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View Full Version : 12oz racquet for 10 year old?


miki
01-26-2006, 07:25 PM
Can little kid, 10 years old, 70#, can play with 12oz racquet?
Is it safe and will it help him to develop good game? He is playing now with 10oz Volkl but really likes to play with my racquets and performing quite good.
Thanks

snoflewis
01-26-2006, 07:31 PM
i'd say give the kid what he likes...it'll slow down his swing a bit, but if he likes it, i think you should give it to him...or at least upgrade him to a 11 oz racket

Z-Man
01-26-2006, 07:58 PM
When I was 10, I played with a Prince Graphite Pro that was closer to 13oz. As long as it is headlight and not to stiff, it should not be a problem. Check the swingweight. You don't have to swing a heavy racquet as fast to generate the same pace, so if your technique is good, weight does not necessarily cause physical stress. Besides, you have more control with a slower swing, and placement and consistency are more important than power, especially for a 10-year old.

sharapovalover
01-26-2006, 08:00 PM
i was 10 pretty recently (14 now) and I loved the pure drive if you think he should stick with a jouniors racquet go for an aero pro drive junior

matchpoint54
01-26-2006, 08:07 PM
my little brother who is 10 plays with a flexpoint rad. tour. He likes it and i think he plays well with it.

miki
01-26-2006, 08:18 PM
Good experience, thanks for replies. From my selection he likes Slazenger x-1, it has relatevely low swing weight and I think it's very comfortable racquet.
Next I want to see if he can last 1-1.5 hours with heavy racquet and decide after that.

NoBadMojo
01-26-2006, 09:11 PM
Not a good idea for a 10yo to play w. a 12oz frame. The Slaz X1 is for a 4.5 and up player who is a clean ball striker who can develop their own power. it isnt comfortable on miss hits. Do your little girl a favour and get her a lesson with a good pro and he/she should be able to get her into something appropriate. You really dont go by age. 10 year olds come in all kinds of differing sizes and natural ability. A 12oz demanding frame is way off base.

meh
01-26-2006, 09:16 PM
If your child really prefers the X1 and hits better with it, then by all means let him use it. The best racquet is the one you play best with, and there really is no incentive for you (or him) to force certain equipment on him. However, if you do think he plays better with a less demanding stick, go ahead and tell him so...after all, you [should] know more about tennis equipment that he does.

BaseLineBash
01-26-2006, 09:26 PM
BadMojo, little girls swung 12oz+ racquets before the 90's. Where is your base?

miki
01-26-2006, 09:48 PM
OK, little more details: he is a boy, he was taking a LOT of lessons, his technique better than mine - long full swings, SW grip with good spin, and the most important he loves tennis.

NoBadMojo
01-26-2006, 09:50 PM
BadMojo, little girls swung 12oz+ racquets before the 90's. Where is your base?

my base is based in the year 2006 and not in the 80's..my based is based upon teaching tennis for many years. and your base? even in the 90's adults were using frames lighter than 12 ozs, let alone the 80;s and letalone 70 pound kids.. i guess you arent aware the game has changed and the gear has changed. and its' NoBadMojo not badMojo. I'm sure your mistake was unintentional right?

sorry for the gender error miki, but i dont know any 70 pound person who can swing a 315SW frame fast enough using good technique. If your boy has taken lots of lessons, ask his pro. None of us can see your boy play.

meh
01-26-2006, 09:59 PM
miki, if he can hit aggressively and not tire with the X1, then give it to him. He sounds like he is fairly dedicated, and having a stick to grow into is not a problem. Sometimes, a challenging frame can force the player to increase his skillset to keep up with his opponents (although this isn't always the case).

