Continental grip for serve ?

[bluegrasser]

I used a cont/eastern grips on both fh/bh volley and was always told by many players that I should use one grip (cont),so a year ago or so I tried the one grip and used it for close to a year , and what I found was less power on my volley, and my wrist felt strained as I had to turn it in more to square the face + If I didn't turn the wrist in the ball tended to float with no pace. My Q is: am I cutting myself short by not using one grip and are there others out there like me that changes grips.

[punch]

Hmm i've always used Continental on Serving and Volleying, never had any problems, only in the beginning of the tennis season here i have a little pain.

I use an eastern forehand and backhand. I would suggest a Semi-Western forehand or Eastern forehand, don't use continental for every stroke

Maybe your wrist is hurting because your using a stiffer, head heavy racquet.

[DX_Psycho]

my wrist hurt when i first used continental. after you get used to it and realize the power on volleys comes from the transfer of energy from your legs forward, you'll use your arm less. the grip is just there to keep the racquet face open when you transfer your energy.

if you use other grips, it's easier to dump it into the net.

[JackD]

Nothing wrong with using eastern grips to volley. Some coaches believe there isnt time for a grip change (there is) so they push players into the cont. If your changing your grip on the turn you'll have plenty of time to execute your volley and your wrists will be in a stronger position with the eastern grips as it sounds like you've noticed.

Where in MN are you??

[austro]

Continental grip on volley also hurts my wrist, especially on the BH. But I am a still trying...

[akj27]

it hurts my wrist on the fh, its really hard getting used to it

[bluegrasser]

Jack -I'm in Brk Ctr, and I hang out at Twin Cty Tennis, I even worked there last Sat for fun during their sidewalk sale..

[bluegrasser]

Jack -I'm in Brk Ctr, and I hang out at Twin Cty Tennis, I even worked there last Sat for fun during their sidewalk sale..

If the ball is up ( waist or higher ) I have no problem on the bh, just the fh gives me fits.

[JackD]

I work in Brooklyn Center...Braden and some other coaches did some research on if there was enough time to switch grips...bottom line there is sorry Nobadmojo. If you change your grips the right way you should have no trouble changing on the volley no matter how hard the ball is hit at you. Make sure you make the change while you turn from a ready position to the side your making your volley on. Using your non-dominant hand to control the raq face will allow you to staighten your right (if your right handed) arm and change the grip The fact that its hurting your wrist makes the grip change that much more important.

The timing is also easier if you are using the eastern grips and you will put less backspin on the ball allowing for a lower shot that penetraits the court a bit better.

Here's a link on the some time research for the volley...

www.coachesinfo.com

There's a section on the biomechanics of volleys were they site a study noting there is time to change grips I've got more info on it somewhere but I just moved and most of my tennis stuff is buried in the basement. Most of the tennis community recommends the cont. but it isn't the only option.

You post is titled cont/est for the serve...I'm not saying to use the easterns on the serve that should be a continental.

[bluegrasser]

Hey Jack, let me know if you want to hit sometime..

[GregOz]

JackD,
Im sorry but that report was one of the most fanciful things Ive ever heard. Sure, if you're set up for the shot and know exactly which side the ball is going then it's all fine and dandy. But, tennis doesn't work like that and Vic Braden -who spoke here in Australia about that and other coaching matters- knows it as well.

Basically, there are so many 'conditions' attached to the use of the Eastern as a volleying grip that it is self defeating. Not only is time a crucial factor but so is control. The Eastern might give you more power but it leads to overhitting as players slap at the ball. It also makes you a sitting target. Take up your Eastern forehand grip and have someone hit the ball right at the hip of your dominant side. See how much more cramped you are than with the Continental.

On top of that is the suggestion that you have TIME to use your non-dominant hand. What are you supposed to do on all of those occasions when you have to stretch for the ball or lunge at it? The non-dominant hand is totally out of the picture and there is no time to change grips. What about in doubles when the ball is hit with players only about a foot apart. Where's the time then?

Basically, you owe NoBadMojo an apology over this one because citing one very flawed report that claims to disprove what has been proven time and time again over the last god knows how many years is pretty rich.

[bluegrasser]

Tell that to Jack Kramer then, and other greats as well who used eastern grips on the volley, no apologies.. Just like everything else in life, whatever works..

[AndrewD]

bluegrasser,

I've got a few pics here of Kramer playing low and high volleys and he's using a very strong continental grip in all of them.

[bluegrasser]

Still, whatever works for ya...

