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dr4hand
11-09-2005, 06:21 AM
HI there,

My stringer has some deal with Gamma and so can get me a stringing job with Gamma natural gut for a price that would make the trouble of buying gut on my own a waste of time. I.e. a full gut job could be had a 40 $.
Question: How does Gamma natural gut compare to the Klip and Bow Brand or other guts ? Anybody uses it?
Is there a better deal out there ?

Thanks

DXS
11-09-2005, 07:44 AM
I've used it. It compares to Babolat Tonic in my experience. It's pretty good, but I'm not a gut guy. I'm a poly/gut guy. I think $40 is a little step, but I string myself so I'm basing it on that.

wonder_wall
11-09-2005, 10:11 AM
Question: How does Gamma natural gut compare to the Klip and Bow Brand or other guts ? Anybody uses it?...

For a couple of months I've been using it in addition to using VS Touch.

I believe the Gamma stuff, at least when I purchased, was actually Pacific. I say that only b/c it said made in New Zealand on the back. On the USRSA string ratings, Pacific actually comes out with better ratings in things like softness than VS!

After installing and using it, I believe it's fine gut, but I'm still evaluating differences with VS. One problem here is I think my 2nd "identical" racket may have a small problem since I'm getting a very mild ping in it, and the Gamma is in that one, so I think I can't entirely make a direct comparison (bought the damn thing off e b a y, won't do that again - though the racket was never strung, the idiot seller packed it extremely poorly and so it may have been slightly damaged in transit - I've never thought it really plays right - lesson: stick with TW who packs things the best of any of the online tennis merchants I've dealt with).

But I have played them one after the other, and certainly both felt like quality gut strings.

The feel is definitely gut on the court and before installing I examined the string and ran my finger down it and it certainly looked and felt like something of high quality with low error tolerance. I judge this by appearance as well as feel in the fingers. The appearance was translucent, as opposed to VS "striated." It looked a little like glass, which would seem to indicate a pretty high quality level.

Stringing it was about the same as VS, but this string did feel somewhat drier than VS. I don't know how much that really matters though as both seem dry compared to nylon (my previous string of choice).

I can tell you that if you want gut, it seems to me to be basically a FINE gut. In addition to playing well, I haven't had any durability issues, probably the thing I've read about most out here with cheap gut, though it's my impression that the VS might last a bit longer, but this is very subjective. The VS lasted me about a month and a half with at least 8 hours a week of play WITH STRING SAVERS. With the Gamma I've been playing less but it's lasting longer, so I can't give you any hard objective data since the actual hours of play in the Gamma are not directly comparable by calendar.

Obviously it comes in the gauge you want so there's no comparison there to Tonic, which is only available in the largest diameter. For example, if you were intending to get 17 gauge gut, Tonic is out of the question.

Bottom line, I'm still evaluating around the margins, but certainly basically it is fine gut in my opinion, and that's comparing directly to VS Touch (16).

Next restringing (I now only put gut in my number one racket b/c with string savers it's lasting me so long) I'm planning to put the Gamma in my "number one" racket and see if anything else becomes apparent about it.

dr4hand
11-09-2005, 10:31 AM
Thank you for your valuable input.

Is it a must to use string saver? And if so does having them change the feel and performance of the string?

Again, thank you

diredesire
11-09-2005, 12:49 PM
Thank you for your valuable input.

Is it a must to use string saver? And if so does having them change the feel and performance of the string?

Again, thank you

It's a good idea, but you don't need to apply them all the time. just put them at the junctures where you start to notice fraying.


I think you're also getting it for quite a good price. People tend to jack UP the price for gut labor, as it's somewhat delicate in nature.

