tennis, male gymnastics, male wrestling, etc. no longer have such teams so that they can meet the quota of 50% female athletes at their schools.

My niece didn't start playing at all until around 13, and she never really took it that seriously and never had more than a handful of private lessons. Because she is about 6 feet tall and very strong (also more than a bit overweight at the time) she was able to play doubles for her high school team. She started getting serious about her tennis about 2 years ago, after she was out of high school. A year ago she was given a tennis scholarship to a D3 school. The University of Texas At Tyler. She did pretty good in her freshman year. She had about a .500 winning percentage playing line 3 or 4 singles. At the end of the season she was picked as the most improved on her team.

It can definitely be done as a female. I think, if you are talented enough and dedicated enough, you could do it as a male. Like others said however, D1 tennis scholarships are really tough to get. Full boat D1 tennis scholarships are even more tough to get. D2 and D3 at least isn't out of the question.

Gary Britt

[Gary Britt]

I have been playing at least 5 days a week with a lesson 1-2 times a week as well, and taking camps and clinics too. High school season doesnt start till march, and truthfully alot of the players dont train this hard in the offseason. I have made huge huge improvements over the last 2 weeks and a coach helps out a ton. ...........I am 6'4 197lbs, 16 years old junior in high school and have played football, baseball and basketball all my life so i know what its like to train and play hard every day all year long. If you have the work ethic and athletic ability it can be done i think. You just have to have the time to practice and play to get the experience to catch up with everyone else.

Good luck Smitty, with your physical gifts and work ethic you definitely have a shot at some kind of college ball. You will definitely become a more than excellent player if you keep it up.

Gary Britt

[aj_m2009]

could a 14 or 15 year old with a tennis backround (once a week for life) pick up the the game seriously and within 3 or 4 years enjoy some success such as being ranked or plahying in college, or will the late start compared to other juniors put them at too great a disadvantage, no matter what they do from then on.

Dunno if this has been said yet, but Im pretty sure this was what Clarisa Fernandez did (the girl who lost to Venus in the semis of the '02 RG). Im not sure how much she practiced before she started to play seriously (at 15) tho. And shes not exactly a top player but she hasnt had too bad a career.:)

Clarisa Fernandez WTA Profile (http://www.wtatour.com/players/playerprofiles/PlayerBio.asp?ID=&EntityID=1&CustomerID=0&OrderID=0&ReturnURL=/&PlayerID=60285)

[FREDDY]

I AM 15. i started last year and its definitely the work you put into it and MONEY AS WELL if its in you you'll know it if you think it is but you play like crap make new friends that dont lie to you but good luck with it

[shsman2091]

I agree, money has ALOT to do with it. I mean I've done research on many tennis academies, particularly in Florida, and a lot of them cost above $25,000. And of course if one ones to be really successful, like even make it on the tour, you have to join some academy. But if you just want to play college ball, I think playing alteast 5 days a week, about two hours a day with a hitting partner or a coach, with some fitness training during weekends, should be plenty, if not more than enough. I'm basically on the same path as you Smitty, but I've reserved a spot in a tennis academy and I'll be starting there next June. Good luck to you man (not that you need it).

[GOOOOOGA]

could a 14 or 15 year old with a tennis backround (once a week for life) pick up the the game seriously and within 3 or 4 years enjoy some success such as being ranked or plahying in college, or will the late start compared to other juniors put them at too great a disadvantage, no matter what they do from then on.

i heard that that the #1 player in the midatlantic in Boys 18 started when he was around 13. it is possible, but its alot tougher. you have to pretty much dedicate all your time to it. unless ur amazingly athletic, tennis will be your only sport. it's not hard to get a regional ranking. if you mean a high one, then yes, thats an automatic tennis 6 days a week, 3-4 hrs a day.

the late start wud put them at a disadvantage, but only minimally. the disadv. wud be that they arn't as match tough naturally as their opponents, who've been playing for 5 or 6 more years.

[dennis10is]

As an ex-university professor who has served on the university's NCAA compliance committee, and as a avid university athletics fan, and supporter of university athletics, your view that Title IX is supported by left wing judges and radical feminists is extreme. It is so easy to take the easy way out and blame everything on title IX but many universities do not support men's sports because they don't make money or build prestige, they rather that the money go to traditional big time sports like football, basketball so that they can build school spirit and reputation. I have friends who are ADs and they would love to just kill useless sports like tennis, swimming, etc.. and spend more money what a few sport that they can have a chance of winning.

And yes, I attend every football game I can in the fall, and men's basketball in the spring. That doesn't stop me from attending women's vball or both men's and women's soccer. I wish I can see men's volleyball but the number of men's volleyball team nation wide is decreasing. The football team's budget at the university is equal to the ENTIRE budget for the rest of the men's sports.

Universities do not have unlimited budget, when they cancel a men's sport, do not be so sure that that money went to a women's sport, more likely most of it went to a men's program. Of course, they are not lying when they say, of the money went to women's sport, but they do not say, just 20 percent of it, the rest went to football. After all, we need all of those guys to have scholarship, a new gym that only the football team can use, or new stadium, etc...

[shindemac]

It's never too late to start. Just play 6 hours a day seven days a week. 365 days a year! You should catch up in no time.

[Brego]

How hard is it to play in college? I will have been playing tennis for two years by the time I go to college, but for the last year I've played several hours a day almost every day. Is that enough, or are college players really good? I don't plan to be a pro tennis player, but I'd like to play in college if I can.

[goober]

How hard is it to play in college? I will have been playing tennis for two years by the time I go to college, but for the last year I've played several hours a day almost every day. Is that enough, or are college players really good? I don't plan to be a pro tennis player, but I'd like to play in college if I can.

Depends on what college and a what level. You can go from 4.5 level players at small colleges in NAIA and D2 and D3 to 6-6.5 level players at the highest levels of D1.

[theace21]

I am sure some colleges have tennis programs, and they play at a very poor level. Same with Junior colleges...Any major college is going to have a strong IM program and college level tennis classes that will keep you playing after high school...

[Gary Britt]

As an ex-university professor That makes all your comments suspect on political policy matters, in that you aren't likely unbiased politically - given the fact of the strong hard left wing bias in University faculty in general. University professors, as regards politics, has become a place where idiocy and mandated politically correct newspeak thrives, and that idiocy (can you say Ward Churchill) is in only one direction, Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Anti-caucasian male, increasingly anti-semitic, and pro g a y-everything. Maybe you are the one out of 10 or one out of twenty who's political policy beliefs are more mainstreet USA.

your view that Title IX is supported by left wing judges and radical feminists is extreme. It is so easy to take the easy way out and blame everything on title IX but many universities do not support men's sports because they don't make money or build prestige

Those that feel that way feel even stronger that those same sports populated by women have no prestige and don't make money, but the Title IX quota system actually requires them to add these sports for women and cut them for men, and that is exactly what they have done. Schools that used to have male tennis, gymnastics, swimming, and you name it, have cut out all of those male sports while maintaining or creating women's sports in those areas and then begging women to fill the teams, so they can meet their title IX quotas.

