I got totally crushed last night...

[Galactus]

...playing against a guy who used to play for the UK under18's team (he's now 28 ).

Played for an hour: me using a Prostaff Original 6.0 at 375g, him with a Slazenger Pro X-1 at 320g.

I lost 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 in just one hour and I probably won 10 points the entire match.

Whatever I did he had an answer for everything. Unless I caught a 1st serve right, hit the corners or down the 'T' and came to the net, he either passed me with ripping forehands or backhands or simply out-gunned me from the baseline.

Good learning curve though. :mrgreen:

[Jon Hampton]

Ah, the dreaded triple bagel. Happens to everyone at least once. Sounds like this guy was at least 1.0 full NTRP point above you. I remember playing in a ladder match a year and a half ago. At that time I was like a weak 4.0, just realizing that I was better than an average 3.5. Anyway, I thought "hey, I have a chance against anyone...even a 5.0 player I could maybe win 1 or 2 games off of". Well, this guy I played. He was at least a 5.0, maybe a 5.5. During the warmup, he hit well and so did I, so no worries, right?

He made 3 errors the ENTIRE MATCH. I was beaten 6-0, 6-0. I bet you're saying, "well he just played really consistent", but actually I made less than 10 unforced errors a set. He hit close to 60 winners during the match. He could generate winners from everywhere, it was insane.

[kevhen]

Yep, I have played those guys too where I am not making any errors but still not winning any points as they move the ball around and crank it up when they need (or want) to. You have to play them a bit more aggressively to try to keep them a little off balance and not as in total control of the point and you just have to be happy with one or two games per set. It's cool to play 5.0+ players and see just what it takes to get to that level.

[munk3y]

ahh im not alone anymore. okay maybe my match wasnt as bad. Each time i play this same person, he always beats me very badly, if not a bagel. The first match we played i lost 6-3 7-6 6-2, then a month later we played again and god knows what happened to him, i lost 6-2 6-1 6-0. He was hitting impossible angles from everywhere. It was like as if the ball changed direction in mid air, like a 90 degree turn or something. Then i played him again a week ago, just a 1 set match. :'( lost 6-0.
Then again, he's been playing 3 more years than me. But i do have mental breakdowns haha

[Galactus]

Ah, the dreaded triple bagel. Happens to everyone at least once. Sounds like this guy was at least 1.0 full NTRP point above you. I remember playing in a ladder match a year and a half ago. At that time I was like a weak 4.0, just realizing that I was better than an average 3.5. Anyway, I thought "hey, I have a chance against anyone...even a 5.0 player I could maybe win 1 or 2 games off of". Well, this guy I played. He was at least a 5.0, maybe a 5.5. During the warmup, he hit well and so did I, so no worries, right?
He made 3 errors the ENTIRE MATCH. I was beaten 6-0, 6-0. I bet you're saying, "well he just played really consistent", but actually I made less than 10 unforced errors a set. He hit close to 60 winners during the match. He could generate winners from everywhere, it was insane.
1 - I'd say a full 2 NTRP points above me...!

2 - I hear you about the lack of errors....I recall NO double-faults, probably 2 into the net and maybe 3 or 4 hit wide or long...apart from that, he pretty much did as he liked.

Yep, I have played those guys too where I am not making any errors but still not winning any points as they move the ball around and crank it up when they need (or want) to. You have to play them a bit more aggressively to try to keep them a little off balance and not as in total control of the point and you just have to be happy with one or two games per set. It's cool to play 5.0+ players and see just what it takes to get to that level.
What I did in the 3rd set was too totally relax - when i did this, my service game improved dramatically. That's when my serve started to trouble him....somewhat. Well, i say 'trouble' him but I soon found out that when I stayed on the baseline, he batted the ball back deep - when I came to the net off a 1st serve, he passed me with ease!!
He also said afterwards that there was no way he was going to go easy on me, as he knew full well that letting an opponent in - no matter how small the gap, could make the difference.

Anyway, i spoke to this guy today and he filled me in on his past: played for Uk under 25's and beat the 2nd and 3rd seeds....and then reeled off the rated guys in the UK he'd practised with: Rusedski, Henman, Cowan, Bailey....he even had a 10-minute 'knock about' with Sampras way back in 1992/93 at Queens Club.

Different world.

[atatu]

I'd like to recruit this guy for my 4.5 USTA team.....

[Marius_Hancu]

Anyway, i spoke to this guy today and he filled me in on his past: played for Uk under 25's and beat the 2nd and 3rd seeds....and then reeled off the rated guys in the UK he'd practised with: Rusedski, Henman, Cowan, Bailey....he even had a 10-minute 'knock about' with Sampras way back in 1992/93 at Queens Club.

Different world.

And you didn't _pay_ to play with him?
Lucky:-)

If you have money to spend and he's interested, perhaps you entice him to just rally with you for the time being. It'll help you a lot, will make you react much faster, etc.

Or you can do the same with any futures level guy you find around there which needs some money.

[Galactus]

And you didn't _pay_ to play with him?
Lucky:-)

If you have money to spend and he's interested, perhaps you entice him to just rally with you for the time being. It'll help you a lot, will make you react much faster, etc.

Or you can do the same with any futures level guy you find around there which needs some money.
Not at all - we split the cost of the court!
Anyway, the thing is, he's 34 now and I think had a few injuries when he was younger that put him out for a while....so, basically, he was 'Tennis 24/7' back in the day, but now he just enjoys playing socially, work, family commitments, etc

[Marius_Hancu]

he's 34 now and I think had a few injuries when he was younger that put him out for a while....so, basically, he was 'Tennis 24/7' back in the day, but now he just enjoys playing socially, work, family commitments, etc

yes, same generation with Greg ...
and yes, clearly a former pro ... this never leaves one ...

