how to strengthen back?

[snoflewis]

i seem to have a fairly tender back/spine...so i was wondering if there were any exercises i could do to strenghten my back.

thanks

[CivicLx]

hmm...is it your lower back or your upper back that is bothering you? I think Marius Hancu always has some good advice on fitness, but you can try some stiff legged deadlifts for lower back (also helps hamstrings) maybe some real light deadlifts

Do you currently work out? If not, I would suggest seeing a doctor first to see if first of all he would suggest lifting weights, and then if he has any exercises in mind. Do you think you just have a weak back or could you possibly have an injury?

Actually I realize I'm jumping the gun a little here...are you talking about lifting weights or doing exercises like pull ups? I just assumed you meant exercises using weights...

also, I was talking to an instructor about having back pain myself and he suggested doing ab work because strengthening the abs will take stress of the back so you could always give that a try as well.

[fabsuk2000]

Umm
we had a discussion about this in the other section but nobody seems to believe me. There are these shoes called Mbt which cost £140 in the uk.They are swiss and what they do is they force you to balance yourself through the arches of your feet. YOu know when you go to the physio and you have all that relief from
them stretching out your spine well these shoes elongate your spine which is the main reason for back problem. There is no heel and the shoes teach you to roll walk. I can assure i dont work for them.However i do find there is one problem with the shoes and that is you cant carry a bag when wearing them as it will give u a muscle knot. Do you curve your spine a lot? Another reason people get back pain is through flat feet and being overweight. If overweight i recommend losing weight. Also do u have a firm matress.

You will see with these shoes that if you wear them for about 1 hour a day u will notice a difference. Also how tight is your neck as the tighter your neck is the stronger your back muscles are and with strong back muscles you get strong stomach muscles.

Anyway good luck

[snoflewis]

CivicLX, it's the lower back...it's not really hurting or anything...i just wanted to strengthen it that's all. thanks for the advice. i'll try those deadleg lifts soon

[Mikael]

Word. Deadlifts are the single best exercise for the lower back out there.

[scotus]

If you have a tender back, I would not recommend deadlift. Too many people injure themselves doing it. If you decided to take it up, learn good technique, increase loads very very gradually (and there's really no need for a tennis player to attempt heavy weights on this), and take at least several days (preferrably a week) of rest between deadlift sessions.

Personally, I prefer standing rows to deadlifts.

[Cavaleer]

CivicLX, it's the lower back...it's not really hurting or anything...i just wanted to strengthen it that's all. thanks for the advice. i'll try those deadleg lifts soon


Be VERY, VERY, careful with deadlifts. If your lower back is already weak or sore I would not start with deadlifts, as Scotus said.

Instead, try "good mornings" with dumbbells at a light weight and high reps.

Starting in an upright position with the dumbbells in each hand at your side, bend over at the waist until your torso forms a 45 degree angle with your legs. Return to original upright position and repeat concentrating the muscle contraction on/in your lower back muscles. Repeat 20-30 times. You should feel the burn around the 15th repetition.

Do these every other day or even every day for at least a month before you do a deadlight.

[Marius_Hancu]

deadlifts or good mornings, yes, but only if your back is in perfect condition, or if you're using light weights

otherwise, back extensions are fine

swimming is also good

[BeeVee]

Yeah seriously, if you are going to deadlift, your form had better be perfect or you risk a serious back issue. I speak from experience on this. Trap bar deadlifts might be a good replacement for normal d/lifts.

[bee]

At my gym they have a back extension exercise machine. It's pret much like a cruch machine but backwards. I use it straight back and also turned to each side. It's a wonderful thing. Must not try to do too much weight with it, however. I use 70# and high reps. Feels good too.

[jackson vile]

This is something that most people simply don't fully understand, with deadlifts back extension ect you are not going to fix any problem at all, the muscles will be stronger that is all.


You must correct the improper posture and this can only be done though habit, and proper sitting and sitting chairs.


Have you ever seen those chairs that you kneel on and have no back to them?


You must first train a muscle for proper funciton and orientation before it is of any real use to you endurance is key here as you need proper posture all day not for 5 seconds that you do a deadlift how is a total of 25 seconds compared to 16hrs of poor posture going to help.

