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swilburn
05-31-2004, 05:55 PM
I am looking into buying a stringer. After looking at different brands, there are two types of mounting systems. A inside only, like Laserfibre and Silent Partner, or the six point system of Gamma, Alpha, that uses outside brackets.

Is there enough difference to choose one over the other? I am leaning toward the Laserfibre but would like to save money if the other system is just as secure. Is the inside mount easier to work the strings due to less clutter on the outside?

Has anyone used the Ms200 eco? What are your impressions?

PHSTennis
05-31-2004, 08:24 PM
Inside only ... thats 2 point mounting? 6 point is better 2 point can get mess you your racquet.. I charge only 5-8 bucks for stringing some idiots go pay like 7 for some crappy machine I use an Alpha DC-Plus... sucks for them... ;)

Deuce
05-31-2004, 09:12 PM
No - he's referring to the 5/6 point inside mounting of LaserFibre, and the 6 point inside mounting of Silent Partner.

Personally, I don't think inside or outside, or the number of points makes a difference in 95% of string jobs. Proof of this is that the Prince/Ektelon Neos 1000 machines - which has long been highly regarded as the industry standard for its quality - has a 'mere' 2 point mounting system.

swilburn
05-31-2004, 10:09 PM
Thanks Deuce, that's what I was getting at. After reading several post on this board, sounds like the stringer is the important ingredient. Just seems like some of the new designs are going to the inside ( 4,5 or 6) support mounts ( Laserfibre). Hoping to hear from some of the years of experience on this board if it is just marketing hype or if there is a difference. I really like the looks of the Laserfibre MS200tt, just expensive! Really like their tensioning system!
The Alpha's and Gamma's are easier to afford, hince the original question on the different mount systems.

David Pavlich
06-01-2004, 06:09 PM
Deuce is right. There has probably been more racquets strung successfully on a Neos/Ektelon than any other single stringing machine.

The only exceptions come when doing certain racquets such as the Head iS10 or 12. Head recommends lowering the max tension 4 pounds if not using a 6 point mounting system.

The most critical mount is at 6 and 12 o'clock, regardless of the number of mounting points. The Neos does a very good job of distributing the stress over a fairly wide area.

David

topspin
06-03-2004, 01:53 AM
The trend is towards inside mounts because it is an active system that prevents distortion from starting. The inside mounts at 6 and 12 are very important because the big stresses are applied when tensioning those first few center mains. The Laserfibre mouting system addresses this and that's why it was designed that way. It is very much regarded by experienced stringers on this board as the safest mounting system available. It will however take more time to mount a racquet. If you're looking to break stringing speed records, look elsewhere. If you are not rushed and want to make sure your racquets are safe-as-can-be, get a Laserfibre.

Good stringers (neos and even babolat) all use inside mounts at 6 and 12. The babolat just used outside mounts everywhere else and that's where distortion can occur.

I have the ms200tt and love it, worth every penny. I never fear wearing out my racquets by stringing them often. The racquets maintain their shape and you don't hear the cracking sounds of graphite tearing apart like you do on other machines.

Lasefibre has a solid reputation. In general with stringing machines, you get what you pay for.

After about 110 stringjobs, I've more than paid for my ms200tt. Do the math and see how long it will take before you pay off your machine with the savings by not having to pay a stringer and the hassle of driving to and from the store to get it done.

swilburn
06-03-2004, 03:05 AM
Topspin, thanks for the post. I am really looking hard at the laserfibre stringer. Do you feel the extra money for the ms200tt is worth it over the ms200eco. Seems the big difference is the position lock for the tensioning arm.

Gaines Hillix
06-03-2004, 11:37 AM
swilburn, I agree with Deuce and David that a good two point mounting system is all that is required. However, I think that a multi-point system is even more secure. I have an Alpha Apex, which has a 6-point suspension system and I use the green Prince frame adapters between the posts and frame at 6/12. These spread the load on these points over a much wider area than the standard "billiards." I believe that this kind of setup provides excellent access to the frame while improving support to the head, throat, sides and shoulders of the frame. I have never had any frame distortion or problems removing the frame from the mount with this setup.

swilburn
06-03-2004, 01:36 PM
Gaines, is there a wb site that sells the adapter you mentioned? Does the one year membership to the USRSA that is included with the Alpha 4000 have the stringing guide book you mentioned in a earlier post?

Thanks for your time.

