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Rickson
10-07-2005, 09:08 AM
When I used to play with a double handed backhand, the only 1 hander I could hit was a slice. I've been using a one hander for over a year now and although I now have no problem with my topspin and flat drives, I seem to have lost my slice backhand. I find that when I go for backhand slices now, my balls pop up. Any tips on how I can get my slice backhand back?

SteveI
10-07-2005, 09:44 AM
Hi,

You are opening up the face of the frame too much (only need about 5% or so). You need to drive thur the ball more.. almost like sticking a volley. Make the sure ball is out in front and your body weight is moving froward.

Regards,
Steve

FiveO
10-07-2005, 11:06 AM
Ricks,

Grip? Grip definitions are becoming more and more blurred IMO. What was extreme eastern in the past is described as eastern by some today. If your 1hbh grip has morphed toward the extreme it can be difficult to open the face 5 to 10 degrees without breaking down the wrist position in a mild reverse windshield wiper type motion which can cause floaters and/or pop-ups. Personally I use two grips on the bh. A very near true eastern for flats and topspins and continental on slice chips and blocks.

Take back. Are you coiling enough in the set up? Get your hitting shoulder blade toward the net on the take back. Sometimes set ups on the bh break down. Coil so there is enough to uncoil with.

Stance. Don't close down too much. People tend to take their time hitting slices. They sometimes laze to the ball and their last step is taken toward the side fence instead of on some kind of diagonal forward. Try to have at least some linear transfer forward.

Too high to too low? Just like topspin requires the racquet face to approach contact points from inches below the ball and not feet sometimes players exaggerate the high prep too much. Real high prep means the racquet must come on a real steep downward path and you can get those same pop-ups. Think of your swing path coming from inches above contact rather than feet.

For the same reason as above get your butt down. Standing too tall on the bh could result in a much too steep downward path. It can also limit your linear weight transfer forward into the court and ball.

Maintain a volley-like wrist position throughout, somewhere near a 45 degree angle between forearm and racquet shaft. Don't let the wrist de-c-o-c-k during the forward swing. Allowing the wrist to de-c-o-c-k can yield similar results that a steep downward racquet path that a too high backswing causes=pop-ups.

Accentuate the contact zone. Even on sliced groundies emphasize that linear path through contact. The face still has to move straight line 6" prior and 6" after contact.

Don't open up too much. Hide the off hand from your opponent behind your body line into the follow-through. It will prevent from uncoiling too much and pulling off the linear path and across the ball instead of through it.

Good Luck.

NoBadMojo
10-07-2005, 11:28 AM
Lots of people seem to think too much defense on a slice backhand..often thinking offense instead puts juice into your sliced backhand....if you think of it as an agressive shot rather than a passive shot you are more likely to shoulder turn and weight transfer, take a longer swing and get some work on the shot.

SteveI
10-07-2005, 11:37 AM
NoBadMojo,

Very well said. When I am having problems producing good action on the slice.. most times I am not driving thur the ball and letting the ball get too far back. The easy fix for me is to stay agressive and make sure I am moving into the ball and not hitting a defensive shot as you stated. 5.0's explanation was excellent but I need easy things to remember when I am having problems or trying to fix a problem with one of my students. If I use too many directions with my students.. I get that "glazed" look that teachers hate to see.. :-)

Regards,
Steve

NoBadMojo
10-07-2005, 11:52 AM
thanks Steve..FiveOh knows his stuff for sure. I always try the simple less technical aproach first..if that doesnt work, i try the simple less technical approach but saying it in a diff way...often if you say things a certain way, you dont need to get too technical (altho i can)....like in this case there may be no need to get into racquet angles as a more agressive swing might get you to hit a little sooner with a racquet face less open to the 5 or 10 degrees provided you have a reasonable grip of course...technical when teaching as you know can turn your lesson into the deer in the headlights..the key to teaching i believe is to mostly avoid anything very tecnical and know the right ways to present things so that they will automatically do the technical stuff right..if one cue doesnt ring their bell, try another..one of them will work. that's my style anyway and i really try and avoid anything very technical or that involves lots of elements..that and to have them have fun and the right amount of exercise..i realize different styles are effective too but nothing worse than a teaching pro who likes to hear hm/herself talk and baffles people with alot of abba dabba and jargon ;O

Bungalo Bill
10-07-2005, 12:33 PM
When I used to play with a double handed backhand, the only 1 hander I could hit was a slice. I've been using a one hander for over a year now and although I now have no problem with my topspin and flat drives, I seem to have lost my slice backhand. I find that when I go for backhand slices now, my balls pop up. Any tips on how I can get my slice backhand back?

