Slice drive

[Golden Retriever]

I was playing this guy who has this unorthodox strokes on both sides. He would swing from low to high just like a drive would be like but on contact the racquet face is opened (facing upward) just like a slice would be like. Like a slice the ball has a lot of underspin and like a drive it has quite a lot of pace too. So the ball would have a lot of pace and because of the underspin it also bounces really low. Normally I could handle pace pretty well but not a ball with pace and bounces low! Any ideas of what should I do to beat this guy?

[Bobo Lat]

If your using a semi-western (or a western), change to an eastern grip, just for when you're playing him. Practice a little with it before though.

[FiveO]

Maintain your depth of shot. Hit consistently within 3 feet or less of the baseline. See if the opponent can hit that offensively when forced to hit on the rise. If not he will be forced to retreat further behind the baseline and likely hit shorter into your court and not so offensively, allowing you to step in and dictate with depth and angles.

Don't let the ball drop. Catch his slices at their apex after the bounce as close to net height as possible to keep the net out of your way as much as possible.

When forced to make contact from well below net height a good reply is to slice it back deep x-court and await the next ball you can do something with. The second best option is looping topspin deep x-court, however, if the opponent can handle higher balls, it is possible that it can keep you stuck in that uncomfortable exchange, feeding high balls which actually give the slicer a safer margin to clear the net and keep you hitting up.

IF the opponent can ONLY slice, and you have a decent net game, patiently do the above and approach on shorter balls with a sliced of flatter ball dtl and follow it to net. If you position yourself properly after that and the opponent hits with slice your volley height should be at or above net height. Again, you'll need a decent net game including a reliable overhead.

[Slazenger]

I'm confused.
How can a low to high motion produce underspin??

Sounds like he's hitting a driving slice, but the follow through goes up so it looks like he's hitting low to high.

Graf hits some of her backhand drives like that. It's almost a flat shot, but it has underspin.

That's some good advice FiveO.

[SageOfDeath]

I'm confused.
How can a low to high motion produce underspin??

I agree, If someone hits with a low to high motion with and his racquet face opens up, it will create a topspin lob.

[Golden Retriever]

I'm confused.
How can a low to high motion produce underspin??

Sounds like he's hitting a driving slice, but the follow through goes up so it looks like he's hitting low to high.

Graf hits some of her backhand drives like that. It's almost a flat shot, but it has underspin.

That's some good advice FiveO.

Hmmm...maybe you are right, the follow through is definately low to high but he could be swinging from high to low before the contact (like a V if you will.) Anyways the result is a flat ball with pace and underspin. Imagine a fast ball that bounces less than a foot high......

[Marius_Hancu]

Hmmm...maybe you are right, the follow through is definately low to high but he could be swinging from high to low before the contact (like a V if you will.)

that's much more probable ...
treat it as any slice ... lots of advice here ...

FLEX your knees to be behind the ball ...

[ondray]

Have good anticipation, fast footwork, low knee bend, shorter backswing and hit the ball at ankle level with regular follow through towards the target.

That works for me. Having an eastern/continental grip helps but semi western/western gets the job done with the right amount of racquet head speed and topspin.

Have fun.

[Mahboob Khan]

Keep your shots deep.

With combination of cross-court and down the line shots, stretch him to his backhand and then hit angled cross court to his forehand.

Same as above, but this time stretch him to his forehand and then hit angled cross court shot to his backhand.

In the above two situations you may also want to sneak in for volley because from this wide position he has to hit up!

[mucat]

If he is really hitting only slice, give him low balls, either flat or slice all day long, fast pace slice shot can only hit from higher ball. Give him low balls, force him to slice up, move him around, come to the net when he is on defense, finish him with volley or drive.

[KennyNguyen]

He might be using a continental/strong continental grip; my dad does this a lot, very old school. You really just have to be ready for the ball and move to it with proper footwork. Stick with the style you prefer.

[Marius_Hancu]

Rosewall was extremely good in his slice drives.
He was killing the opponents with them for many years.
And he was number one in the pros for something like 5 years.

He had a particular but powerful technique: during the takeback the racket face faced the ground (closed) at some time, he came to the ball with the edge of the racket (this improves acceleration; it's done by pros before pronation during serves) and supinated (screw a bulb) into the shot during the last part of the forward swing and through contact.

Rosewall vs. Federer:
http://www.tenniscruz.com/Ken_Rosewall.htm
http://www.tenniscruz.com/Rosewall_Federer.htm
http://www.tenniscruz.com/roger_vs_ken.htm
(you may need to register, but the site is free)

[Mladen]

Is Rosewall slice really a slice? Forget about his slice-like racket preparation for a moment. What really matters is moment of contact. On contact racket face is perpendicular to the ground, and racket path is horizontal. This can't generate much underspin. I think this is flat drive shot.