And btw, can people stop flaming and taking shots at NoBadMojo, it always forces the thread into a downwards spiral bc of NBM's "disclaimers" and self-crucifying defensive attitude and the others' idiocy and inability to accept his views. The Over 40-12 oz thread was killed bc for the same reason; decent threads shouldn't be polluted with personal bickering... NOT flaming anybody, although I'll probably get sent to NBM's ignore list bc of this post

NoBadMojo
01-26-2006, 10:04 PM
miki, if he can hit aggressively and not tire with the X1, then give it to him. He sounds like he is fairly dedicated, and having a stick to grow into is not a problem. Sometimes, a challenging frame can force the player to increase his skillset to keep up with his opponents (although this isn't always the case).

And btw, can people stop flaming and taking shots at NoBadMojo, it always forces the thread into a downwards spiral bc of NBM's "disclaimers" and self-crucifying defensive attitude and the others' idiocy and inability to accept his views. The Over 40-12 oz thread was killed bc for the same reason; decent threads shouldn't be polluted with personal bickering... NOT flaming anybody, although I'll probably get sent to NBM's ignore list bc of this post

so wait..you say in one sentence that i am always getting flamed and that people are taking shots at me and then you somehow proceed to take a potshot at me? nice move there pal

BaseLineBash
01-26-2006, 10:05 PM
I guess I made a new friend. By the way Mojo I think senior citizens 10% discount at BK is on thursday between 9-10:30am, so you can get a cup of coffee before you go play with your 262sq. inch. 2oz. racquet. I bet you never miss a volley.:p

NoBadMojo
01-26-2006, 10:08 PM
I guess I made a new friend. By the way Mojo I think senior citizens 10% discount at BK is on thursday between 9-10:30am, so you can get a cup of coffee before you go play with your 262sq. inch. 2oz. racquet. I bet you never miss a volley.:p

Classic example why knowedgable good people dont post on the TW board much anymore

meh
01-26-2006, 10:09 PM
so wait..you say in one sentence that i am always getting flamed and that people are taking shots at me and then you somehow proceed to take a potshot at me? nice move there pal
Not a potshot, really don't feel like arguing, lets all just go wallowing in self pity and contradiction

boxingguy
01-26-2006, 10:12 PM
Heavy racquet worked out for AA pretty well.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=56294&highlight=mike+agassi

NoBadMojo
01-26-2006, 10:18 PM
It's amazing the ignorant crappy people around here. also amazing is the really bad advice that gets dished out around here.

BaseLineBash
01-26-2006, 10:26 PM
Point is Mojo, any healthy 10 year old boy or girl can swing a 12oz. racquet given it's even to headlight. You say you've been teaching for years...well you of all people should know a heavier racquet than what is predominantly marketed today helps in building good technique.

Midlife crisis
01-27-2006, 12:24 AM
Point is Mojo, any healthy 10 year old boy or girl can swing a 12oz. racquet given it's even to headlight. You say you've been teaching for years...well you of all people should know a heavier racquet than what is predominantly marketed today helps in building good technique.

Since the OP's son is 70 pounds, if you weigh 140 pounds, do you use a 24 ounce racquet? That is the exact same ratio of body weight to racquet weight.

Why do you believe it takes a heavy racquet to learn good technique? If a racquet were too heavy for someone to use, don't you think they would use inappropriate technique to swing it?

lanky
01-27-2006, 01:28 AM
I play with the slaz X1 but i am an old geezer trying to learn modern technique.It is not the racquet for a 10 year old -too heavy, sweet spot too small.It is not necessarily the racquet for somebody learning the game in the modern style.I learnt with a heavy wood racquet but was taught classical technique.The game has moved on.There are a host of excellent racquets out there for the up and coming junior.My son age 12 plays with a pure drive since age 10 .He loves it .It suits the modern game .Some stars with street cred play with it (very important to a young person).I am not impressed when i have a go with it but then as Im told by junior-Im too old.
Finally a plea- can everybody cease this ridiculous hijacking of threads to start personal arguements.I was enjoying the over40/12 oz thread until it was hijacked.If you dont agree with nobadmojo argue about it in tennis terms not personal.Please.

ohplease
01-27-2006, 05:04 AM
Can little kid, 10 years old, 70#, can play with 12oz racquet?
Is it safe and will it help him to develop good game? He is playing now with 10oz Volkl but really likes to play with my racquets and performing quite good.
Thanks

He should play with what he prefers - regardless of weight. Most things that happen on a tennis court - good or bad - are due to someone's game, not their racket.