Gaines Hillix
06-03-2004, 03:07 PM
swilburn, if you join the USRSA, they have the Prince frame adapters. I am sure Prince also has them. Yes, the stringers guide and access to their website content are included with the USRSA membership.

topspin
06-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Swilburn, I never tried the eco models, but if you string a few racquets a month, your machine will pay for itself pretty quickly. I know that the tensioner is a bit more work on the eco and that you have a choice of flying or fixed clamps. At the very least, I would take something with fixec clamps over flying clamps. The decision depends on how much stringing you do. Feel free to call Tim Sullivan at Laserfibre and he will give you all the info you need to make your decision.

Remember that all machines will get the job done one way or another. The difference in price is there for a reason too though. The less expensive machines obviously have to cut cost one way or another to make profit. So it might mean that the materials are not as strong and so on. In the end all machines will help you to string a racquet.

swilburn
06-05-2004, 06:35 PM
Thanks topspin, I talked to Tim, and we talked about the eco and the tt model. Both are well made, but the ms200tt is made for faster stringing jobs. If I buy a Laserfibre it will be a TT model. I learned to buy high, and you won't regret the investment.

topspin
06-06-2004, 11:15 AM
YW swilburn. If you do get it, feel free to email or post questions about the machine.

waterpro
06-06-2004, 12:12 PM
I just got my ms200TT. Haven't had a chance to string a racket with it yet, but I am eagerly waiting for my strings to pop in my rackets so I can give it a try. I am holding off on my full review until I have had a chance to string on it. Once I do I'll post my findings. In any case, my old stringer was an Alpha Pioneer III(fixed clamp with 6 point mounting- 2 interior at 6 and 12, and 4 outside at 10,2,4, and 8 ). The MS200TT has 5 points all inside. 11, 12, 1, 5, and 7. All the numbers if you haven't guessed refer to clock face positions. Even though my racket still has strings in it I decided to mount it to see if I liked it better than the Alpha Pioneer III. Here is what I noticed. I like the inside mounting alot better than the outside mounting. Although I like the position of the mounts better on my Alpha Pioneer III. I like the fact that the mounts are more spread out on the Alpha Pioneer III where I feel that the MS200TT are too close together. I wish Laserfibre had done a 10, 12, 2, 4, and 8 instead of a 11, 12,1,5,and 7. Don't get me wrong though, I am sure there is nothing to worry about since there are tons of people on the boards that own this machine who have never had problems, it's just that I think I would be more at peice knowing that they were spread out more instead of lumped together. Also I should add. Many people say the mounting takes longer on the MS200TT than other machines. It might just be me, but I find it faster and easier on the MS200TT than the Alpah Pioneer III. I hated haveing to manually adjust all 4 of the exterior mounts on the Alpha Pioneer. Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out there before my full review is posted since this thread is talking about mounting.

mr. stevo
06-06-2004, 04:36 PM
waterpro, did you get your ms200 from PRINCE on the wanted forums?

swilburn
06-07-2004, 04:26 PM
Waterpro, thanks for the great feedback! Looking forward to hearing the full review.

waterpro
06-08-2004, 12:33 PM
I forgot to say this in my last post, but figured it should be said.......I talked to Tim Sullivan a while ago about inside vs outside mounting for a while and this is the analogy he gave me. It makes alot of sense if you think about it.....

"Let's say you're in a car and about to be sandwiched by two other cars.. one coming directly at you head on and the other simultaneously coming at you directly from the rear (just like the forces pulling the head to the throat of the racket when stringing the mains). Where are you praying that your car maker put the supports? Steel rods running from front to back? Or a giant "C" clamp pressing in from the outside of your doors? If you are counting on the giant "C" clamp to keep your car from crushing in from the front and rear.. well, it's been nice knowing ya! We're the steel rods that support from the inside preventing the crushing forces from collapsing the frame. The 6-point outside mounting is the big "C" clamp."

I think this is a good analogy of what happens.

In any case though with that being said, my Alpha Pioneer III had outside supports and I never had a problem with them. Also before I got the Alpha Pioneer III, the folks at Tennis Warehouse (yes, I am lucky enough to work 1 mile from them) used to string my rackets on a Prince Neos. Nothing ill happened on either one of them. So I agree with the posts above...the stringer has more to do with safty than the mounting system. Although the system can help lower the probability of something happening even further.

So I guess from my experience, if you have the $$$ I would get the laserfibre for the inside mounting to lower the probability of something happening.