[Marius_Hancu]

Is Rosewall slice really a slice? Forget about his slice-like racket preparation for a moment. What really matters is moment of contact. On contact racket face is perpendicular to the ground, and racket path is horizontal. This can't generate much underspin. I think this is flat drive shot.

Mr. Cruz, the author of the site, coached Jim Courier and saw Rosewall many times. He was himself a Davis Cup player. If he put that in the slice section, it IS a slice, OK?

And I can execute it, though not just like Rosewall:-)

It's a very penetrating slice, more flat than others, but a slice.

And your obs is wrong, the racket path is not perfectly horizontal, there's a slight U motion under the ball.

[Marius_Hancu]

not drives, but same motion:
you can see the supination.

Sampras BH slice approach and slice BH clips:
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras06.swf
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras07.swf
(use the slider on the left to slow-motion)

[Bungalo Bill]

Is Rosewall slice really a slice? Forget about his slice-like racket preparation for a moment. What really matters is moment of contact. On contact racket face is perpendicular to the ground, and racket path is horizontal. This can't generate much underspin. I think this is flat drive shot.

There is some debate regarding this but when you actually hit it like Rosewall did, it is a slice. I can hit this shot (although I do not normally hit this way) and it certainly produces underspin. But it can also put some pace on the ball because of the "flatter" motion.

It is extremely difficult to hit a ball with "NO" spin. If there is any spin on this ball it will be underspin - hence a slice.

Also, Marius knows what he is talking about and wouldn't post anything that is not true. He may have his preference or opinions on things (like all of us) but they are not unfounded or "way out there" in thinking. He definetly has a sensible and logic approach to tennis. It would pay to listen to him.

[Mladen]

Ok, I absolutely agree that this shot can produce some amount of slice. But tennis improoved in past 50 years. And the statement from that artice 'IMAGINE HOW MUCH BETTER ROGER FEDERER WOULD BE IF HE HAD KEN ROSEWALL'S BIOMECHANICS AND SHOT PRODUCTION!!!' is at least very funny.

[Bungalo Bill]

Ok, I absolutely agree that this shot can produce some amount of slice. But tennis improoved in past 50 years. And the statement from that artice 'IMAGINE HOW MUCH BETTER ROGER FEDERER WOULD BE IF HE HAD KEN ROSEWALL'S BIOMECHANICS AND SHOT PRODUCTION!!!' is at least very funny.

Certain shots have become mainstream but nothing is new under the sun.

Certain shots have improved in execution but again nothing is new under the sun. History always repeats itself.

The slice hasn't "improved" as much as the forehand. It is still executed with nearly the same mechanics as yester year. The Tommy Haas slice is becoming more mainstream where he does have a very downward motion.

The forehand is executed in the same manner as yesteryear. In yesteryear there were Western forehands, laid back wrists, and swings finishing across the body. What today's tennis has done is improved our understanding on how to execute a certain forehand that may have been dismissed because of political reasons, instructional reasons, and that tennis was still a very young sport so there were no standards.

Some of the strokes that have changed is mainly our acceptance of certain strokes as strokes that can be performed with consistency, keep injury chances to a minimum, and can be learned by the masses. These are the loose wrist forehand and the twohanded backhand.

Addtionally, the other area that has helped evolve this game is racquet and string technology. The game has gotten faster and with it the players have got stronger and faster.

So yes, I can understand what that title is saying. As great as Federer is, there is always room for improvement in everyone's game. After listening to Federer for quite some time, he does not seem like the kind of person that thinks he doesn't need to learn anymore.

I still believe today that Ken Rosewall and Steffi Graf were the two best slicers in our game. If a player wanted to learn their slices I would have no problem with it.

Steffi employed the very open face laid over her non-dominant arm backswing for many of her slice drives and drove right through the heart of the ball for incredibly penetrating slice backhands.

I think the most beautiful thing about her slice backhand was her consistency with it. Over and over and over again that ball would scream back over the net and skid, die, bounce to the left, making it very difficult for her opponent to attack. Then out of nowhere she step in and rip a topspin backhand, then an incredibly powerful forehand - point over. Simply an incredible competitor with one mean slice backhand.

If Rodger had Ken Rosewalls slice, geeez, it would seem he would never lose a match again. Federer's slices are not like Rosewalls. I am not sayimg Federer needs his shot but if he had that shot - I can't imagine how far he would go.

Players can learn how to hit a Ken Rosewall devistating flatslice by joiniing EASI tennis.