Of course they aren't going to cut football. Football and basketball pays for everything, sportswise, in the big schools. It pays for all those women's sports and used to pay for all those other male sports, but because of title IX's quotas the only way the schools could meet these unconstitutional quotas was to discriminate against men, which they did and continue to do. They sure as heck aren't going to cut the money out of the football and basketball geese that lay all the golden eggs. Nor should they be required to so do. Title IX crazies allow no room for there being more men than women wishing to participate in organized college athletics. The Title IX crazies have mandated their definition of equality by decreasing the percentage of participation of males who want to participate below the percentage of females who want to participate. Title IX crazies mandate that school alumni cannot voluntarily give money to the football or basketball programs in order to free up University money to fund these other male minor sports that have been done away with by Title IX. Alumni who wanted to support a male tennis team aren't allowed to so do because of Title IX. Title IX has been interpreted by the crazies to effectively forbid this kind of funding of a male sport.

I have friends who are ADs and they would love to just kill useless sports like tennis, swimming, etc.. and spend more money what a few sport that they can have a chance of winning.
The reason for that is because of Title IX and its mandated shortages of available funds for minor male sports. That and the fact that AD's work in the highly politically correct far left wing University establishment, and if they fail to tow the politically correct line in their speech, whether public or private, they risk losing their jobs at the hands of the egghead crazies.

I wish I can see men's volleyball but the number of men's volleyball teams nation wide is decreasing.

Thanks to the effects of Title IX, as written and interpreted by the crazies.


The football team's budget at the university is equal to the ENTIRE budget for the rest of the men's sports.

As it likely should be. Its the kind of thing that market forces should determine, and not eggheads and crazies.

Universities do not have unlimited budget, when they cancel a men's sport, do not be so sure that that money went to a women's sport, more likely most of it went to a men's program.

Bu l l sh*t misdirection. Title IX has been interpreted by the crazies to require a full 50% of all money from all sources, not just university money but money contributed from football and basketball fan alumni, go to women's sports. That quota system is THE REASON that men's tennis, swimming, gymnastics, and volleyball, etc. are disappearing from University life. This quota system is mandated irrespective of whether there are more men who wish to participate in college sports than women, which of course there are.


After all, we need all of those guys to have scholarship, a new gym that only the football team can use, or new stadium, etc...

Yes we know the crazies and eggheads hate football. They'd love to kill it any way they possibly could. It just isn't g a y enough for them.

Gary Britt

[Koaske]

It's never too late to start. Just play 6 hours a day seven days a week. 365 days a year! You should catch up in no time.

I started when I was 14 yrs and played played pretty much like that at the start(expect only ~180 days a year, we do have winter here :( ). However , I don't suggest playing that much when the player gets more high-level , where you hit power-strokes and run a lot. It'll get the player injured sooner or later.

[luke15aw]

I've been running a lot up to this point, so I'm in pretty excellent fitness. Money isn't really a problem, but my parents would never ever let me go to tennis academy, I guess I just want to play a lot and well. Do college tennis programs let walk ons come in and train with the team? how does that all work, do schools have jv's?

[dennis10is]

That makes all your comments suspect on political policy matters, in that you aren't likely unbiased politically - given the fact of the strong hard left wing bias in University faculty in general. University professors, as regards politics, has become a place where idiocy and mandated politically correct newspeak thrives, and that idiocy (can you say Ward Churchill) is in only one direction, Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Anti-caucasian male, increasingly anti-semitic, and pro g a y-everything. Maybe you are the one out of 10 or one out of twenty who's political policy beliefs are more mainstreet USA.


Yes we know the crazies and eggheads hate football. They'd love to kill it any way they possibly could. It just isn't g a y enough for them.

Gary Britt


Dude, take a chill pill. Let's not discuss this anymore because there is no point since you are quite happy with your beliefs. I think we have both expressed our views here sufficiently on this matter and the readers of our posts can decide for themselves what to make of Title IX.

I'm surprised you play tennis juding from your comments. As for me, my football, wrestling friends thought tennis players were sissies, those girlie-boys who weren't men enough to play real sports like football, wrestling, sports were men can come into close physical contact with other men, so that we can feel how manly and virile we all are. Some thought I was G A Y because I played tennis and took dance (ballet, modern, jazz). They were confident enough in their orientation so they were still my friends. It all stopped when they saw how hot my girlfriend was. BTW, dance was the most difficult physical activity that I have every done and the most brutal. I can still play tennis and other sports but I would be hospitalized if I tried to dance now. Also, dance made me a much better tennis player.

Juding from your use of G A Y ness in your comments, was this an issue for you? You don't have to answer this post.

[x Southpaw x]

Huh? Tennis is g a y? What? Huh? How? When? Why?

People get injured in tennis. You ain't going to get far in tennis without being physically fit. You ain't going to get far in tennis without being strategic either. It's nothing close to ballet... I don't understand how a single person on Earth can think tennis is g a y.

[panatta]

I heard a tv commentator saying that german champion Michael Stich started play tennis at 14. But such champions don't born every day..

[Indiantwist]

I dont think it is even an issue at all. My friend picked up tennis at 25 (he at the best watched tennis earlier). Today he is a Strong 4.5. I can easily bet that he will be a 5.0 pretty soon. He plays regularly (about twice a week) but thats about it.

I am assuming that college players are around 5.0-6.0. If a guy at 25 (now he is 28+) can do it iam sure that a kid who is 14-16 old can easily do it.

[Gary Britt]

Huh? Tennis is g a y? What? Huh? How? When? Why?

People get injured in tennis. You ain't going to get far in tennis without being physically fit. You ain't going to get far in tennis without being strategic either. It's nothing close to ballet... I don't understand how a single person on Earth can think tennis is g a y.

No it isn't g a y. Many years ago (in the 1920's and 1930's I believe) it got that reputation probably because the greatest champion of the time, Bill Tilden, was a g a y sexual predator and pedophile. I don't think that reputation has stuck with tennis since the 60's.

Gary Britt

[Gary Britt]

Dude, take a chill pill. Let's not discuss this anymore because there is no point since you are quite happy with your beliefs. I think we have both expressed our views here sufficiently on this matter and the readers of our posts can decide for themselves what to make of Title IX.

And you with yours. You should have stopped here rather than go on with all the BS about proving your "manhood", which wasn't under question but somehow you seem to feel threatened. Not sure why.

You clearly have some ridiculous stereotypes built in your mind. You are apparently so conditioned to the far left political correctness that someone who merely mentions the word g a y, without offering any value judgment or critique of the word or its implications, must be immediately silenced through threats of character assassination or any other means at the disposal of the far left speech and thought police.

