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The Pusher Terminator
01-08-2006, 07:52 PM
I just checked the Dunlop website and the Dunlop Mcenroe is listed as the balance being even. TW specs say it is 3 points head light.

In a prior thread, I was told that TW checks the balance with strings. If that is true then this racquet should have been at the most 3 points head HEAVY not 3 points head LIGHT!!! What is going on?

Sixpointone
01-08-2006, 11:20 PM
Hi Pusher,

Per that other thread it was mentioned a few times that although Dunlop (in this example, or other Frames in other examples) might have a target/listed set of specifications, Racquets can vary from Frame to Frame (due to manufacturing tolerances).

As for the exact question of the Balance of the Dunlop Maxply McEnroe listed by Tennis Warehouse, I still contend that you are best Served (pun intended) by inquiring in the Ask TW Forum.

Regards,
John

The Pusher Terminator
01-09-2006, 02:46 AM
Hi Pusher,

Per that other thread it was mentioned a few times that although Dunlop (in this example, or other Frames in other examples) might have a target/listed set of specifications, Racquets can vary from Frame to Frame (due to manufacturing tolerances).

As for the exact question of the Balance of the Dunlop Maxply McEnroe listed by Tennis Warehouse, I still contend that you are best Served (pun intended) by inquiring in the Ask TW Forum.

Regards,
John

As I mentioned before, I completely understand matching racquets and individual differences in weights. I have all my racquets matched by RPNY tennis. I have play fquite seriously and I am fully familiar that racquet specs differ from individual racquets. However TW is giving the impression that the "target" weight of this racquet is 3 points head light. This is a huge difference! It was pointed out in the prior string that TW was using "strung balance". This IMPOSSIBLE. If TW were using strung balance then the racquet would be 3 points head heavy! Strings add weight to the head of a racquet rather than make them lighter! So your explanations cannot be valid.

Finally I have sent TW an email and I am awaiting a response. I will also go on TW forums and ask the same quesion. Thanks.

Jonnyf
01-09-2006, 02:49 AM
TW's specs are an average from say 10 raquets (or more) so one racquet may be 4 points head heavy and one 4 points head light. Hope this helps

The Pusher Terminator
01-09-2006, 03:04 AM
Hey mate as i just said in your thread i beleive this to be the answer.

TW's specs are an average from say 10 raquets (or more) so one racquet may be 4 points head heavy and one 4 points head light. Hope this helps

im sure this is it but we'll wait for TW to reply


That is the not answer. No offense...but the last response I got from a poster was that it was the "strung balance" and it adds to the balance of the racquet. That was obviously false. Therefore, I will only accept an answer from TW rather than people just guessing,,,,unless of course you can cite some actual authority for your position.

However, if what you are saying is true (Which I think is impossible) then that would be a silly thing to do on TW's part. I once went through 35 Wilson racuqets just to find two identical racuets. To do a proper avervage TW would have to weigh and measure literally thousands and thousands of racquets . I do not believe that TW goes through this expense and headache.

Finally assuming arguendo, that TW did sample thousands of racquets and come up with an average...then shouldn't they simply post that fact? Why would there be such a huge discrepency without any explanation?

Jonnyf
01-09-2006, 03:29 AM
That is the not answer. No offense...but the last response I got from a poster was that it was the "strung balance" and it adds to the balance of the racquet. That was obviously false. Therefore, I will only accept an answer from TW rather than people just guessing,,,,unless of course you can cite some actual authority for your position.

However, if what you are saying is true (Which I think is impossible) then that would be a silly thing to do on TW's part. I once went through 35 Wilson racuqets just to find two identical racuets. To do a proper avervage TW would have to weigh and measure literally thousands and thousands of racquets . I do not believe that TW goes through this expense and headache.

Finally assuming arguendo, that TW did sample thousands of racquets and come up with an average...then shouldn't they simply post that fact? Why would there be such a huge discrepency without any explanation?





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TW measures several real racquets in their inventory -- last time I heard from them, it was 5-6. There are many times that TW's measure of the real production varies from the manufacturer's posted specs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinsella
TW measures several real racquets in their inventory -- last time I heard from them, it was 5-6. There are many times that TW's measure of the real production varies from the manufacturer's posted specs.


Hi,

Yes.. that is right. Last time I called and asked the guys at TW that was the case. They measure 5-6 and post the average. Also, Wilson has posted their specs as unstrung. I have seen on the inserts on some Wilson frames, the specs listed both strung and unstrung. Yes.. the specs can vary quite a bit from frame to frame and TW will do their best to match frame for you.




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The spec on the racket is (usually) unstrung since the user can choose various strings he/she likes and strings do vary in weight (gauge, material). On the other hand, (I believe) TW measures the spec among 4 to 5 rackets of the same model and calculate the average numbers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pusher Terminator
Well if you follow that line of logic then how does TW know the weight of the strings that you will use?


They are giving you an average, which I think is more useful than either nothing or the unstrung spec,

im not getting in a fight im just opy responses from the thread from about a week ago, that you posted.

Just postig my opinion, please dont get mad
Yours Sincerely
Jnyf

Sixpointone
01-09-2006, 05:04 AM
Hi Pusher,

I decided to use the search engine on this, and since the your question/topic exists both in the Racquets section as well as the Ask TW section, to error on the side of caution, I am posting this to both threads...

-----

The subject line previously posted was...
TW, your weight measures of racquets are incorrect !