It's not

[PowerServe]

jackson vile,

no disrespect intended but I HAVE to bring this up. 'Sitting' on backless chairs will only yield minimal results. The fact that we, during our daily activities, perform tasks in the frontal plane (in the front of our bodies - even typing) results in a slight contraction of our chest, shoulders, and abdominals. This daily contraction of muscles (over time) in the frontal plane (without proper and equal stimulation to the opposing muscle) results in these muscles being tense while even relaxed. Over time, it will show in our posture as a muscular imbalance is created with the chest, ab, and shoulder muscles being stronger, resulting in rounded (even if slightly) shoulders, backs, and necks.

One of the most effective ways to correct this is to work the antagonistic (opposing) muscles. Ie. Upper back is the antagonist of the chest muscles. Since, over time, the chest muscles have been slightly more developed and stimulated than the upper back muscles, the chest overpowers this group and the tension placed on the insertion points of the pec tends to create 'rounded forward' shoulders.

To correct this, it's important to strengthen the upper back with specific exericises for the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, teres major/minor, and rhomboids. The increase of strength in these muscles will ultimately correct the imbalance between the chest and upper back - creating proper posture and alleviating an imbalance in the muscular strength of these 2 opposing muscle groups, because the upper back muscles will have equal strength to that of the pec.

In this particular example, if your shoulders were once rounded, the strength increase in the upper back muscles will ultimately cause the shoulders to revert back to their normal postion or "straightening of the shoulders.

Sorry for the rambling, the point is that sitting on backless chairs won't do a damn bit of good. If you want to strengthen your back, then follow the suggestions above and perform specific back exercises.

Though the deadlift and stiff legged deadlift are only 2 of many effective back exercises. If you're looking to strengthen the more intrinsic muscles located within your vertebrate, do a google search for 'exercises for degenerative disc disease'. You'll find a plathora of exercises you can do that will prepare you for the more advanced deadlift, if you feel you're not ready.

PServe

[jackson vile]

Did you even read my post? You ideas show a lack of a full understanding for how muscles work.

What you are refering to is internal rotation, you have an idea but not a full picture of how muscles perform and function and it shows.


When you go to the gym you do those exercises and then for the rest of the day your still internally rotated and you accomplish nothing.

A strenght exercise will do nothing to relive this improper form, as you back can be the strongest in the world but that mean nothing if it does not have proper mechanics ie being able to work properly and being able to hold that proper posture for extended periods of time ie 16hrs.


When you are using and bracless chair you are forced to work those muscles correctly teaching them to once again fire correctly and you are forced to traint them not only for strenght but most importantly strength indurance


Also most people have extremely tight and over strengthend hip flexors and weak gluts, so regular stretching of the hip is very important but you must also teach the glutes to once agian fire properly which you can do with step ups with hip flexion, the hip flexion of the oposite leg forces the glute to fire though out the motion as it is supposed to do.


Take a look at yourself in the mirror do you slouch, is your pelvis titled so that your hips point down and your glutes are pointing slightly up, do your feet stick out to the sides?

This is due to improper firing of these muscles and you need to be able to hold a proper posistion thought the day for 16hrs and 3 days a weak at the gym is not going to do it.

As when you are in improper form those apposing muscles are working all the time during those 16hrs a day while your back is not.

That is science, mechanics, an human physiology, sorry you can't not :cool: understand that

[PowerServe]

Science? What science are you referring? I don't remember studying 'sitting in a backless chair' to correct muscular imbalances in my physiology classes. What you are referring to is not science.

I have an idea? I hope so, I have a masters in exercise phys.

""What you are refering to is internal rotation""

-internal rotation of what? there is no internal rotation at the chest nor is it internal rotation when the shoulders are 'pulled' forward by the pectoral muscle during a pectoral contraction. It's referred to as a PECTORAL CONTRACTION or a CONTRACTION OF THE PECTORAL MUSCLES.

So you're saying basically, a person must sit in an upright position 16 hours per day to correct a muscular imbalance between the pectoralis/anterior deltoids and the posterior deltoids/rhomboids/infraspinatus/supraspinatus that causes forward rounding of the shoulders? What would happen if I chose to do specific strength exercises that increased the strength of the latter muscle pairing by 150%, would the equal antagonistic pull of these muscles on the chest/delts be counteractive, but still result in a muscular imbalance?

After reading other posts you've made at this forum, it's obvious that it wouldn't be fair to you if we got into a ******* contest. So, if you want to sit in a backless chair to strengthen your back, improve your posture, and correct muscular imbalances, go for it. Just come back if you need help, because the last time I checked, I haven't had a match last 16 hours, EVER. And even if I had, I'm SURE that sitting in a backless chair wouldn't have helped me dominate the court.