Hey wonder_wall. have you checked the buttcap to see if the pinging stops? I've had a few very rattly racquets come back to me, but it ended up being crappy QC in the butt-cap insert dept. Just thought i might mention it because it's not a common problem people bring up.

wonder_wall
11-09-2005, 04:19 PM
It's a good idea, but you don't need to apply them all the time. just put them at the junctures where you start to notice fraying.
First to the original poster, I don't think string savers have alot of effect on the play, but haven't tested this because I don't plan on installing strings costing $35 and then have them go out on me in a week or so. So, it's not really a relevant point for me. The gut is quite nice with the string savers, and the strings don't move which is another massive benefit to me. Also, it would seem intuitively obvious that putting a whole lot of string savers in would raise the tension of the strings, since they add space between each intersection. Also, it would seem intuitive to me that the strings are now more "undulated" and hence perhaps would give more spin. I haven't noticed much in the way of additional spin.

Back to the above point, personally, I put them all over the place, leaving only the last 3 or 4 mains left and right and last 3 or 4 top and bottom unprotected.

With both of these guts, they start fraying somewhat immediately, all around the center.

It's like a "slow burn" all the way to end of life.

If you wanted to start to do it with fraying, I fear after the first day you'd do something pretty similar to what I do anyway. :\

Also, I've noticed with the string savers that if one is missing - they do fly out occasionally - I very quickly start getting significant fraying often resulting in a "thread" of gut separating off, and at that point it doesn't seem like the string savers help that much anymore at that intersection because the string is already largely gone there. I now carry a little string saver applicator in my bag and when I inspect the strings between points and such it is *not* for movement as much as for missing string savers, because I think the thing to do is replace them immediately if any fly out to avoid the string weakening really quickly in that spot. But they don't come out that much, maybe a couple in a week of playing 8 hours or so.

I think you're also getting it for quite a good price. People tend to jack UP the price for gut labor, as it's somewhat delicate in nature.
Yes, sounds like a good price, but notably if it really is Pacific gut, the only places I know of where that stuff can be had it's very expensive, so the Gamma natural gut may very well be a kind of good deal on that level as well (i.e. perhaps better deal than BDE, though BDE sounds like quite good string as well).

The Pacific Gut 17 is actually the "reference standard" in the USRSA's stringing measurements. I.e. 100% at any given measurement means the string performed in that measurement just like Pacific Gut 17.

Hey wonder_wall. have you checked the buttcap to see if the pinging stops? I've had a few very rattly racquets come back to me, but it ended up being crappy QC in the butt-cap insert dept. Just thought i might mention it because it's not a common problem people bring up.
Don't do butt caps as of yet, but I tend to doubt it's in there. It's a pretty minor ping and it seems to me to sound from the head somewhere, that damned piece of crap.

But maybe I could try it. I guess you need a staple gun to put the thing back on though? I assume you just pry out all those staples on there, then just yank it off?? Is it usually glued as well as stapled? It might be interesting watching that particular racket get pulled apart... I had been wondering about pulling the butt cap wrt "matching" rackets, adding weight in the throat, etc. anyway. Any info appreciated, sorry if off topic.

diredesire
11-09-2005, 11:30 PM
First to the original poster, I don't think string savers have alot of effect on the play, but haven't tested this because I don't plan on installing strings costing $35 and then have them go out on me in a week or so. So, it's not really a relevant point for me. The gut is quite nice with the string savers, and the strings don't move which is another massive benefit to me. Also, it would seem intuitively obvious that putting a whole lot of string savers in would raise the tension of the strings, since they add space between each intersection. Also, it would seem intuitive to me that the strings are now more "undulated" and hence perhaps would give more spin. I haven't noticed much in the way of additional spin.

Back to the above point, personally, I put them all over the place, leaving only the last 3 or 4 mains left and right and last 3 or 4 top and bottom unprotected.

With both of these guts, they start fraying somewhat immediately, all around the center.

It's like a "slow burn" all the way to end of life.