The far left, and that means most university professors and former university professors, believe in diversity, just so its not diversity of thought and expression that deviates from the far left wing agenda. That's why its fine for professors like Ward Churchill to call all the dead in Twin Towers, little Eichmans, blame 9/11 on America and the Jews, and still have a job. That's why if a student at University of Michigan who is cornered by a radical g a y demonstrator who demands to know why the up till then silent passer-by does not support their cause and he replies to the direct question in low and civil voice, pursuant to his 1st amendment rights with regard to speech and religion, that he believes h o m osexuality is morally wrong, that such a student would be forced to apologize in the school newspaper and do other acts of penance for daring to express a thought not approved by the far left wing crowd, in order to be allowed to receive his diploma for which he had worked 4 years.

If Ward Churchill had done something really offensive (to the University admin crowd) like praising Ronald Reagan or Bush II, he would have been out on his a s s faster than a group of professors could open a bottle of medium priced wine, dig into the brie, and discuss the latest issue of the Communist Worker's Daily.


those girlie-boys who weren't men enough to play real sports like football, wrestling, sports were men can come into close physical contact with other men, so that we can feel how manly and virile we all are.

Stop projecting your insecurities and h o m oerotic fantasies on to others. Try to open your mind to thoughts and points of view different from your own. In other words, stop being a member of the far left wing thought police, try to get over your bigoted stereotypes, and develop a sense of humor.


Gary Britt

[GuyClinch]

Dude, take a chill pill. Let's not discuss this anymore because there is no point since you are quite happy with your beliefs. I think we have both expressed our views here sufficiently on this matter and the readers of our posts can decide for themselves what to make of Title IX.

Way to duck out of the argument. I would have expected more from a former college professor. Title IX screwed men over. Maybe your ducking out because you don't have an argument. I don't know.

One basic aspsects of title IX with regards to sports -
I. "proportionality" test.. The amount of female athletes involved in athletics MUST match the POPULATION of the students to be in compliance. For example Ithaca has 55% of it's population as women so that means 55% of the athletes involved in sports must be women.

If that doesn't strike you as moronic and unfair I don't know what does. It's an example of "good ideas" gone awry. Sure we want women to play more sports but should we base funding assuming that there is equal interest in sports? What if there isn't equal interest?

To get INTO compliance these programs CUT the male programs. Things like wrestling and such were gone. It wasn't done to "save money" but to to fit title IX. Yes ADs want to save money all the time. But claiming that cutting "wrestling" was merely a cost saving tool is indeed misdirection like the other poster said. Either you don't understand the rule or your lying about it.

Shouldn't we find out how many people want to participate and at least ALLOW college to basis their funding on those figures? Heck if MORE women wanted to be involved in college athletics then men then fund them more!

And it's not just college sports that get hurt by this kind of thinking. It's quite easy to imagine that say the music department could get hurt with regards to women with such funding principles.


Pete

[shsman2091]

five of the 15 students from my high school varsity tennis team played on the football team during fall, and two played on the basketball team during winter. If tennis was a sport for "girlie men", why the hell are they playing tennis?!?!?!

[Gary Britt]

five of the 15 students from my high school varsity tennis team played on the football team during fall, and two played on the basketball team during winter. If tennis was a sport for "girlie men", why the hell are they playing tennis?!?!?!

I don't think the old ex-professor really thinks tennis is a sport for girlie men. I think he was just trying to bait me into a defense of my manhood, because his bigoted stereotypes of people with a conservative point of view does not allow him to conceive of a person who is secure in their sexuality, of normal or higher intelligence, and capable of recognizing the ex-professor's obvious attempts to divert the discussion from Title IX, where he has no agruments left, to an implied character attack upon the person whose thoughts did not agree with his far left wing closed minded point of view.

Its fairly typical behavior for the self-important and undeservedly smug members of the pseudo intelligentsia of academic life.

I'm afraid the old ex-professor's world view is that any person who does not immediately accept the holy grail of far left dogma, can only be a beer swilling, Dukes of Hazard/WWE watching, low IQ heretic to the liberal *faith*. All evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

Gary

[smittysan89]

I agree, money has ALOT to do with it. I mean I've done research on many tennis academies, particularly in Florida, and a lot of them cost above $25,000. And of course if one ones to be really successful, like even make it on the tour, you have to join some academy. But if you just want to play college ball, I think playing alteast 5 days a week, about two hours a day with a hitting partner or a coach, with some fitness training during weekends, should be plenty, if not more than enough. I'm basically on the same path as you Smitty, but I've reserved a spot in a tennis academy and I'll be starting there next June. Good luck to you man (not that you need it).

Yes, money does have some what to do with it, if you can get private lessons and attend clinics and camps, academies etc they help a ton. Offseason is really key like I said before if you are starting late. I am thinking of joining the local tennis club just because it would be worth it to be able to play indoors and out whenever i want and camps and etc are alot cheaper.

[luke15aw]

i think I'll take lessons off season ands play for school in season. Thanks for feedback

[Camilio Pascual]

You clearly have some ridiculous stereotypes built in your mind.
The far left, and that means most university professors and former university professors, believe in diversity, just so its not diversity of thought and expression that deviates from the far left wing agenda. That's why its fine for professors like Ward Churchill to call all the dead in Twin Towers, little Eichmans, blame 9/11 on America and the Jews, and still have a job.

Gary, you may have a ridiculous stereotype in your mind, too. If what you say is true, you should be able to name so many more Ward Churchills that the list would run into the thousands. You can't because what you say is not true. I just retired from Ohio State, I've been there since 1969 except for a break in the military. I've known and know approximately 700 people who either were becoming or are now faculty members. Your stereotype may fit about 30 of them, tops. And most of them are commendable, productive people. Gary, I like & respect you and your posts, but I am very qualified to comment on this subject and what you say is just not true.

As far as Title IX goes, I think you are very angry about it. So am I and I am with you on that. The provision to fund by the % of student body is capricious and wrong headed. I understand that an innocent intent of the wording by some was to ensure that universities didn't discourage women from participating if the wording said that funding would be done by the level of voluntary participation, which is what I think it should be. If you are suggesting that there was somewthing of an anti-men agenda, I think you are right. It is blatantly unfair and sexist to deny a student funding for sports because of their sex, something which Title IX was supposed to correct. What you are overlooking is that college faculty didn't vote this into law, our legislators did. Apparently, their staffs or they were too sloppy or inattentive to carefully consider the ramifications of the wording.

[smittysan89]

yeah thats what i am doing, during the season its mandatory every week day practice so i should be fine there, but i think you should do more than just lessons. You need to play after lessons so you can apply what you learned.

[Bungalo Bill]

Luke15aw, it would be easier if the person in question is a female. I think it could be done if a male, but tennis scholarships for males are a lot harder to come by than for a female.