[SageOfDeath]

Tell that to Jack Kramer then, and other greats as well who used eastern grips on the volley, no apologies.. Just like everything else in life, whatever works..

you can do whatever you want but I personally think you are limited with an eastern grip, yes whatever works. Soon you'll be using a semi-western for your serve because it works right?

[bluegrasser]

S/W for serve ? Hey, I might try that...

[Tennismastery]

Tell that to Jack Kramer then, and other greats as well who used eastern grips on the volley, no apologies.. Just like everything else in life, whatever works..

Unfortunately, 'whatever works' at one level won't work or be as effective...or defend more effective shots at higher levels. The strategy of 'whatever works' is the worst way to learn anything if accomplished skilled play or achievement is desired.

I don't know too many people who pick up a racquet and say, "Gee, I would love to play tennis but I really want to suck at it." Yet, using simple, familiar or 'whatever works' almost never works...and usually destines players to a tennis life of mediocrity...or, at best, reaching levels that are far below their potential.

Let's face it...how many players do we all know who have been playing for decades, and can't get much better than 3.5? They are usually the ones who used, 'whatever worked' at early stages and then found they couldn't change to 'what DOES work' later.

Why in the heck would anyone want to learn something that would have to change later? I know, I should hold the racquet like a ping pong paddle since that worked for me on some of the shots I tried...

Can anyone name a sport that teaches simpleton techniques just so players can, 'play' the sport? I think shooting baskets in basketball underhand and from between my legs--like I did when I was 6--should be the way to play basketball...After all, it worked.

[hofertennis]

hummm, almost every pro I know of uses a continental grip for volleys and serves. Using the continental grip for volleys involves some technique changes. You can't just block the ball back, you must swing & hit the ball with a karate motion. The contact point is not as far in front as before. Check with the local pro as to why there is pain or no power on these volleys.

[bluegrasser]

I tried the Cont grip and my volley suffered, sure I'd like to be like the other 90 % and use it, but plain and simple it didn't work for me. Maybe I should be tar and feathered for my transgression, or maybe some of you pros can fly here to the north country and de-program me. I get the same feeling when I tried to learn the two handed backhand early on as Connors and Borg were my favorites, but it just never felt natural.

[POGO]

Tell that to Jack Kramer then, and other greats as well who used eastern grips on the volley, no apologies.. Just like everything else in life, whatever works..
I remember in the 2nd grade we were learning our multiplications. We had memorize our multiplications table and I remember one particular classmate stating why learn it if you can use a calculator or use your fingers and stated "what ever works."

Well, 6 grade came around and that particular classmate was held back a grade since he did poorly in basic math. So I guess what ever worked for him did not get him very far and did not establish a solid foundation to advance further to the next academic level.

This goes for everything else. ;)

[bluegrasser]

addendum:
Just after a quick search I found some pro's advocating and endorsing Eastern grip for the volley - 1) Ron Waite (turbo tennis ) USPTR pro who says he teaches the Eastern grip as it's the stronger grip and the volley had more snap, he also stated the pros and cons of both grips, but felt the +'s were in the Eastern's favor. 2) Vic Braden of course. 3) Brad Properjohn ( The tennis coach ) and that was after a quick search.

[Tennismastery]

Certainly one can find individuals who tout just about anything that flys in the face of conventional wisdom. Don't know the other two pros, but I do know Braden hasn't taught a top-ranked junior or adult ever. (He still claims that Austin was his...I'm not sure how Robert Landsdorp would feel about that since he trained her from 6 years on.)

The problem lies in the fact that like bluegrasser here, we can't predict if unconventional will be ideal or if working through the more difficult but recognized skilled strokes and grips will pay off. We can look at the vast number of skilled players and identify what THEY do.

But, there are more extrinsic reasons why the eastern grips are generally flawed:

1. Making a specific grip change (because you HAVE to) between the forehand and backhand volley is limiting. Sure it works against 3.0 and 3.5 opponents. The ball usually comes back slower and such players don't come to the net a whole lot.

2. The argument that if one has time to change grips on a 120 + mph serve, one has time to change grips on a volley. This is completely false. A serve slows down considerably (as much as 65%) by the time it reaches the baseline. A player has around 80 feet of distance to make a decision on what stroke and grip to use. On a volley, the player has at least half that distance on a ball the is slowing down only 10 or 15% by the time it reaches the vollier.

3. When both players or all four in doubles are at the net, the distance to react is even less. Players with eastern grips get caught all the time doing the 'wiper' move in many of these situations. Again, at lower levels, probably ok. Against better players...