If you wanted to start to do it with fraying, I fear after the first day you'd do something pretty similar to what I do anyway. :\

Also, I've noticed with the string savers that if one is missing - they do fly out occasionally - I very quickly start getting significant fraying often resulting in a "thread" of gut separating off, and at that point it doesn't seem like the string savers help that much anymore at that intersection because the string is already largely gone there. I now carry a little string saver applicator in my bag and when I inspect the strings between points and such it is *not* for movement as much as for missing string savers, because I think the thing to do is replace them immediately if any fly out to avoid the string weakening really quickly in that spot. But they don't come out that much, maybe a couple in a week of playing 8 hours or so.


Yes, sounds like a good price, but notably if it really is Pacific gut, the only places I know of where that stuff can be had it's very expensive, so the Gamma natural gut may very well be a kind of good deal on that level as well (i.e. perhaps better deal than BDE, though BDE sounds like quite good string as well).

The Pacific Gut 17 is actually the "reference standard" in the USRSA's stringing measurements. I.e. 100% at any given measurement means the string performed in that measurement just like Pacific Gut 17.


Don't do butt caps as of yet, but I tend to doubt it's in there. It's a pretty minor ping and it seems to me to sound from the head somewhere, that damned piece of crap.

But maybe I could try it. I guess you need a staple gun to put the thing back on though? I assume you just pry out all those staples on there, then just yank it off?? Is it usually glued as well as stapled? It might be interesting watching that particular racket get pulled apart... I had been wondering about pulling the butt cap wrt "matching" rackets, adding weight in the throat, etc. anyway. Any info appreciated, sorry if off topic.

Nice post!

If it's a vibrating sound, it might be the insert that some manufacturers have been putting in their buttcaps, not the actual cap. I've actually had a TON of this occurring in the tennis center i'm working at lately. For instance, the babolat PD has this insert that you can pry off with a pencil or awl and it's attached by a piece of double sided tape, but the tape doesn't really touch anything. Once the tape separates from the handle, it starts to wobble and vibrate. I thought this might be the problem, although it's pretty rare (i don't know why i've seen like 3-4 of them in the last week, though?!)

I just wanted to give you that tip in the just-in-case event.

dancraig
11-10-2005, 12:15 AM
__________

THE ANIMAL
11-10-2005, 01:57 AM
Ive used Gamma gut and its total rubbish doesnt compare anything like Bab gut in anyway. Stay away from it
. Pacific gut is ment to be very good and you dont go wrong with Babolat, and Bow Brand. cant coment on BDE have never used it.

wonder_wall
11-11-2005, 09:15 PM
Ive used Gamma gut and its total rubbish doesnt compare anything like Bab gut in anyway. Stay away from it.
Why does a guy bother to make a post like this?? Talk about total rubbish.

And then a guy who doesn't even use gut, but POLY with gut in the crosses. Dude, you can barely feel the gut in your racket!

Anyway, whatever I'm saying is based on gut being in the entire racket, mains and crosses.

But I thought I'd throw in a couple numbers. Pacific has a page comparing stiffness and tension loss in VS, Gamma Natural Gut and Bow Brand, showing that their string is both the least stiff as well as the one with the lowest tension loss!

But guess what, the Gamma and Bow Brand are virtually indistinguishable in these tests, but the Gamma is slightly better in both being less stiff as well as having lower tension loss than the Bow Brand.

But according to the guy above, Bow Brand is good string, but Gamma Natural Gut is "total rubbish."

Anyway, I don't claim to be a know it all or to be able to offer you these silly, absolutist statements like the above, which almost invariably wrt string are bunk. I don't claim it's better than VS either. You should be extremely skeptical of such extremely subjective statements.

All I've told you is it has no real problems I can see and it lasts and it does play like gut, and I'd certainly encourage you to try it for the good price you found, assuming the stringer has a good machine and produces decent work.

BTW, in the Pacific page I've referred to, the Gamma actually comes out with BETTER numbers than either the VS or the Bow Brand, and that's also true of the Pacific of course.

http://www.pacific-sport.com/content.php?datenb=pacificsite-tennis&name=site-tennis-news&language=en