That is for sure. Thanks to title nine, here is a quote from an article I read awhile back.

"The fallout has hit men's sports hard. As of a 2001 General Accounting Office audit, in the years since 1972, over 170 men's wrestling programs, 80 men's tennis teams, 70 men's gymnastics teams, and 45 men's track teams have been eliminated. At the same time, women's sports programs increased nine-fold."


Full article here http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200504060759.asp

[x Southpaw x]

could a 14 or 15 year old with a tennis backround (once a week for life) pick up the the game seriously and within 3 or 4 years enjoy some success such as being ranked or plahying in college, or will the late start compared to other juniors put them at too great a disadvantage, no matter what they do from then on.
I'll just answer this simply... it's never too late to pick up the game seriously until the day you just stand there and watch a normal groundstroke fly past you without even budging those aged legs of yours.

[shsman2091]

yeah thats what i am doing, during the season its mandatory every week day practice so i should be fine there, but i think you should do more than just lessons. You need to play after lessons so you can apply what you learned.

Lessons are good if you want to play D3 or D2 college tennis, however if you want to play D1 and hopefully make, lets say top 50, or become a highly certified coach (perhaps even start your own academy), and possibly even join the tour, a tennis academy is better and more affordable. For example, here in NY, in most clubs including mine, a half-hour lesson costs $50. Where as in one of the tennis academies of I researched, 5 days a week at two hours a day coaching costs $250 a week (plus another $500 a month for boarding). But it all depends on your goals, and I wish both of you (smitty and luke) the best of luck.

[RiosTheGenius]

I'm sorry but, I don't think anyone who picks up a racquet for the first time at age 15 can do much out there by the time they're in college.

[FiveO]

That is for sure. Thanks to title nine, here is a quote from an article I read awhile back.

"The fallout has hit men's sports hard. As of a 2001 General Accounting Office audit, in the years since 1972, over 170 men's wrestling programs, 80 men's tennis teams, 70 men's gymnastics teams, and 45 men's track teams have been eliminated. At the same time, women's sports programs increased nine-fold."

Very true about Title IX. In addition, more appropriately subtraction, tennis scholarships are meted out with a much more international flavor than they were in the '70's and '80's, even at smaller schools. A kid I worked with from Argentina got a full ride to Arkansas. Less to go around for American juniors and high schoolers.

As far as starting late, I think Stan Smith started playing at a later age, something like 12 or 13. I couldn't find any documentation but that's my memory of it. Maybe one of our tennis scholars knows.

[x Southpaw x]

I'm sorry but, I don't think anyone who picks up a racquet for the first time at age 15 can do much out there by the time they're in college.
Don't be pessimistic. Had a rich friend who picked up tennis late... he isn't obsessed with it, but he's mad rich and he afforded some internationally known coach or something from Europe. Within 3 months, he qualified for competitive high school varsity. After another 12 months, of training together with fellow varsity players(who are really good) and taking part in inter-school tournaments, he was good enough to beat a division1 college player from UCLA. I thought he was really interested in tennis when he told me he went for summer camps for college players during our June holidays, but... he just dropped tennis a few months ago because I think he's bored of it. He's entering college now and I think he prefers to spend his time drinking. -shrug-

[RiosTheGenius]

that's very impresive. but you 've got to admit that it's an exception. not imposible though.

[Camilio Pascual]

That is for sure. Thanks to title nine, here is a quote from an article I read awhile back.

"The fallout has hit men's sports hard. As of a 2001 General Accounting Office audit, in the years since 1972, over 170 men's wrestling programs, 80 men's tennis teams, 70 men's gymnastics teams, and 45 men's track teams have been eliminated. At the same time, women's sports programs increased nine-fold."

Very nice quote and reference, BB. That the women's sports programs have increased so much is truly great and makes Title IX a worthwhile effort.
Now, if they would just change the wording to fund by participation level...

[samdwaney1]

if you are naturally sporty and want to work your ass off it can definitely be done

[x Southpaw x]

that's very impresive. but you 've got to admit that it's an exception. not imposible though.
The main key to improving is to always be among the weakest to middle of your playing circle. How rich you are speeds up that improving rate.

So for any ordinary guy... take up some coaching for a headstart... the better the coaching the better your start. Group up with some players better than you, work up to become better or as good as them. Then leave or don't play them as often, group up with yet better players, work hard to become as good as them. Soon you'll find these playing circles rarer and that's where tournaments come in. Plays lots of them and work hard to become among the best... then go for state... then nationals... then...

Well... you really need the mindset that you want to be top level.

[shsman2091]

The main key to improving is to always be among the weakest to middle of your playing circle. How rich you are speeds up that improving rate.

So for any ordinary guy... take up some coaching for a headstart... the better the coaching the better your start. Group up with some players better than you, work up to become better or as good as them. Then leave or don't play them as often, group up with yet better players, work hard to become as good as them. Soon you'll find these playing circles rarer and that's where tournaments come in. Plays lots of them and work hard to become among the best... then go for state... then nationals... then...

Well... you really need the mindset that you want to be top level.


Very true, and a great strategy. However, for many of us, we will also have to make sacrafices when it comes to academics. I'm currently ranked #2 in my class of 350 students, with an average of 104.111, and my parents consider my goals in tennis suicide. So it was pretty tough convincing them to reserve a spot for me in an academy for next summer, and well, they still think I'm making the worst decision in my life. Because there is a tennis league for juniors in my area, where I can put your strategy up into use, by playing against higher level players, however, the league only meets on Fridays, and even if I do play indoor tennis during offseason the rest of the days, I'll only be able to improve my game so much alone, thus its not worth wasting your academics. Not unless you go into a tennis academy for full-time training, unless you just want tennis to be just an extracurricular activity that will perhaps boost your chances into a good university, by playing in D3 or D2.

[Bungalo Bill]

Very nice quote and reference, BB. That the women's sports programs have increased so much is truly great and makes Title IX a worthwhile effort.
Now, if they would just change the wording to fund by participation level...

I dont want to give the impression that I am pleased with how Title IX has been executed and used by colleges. I am not. I am against Title IX.

I think Title IX's purpose has been abused and needs to be revisited and rewritten. I am not a legal person but that is how I see it.

I think it is very unfair that a womens sport is allowed to succeed and a mens sport is not solely because of funding and the fear of a college being sued. I think things have swung again out of balance.

I want American Men's Tennis to be fully supported. Plus, as FiveO indicated the program is getting hit even harder as foreigners are now able to compete and get the same scholarships American men are trying to lock in.

This makes is doubly difficult to get into a good tennis program at the university level.

I think it needs to be amended.

[texcoug]

Don't forget Mats Wilander (one of my favorites). He started in his teens.

[Gary Britt]

Gary, you may have a ridiculous stereotype in your mind, too.


It depends on which stereotype in particular of the many that I spout for literary effect you have in mind. It might be one that's spot on as far as I'm concerned.