[Galactus]

yes, same generation with Greg ...
and yes, clearly a former pro ... this never leaves one ...
Marius, I don't think this guy I played the other night ever played at a pro-level himself....but he did practice on-court with pros of that day...this will be circa 1992.
I don't think he ever exceeded the heights of playing for the junior national team.....but, the talent is there for sure.

However, he maybe moving out of the area in early 2006, so I have to catch him whenever I can for some more sessions...

[Clayplay]

...playing against a guy who used to play for the UK under18's team (he's now 28 ).

Played for an hour: me using a Prostaff Original 6.0 at 375g, him with a Slazenger Pro X-1 at 320g.

I lost 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 in just one hour and I probably won 10 points the entire match.

Whatever I did he had an answer for everything. Unless I caught a 1st serve right, hit the corners or down the 'T' and came to the net, he either passed me with ripping forehands or backhands or simply out-gunned me from the baseline.

Good learning curve though. :mrgreen:

that person sounds pro!!
man, i got beaten 6-0 6-0 today. i was playing alright but my serve..............., i had so many double faults :( i had to play centre court too!! oh well, at least my performance looked good :cool:

[Galactus]

that person sounds pro!!
man, i got beaten 6-0 6-0 today. i was playing alright but my serve..............., i had so many double faults :( i had to play centre court too!! oh well, at least my performance looked good :cool:
Sounds pro - but isn't....not by a long way (he says).
Don't forget, he's now mid-30s, hasn't played at a particularly top-level for some years...and anyway, I feel I'm a 3.5 at very best.
The 6-0, 6-0 score - which also happened to me in 3 sets, I double-faulted quite a bit in those first 15 games as I was totally tense.
He told me later that as soon as I relaxed and tried serving 75% of what I usually do, my 1st-serve perfectly fine and was at least 'in the point', so to speak.
Oh and another thing, I was really hitting some serves flush and asked him after the game at what speed he thought they were travelling at, he unintentionally burst my bubble and replied, 'oh, I'd say about 75-80mph, one or two were faster' Erk. :(
He mentioned that I'd probably be able get another 20mph off using a more modern and larger-framed racquet than my Prostaff 6.0 85".

[vin]

he unintentionally burst my bubble and replied, 'oh, I'd say about 75-80mph, one or two were faster' Erk

He mentioned that I'd probably be able get another 20mph off using a more modern and larger-framed racquet than my Prostaff 6.0 85".

The extra 20 mph sounds questionable. Do you think Roddick would lose 20 mph if he ditched his PD for a PS 85? I don't, especially since Sampras and Philippoussis served about as hard with a wood racket as they could with their graphite rackets. This was determined in a study and the article is on the internet somewhere. Maybe espn.com or tennis.com.

Besides, don't sweat the speed so much. If you really want more pace, develop it in a way so that you're hitting harder while still swinging at 75-80% because that will be easier to reproduce time and time again. Swinging as hard as you can is not nearly as reproducable and your double faults are an indication of that. I've learned this the hard way and it took me 2 years to really embrace it! I don't get as many comments about how big my serve and groundstrokes are lately, but I'm winning more matches. :) Winning matches with raw power is probably the most difficult and unreliable way to do it. Just look at the power players on tour, most of them are streaky.

[ohplease]

I'd like to recruit this guy for my 4.5 USTA team.....

Haha. Awesome. And in USTA bizarro rating world, no one would blink an eye.

[livthemoment]

[QUOTE=vin]The extra 20 mph sounds questionable. Do you think Roddick would lose 20 mph if he ditched his PD for a PS 85? I don't, especially since Sampras and Philippoussis served about as hard with a wood racket as they could with their graphite rackets. This was determined in a study and the article is on the internet somewhere. Maybe espn.com or tennis.com.
QUOTE]
I have a friend who swings mostly with arm on serves. When he switches from his oversized ultralight racquet to my 390g racquet. His serves easily drop 20mph. For me, I don't notice much difference swinging any racquet other than timing.
I think alot can be technique driven

[vin]

I have a friend who swings mostly with arm on serves. When he switches from his oversized ultralight racquet to my 390g racquet. His serves easily drop 20mph. For me, I don't notice much difference swinging any racquet other than timing.
I think alot can be technique driven

Possibly because he can't swing your heavier racket as fast as he can swing his light one - especially if he's all arm.

[Galactus]

1 - The extra 20 mph sounds questionable. Do you think Roddick would lose 20 mph if he ditched his PD for a PS 85? I don't, especially since Sampras and Philippoussis served about as hard with a wood racket as they could with their graphite rackets. This was determined in a study and the article is on the internet somewhere. Maybe espn.com or tennis.com.

Besides, don't sweat the speed so much. If you really want more pace, develop it in a way so that you're hitting harder while still swinging at 75-80% because that will be easier to reproduce time and time again. Swinging as hard as you can is not nearly as reproducable and your double faults are an indication of that. I've learned this the hard way and it took me 2 years to really embrace it! I don't get as many comments about how big my serve and groundstrokes are lately, but I'm winning more matches. :) Winning matches with raw power is probably the most difficult and unreliable way to do it. Just look at the power players on tour, most of them are streaky.

1 - I agree. I think I'd get some more pace - but not that much! I'm not changing anyway...

2 - Yeah - as soon as I started to releax I also felt I was pushing up with my legs more and using my torso, rather than my shoulder alone.
This guy also said following through the ball on impact might give me more pace.