PServe

[fabsuk2000]

I am going to have to agree with jacksonville here. He is correct. Before you even attempt to strengthn your back you should sort out our your posture as a strong back with bad posture will give you pains.

Once you have correct posture you elongate the spine and that strengthens your back which in turn strengthen your stomach muscles. Which in turn makes it harder to slouch and activates more of your muscles which means a faster metabolism. Thus its easier to keep correct posture once you have good posture.

Now my tips for correcting back is something quite simple.

1st how do u sit down.I noticed that when i sat down before i corrected my posture that it was natrual to slouch as my back muscles had no muscles.
A simple tip to do which i found was just to copy someones feet poistion of someone who had good posture because when i asked him what he did he didnt know so i just copied him.

Basically try and lean forward and put your feet on tiptoes.
Also when you walk put the weight on the outside of your feet and as you step down shift it to the left side of your feet.I found this particualrly helpful as i have flat feet.
Also calf muslces should be perpendicular.
Basically start from your feet to your head.Your head is like a pivot.
It may sound stupid but people have bad habits and its difficult to accept that everyday things you might be doing wrong.

REcord yourself how you walk and how you sit and then think to yourself is that where your back pain is coming from.It is much easier to see visually then with words.

[jackson vile]

PowerServe do you even know what crossed syndrome is do you know what pelvic tilt is and its effects on the body, answer this, how do you strength the back with out ever working the back.


Any time the should joint is forward that is internal rotation, you have no practical use of your knowledge and it shows.

You do not correct a bad back with deadlifts ect, It is far far deaper than that and your recomendations will only waste peoples time or hurt them if they have a back problem.


If you want to go toe to toe that is more than fine with me as I will pull up all of my references with studies and info various specialists.

Your choice;)

[PowerServe]

1) The origional post had nothing to do with pain. They wanted to strengthen their back

2) sitting on a backless chair is NOT how to strengthen a back, though it's a great tool for developing posture if there isn't a muscular imbalance(something I did not give you credit for earlier, sorry). However, if there IS a muscular imbalance, this particular technique will yield very little in the way of results.

3) Fabsuck you're right in this regard, and as I said in the first post, stiff legged and romanian deadlifts are an advanced exercise to strengthen the back. To increase the STRENGTH (which was what this origional post was about) in the more intrinsic muscles, there are exercises that work the teeny weeny muscles within the vertebrate that are not stimulated in a large muscle recruiting exercise such as the dead lift. To find these exercises google "exercises for degenerative disc disease" and you'll have far greater success than simply sitting upright all day

4) to THINK and AGREE that sitting in a backless chair is going to STRENGTHEN your back to such a degree as to correct a muscular imbalance is asinine.

5) neither of you obviously have a clue as to muscle biomechanics, anatomy, or physiology. However, a dramatically STRENGTHENED muscle becomes more TONED within 3-6 weeks of specific muscular training. The definition of "Tone" is the level of muscular contraction while at rest. So guess what, that means if the level of MUSCULAR contraction at REST is INCREASED, there is a more intense pull at the muscle's insertion point. This also means a 'toned' muscle is a shorter muscle at rest because it is now slightly contracted. Thus it counteracts any antagonistic pull on its joint attachment. To what extent of the counteraction depends upon the degree of muscle tone increase.

What it means - for the example above, if you were to go into the gym and do bench press 1-2 times per week for over the course of a few months without proper stimulation or development of the opposing muscle group (the upper back), then you are at an increased risk of a muscular imbalance within these muscle groups. This will cause the shoulders to protract or round forward. The "muscle tone" of the chest and supportive muscles used in the bench press has caused the shoulders to protract because these particular muscles are now slightly contracted (and Shortened) at rest, placing additional, unopposed forward pressure on the shoulders.

If you imagine leaning a 250 lb pole against a wooden fence in your backyard, the fence may not bend immediately, but if you leave it there over time, the fence will eventually bow if there isn't an equal force on the opposing side.

Strengthening the Upper Back muscles (leaning a 250 lb pole on the opposite side of the fence) will create an opposing force to the newly developed chest (the origional 250 lb pole) resulting in correctly aligned shoulders (a straight fence.)