If what you say is true, you should be able to name so many more Ward Churchills that the list would run into the thousands.

Why? most professors just support the Ward Churchills behind the scenes under the false guise of tenure arguments and free speech rants. Some might support him by saying they disagree with what he says, but he shouldn't be fired for it. That's support if you ask me. That's also approval of the message. Tenure is a concept that should be outlawed everywhere. Professors should be hired and fired on the same basis as all the rest of us working stiffs.


I just retired from Ohio State, I've been there since 1969 except for a break in the military. I've known and know approximately 700 people who either were becoming or are now faculty members. Your stereotype may fit about 30 of them, tops.

That's your opinion, without knowing your perspective its hard to say whether I would agree or not. Dan Rather has always espoused that the MSM is unbiased in political matters, all while giving money at democratic fund raisers and promoting "fake but accurate" stories. I believe Danny really believes he isn't biased. The problem is he has lost all recognition of where the middle is in fact so he is incapable of determining whether things are being done down the middle or not. Same thing could be true for your evaluation of these professors.

What percentage of these 700 professors are as conservative as I appear to be? What percentage are as conservative as Ronald Reagan? What percentage are as liberal or more liberal than Ted Kennedy? What percentage voted democratic in each of the last 2, 3, or 4 presidential elections? How many would support a student's right to express the opinion that h o m o sexuality is morally wrong or oppose any of the other liberal sacred cows? You know the story I gave about the University of Michigan student forced to publically apologize and do other works of penance for merely saying in response to a direct question that he believed h o m osexuality was morally wrong is a TRUE story. There are MANY such stories of political correctness on University Campuses.


And most of them are commendable, productive people.

I hadn't questioned this. I might question it with regard to certain specific individuals, but we can save that for another day.

Gary, I like & respect you and your posts, but I am very qualified to comment on this subject and what you say is just not true.

Thanks and that is a possibility. I'm just going from reports from the news media combined with my own "unique" (grin) analysis. Remember I only wandered off into the liberal professor rant because dennis10s stated he knew all about Title IX because he was an ex-professor and so we should take his analysis of things as being wonderful for gospel (more or less paraphrasing his statement here).

As far as Title IX goes, I think you are very angry about it.

I don't know if very angry is the right term. I'm passionate about it. I'm passionate about all things politic. I certainly oppose its implementation. I'm more passionate about politically correct liberal thought police in life and on campuses in general. I think Title IX was a laudable idea run amuck with a quite faulty implementation.

So am I and I am with you on that. The provision to fund by the % of student body is capricious and wrong headed...... If you are suggesting that there was somewthing of an anti-men agenda, I think you are right. It is blatantly unfair and sexist to deny a student funding for sports because of their sex, something which Title IX was supposed to correct.

Well there's your mi dwestern good sense in action!!!! (smile). I do think there are a few more things wrong with how Title IX has been implemented than just the percentage of participation issue. I think that if alumni want to donate money designated for a particular purpose, such as football, basketball, women's volleyball, men's tennis, whatever, that such money should be usable by the University for those purposes and that it should NOT count in any way in any analysis of Title IX compliance. Right now it does, which means effectively that a University can't accept a pool of money raised by parents of boys from alumni for the sole purpose of funding a men's tennis team or the men's football team, because to accept it would cause the University to become out of compliance with the way Title IX has been implemented. I think this is another crucial element in the elimination of men's minor sports from the USA universities and colleges.

What you are overlooking is that college faculty didn't vote this into law, our legislators did. Apparently, their staffs or they were too sloppy or inattentive to carefully consider the ramifications of the wording.

I understand. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. My discussion of Title IX and professors was only intended to relate to the circumstances of this one ex-professor claiming he was on the university committee overseeing Title IX compliance and that we could trust him to believe that all these men's sports disappearing didn't have anything to do with Title IX.

I believe we agree more than we disagree on this, and I hope my hyperbole for literary and sometimes inflammatory effect (wink) didn't obfuscate things too much.

Gary

[luke15aw]

parents would never let me live at a tennis academy full time but i could probobly get to one during the summers, which would be pretty sick.

[Mahboob Khan]

Good question.

As compared to my other tennis friends, I started quite late (late twenties) but through sustained hard work I overtook them all, I beat them all and sent them to their premature retirement! I am 55+!

If a person has used his earlier years (prior to 14-15) playing other sports, developing coordination, ABC of movement, and athletic ability, starting around 13-15 could be blessing in disguise because when you are playing tennis players tend to neglect these important attributes! And then from this point on it's your commitment, dedication, determination, taking quality lessons, quality practices, quality tournament matches, and above all quality mental framework toward tennis. If you are athletic and you start around 14 years of age, and by 20 if you could clock around 10,000 to 12,000 hours of tennis practices/matches, you could be top 50 ATP player around the age of 24! I mean it is possible!

But if you are playing for pure fun, then you can even start playing tennis at the age of 100 (if you live that long without tennis that is)!

[shsman2091]

you could clock around 10,000 to 12,000 hours of tennis practices/matches, you could be top 50 ATP player around the age of 24! I mean it is possible!

It absolutely is, if you devote your life to tennis, and basically ignore your academics. But is it possible for someone who goes to regular school to maintain this devotion for tennis, and like you said, clock around 10 to 12 thousand hours of tennis practices/matches? I don't think so, for this reason, to pursue tennis at such an age with the state of mind that you will make it even top 200 on tour is very risky. You have to discard of your academics, and then go all out in a tennis academy, then you either make it, or you don't, but even then, you may be able to become a certified coach and make a decent living for yourself.

[dennis10is]

Gary,

Wow! I said let's end this. You are reading a lot into my note, oh well, this is clearly something that gets under your skin and I am now well aware of how many things you are "anti". If you don't like academia in general that's your choice, it is too radical, too liberal, too hypocritical, whatever else you want to say. No one is stopping you from having those views. I'm not.


Academics as a group are not interested in athletics, Title IX is something the NCAA and the Administrative types on campus deal with. I was very interested in it while I was a professor because I happen to support athletics, a minority view among the faculty. Even so, professors are token member of such committees, we are kept informed but the admin makes the decisions. The Faculty senate lets them because frankly, the Faculty senate doesn't care. What the Faculty would probably vote for, if it were up to them is to return the American University system back to its roots, the European system, where athletics are completely separated from academics. Those European club teams are quite effective if they put their minds to it, e.g., soccer. Not going to happen of course.

Nothing will be accomplished if we continue with this.

If it makes you feel better, I lost. You won. Let's talk about tennis.

[Gary Britt]

Gary,

Nothing will be accomplished if we continue with this.

If it makes you feel better, I lost. You won. Let's talk about tennis.

A little childish with the if it makes you feel better crap. There is no winner or loser. You stated your opinion, and I stated mine. Its not something that has winners or losers. You think Title IX doesn't have anything to do with men's minor sports disappearing from University/College life, and I and others think it has everything to do with it.