4. Eastern grips are predominantly used as topspin grips. Thus, many players who use the eastern grips tend to hit topspin volleys. This again can work against higher slower balls seen at the 3.0 or 3.5 levels. But, these players fail miserably against lower, harder hit balls seen at higher levels of play.

5. The ability to hit significant angles and touch on the volley is greatly diminished by those who use the eastern grips.

6. The contact point for the eastern grips is much further in front of the player. Because of the orientation of the racquet to the forearm is generally at a 90 degree angle, eastern grip players tend to take their racquet back to where their racquet face is pointing to the side…in which case, the player tends to swing with an angular swing path to make contact…making angles difficult and timing more precise.

7. The ability to hit slice on the volley greatly enhances both the player’s ability to get a difficult shot up and over the net without having to resort to dinking, and in hitting a ball that can stay lower on the opponent’s side of the court. Flat volleys, like flat groundstrokes and serves, tend to produce dinkers.

8. The continental grip is not a grip that requires strength. It is a technique issue. Usually, players like bluegrasser can’t move away from the eastern grip because they use the same swing path they use for such grips which are not the same for a continental grip volley. (It is NOT just a grip change!) I demonstrate deep, firm volleys using just my thumb and index finger holding the racquet. I have 8 year olds who hit continental grip volleys just fine…it is all about introducing players to the right technique…not allowing them to simply do ‘what ever works.’

[All Court]

Bluegrasser, you asked for advice and opinions on whether or not changing grips would be useful or not. You got them. People, experienced people, I might add, have said and established that yes, it WOULD hold you back.

So you have your advice, and everyone else's opinions. If you weren't planning to follow any advice in the first place, why ask?

[bluegrasser]

Chill allcourter , it's about dialogue and bouncing off ideas, I haven't said my opinion is right, I'm just expressing my honest opinion how the grips have affected me that's all.
I have an offer for you guys - I'll pay for three one hour lessons ( pros only) but you'll have to pay the airfare, and if you improve my volley, I'll pay for half the airfare. Fair ?

[Tennismastery]

Chill allcourter , it's about dialogue and bouncing off ideas, I haven't said my opinion is right, I'm just expressing my honest opinion how the grips have affected me that's all.
I have an offer for you guys - I'll pay for three one hour lessons ( pros only) but you'll have to pay the airfare, and if you improve my volley, I'll pay for half the airfare. Fair ?

Let's see: 3 lessons at $65/hour = $195 (Non-member rate)

Round trip airfare from Minnasota: $400

You refuse to use proper grip and subsequent swing pattern because you are not willing to a) put in the time with it and b) play initially at a perceived lower level since new techniques are frustrating and difficult: you remain at the level you are for a lifetime, (probably at 3.5 or 4.0 at best since few 4.5 and above players use eastern grips on their volley).

I'm out $105 and three hours of my time.

Fair? Hardly!

Another player who can't reach their potential:

Priceless.

[All Court]

I'm sorry, I wasn't intending to be mean, it was just more of a question. Thanks for not taking it harshly.

But just try getting used to continental volleys more. Go to a wall, still try to use them in matches, just work with them. It takes time, but when it clicks, you WILL see results.

It could be a part of the form that's making it extra uncomfortable for you. Remember that you elbows should always be closer to your body than your forearm and racquet, not flopping out.

But I think it's more of just getting used to it. I used to use my forehand and backhand grips for forehand and backhand volleys. When I started tennis, everybody said I was an excellent volleyer. But that was mostly just because I had long reach. I've switched to continental, and have been using it for about 8 months now. I can honestly say it's so much easier to do so much more with volleys.

Keep trying the continental grip. You'll find that there's a reason 90% of all players use it on volleys.

[bluegrasser]

LOL- Hey I'm the big 50, and a 4.0 to boot, not too bad for an old duffer. I'm actually using the cont on the bh volley - hey, I might give it another shot, you know I'm starting to feel lonely out here... in Eastern land that is.

[Tennismastery]

LOL- Hey I'm the big 50, and a 4.0 to boot, not too bad for an old duffer. I'm actually using the cont on the bh volley - hey, I might give it another shot, you know I'm starting to feel lonely out here... in Eastern land that is.

Actually, if you are using the continental on the backhand volley, you are well on your way. It is on the backhand side especially, that players fail to improve when using the eastern grip. Forehands can be manipulated to a certain degree that players can use the eastern grip and be competitive at higher levels. My experience in training thousands of players is that the vast majority who use eastern grips tend to do all of those listed items I mentioned in a previous post!

