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aidenous
11-11-2005, 11:30 AM
Do the joint supplements really have any benefit? Like Osteo Bi-Flex or Flex-A-Min. Some of these have stuff like Glucosamine, Chondroitin & MSM.

They claim to help cushion your joints by providing the lubrication necessary to support comfortable movement and range of motion.

Anyone tried these and notice any improvements?

North
11-11-2005, 11:47 AM
They work, depending on which study you read, for 1/2 to 2/3 of the people who take them. The degree of effectiveness is also variable with some people noticing moderate, and others more pronounced, effects. One other factor that affects lubrication of joints is simple hydration status - adequate water intake every day. There are studies on symptoms of degenerative joint disease (osteoarthritis) that show significant symptom relief with adequate hydration.

I take glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM and notice a moderate difference so find it well worth taking.

Virus
11-11-2005, 12:01 PM
Yes, their are supplements that work. However, supplements that taught Chondroitin should be avoided. Chondroitin has shown in many studies to be extremely helpful if injected directly at the joint, but I'm unaware of any studies showing it of any benefit taken orally. In fact the studies show no benefit at all taken orally thus far. Glucosamine however has shown really good results taken orally. Look for a product that contains 1,500mg of Glucosamine and 100 mg or Cats Claw. Cats Claw has been clinically proven to lesson joint discomfort.

North
11-11-2005, 12:14 PM
Just some references on the joint supplements:
ebn.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/3/4/124

www.mja.com.au/public/issues/175_08_151001/bellamy/bellamy.html

jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/283/11/1387 (has link to the specific article)

www.americanutra.com/reprints/EddingtonStudy.pdf (article regarding variable quality of commercially available products)

There are also some studies I recall seeing in the past but have not been able to re-locate yet regarding synergistic effects of chondroitin plus glucosamine and, more recently MSM. Will post if I can find them.

aidenous
11-11-2005, 12:59 PM
thanks, I will look into these

Cruzer
11-11-2005, 01:20 PM
Do the joint supplements really have any benefit? Like Osteo Bi-Flex or Flex-A-Min. Some of these have stuff like Glucosamine, Chondroitin & MSM.

They claim to help cushion your joints by providing the lubrication necessary to support comfortable movement and range of motion.

Anyone tried these and notice any improvements?

The pro at the last club I belonged to swore by the stuff and took 1500 mg a day. I have taken it and not noticed any difference, but then again I do not have any joint problems. I asked my doctor about what benefits, if any were provided by these supplements. He smiled, shook his head, and laughed. He said it won't hurt you and at best it may help preserve the existing cartilage in your joints. It absolutely will not grow any new cartilage to repair damaged or replace removed cartilage.

Fatmike
11-11-2005, 01:33 PM
glocosamine is produced naturally by the body. But, there's no proof that taking some that you buy in a drugstore will be absorbed by the body and not only flushed in the toilet directly from the mouth.

Geezer Guy
11-11-2005, 02:06 PM
I take Flex-a-min. I did notice a BIG improvement in knee-pain about a month after I started taking it. I've been taking it several years now.

GRANITECHIEF
11-11-2005, 02:27 PM
I've always thought beer was a good joint supplement.

Virus
11-11-2005, 02:41 PM
glocosamine is produced naturally by the body. But, there's no proof that taking some that you buy in a drugstore will be absorbed by the body and not only flushed in the toilet directly from the mouth.

Actually, Shaklee Corporations product does have research showing the body absorbs the nutrients into the blood stream quite well. I wouldn't be surprised if other products like this exist. Just check their published research. If they do have published research on the particular product showing it works, it will work.

Felson DT et al. Obesity and knee osteoarthritis. The Framingham Study. Annals of Internal Medicine. 1988; 109:18–24.

Felson DT. The epidemiology of knee osteoarthritis: results from the Framingham Osteoarthritis Study. Semin Arthritis Rheum. 1990; 20(3 Suppl 1):42–50.

Sandoval M et al. Anti-inflammatory and antioxidant activities of cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa and Uncaria guianensis) are independent of their alkaloid content.
Phytomedicine. 2002; 9:325–37.