From your point of view I'm "anti a lot of things", and from my point of view I'm "pro" equality and fairness for men with regard to this particular issue, and I'm "pro" real diversity of thought and action among students and professors in general. Its only "anti" to you because what I'm for you may not support.

I agree we have each had our say and as between ourselves can get back to tennis other than Title IX. Others, however may wish to continue to comment. They already have, and those discussions should play out normally in my opinion. Title IX's elimination of a huge number of men's tennis programs at colleges and universities is a Tennis discussion.

Gary

[smittysan89]

Good question.

As compared to my other tennis friends, I started quite late (late twenties) but through sustained hard work I overtook them all, I beat them all and sent them to their premature retirement! I am 55+!

If a person has used his earlier years (prior to 14-15) playing other sports, developing coordination, ABC of movement, and athletic ability, starting around 13-15 could be blessing in disguise because when you are playing tennis players tend to neglect these important attributes! And then from this point on it's your commitment, dedication, determination, taking quality lessons, quality practices, quality tournament matches, and above all quality mental framework toward tennis. If you are athletic and you start around 14 years of age, and by 20 if you could clock around 10,000 to 12,000 hours of tennis practices/matches, you could be top 50 ATP player around the age of 24! I mean it is possible!

But if you are playing for pure fun, then you can even start playing tennis at the age of 100 (if you live that long without tennis that is)!

I agree with you here. See I have always watched tennis, played a tiny bit every once in a while etc, but I have always known the basic strokes just from watching tennis and have developed great coordination from playing basketball, football, and baseball pretty much my whole life. It is a TON different for someone who isnt athletic, and has no clue about strokes or about the game to pick it up.

[Bungalo Bill]

Gary,

Wow! I said let's end this. You are reading a lot into my note, oh well, this is clearly something that gets under your skin and I am now well aware of how many things you are "anti". If you don't like academia in general that's your choice, it is too radical, too liberal, too hypocritical, whatever else you want to say. No one is stopping you from having those views. I'm not.


Academics as a group are not interested in athletics, Title IX is something the NCAA and the Administrative types on campus deal with. I was very interested in it while I was a professor because I happen to support athletics, a minority view among the faculty. Even so, professors are token member of such committees, we are kept informed but the admin makes the decisions. The Faculty senate lets them because frankly, the Faculty senate doesn't care. What the Faculty would probably vote for, if it were up to them is to return the American University system back to its roots, the European system, where athletics are completely separated from academics. Those European club teams are quite effective if they put their minds to it, e.g., soccer. Not going to happen of course.

Nothing will be accomplished if we continue with this.

If it makes you feel better, I lost. You won. Let's talk about tennis.

You know, I have been under "Gary's wrath" when he felt strongly about something. But in this case his argument is not personal.

In these bulletin boards everyone is allowed to argue. People here can present their ideas, opinions, and factual information to prove their point. If someone feels strongly about something, you will probably read some emotion in the words which again there is nothing wrong with that.

If a person makes a case for their side and the other can't, it does not mean the person providing more convincing information is attacking the other personally. They are debating the subject and the weaker argument will always pan out.

Title IX and all of its intentions was good a thing. However, the practices implementing and sustaining Title IX has been a joke. It needs to be amended and they need to have better "checks and balances" to ensure that it is implemented properly and that its intent is realized.

[Indiantwist]

what is Title IX . Please dont come full blast on me if i asked a dumb question or didnt do a search. I did. I just didnt understand it.

[Bungalo Bill]

what is Title IX . Please dont come full blast on me if i asked a dumb question or didnt do a search. I did. I just didnt understand it.

Title IX of the Educational Amendments of 1972 is the landmark legislation that bans sex discrimination in schools, whether it be in academics or athletics. Title IX states:


"No person in the U.S. shall, on the basis of sex be excluded from participation in, or denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any educational program or activity receiving federal aid." (BB's comments: The key words are Federal Aid. It means money. Anytime you want to sniff out abuse, just follow the money. No school wants to be in a position to be sued and/or lose Federal aid. Its free money. This means the potential for Title IX to be abused or miss its intent during execution is most probable. In a way, since I have a special needs child, its abuse is similar to the abuse many school districts mis-use Federal funds for special needs children. I know of several school districts that rechannel Federal funds that are for special needs children and their teachers and use them to support sports programs for "normal" children. Several school districts are anti-special needs children. Many Superintendents feel since some of these children will never amount to anything, they should not receive aid - just let them die so to speak. Unfortunately, they throw the deaf and other special needs children who can be productive and have intelligence in the same boat. I am saying this based on proof, as I led a parent's rebellion against Capistrano Unified School District and did research to prove this to government officials.)

Athletics has created the most controversy regarding Title IX, but its gains in education and academics are notable. Before Title IX, many schools refused to admit women or enforced strict limits. Some statistics highlighting the advancements follow:


In 1994, women received 38% of medical degrees, compared with 9% in 1972.
In 1994, women earned 43% of law degrees, compared with 7% in 1972.
In 1994, 44% of all doctoral degrees to U.S. citizens went to women, up from 25% in 1977.
Intercollegiate Athletics


Title IX governs the overall equity of treatment and opportunity in athletics while giving schools the flexibility to choose sports based on student body interest, geographic influence, budget restraints, and gender ratio. In other words, it is not a matter of women being able to participate in wrestling or that exactly the same amount of money is spent per women's and men's basketball player. Instead, the focus is on the necessity for women to have equal opportunities as men on a whole, not on an individual basis.

Read the full article here: http://bailiwick.lib.uiowa.edu/ge/aboutRE.html

[Rickson]

Gary's not very knowledgeable and he tends to make things up, claiming them to be facts. I remember when we were debating on the legal age issue, which is 16 in most states, and Gary was claiming that 16 is legal only for people who were close to 16 years old. Gary is a very ignorant person.

[Gary Britt]

Gary's not very knowledgeable and he tends to make things up, claiming them to be facts. I remember when we were debating on the legal age issue, which is 16 in most states, and Gary was claiming that 16 is legal only for people who were close to 16 years old. Gary is a very ignorant person.

This from the guy who keeps a spreadsheet of just how young a teenager he can have sex without violating the law.

The statements I made to you in that exchange were correct. Your blanket statement that any person can have sex with a 16 year old in New York state is in error (or whatever age and state we discussed). I reviewed the relevant statutes and explained to you how many other laws affected that statement. That there were laws about sexcual abuse of a minor, etc. that applied in some circumstances to criminalize the behavior, those laws just don't call it ****. Further, there are laws that criminalize the behavior irrespective of ages when the acts are committed between a teacher and a student, a camp counselor and an attendee, a babysitter and the child being babysat, etc.

The ignorance is your ignoring these things, and attempting to propagate your myths that your spreadsheet is the be all end all to just how young a girl you can screw over.