Swilburn,
I am going to be posting pics and a head to head review of the Alpha Pioneer III vs the MS200TT this weekend. I will pick apart each major category and report what I like/don't like about each one. In the past I have also used a ATS SSII and have watched the people at TW string on a Prince Neos so I will make references to these two machines as well. Like I said above, I haven't actually strung a racket on the MS200TT yet, proabaly tonight or tomorrow, but just in the little things I have noticed by looking at the two, I would pick the MS200TT hand down over the Alpha Pioneer III and the Prince Neos. Mind you this is not even taking into consideration the tensioning information. This is just based on the clamping and mounting systems. I expect the tensioning on the MS200TT (in terms of ease and accuracy) to be better than both in their own ways. I think it will have the ease of use of the Prince Neos and the accuracy (contant pull) of the Alpha Pioneer III. This is only speculation. I'll know for sure tonight or tomorrow. If you need to make a decision before this weekend, shoot me an email and I'll give you my phone number and we can talk.

swilburn
06-08-2004, 05:39 PM
Waterpro, Thanks, not in a hurry to decide, I made too many mistakes that way! I am learning to chew on it for awhile.

Gaines Hillix
06-09-2004, 09:33 AM
All of the 6-point systems I have seen are a combination of inside and outside mounting. I don't think the analogy of a giant C-clamp is accurate. On my machine, there are posts(called billiards in the industry) at throat and tip of the racquet that support it on the inside of the frame. I also use load spreaders or what are sometimes called frame adaters between the post and the frame. This spreads the load over at least an inch of the frame. On the outside are four(4) frame supports at the upper and lower shoulders of the racquet. When the mains are tensioned there is tremedous pressure placed on the frame in the axis from the head to throat. Let's call this the Y axis. When tension is applied on the mains the racqeut wants to get shorter and wider. With the 6-point system on my machine this can't happen. When the crosses(the X axis) are tensioned, pressure is actually equalized between the Y and X axis by the time the job is complete. If it wasn't, the frame wouldn't release from the mounts! Of course, one needs to use proper technique and not over tighten the mounts. IMO, a good 6-point system with frame adapters at 6/12 is just as good as an all inside mounting system.

SW Stringer
06-09-2004, 11:04 AM
The empirical evidence is sitting there right in front of our faces!! Two point mounting systems are all that is required to safely string rackets. IE - hundreds of thousand upon hundreds of thousands and even MILLIONS upon millions of rackets have been strung with the Prince Neos two point mount. Racket designers use a two point mount stringer as one of their set of design "limits". The hoop must pass the stringing test or its' not strong enough and back to the drawing board. Now the "liberal arts" majors who populate the advertising and marketing staffs of most companies need to continually add "features" to their products to "improve" them and differentiate their product so you'll buy them. So we get gobs of colors to choose from, tool trays, drawers, fancy inside, and outside 4 point, five point, six point mounts who knows what's next, 8 point, 10 point mounts? The job of marketing, of which they aparently are doing a great job, is to first create a want in the customers mind with their product differentiation and then make them (the customers) feel satisfied when they have purchased the product. All these fancy features - colors, drawers, multi-point mounting systems, and my favorite - TRUE Constant Tension , are merely the KY factor. They are the lubricant that enables the vendor to deftly insert and withdraw his tentacles from your wallet giving both you and he the maximum pleasure for your money. It's a great system!

!Tym
06-11-2004, 06:33 PM
Look, all mounting systems are sufficient for the most part too prevent distortion, but I prefer inside mounting. In my opinion, it puts less stress on the frame. With six point mounting, while the shape does return, the racket when it expands on the main strings has no choice but to crush into the side mounting points/arms...I mean think about it. The mounting points are adjusted to contact the frame when stringing the mains; strining the mains causes the racket to get wider. Those outside side mounting points aren't moving, and the racket is still in contact with them; it's just that they're contacting them with a whole lot more pressure now. I mean would you want your finger in between that racket and the mounting arms when that expansion begins to occur? I know I wouldn't.

There is evidence of how this phenomenon is not a good thing, and why you must be careful not to overtighten the support arms on a 6-point machine. If you overtighten slightly, the racket can get struck...even on the vaunted Babolat Star III. Also, you can literally hear micro cracking in the graphite as you string if you overtighten as well. The sound is unmistakable; but it's how significant of a difference do you think this actually makes over the long haul?

Laserfibre's selling point is that pretty much any mounting system will return the racket back to its original shape. In their opinion, however, they're mounting system puts the racket through less trauma in the process; and hence is a smarter methodology to mounting rackets. This according to them results in a racket that fatigues less quickly (i.e. if you string a racket a lot, overtime the racket goes "dead" because the graphite weakens through microcracks). Now many will say MAY help extend the life of your racket...of course, most won't keep or string their racket enough times for it to go "dead" anyway, so it's really a moot point.