Sandoval M et al. Cat’s claw inhibitsTNF alpha production. Free Rad Biol & Med. 2000; 29:71–8.
Piscoya J etal. Efficacy and safety of free-dried cat’s claw in osteoarthritus of the knee: mechanism of action of the species Uncaria guianensis. Inflamm Res. 2001; 5:442–48.

root
11-18-2005, 12:12 PM
The fact is, whenever my knees start to hurt I take a month of glucosamine supplement and the pain goes away. I have been diagnosed with "softening of knee cartilage". So yes, it does work.

Waimea_Boy
11-18-2005, 09:45 PM
glocosamine is produced naturally by the body. But, there's no proof that taking some that you buy in a drugstore will be absorbed by the body and not only flushed in the toilet directly from the mouth.
Not at all true. Try researching next time. Oral supplementation is effective in increasing the amount of hylaine fluid produced. Someone with healthy joints won't notice the difference because they weren't in pain before, but for those with damaged cartilage, the extra fluid can help out quite a bit. It normally takes a few weeks before the effects are seen, however.

cervelo
11-20-2005, 08:17 PM
I've been taking Gluc./ Chondr. for several months now, with some degree of joint pain relief, I believe. Frankly, I don't have noticeable, chronic joint pain, but I thought I'd try it as a preventative measure in order to AVOID tissue breakdown. Is it good for that as well - or is it only designed to "lubricate" any existing degenerative conditions with fluid increase. In other words, is it a waste to take it without arthritis or other issues?

What about side effects? One thing I might suggest that I've experienced was mild weight gain (3 lbs, maybe), and my digestive, um, "process" seems to have slowed down a bit. I also noticed that I get dehydrated a little sooner than before.

Waimea_Boy
11-20-2005, 09:42 PM
I would consider it a waste to take a supplement that isn't needed. I'm a little confused though because you give it credit for decreasing your joint pain but then also claim to be taking it for purely preventative reasons.

Ronaldo
11-21-2005, 07:12 AM
GRANITECHIEF, Robert Parish, the Chief, made a similar statement. Took many years to learn that pitchers of beer after Celtic games did not adequately hydrate his body. Actually blames this practice on what he believed to be the premature demise of the Celtics.

North
11-21-2005, 08:42 AM
Since there still seems to be some interest in these supplements, I found a number of references regarding oral chondroitin as a component of joint supplememnts. It has not been as extensively studied as glucosamine but there appears to be at least some evidence for an independent mild positive effect of oral chondroitin. There is more, clearer evidence for a synergistic effect, with the chondroitin accentuating the effect of the glucosamine.

www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cdtiemd/2004/00000004/00000002/art00004

www.msp.mb.ca/protected/JournalArticles/28_3_Glucosamine.pdf

ondor.med.up.pt/1_2_reginster.pdf

www.mayoclinic.com/health/chondroitin-sulfate/NS_patient-chondroitin

www.swedish.org/110850.cfm

The best thing is probably to check out all the info for yourself and decide. My knees are definitely happier campers - lol - but the stuff doesn't work for everyone.

cervelo
11-21-2005, 08:56 AM
I would consider it a waste to take a supplement that isn't needed. I'm a little confused though because you give it credit for decreasing your joint pain but then also claim to be taking it for purely preventative reasons.

I don't have any chronic joint pain - but I've had some periods where I would deal with it - I've been taking the supplement and noticing that those periods are less frequent and don't last as long.

Waimea_Boy
11-21-2005, 10:04 AM
GRANITECHIEF, Robert Parish, the Chief, made a similar statement. Took many years to learn that pitchers of beer after Celtic games did not adequately hydrate his body. Actually blames this practice on what he believed to be the premature demise of the Celtics.
Either that, or the huge amount of marijuana that he smoked every day.

Steve Huff
11-22-2005, 12:28 AM
I take a product called Replenish, by Melaleuca. It has glucosamine and a few other things including green tea. It works wonders. I've taken OsteoFlex, and it works well too, but not like the Replenix. stmt@comcast.net if you have any further questions about Replenix. I was an RN, and always skeptible about these suppliements.2 of the guys I plsyed with began using them a swore they worked. Finally, I tried them, and believe it or not, they DID work.

Virus
11-24-2005, 10:59 AM
Melaleuca has been plagued with integrity issues for years. Just a couple of years ago, a new station did a report on MLM companies and had the Better Business Bureau present. This company didn't fair well. A simple search on google show numerous law suits against the company for various reasons.