I don't care if you want to know the truth or not, I care more about those you might mislead into committing a felony.

People can judge for themselves who is the ignorant of this issue. The adult male in his twenties with a spreadsheet for how young a teenager he can have sex with or me and the advice I've given in contradiction of your point.

Gary

[Gary Britt]

Title IX of the Educational Amendments of 1972 is the landmark legislation that bans sex discrimination in schools, whether it be in academics or athletics. Title IX states:



Intercollegiate Athletics


Title IX governs the overall equity of treatment and opportunity in athletics while giving schools the flexibility to choose sports based on student body interest, geographic influence, budget restraints, and gender ratio. In other words, it is not a matter of women being able to participate in wrestling or that exactly the same amount of money is spent per women's and men's basketball player. Instead, the focus is on the necessity for women to have equal opportunities as men on a whole, not on an individual basis.


Hey BB, I know you aren't responsible for the content of the quote you provided. I just wanted to point out that the entire quote, and especially the part shown above, is a real pie in the sky view of what Title IX really has done.

As you know and have expressed, the devil as usual on these things has been in the details. It was and is a laudable idea, but suffers from some really bad implementations. Title IX has been in the regulations put out by the Feds and the court rulings that have come down expanded to having the effect of requiring discrimination against men. Title IX which was never intended to require many of the things it has been expanded to require has resulted in a lot of discrimination against men. Some coaches in California brought a lawsuit about this, but I don't know what happened or whether the suit is still pending.

Gary

P.S., thanks for the kind words of defense above.

[Bungalo Bill]

Hey BB, I know you aren't responsible for the content of the quote you provided. I just wanted to point out that the entire quote, and especially the part shown above, is a real pie in the sky view of what Title IX really has done.

As you know and have expressed, the devil as usual on these things has been in the details. It was and is a laudable idea, but suffers from some really bad implementations. Title IX has been in the regulations put out by the Feds and the court rulings that have come down expanded to having the effect of requiring discrimination against men. Title IX which was never intended to require many of the things it has been expanded to require has resulted in a lot of discrimination against men. Some coaches in California brought a lawsuit about this, but I don't know what happened or whether the suit is still pending. P.S., thanks for the kind words of defense above.

Gary,

Yes, you are right. There is much more detail regarding this Title. I tried to provide a "laymans view" although the language in the real document is much more detailed. The devil is certainly in the details, and schools will exploit things in their favor (getting more money).

If coaches in California brought suit, I could make a safe bet that the powers to be would hush this down. They did that to many parents when we challenged the school district and their accounting practices. The school district retaliated by hushing down parents (buying them off) and trying to reduce the parental force against them. Their isolating efforts were all geared to making a mockery of the parents who believed and had evidence of their misuse of Federal funds that should have gone to Special Needs children.

As the world turns....

[dennis10is]

Title IX's elimination of a huge number of men's tennis programs at colleges and universities is a Tennis discussion.

Gary

Start that thread if you wish to continue because there are two threads going on here and I'm getting back to the topic of the original poster.

[dennis10is]

I started playing tennis when I was in high school at 12 and when I was 16 I went to a university with a strong D1 program. According to the previous coach of that team, I wouldn't have made it but I could have played for a weaker D1 or for many D2,D3 team.

EDIT: Prior to tennis I played badminton and racquetball. Both sports helped me greatly in tennis. So you may want to add a year or two in your calculation.

As I've stated in a previous note, in addition to you working really hard, you need to be surrounded with good players and players who are better than you are. Tennis can not be learned alone. If no one serves a heavy lefty kicker,loop a heavy topspin, slide a breaking slice to you or whatever shots, all the knowledge you have on how to hit such a shot could never translate to the muscle memory to actually hit that shot. Likewise, your "killer" forehand is as good as it gets, don't see how you could improve on it and then play someone who take your best forehands in stride. That'll change your outlook!

I was lucky in that the top players in my high school started tennis when they were very young, club rats, and they went on to play at the strong D1s. So, I did not have to look far to see what can be done better. Of course, you need great coaching and my coach was a high level coach.

Although you do not need to be an expert to play college tennis. A good D1 player is an expert. The findings regarding acquisition of expertise is that in GENERAL a person will achieve a level of an expert after 10 years to dedication and proper mentoring from another expert. If you can not be that dedicated, it will take longer, if you are more gifted it will take less. I would extend such a finding to tennis. Also, there isn't an age limit of when you can start provided that you have had decent exposure to athletics so that your motor cortex haven't lost out to other activities. Of course, the older you get the harder it is to dedicate your entire being to tennis, i.e., family, career, etc... So, the path to expertise in adults usually takes longer, a lot longer.


Speaking of motor cortex, I would hazard to bet that if you take a fMRI of Agassi's brain, the area in his brain assigned to his hands would be huge.

[Gary Britt]

Start that thread if you wish to continue because there are two threads going on here and I'm getting back to the topic of the original poster.

The effects of Title IX in eliminating many available spots for a male tennis player in college athletics is directly on point to this person's question about the chances of making it with a late start. It isn't the only factor, but it is definitely one of the factors influencing his/her chances.

The bottom line is as I said in my original post, the chances of a female being able to do this are higher than a male, and the reason for the sex disparity in the answer is Title IX.

So stop trying to tell me where or what to post about and concentrate more on keeping your posts relevant and accurate.

Gary

[dennis10is]

The effects of Title IX in eliminating many available spots for a male tennis player in college athletics is directly on point to this person's question about the chances of making it with a late start. It isn't the only factor, but it is definitely one of the factors influencing his/her chances.

The bottom line is as I said in my original post, the chances of a female being able to do this are higher than a male, and the reason for the sex disparity in the answer is Title IX.

So stop trying to tell me where or what to post about and concentrate more on keeping your posts relevant and accurate.

Gary

Dude, BB is right "your wrath" is amazing and may I add very entertaining. BTW, my friends and I are enjoying your posts immensely. Keep it up, keep on posting!! We are concerned though that it may raise your blood pressure too much. I'm feel guilty about this so I should stop.

Fight the good fight! Maybe one day, Budweiser will do a radio commercial about you. "Real men of genius....." See I'm doing it again. I'm sorry. I promise I'll stop. We'll be discussing your posts, present and future, even if I won't be responding anymore. The warden has taken away my internet rights. I'm innocent I tell ya, she said she was 16 and I thought it was legal! Oops! I did it again. Gotta stop! Seriously, what you have said has been very informative and revealing and we're letting Homeland Security take over the investigation :) See, I'm doing it again :D

Use your anger! Turn to the dark side Gary. Only then will you have the POWER to make right all that is so left, the liberals, the radical feminists, the eggheads.

This has been so productive, I think we should team up and pitch a movie. What you don't like Hollywood? We'll pitch it to Mel Gibson. It could be in Aramaic. I've always wanted to learn that language, very sexy with the young ladies.