Of course, you don't have to believe Laserfibre's marketing; but I do.

I like six pointing mounting for its convenience and speed and would not rule it out if purchasing a new machine because of that, BUT I would still prefer to have my personal rackets strung on a Laserfibre mounting system if given the choice.

I believe JRW said the same thing, strings on a Babolat Star III at work, but prefers to string his personal rackets on his Laserfibre MS200TT, because he feels its better for his rackets.

But, ultimately, most any mounting system is "good enough."

The whole issue of racket fatigue due to excessive restringing is a moot point for most. Certainly, I usually sell my rackets before they get to that point, but I'm an anomaly on this board. I get bored of using the same racket for a long time. To me, change is the spice of life.

David Pavlich
06-11-2004, 07:32 PM
I've strung around 1800 or so frames on the Silent Partner DG and the Aria (both use the same mounting system which is a six point similar to Babolat, Alpha, etc). It uses a "W" adapter for the 6 and 12 o'clock mounts to distribute the load, which is similar to what Gaines mentioned.

I have had one frame crack, which is a Prince More Power 1150. I changed the way I string it and since haven't had a problem.

There is one frame that always creaks and groans and that's a Wilson Sledge Hammer 2.0. Scary thing, that one.

I haven't had a frame get stuck on this mount and I don't have the mini-cracking sound, save for the SH mentioned above.

If the 6 point system wasn't good, I'm sure Babolat would use something else on it's Sensor or Sensor Expert.

David

!Tym
06-11-2004, 11:26 PM
I'm not saying it's not good. I like six point mounting, but mainly because it's faster and more convenient if you have the single knob adjustment...my main grip with the Laserfibre one is that if you string a lot of rackets in a row you can develop a blister here and there. The Babolat machines were designed in mind for high volume stringers; and if I were doing that more often, I would definitely prefer six point mounting.

Furthermore, over the years, the six point mounting design has become engrained in people's minds as the standard. It still doesn't mean that other designs aren't as good, just in a different way. It's like with the Sega Master system vs. the original Nintendo. Both systems were comparable, but the Sega Master system was definitely just a slight notch above in terms of performance power...but, of course, it was Nintendo that went onto become legendary. And what about comparing 8-track tapes to casette tapes? 8-track=better quality...but who won out? To me, it's a similar argument with the difference between 6-point methodology and inside-mounting methodology. 6 point is more convenient and popular and once public opinion is set it's hard to fight, inside mounting is "technically" better...but does anyone really care enough to make a difference? No, not really.

But anyway, my point is that I've never cracked a racket on a Laserfibre, or come up with a slightly shorter racket, or heard any micro cracking sound. I've had all of these things happen to me when I overtightened on the outside mounting arms; but I was experimenting to see the effects the mounting arms have. Obviously, a six point mounting system works well as long as you don't overtighten...still, the Laserfibre works smarter in my opinion. I just feel from having used both extensively, that the Laserfibre mounting methodolgy is better for the frame. How much is debatable, if it's enough to even really make a tangible difference to the player is also VERY debatable. In my opinion, it does NOT really make a difference that the player will be able to notice; so, in reality, it's a moot point. BUT, still in my head at least, it does make a slight difference...as in, I slightly prefer the Laserfibre mounting system all factors considered; but ultimately, it's really not a big deal.

I mean after all, both the Sega Master System and the Nintendo Entertainment System were "good enough." It's ultimately about which one you choose. Obviously, virtually everyone chose the Nintendo...just because. BUT, maybe some more would have chosen the Sega Master system if they were more aware of it. To me, it's the same with Laserfibre's mounting system. More people are familiar with six point mounting. As they say, why fix what ain't broke...AND what still sells like hot cakes? And results in brand and system loyalty? As Tim Sullivan likes to say, "Stringers are creatures of habit." It's often not a case of which one is better necessarily, but rather what you get used to.

swilburn
06-12-2004, 02:48 AM
!Tym
Thanks for the post, experience always counts!

pennc94
03-07-2007, 09:00 AM
swilburn, if you join the USRSA, they have the Prince frame adapters. I am sure Prince also has them. Yes, the stringers guide and access to their website content are included with the USRSA membership.

Gaines, are these "green Prince H load spreaders" still needed/available? What if you are not a USRSA member?