critique my serve

[munk3y]

* EDIT * NEW LINK

so, after playing tennis for one year and indulging myself in every advice i could find (including all the helpful links in this forum), im somewhat happy of my serve.
I just got a small video of my serve just to test it. I hope this is enough

http://members.optusnet.com.au/troll9999/MOV05541.mov

any suggestions and tips for my serve?

[Marius_Hancu]

good that you changed servers.

[munk3y]

----
*edit* see first post

[bluegrasser]

Looks good to me, but then again I'm a 4.0.

[Marius_Hancu]

OK, now I see it.

You need to make an important correction: your right elbow gets too low and close to the trunk in the trophy position. This is how it was served 20 yrs ago. The angle between the upper arm and the body should be something like 110 degrees, not less than 90, as you're showing.

Check Sampras clips in the Sticky (topmost thread here) for a good model on that, as you seem to have a Sampras/Federer inspired motion (more Federer, I'd guess).

Knees should flex more, more Rocking Motion, check the Sticky. Also more hip stretch, and torso rotation.

But you have some motion going, not bad after a year.

[munk3y]

OK, now I see it.

You need to make an important correction: your right elbow gets too low and close to the trunk in the trophy position. This is how it was served 20 yrs ago. The angle between the upper arm and the body should be something like 110 degrees, not less than 90, as you're showing.

Check Sampras clips in the Sticky (topmost thread here) for a good model on that, as you seem to have a Sampras/Federer inspired motion (more Federer, I'd guess).

Knees should flex more, more Rocking Motion, check the Sticky. Also more hip stretch, and torso rotation.

But you have some motion going, not bad after a year.

thanx for replying :D

marius, what do you mean by my right elbow gets too low in the trophy position? How does this affect my serve?
I recorded a different video the previous day with my phone. The quality is shocking but it might help you in...helping me.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/troll9999/MOV00001.mov
It was recorded from behind so the different angle may help

[Marius_Hancu]

marius, what do you mean by my right elbow gets too low in the trophy position? How does this affect my serve?

read again in full my answer. it's there.

check Sampras.
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras01.swf
use the slider on the left to slow-motion.

think.

less power, this is how it affects.
the power comes a lot from the upper arm rotation,
and when the upper arm is crowding the torso during trophy, that's more difficult.

2nd pic is not wortwhile posting, sorry.

[munk3y]

ahh i see what you mean
thanx for the advice :) i'll go improve on that

[kevhen]

Looks pretty good, at least 4.0 level maybe 4.5 if your placement and consistency are good too. Did you miss the second one since you seem a little upset after that one? Don't let one missed serve get you down! You seemed to rush the second serve and tossed a little lower maybe because you wanted a shorter movie clip. Good motion and pretty fluid swing.

[munk3y]

Looks pretty good, at least 4.0 level maybe 4.5 if your placement and consistency are good too. Did you miss the second one since you seem a little upset after that one? Don't let one missed serve get you down! You seemed to rush the second serve and tossed a little lower maybe because you wanted a shorter movie clip. Good motion and pretty fluid swing.

Yeah i did miss the 2nd serve lol, you sure have good eyes. My serve is generally consistent (normally around 8/10) and placement isnt bad either. Although i do have troubles serving out wide in the ad court and down the T in the deuce court but im improving on that.

[kumat63]

I think you have a good basic motion, nice fluid delivery. I think your arm gets into a good and loaded position behind your head and moves through the ball with good pace. What is costing you power is that you shift your weight way too much laterally into the court which keeps you from really building a nice coil against a firm back leg.

I think you are tossing the ball too far into the court. Try moving your toss so that it would land just barely in front of your left foot if you let it drop, instead of a couple feet into the court. Tossing the ball closer to your body, and just a little bit higher would give you time to bend your knees more, really load up on your back leg and spring straight up into the ball instead of laterally into the court. Think of exploding up into the ball right over your head instead of jumping into the court for a ball 3 feet in front of you. Jumping so far into the court is costing you power and consistency. Just my $.02

[Kaptain Karl]

I'm suspicious you're foot-faulting ... and probably frequently.

Before you all ROLLEYES about this, keep reading. Your front foot ... wanders. I'm a big believer in keeping a stable base from which to work. If you are sliding your *front* foot all around during your serve, your consistency will be negatively affected.

Other than that, I'm seeing a pretty good motion. (Did you "hurry" the second serve to preserve film time...?)

- KK

[Kaptain Karl]

I just reviewed the second clip -- from your phone. Good to see the angle from behind....

It's dark and small, so I cannot pick up on the little details, but I notice your body falls *away* from the direction you are serving. This suggests your toss is too far left of your target ... or it might be that (previously identified) shakey base which is causing the problem. I'd like to have seen your body falling into the court in the same general direction of your serve....

- KK

[Marius_Hancu]

I think you are tossing the ball too far into the court. Try moving your toss so that it would land just barely in front of your left foot if you let it drop, instead of a couple feet into the court. Tossing the ball closer to your body, and just a little bit higher would give you time to bend your knees more, really load up on your back leg and spring straight up into the ball instead of laterally into the court. Think of exploding up into the ball right over your head instead of jumping into the court for a ball 3 feet in front of you. Jumping so far into the court is costing you power and consistency. Just my $.02

Don't agree with this advice, sorry.