PServe

[PowerServe]

Jacksonvile,

Internal rotation of the shoulder joint is performed when you try to scratch your lower back with your thumb. It's the forward ROTATION (get that? ROTATION) of that joint. the pull of the muscularly toned chest muscle DOES NOT cause rotation of the joint. It causes protraction of the shoulder. Look it up.

Pelvic tilt/Crossed Syndrome? yeah, I know what it is... Do you? Look that one up too, grasshopper, and get back to me with an intelligent and relavent argument and I'll resume this conversation.

PServe

[jackson vile]

i seem to have a fairly tender back/spine...so i was wondering if there were any exercises i could do to strenghten my back.

thanks


1)Right there he said tender back

2)Correct posture induces proper firing of the motor units in proper order, are you familar with the kenetic chain? If you want full strenght of the back all must be strengthend and trained to fire properly again.

If you have muscular imbalances of the aposing/antagonist then your body will shut it all down right away or not allow the strongest muscles to fire to their highest degree.

Are you familar with your only as strong as your weakest link?

Just strengthing of the lower back will do nothing more but to force the uper back to curve even more.

Our spins are in an semi s type shape it becomes more s like as the lower back pulls tighter due to the transves abs being so weak as a result you end up with pelvic tilting and a loss in the ability to move the hip extensors through a full motion as they are already semi contracted.

The bottom half of the spin will force the top half to be imbalance with it ie botom is tilted so will be the top

that is pelvic cross syndrome:cool:


3) for a perosn with cross syndrom (most people in the world) strengthing the the transvers abs will help correct the tilt and in turn relive the lower back of any stress and thus strengthing it as it is now able to fire properly

Now if you have a healthy core (do you knowwhat that is?) then a reverse hyper (do you know what that is) is what is the best tool in working the lower back, the lower back fires in unison with the glutes, hams this is know as hip extension ie your legs moving form your body, hip flexion which people get too much of is your knees/legs coming to your chest.

The lower back works naturally in this mostion and firing pattern anything else is not optimal


4) you are impossible, do you understand why the aposing muscles are chronicly contracted the way they are? It is due to the constant poor posture all day sitting all day slouching. These muscles have lost all strength indurance.

Think of this for people who are reading, strong men and body builders are some of the strongest most well devolped athletes in the world yet they have some of the worst posture there is. Not convinced yet, look at weight lifter, they almost exclusivly work the legs, hip extensors, uper back ect, yet you see them with the same problem.

I see men all the time at the gym with an amazing huge bulging back and traps that make the neck disapear yet they are constantly slouched.


5) As I have pointed out this is not true the aposing muscles are contantly contracted for 16 hrs a day due to poor posture and are already chronicly tight, further more the chronic kyphosis to the thoracic spine will inhibit the strengthening of the aposing muscle groups inorder avoid injury due to over contracted and weak core and the agonist and antagonist muscles groups.




So the take home message here is Practice proper posture at all time, get a new chair for work and home, train the transverse abs, train the hip extensors, ect


1)transverse abs: think of this a internal abs that work as a weight belt, they support the core (mid section) and support the lower back, helps to relieve pain, discomfort, weakness of the lower back.

They are traied by laying flat on the ground face up, take your hand and put it by the small of your lower back, do you feel that arch there, flaten that out, all they way out, now mover your legs to the ceiling, the goal is to not allow the back to round back out.


2) How to train the hip extensors, you may have a machine in your gym just for this movement, but most likely not, so you have two options you can either lay on a ab ball, you know those big goofy looking beach balls we all have at our gym, you roll forward so that your head is touching the ground and your butt is in the air (yea that right, do you want a strong back or not:p ) now your tilted forward but in air front of toes touching ground now raise them all the way up nice and straight and full contract that back.

Another way to do this is to use the back extension equipment in reverse you just lean forward at 90 degree and then start swinging those legs up. Or if you would rather skip that do step up on a bench or those aerobic steps, stack them as high as you can step on and add dumbels in hands if needed step up and then as you do so bring the aposing legs knee to your chest so that you are really contracting the glute.

This is your biggest bang for the buck in improving you pain, discomfort, aches in the back, however you will notice you can hit the ball harder in golf and tennis along with an improved serve.

[PowerServe]

I rest my case.... :|

he/she wanted to strengthen the back.. So you fix a tender back with postural work? It seems that you turn to postural work as the pancea as it seems to be your recurring theme.

Do you ever read your posts before you place them on the forum?

PServe