Good on ya for wanting to understand the techniques better and try to improve within them. Just don't go by what all the 'psuedo gurus' say. Those who favor using eastern grips on the volley or serve have seldom, if ever, worked with large numbers of players for any substantial period of time. Guys like Braden only see players for three days...how can anyone conclude from three days if their techniques and/or philosophies are helpful in the long run?

And, unfortunately, you are not alone in 'eastern grip volley land'...there are millions of players who are stuck at 3.0 or 3.5 or even 4.0 levels (even as they have the potential to reach much higher levels!) using these grips.

But, I hope you can explore higher levels of skill for yourself and distance yourself from this large population! Remember, skilled tennis is far more rare than mediocre!

[ShooterMcMarco]

does anyone here use the continental for kickserves? i can hit a kick a lot better with it than the eastern bh

[bluegrasser]

Wish summer wasn't ending, not enough time to experiment indoors, GW next summer.

[Tennismastery]

does anyone here use the continental for kickserves? i can hit a kick a lot better with it than the eastern bh

Most use the continental for the kick serve. The difference is in the wrist position as we turn the wrist out, mimicing the position of the racquet as if we were holding an eastern backhand grip. Those who actually hold an eastern backhand grip tend to lose some racquet head speed and I have seen some of these players hurt their wrist. The other difference is in the approach to contact. To hit a kick serve, the player will need to keep their elbow from whipping forward too fast as this will cause the racquet to come forward edge on too early and not allow the player to brush up the inside portion of the ball for the correct axis of spin and the 'kick' bounce to the right (right-handed). Also, players must stay sideways longer too.

[bluegrasser]

I was shadow boxing with the con't grip and i think I know why I don't like it, when I hit the BH ( I guess my bh volley was between an Eastern and cont ) and turn the wrist in or lay it back for the fh volley there's a strain on the wrist,pull whatever and it hurts a little, maybe these limbs of mine are burnt toast.

[All Court]

It does take forearm/wrist strength. Try squeezing a tennis ball if you have nothing, or look up forearm/wrist exercises under Marius' "Great Fitness Sites" post, maybe.

It helps a lot with the volleys. While the continental has the most options and even effectiveness, many people don't get the benefits because the wrist position with continental is weak. Supply some of your own forearm/wrist strength and it'll start to feel much more solid.

Give it a shot. Hopefully your volleys will feel a lot more comfortable.

[Burt Turkoglu]

.....volleys are the strength of my game....I am known for my fast hands which helps me in doubles....I end up getting in alot of quick volley duels because I crash the net on most returns against serve and volleyers....I have a bit of a weird grip though.....my grip is between continental and eastern.....I always felt my hand was built different......when trying the continental, my grip always migrates back after just one volley.....if I have a weakness in my volley, it's low forehands with no pace (a chip)....I really have to concentrate on getting down low by dropping my right knee.....there was a Spanish Pro Player once I remember reading about.....he hit all his strokes with an Eastern forehand grip......topspin forehand, chip backhand, volleys......not serve though....I believe it was Manuel Santana......not sure....my memory is goin' on me.....

[eggnog]

Bluegrasser,
I was switching grips for volleying until i got to college doubles. I found I couldn't switch grips fast enough; in volley exchanges, or when i'm at net and the returner goes right after me on a weak second serve and i have no idea which side he's going to hit, left, right, belly button I was often caught with the wrong grip or inbetween grip that produced a terrible weak volley.
Fast forward 20 years, playing social tennis now mostly doubles. When I assess my opponent, one of the things I look for is whether they switch grips for volleys or not and what grip is their base grip in ready position. if their base grip is a forehand grip then whenever i have a volley exchange or strong groundie I go to their backhand and if i have a chance to hit it back to them twice in a row, I try to hit it once to one side and then quickly to the other side, forcing a grip change. they are often too late in the grip change or caught in an inbetween grip and they mishit or pop the ball up. I'm doing to them what was done to me long time ago.

If you play a lot of singles and venture only once in a while to the net just for putaways, then maybe you can get away with switching, but serious S&V and topflight doubles... continental all the way. I'm not a big man but I sufficiently strengthened my arm so i was able to hit the continental FH volley with authority.

Many of the posts here stated the pros for continental very well. i just chimed in with some concrete examples based on real life experience at a very low level. for sure, at the college level and higher, the great majority of serious volleyers uses continental. I've no statistics to back this up.

good luck!!

[bluegrasser]

Thanks eggnog - I'll work on it..