Peace and love. Sith Lord Gary, you know that I love you doncha. Please tell me that you do. Watch that blood pressure!!

PS. My friends are mainly atheist, male bashing lesbian academics but they want to change Gary, with your help they want to become Christain stay at home mothers, loving wife to men such as yourself. Please won't you help them achieve such a worthy goal.

[Gary Britt]

Dude, BB is right "your wrath" is amazing and may I add very entertaining. BTW, my friends and I are enjoying your posts immensely. Keep it up, keep on posting!! We are concerned though that it may raise your blood pressure too much. I'm feel guilty about this so I should stop. ............


What a putz. Just when I think your posts can't get more immature, you prove me wrong.

This might come as a shock to you and your friends, but I don't care how you entertain yourselves or what you think (and I use the term "think" loosely for your benefit). You just aren't important.

I think you missed this from my last post:
and concentrate more on keeping your posts relevant and accurate.


Gary

P.S., Regarding your lesbian friends, tell them to get naked and send me some pictures, but only if they look like the chicks on the L-Word.

[shindemac]

It's never too late!!!!! My bro started when he was a freshman. By the time he was a junior or senior, he was beating people who started earlier and had lessons when they were younger. I remember one guy saying how surpised he was by how fast my bro improved. He wasn't athletic either. But I think the keys were: he read a lot of books and magazines, watched a lot of pro matches, and played people better than him. He never took any lessons, but did summer camp once.

[luke15aw]

i have no way of getting the hours, the most i can hope for is 1.5 - 2 hours a day after school, and maybe a bit longer each weekend, that would give me 15 at the most a week. I could do 25 a week this summer, so thats 250 (10 weeks of summer) plus 630, giving me almost 900 hours a year if I'm lucky. I'm obsessed, would play tennis all day if i could, but i could never get to an academy, parents wouldnt think of it

[shsman2091]

i have no way of getting the hours, the most i can hope for is 1.5 - 2 hours a day after school, and maybe a bit longer each weekend, that would give me 15 at the most a week. I could do 25 a week this summer, so thats 250 (10 weeks of summer) plus 630, giving me almost 900 hours a year if I'm lucky. I'm obsessed, would play tennis all day if i could, but i could never get to an academy, parents wouldnt think of it

Well at this rate, it will only take you about 11 years to play a total of 10,000 hours and make it to the top 50 on the ATP Tour like Mahmoob Khan said. How old are you right now?

[luke15aw]

15

lol and where did he get this top 50 tour figure, as much as id love to believe in myself...

[dennis10is]

What a putz. Just when I think your posts can't get more immature, you prove me wrong.


P.S., Regarding your lesbian friends, tell them to get naked and send me some pictures, but only if they look like the chicks on the L-Word.

Oh no, you don't care for me :( I thought we had a connection, those passionate verbal intercourses that we've had. You showed me your sensitive vulnerable side, how tough it is to be a white American male, how you've suffered thru the unfairness of the liberal system. Yet you managed to be so well informed and correct. Those inclusion of pedophila and ****sexuality into a thread regarding tennis touched me deeply. It seems that you've had a record of being passionate about pedophila before with Rickson. I thought I was special. And now you want me to send naked pictures of women, and you know about the movie "L-Word". You are so informed about all that is wrong with America. Are you also this well informed about gay and pedophilia media? Of course, I understand that in order to defeat the enemy you need to know everything about them.

I salute you for your sacrifice and valor. I have to leave you now, as I said, you've won and I'm a convert to your world view. My lesbian friends and I are make a pilgrimage to worship the holy trinity Reagan, Bush and Bush. Maybe at some point in the future, I'll be worthy of you.

Think of me please Gary

PS. You are not working as a part time security guard in West Covina by any chance?

[Gary Britt]

Oh no, you don't care for me :( I thought we had a connection


No, that was the feeling generated by sitting on your thumb. I would recommend removing it before you become more delusional.


those passionate verbal intercourses that we've had.

Ah, your recurring obsession with oral intercourses. I'm sure you are very popular with your buddies. You should call your dad, and tell him what man you are.

You showed me your sensitive vulnerable side, how tough it is to be a white American male

Its a tough job, but hey somebody has got to do it. I appreciate your empathy, but I'd rather you just send money.

how you've suffered thru the unfairness of the liberal system

Thanks, but that hasn't been nearly as much sufferring as watching you drone on and on with your childish nonsense.

You quit having anything meaningful and at least superficially intelligent to write as of several messages ago. Its been sad really watching you descend into such deep denial rather than face the fact you were out of ideas. These continuing immature and pathetic attempts at sarcasm, are just your mind's way of avoiding facing the facts about your life. You are certainly making it clear why you are an ex-professor.

Those inclusion of pedophila and ****sexuality into a thread regarding tennis touched me deeply.

Well there you go again, confusing the effects of your thumb with internet email.

I thought I was special.

Of that you have left no room for doubt.

And now you want me to send naked pictures of women

Well at the time of that request I was assuming you had the use of two opposable thumbs. Perhaps I was mistaken. No need to worry about it.

Are you also this well informed about gay and pedophilia media?

If I or anyone else was well informed about it, how would you KNOW? Hmmmmm..... Still active in NAMBLA are you?

Of course, I understand that in order to defeat the enemy you need to know everything about them.

I'm not sure I have any enemies, but if I do they certainly don't include the pathetic and unimportant so you are completely safe, from everyone no doubt. Especially your father.

I salute you for your sacrifice and valor. I have to leave you now, as I said, you've won and I'm a convert to your world view.

Please, if a pathetic immature bug ger like yourself started showing up where I have friends, I might have to become a liberal.

My lesbian friends and I are make a pilgrimage to worship the holy trinity Reagan, Bush and Bush.

Is that code for a rave in New Orleans?


Maybe at some point in the future, I'll be worthy of you.

Ah, showtunes!! How... er... appropriate. I assume this is code for a song from the Man From La Mancha. You know, the one with the really big ending. Ok settle down and keep both hands above the keyboard.

PS. You are not working as a part time security guard in West Covina by any chance?

Why yes I am. I got a doctorate in Security Engineering from the Learning Annex, and next year I'm going to start community college part-time. Maybe I had one of your classes at the Learning Annex and just don't know it. You did say you were a Professor right? What a small world. What a small small world.

Gary

[Camilio Pascual]

Well there's your mi dwestern good sense in action!!!! (smile).
I believe we agree more than we disagree on this, and I hope my hyperbole for literary and sometimes inflammatory effect (wink) didn't obfuscate things too much. Gary

Why, thank you, Gary. We heah in The Heartland worry about those Godless Souls on the Coasts. (Wink!)

Yes, we are in agreement.

That was a very fine post (#57) that you wrote, Bungalo Bill, about some of the effects of Title IX.