The link to this was...
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=46412&highlight=Sample+Specs

The answer from Chris at TW was...
Actually we test many racquets taken from both stock and demo stock to provide an average weight.
The racquets are strung and DO NOT have overgrips and dampeners added.
Average spec tolerances are:
Spec tolerances
Weight: +/- 10 grams
Balance: +/- 10 mm = 3 to 4 points
SW: +/- 10 points
Ra Stiffness: +/- 3

Chris, TW.

-----

Hope that helps,
John

Vantage231511
01-09-2006, 05:17 AM
If a manufacturer's production can vary THAT much, such that an average is 3 pts head light, then I wouldn't trust the quality of the frame. 3 pts headlight is quite a bit headlight from a production standpoint.

I am sure the other poster was just making an example, but if production were to vary from 3pts heavy to 3 pts light then something is wrong.

Having said that, the manufacturers use specs based on initial production runs and small batch runs that are usually specifically monitored for quality. After the Chinese guys get the okay, specs tend to open up at the plant and rarely do the major manufacturers ever go sample products on the shelf for compliance to spec.

Jonnyf
01-09-2006, 05:22 AM
yeah i dont know exact differances i jut made one up so that the mean would be even balance

thejerk
01-09-2006, 07:49 AM
Is the beam width of the o3 prince racket still at 0?

SteveI
01-09-2006, 08:13 AM
Hi,

Didn't I just read and respond to this post.. two sec ago???? :-)

Steve

The Pusher Terminator
01-09-2006, 01:54 PM
TPT, I can't comment on how Dunlop measures racquet specs. However, our policy is to measure at least 3 strung racquets and publish the average specs. In the case of the Dunlop Maxply McEnroe, we stand by our balance spec of 3 points headlight (I just re-checked 5 demos). As NoBadMojo points out, it's not a perfect world but we do our best and believe our racquet specs are accurate, based on the products we have in stock. Don/Tennis Warehouse

Thank you for that answer. I also thank you guys for the great job that you do. However the Wilson surge is 4 points headlight...the web site also says that it is 4 points headlight. Why is your stats the exact same as Wilsons? The weirdest thing however is that if you actually look at the Surge racquet it says its 7 points head light. So now we have tennis warehouses average, the websites claim, and finally the print on the racquet. What is the right answer?

jackson vile
01-09-2006, 06:00 PM
If a manufacturer's production can vary THAT much, such that an average is 3 pts head light, then I wouldn't trust the quality of the frame. 3 pts headlight is quite a bit headlight from a production standpoint.

I am sure the other poster was just making an example, but if production were to vary from 3pts heavy to 3 pts light then something is wrong.

Having said that, the manufacturers use specs based on initial production runs and small batch runs that are usually specifically monitored for quality. After the Chinese guys get the okay, specs tend to open up at the plant and rarely do the major manufacturers ever go sample products on the shelf for compliance to spec.


You can always have a custom racquet made by Vantage and it would be exactly what you want end of story and they are cheap in my opinion

The Pusher Terminator
01-09-2006, 06:07 PM
You can always have a custom racquet made by Vantage and it would be exactly what you want end of story and they are cheap in my opinion

You figured me out! That is exactly what I am trying to do!!!! The problem is I can't figure out what specs to tell Vantage! I don't know whos specs to use...everyone has a freaking different one!

jackson vile
01-09-2006, 06:49 PM
You figured me out! That is exactly what I am trying to do!!!! The problem is I can't figure out what specs to tell Vantage! I don't know whos specs to use...everyone has a freaking different one!


Stay calm and do this, go testing, testing is great as you get to own 4 new raquets for 7 days. TW will do this for you and it is cheap.

Also Vantage will let you demo their pre-built racquets, next you can ask some of the 5.0's here AFTER you have finished demoing, just ask what they recomend for you to grow on.

Also after you get your Vantage take it into a custom auto body place and have them give you a custom paint job:D


Start with some general stuff, you you like soft or stiff, do you like the stiffness or softness in the head or the neck, do you like large head or small, do you like regualr length or extra long, do you like the string pattern tight or lose, how power full do you like it or do you like it weak, how much feel do you prefer, what thickness do you like for the beam to be 17mm-28mm, what is the highest swing weight that you can swing fast (enough to catch your best oponets serves for a good return), go heavy at least 12oz, try to get the balance 30.5 and get the majority of the weight in the throat.


Personally I recomend 95-90" head, flex of 59-63, stiff head, soft thoat, SW 320, static weight 345g-355g, blance 30.5, weight in throat, closed to open patter, becomes more open on the outside of the racquet with being 18X20 on the inside, beam no biger than 21mm no smaller than 18mm, use soft 18g poly in mains and 17g gut in crosses, string in 55-58lbs, ect

Sixpointone
01-09-2006, 06:52 PM
Pusher,

Here is a comment and a suggestion based upon that, which if possible, might help you out.

At times it would be nice to order a Racquet, and list the desired specs to have the Frame built to.

Having said that, if there is alreay a Racquet that you own, and there is a given aspect (Weight, Swingweight, Balance etc.) that you would like to replicate from it, perhaps it would be a good idea (if it is possible) to send your Racquet to them, so that they can get the information needed firsthand from that said Racquet.

Mind you, I know that that might not be possible in this case, but I wanted to post this in hopes that it might help you out.

Regards,
John