If you read their website, they speak of patents all the time. My wife is a patent examiner. Just because a particular ingredient is patented, doesn't necessarily mean it has any benefit. You will also notice they state time and again of Research and Developement, but yet they have no research published in referee or peer review journals.

jwbarrientos
07-09-2011, 08:55 AM
I've always thought beer was a good joint supplement.

according some of my frineds... it provides vitamin "E" in a small glass, once after 3 set match

jwbarrientos
07-09-2011, 08:58 AM
My doc prescribed me a medicine combined with glucosamine and other things, he told me in some cases improves.

I will tell you in 2 months.

sphinx780
07-09-2011, 09:45 AM
I've taken Schiff Move Free for years and have had good results. The couple times I've decided to 'test' it by taking a month off or trying Osteo for that same time frame, the knee pain returns. I chalk the other brand issue up to what works best with my issue, not the product itself being bad.

My view is that it's well worth while to try out and see if it helps you. If not, at least you'll know.

OldButGame
07-10-2011, 06:37 PM
I've been told by orthos,...after getting MRIs done for various injuries,...that my shoulders,knees, and recently my hand had tons of arthritus in all those areas.

I would never know it because it never bothers me in any way.
And honestly??...I chalk it up entirely to the spectrum of supplements i take, some aimed at specifically that, joint/arthritus issues. This may illicit an avalanche of 'anti-supplement sentiment',...but for me,..the proof is in the pudding. :)

Nojoke
07-10-2011, 06:59 PM
I've been told by orthos,...after getting MRIs done for various injuries,...that my shoulders,knees, and recently my hand had tons of arthritus in all those areas.

I would never know it because it never bothers me in any way.
And honestly??...I chalk it up entirely to the spectrum of supplements i take, some aimed at specifically that, joint/arthritus issues. This may illicit an avalanche of 'anti-supplement sentiment',...but for me,..the proof is in the pudding. :)

What do you take?

Tennis_Monk
07-10-2011, 08:12 PM
I used to be on the camp of Glucosamine/Chron works.
However i have changed my opinion since.
I had the most benefit by taking Vitamin D supplements. This along with an enhanced fitness regimen resolved a few nagging issues for me.
As far as Glucosamine/Chron goes may be i am not the right candidate for them.

Ben Hadd
07-11-2011, 12:56 AM
The fact is, whenever my knees start to hurt I take a month of glucosamine supplement and the pain goes away. I have been diagnosed with "softening of knee cartilage". So yes, it does work.

I take Glucoasmine for a few weeks when my joints start hurting. Then back off until they hurt again lol. But it does seem to work, and the effect seems to not take long to be noticed.

Soul
07-11-2011, 10:12 AM
Recall this article by Dr. Eades with a mention on Glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis.

"Snake oil comes in all kinds of bottles"

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/snake-oil-comes-in-all-kinds-of-bottles/

OldButGame
07-11-2011, 11:25 AM
Recall this article by Dr. Eades with a mention on Glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis.

"Snake oil comes in all kinds of bottles"

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/snake-oil-comes-in-all-kinds-of-bottles/
This could really get into infinite debate if we went back and forth posting articles for and articles against supplement use/homeopathy/natural medicine.
For me the simplest evidence aside from the abundance of research and studies in the area is simply my own personal anecdotal experience.
From what i've been told i should be in a fair amount of discomfort frequently due to the "severe arthritus" i have in much of my body. And yet i dont experience that. And coincidently i take supplements aimed at that end.

Maybe it all comes down to 'belief'. (the placebo effect). Bottom line for me is, it works. :)

jhusein
07-14-2011, 11:04 AM
This could really get into infinite debate if we went back and forth posting articles for and articles against supplement use/homeopathy/natural medicine.
For me the simplest evidence aside from the abundance of research and studies in the area is simply my own personal anecdotal experience.
From what i've been told i should be in a fair amount of discomfort frequently due to the "severe arthritus" i have in much of my body. And yet i dont experience that. And coincidently i take supplements aimed at that end.

Maybe it all comes down to 'belief'. (the placebo effect). Bottom line for me is, it works. :)

If I may, what type/brand of supplement you take?. Thanks.

jwbarrientos
09-15-2011, 05:21 AM
My doc prescribed me a medicine combined with glucosamine and other things, he told me in some cases improves.