Watch how your wrist is moving in this shot. There are a couple swing patterns to hit a slice within guidelines of each other. The main key to all of them is holding the wrist (not allowing it to curl up just before contact) and maintaining a relatively flat racket face for a driving slice.

When I practice hitting the slice I consciously think about holding the wrist and swinging towards hitting the top half/outside portion of the ball.

Also, your distance from the ball can contribute to a pop-up type slice. Give yourself some room to let your arm go outward and forward into the ball. Dont worry it will straighten out and the racket face will feel like it grabbed the ball putting some intense spin on the ball while it shoots over the net.

FiveO
10-07-2005, 12:37 PM
SteveI and Mojo,

Totally agree with the two of you. In this "teaching" format I'm torn. My personal stroke "cues" on court and my verbal direction to a student are short and concise. More doing/less discussing. Being instructors, past and present, we're all aware there are a myriad cues to achieve any one intended result or to correct many little mechanical flaws "unconsciously". On court is easier due to the ability to demonstrate and the student having immediate feedback as to feel and results he/she sees right there and then, correct and incorrect when following simpler cues. Also assessing level and command of fundamentals is much easier when seeing it on the other side of the net. Many more balls, less talk, there where adjustments and fixes are easier and more tangible. Where the instructor gets to see "light bulbs" go on over the lesson's head and then the smile when they hear "that's it!"

Here, I'm prone to the technical to encourage discussion and a deeper understanding of stroke production and mechanics. I believe understanding how the machine works off-court can lead to a deeper understanding of why the simple cue works on it. The same way a fighter pilot learns everything about his airframe, powerplant, avionics, and the physics of flight then uses that knowledge to do the "seat of the pants" stuff in combat. I also think the understanding allows and encourages the student to form their own stroke thoughts or cues. I'm not advocating going through a page long littany of self-talk when hitting each shot on the court. Use cues. Mine for example, on a penetrating slice bh is "ride" short for ride it.

Paralysis by analysis, or worse, boredom, is a fear of every instructor. Mine too. Here, in the internet format, I look at the instruction as being in "article" or book form. On court instruction is a different animal to me. JMHO but I think there is value in both the technical and the "swing thought" cues, don't know if it's right or wrong, just hope it helps.

akj27
10-07-2005, 12:40 PM
it helps, now both of you(5 o and nbm) reply in my thread

SteveI
10-07-2005, 12:52 PM
5.0,

The little cue in my head is "Roger". I get a visual cue to think about how the Fed Express drives thur his slice bh. I think it might be the TW homepage pic BTW. Anyway.. you are also right, this board is a great place to be technical when responding to such a question. Guess I just drifted into my instructor mode since I did not know the level at which Rickson plays.

Thanks 5.0 and NBM.

Regards,
Steve

NoBadMojo
10-07-2005, 01:45 PM
aye Five,
This is indeed a dificult metaphor..to translate words into something visual and not being able to see the player, not being able to demonstrate, and often not knowing what he/she is really saying for sure renders it almost impossible..i dont post much in this forum for these reasons unless I have something simple and clear and precise to offer which may help <like i tried to do in this thread> or if someone is clearly saying something very wrong..otherwise things are too subject to interpretation.
Steve if you get down my way, please look me up..ditto for you Fiver..we'll have a hit and a frosty beverage.

Rickson
10-07-2005, 01:47 PM
Great replies, thanks a lot, coaches.

FiveO
10-07-2005, 02:42 PM
Mojo,

Sounds like a plan. I for one would love to see you post in this forum more often.

5

SteveI
10-07-2005, 04:03 PM
aye Five,
This is indeed a dificult metaphor..to translate words into something visual and not being able to see the player, not being able to demonstrate, and often not knowing what he/she is really saying for sure renders it almost impossible..i dont post much in this forum for these reasons unless I have something simple and clear and precise to offer which may help <like i tried to do in this thread> or if someone is clearly saying something very wrong..otherwise things are too subject to interpretation.
Steve if you get down my way, please look me up..ditto for you Fiver..we'll have a hit and a frosty beverage.

Great Post..I would love to hit and have a few frosty beverages.
Mojo.. has the Volkl Tourney Bag.. I sent ya few years back holding up?

Have a great night Mojo and 5.0. Rickson.. we are here to serve!! :-)

Regards,
Steve I

NoBadMojo
10-07-2005, 04:47 PM
Steve,,,i retired the bag for a while, but recently it rose again like the Phoenix from the Ashes..it's a good bag..thanks. Ed