This is what lots of amateurs are doing and it's simply wrong, it damages their shoulders too. Tossing into the court let's you use more of the inertia of the racquet.

He should keep what he has OK, and this is proper.

[FiveO]

munk3y,

Based on the first clip I see the same things Marius does:

1- elbow too low in relation to the shoulder line. You want your upper hitting arm to at least form a straight line extension of your shoulder line if not slightly above. That straight shoulder-upper arm line is then angled up to nearly a vertical line, toss shoulder high, at the completion of the toss and when fully loaded in the trophy position.

2- left hip should slide further to it's furthest point forward of the baseline just pre-launch. The hip slide will force a greater percentage of you weight onto the left (forward) foot prior to launch which right now seems to be a very two footed launch. The hip slide will also augment the shoulder-upper hitting arm line being angled up toss shoulder high.

3- I also disagree with the suggestion to move the toss back, more toward the baseline.

4- As KK suggested in the video shot from behind it is evident that your toss is too far toward the left sideline and back over your head. It's clear on the second video clip and on the first shot from the side. In the second clip your weight and steps are clearly moving toward the left net post while serving to the ad court. In the first clip your follow through comes so far left it pulls your body down and across to that left side. Move your toss more toward the right sideline so that you consistently make contact on a imaginary line drawn from inside you hitting shoulder straight toward the net instead of back over your head.

5- Your longish follow-through also could be symptomatic of reaching max speed in the forward swing of the serve after contact. Do a "whoosh" check without a ball, go through the motion, toss, head up, see the blur of the racquet as you swing up and out toward contact and listen for the whoosh. Make sure the loudest part of the whoosh occurs thru contact and not after.

[JaisBane]

I agree with everything above, but I want to add one last thing. Your left arm stays in front of your body too long. If you watch the clip of sampras, you'll notice that his left arm begins to go back and away from the body once contact is made and is completely clear of the body before his front foot even touches the ground. Your arm stays in front of your body long after contact and doesn't even begin to go back until just before you land. This causes over-rotation and, along with your toss position, is what causes you to be unbalanced and move away from your serve. I used to have this problem and the solution can be as simple as trying to follow your serve to net. First practice it without a ball, then practice it again with a toss that is more inline with your shoulder. If you're still unbalanced after moving the toss and practicing moving forward, then you should focus on pulling that left elbow back after contact is made.

Oh, and did your racket hit the ground after that first serve from the side perspective? You might want to try and guide the racket across your waist and to your left hand, it'll keep you from banging your shin and scratching up your frame. I actually cracked a frame once doing the same thing. I couldn't see the crack, but the frame would rattle everytime I hit a ball and it played terribly afterwards. Head replaced it for free, though, so it turned out all right in the end.

[deluxe]

OK, now I see it.

You need to make an important correction: your right elbow gets too low and close to the trunk in the trophy position. This is how it was served 20 yrs ago. The angle between the upper arm and the body should be something like 110 degrees, not less than 90, as you're showing.

This has come as a bit of a revelation to me. I do the same thing on my serve. When you said 20yrs ago, I thought of J.Mac and checked out the videos on tennisplayer.net. Both Mac & Lendl had <90 in the "Winning Edge" video from ~20 yrs ago, and Mac clearly has <90 today.

[Marius_Hancu]

This has come as a bit of a revelation to me. I do the same thing on my serve. When you said 20yrs ago, I thought of J.Mac and checked out the videos on tennisplayer.net. Both Mac & Lendl had <90 in the "Winning Edge" video from ~20 yrs ago, and Mac clearly has <90 today.

yes, you're correct.
things change.

[munk3y]

wow so many things wrong with my serve. i'll take all your advices and practice and try to incorporate it into my service. I do find it hard to go straight foreward after a serve. I'll work on that.

Thanks everyone for replying. Your advice is greatly appreciated!

[AngeloDS]

Your serve looks great, I see you let your elbow lead which allows your forearm to whip, which leads to increased racquet speed -- that is superb.

If you want to increase the speed of your serves, I'd work on that aspect. Incresaing the whip action, to increase the racquet speed. You can do that by throwing the racquet back more and throwing your elbow more. It should naturally whip.

[Klippy]

Your leg bend is really good. :D The whole service motion is very impressive for playing for a year.

[munk3y]

I'm suspicious you're foot-faulting ... and probably frequently.

Before you all ROLLEYES about this, keep reading. Your front foot ... wanders. I'm a big believer in keeping a stable base from which to work. If you are sliding your *front* foot all around during your serve, your consistency will be negatively affected.

Other than that, I'm seeing a pretty good motion. (Did you "hurry" the second serve to preserve film time...?)

- KK

i dont really notice what my front foot does during my serve. I only know that i put most of my weight on it when im leaning into the court.
i really dont feel like it moves around but i'll try to be conscience about it and see what happens.

as for hurrying, i was having a bad day that day so maybe that was why hehe.