I will tell you in 2 months.

After 2 months of using glucosamine my doc told me to stop, pain are still there but really something I could play thru;

The doc told that the glucosamine I was prescribed had some painkiller and that the body needs to adapt to sports load I have or to slow down my sport routine...:???:

He finally said, even walking could be considered a sport, just in case :shock:

Ramon
09-15-2011, 06:12 AM
I'm 46 and tennis has been hard on my joints, but recently, they've gotten a lot better with a mix of supplements I've been taking. Here's what I'm taking for joints:

1) Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM - Old standby. Was enough by itself when I was younger, but not enough now.

2) Hyaluronic Acid - More expensive than Glucosamine but worth it. Plus it makes your skin look younger...not a bad thing!

3) Zyflamend by Country Life - Natural mix of ingredients for joints, tendons, and connecting tissue. I really noticed a difference when I added this one.

4) Flax Seed Oil and Fish Oil - Great source of Omega 3's too.

I also take men's multivitamins and protein supplements for general health.

To save money, I buy the large containers and take the minimum suggested dosages. If you don't know where to get them, here's a link to where I get mine:

www.vitamin-discounts.com

Ramon
09-15-2011, 06:23 AM
Correction to my last post:
Zyflamend is by New Chapter.

Power Player
09-15-2011, 06:26 AM
I've always thought beer was a good joint supplement.

Particularly Miller Lite for me. It has a soothing trait to it. Must be the quality of the aluminum cans.

In all seriousness, I take fish oil, but have chronic tendinitis in my wrist and would love to know what else helps with this.

Ramon
09-15-2011, 06:54 AM
Particularly Miller Lite for me. It has a soothing trait to it. Must be the quality of the aluminum cans.

In all seriousness, I take fish oil, but have chronic tendinitis in my wrist and would love to know what else helps with this.

You should try Zyflamend. It not only works on joints, it works on connective tissue and inflammation.

http://www.naturalnews.com/023680_Zyflamend_New_Chapter.html

http://www.vitamin-discounts.com/products/new-chapter-zyflamend-60sg-900606/

I found the best results using a full mix of supplements that I listed in my previous post. Hyaluronic Acid seems to be very effective also.

Power Player
09-15-2011, 07:04 AM
Cool..well I will start with the Zyflamend..hard to find a negative review on it. It would be much better than taking AIs.

I have 120 coming..thanks.

Champs990411
09-15-2011, 08:19 AM
Was already taking Gluc and MSM off and on. Just placed an order for Flex-a-min, Flax Seeds, Zyflamend, and Hya Acid.

We are discussing these for joints, obv. Will they help with achy Achilles and elbow tendons?

Fedace
09-15-2011, 08:22 AM
yes, Resveratrol and Glucosamine works awsome

Champs990411
09-15-2011, 08:28 AM
I'm actually in this camp regarding Resveretrol. My elbow and Achilles really went next level bad when I was taking it.

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/46810-had-to-discontinue-resveratrol-because-it-inhibits-healing/

Kevin T
09-15-2011, 08:41 AM
Particularly Miller Lite for me. It has a soothing trait to it. Must be the quality of the aluminum cans.

In all seriousness, I take fish oil, but have chronic tendinitis in my wrist and would love to know what else helps with this.

Gotta go with the good stuff, hoppy and dark beers:

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/02/08/research.reveals.link.between.beer.and.bone.health

My bones are strong like iron. :)

Ramon
09-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Was already taking Gluc and MSM off and on. Just placed an order for Flex-a-min, Flax Seeds, Zyflamend, and Hya Acid.

We are discussing these for joints, obv. Will they help with achy Achilles and elbow tendons?

Your joint supplements sound a lot like mine. My experience when I took just Gluc/Chon was good until I went back to playing tennis 6 months ago. My problems were in my knees, elbows, and wrists. After 2 weeks of adding Hya Acid and Zyflamend to my diet, I noticed I could do heavier squats in the gym without feeling it the next day, then a week later I noticed an improvement in my tennis elbow. It's not back 100%, but at 46 playing 4.5 level tennis with hard and heavy topspin, it's tough to imagine that I'll ever feel the same as a high schooler. To me the improvement was worth the investment.