At 10, unless he's playing other nationally or sectionally ranked 10 year olds (who even then might not win with pace), he can pretty much play with whatever he wants - so long as he keeps on wanting to play! Good luck.

gonzalocatalino
01-27-2006, 06:01 AM
i really don`t know if it good or not, but in the courts i play, there is a 9-10 y/o girl that play with is father LM prestige MP. From i can see, work pretty good for her. She have taked lessons for a few years, and this year have changed to the prestige...

alb1
01-27-2006, 06:15 AM
I played in junior tournamnets over 30 years ago and am currently the parent of a child who's plays 18U state level events. I'm amazed at the increase in the speed of the game. The racket head speed that kids need to generate these days to be successful is tremendously greater than in the past. I know several nationally ranked 18U kids who used 26in. long, light 10-11 oz junior rackets when they were in the 10U group. IMO your son will not benefit from a 12 oz racket at this stage.

bismark
01-27-2006, 07:06 AM
12 oz stick is too heavy for a 10 yr old. Tennis has very much evolved, so it's no use comparing to kids of yesteryear. Go for something light and comfortable, with ample sweetspot.

And no, heavy players' racquets do NOT help (or force) you to improve your technique. Good instruction and lots of practice do.

BaseLineBash
01-27-2006, 09:21 AM
If a 10 year old boy/girl "can" swing a 11-12oz racquet they should given it's even to headlight. Why not swing a lighter racquet? 1.) violent strokes are harder to control, 2.) when you are stretching for a shot, you don't have time to execute a long stroke, so velocity will be small and because racquet weight is small also, your shot will be weak, 3.) the light, fast racquet will slow down a lot on impact, stressing the arm. All of that lost energy will have to go somewhere, like your arm. Momentum (mass times velocity) and not force (mass times acceleration) or energy (1/2 mass times velocity squared) is what counts in a collision. Physics and common sense. These are just the facts.

sureshs
01-27-2006, 09:32 AM
Not a good idea for a 10yo to play w. a 12oz frame. The Slaz X1 is for a 4.5 and up player who is a clean ball striker who can develop their own power. it isnt comfortable on miss hits. Do your little girl a favour and get her a lesson with a good pro and he/she should be able to get her into something appropriate. You really dont go by age. 10 year olds come in all kinds of differing sizes and natural ability. A 12oz demanding frame is way off base.

Agree. I am over 40 and play with the X1, but I don't care about losing. Just what is good for my elbow and how comfortable I feel. And I like the heavy balls I can hit with it. But a 10 year old will get disheartened if he starts losing to his peers with lighter bigger racquets. The game at that age as taught by coaches today consists in using a western grip on the FH and looping the ball high and deep. And a two handed backhand doing the same thing. They are taught to loop high to the opponent's backhand. A stronger and taller player can use the X1 to loop it back or slice it deep on the BH. Not a 10 year old when he will see the ball bouncing over his head to his left. He needs to get a lighter bigger head racquet and do the same thing as his opponents do.

Also remember that 12 oz for a 10 year old can create shoulder pain and fatigue after a few games. Using a western grip on that heavy of a stick is also bad for the wrist.

Midlife crisis
01-27-2006, 09:45 AM
If a 10 year old boy/girl "can" swing a 11-12oz racquet they should given it's even to headlight. Why not swing a lighter racquet? 1.) violent strokes are harder to control, 2.) when you are stretching for a shot, you don't have time to execute a long stroke, so velocity will be small and because racquet weight is small also, your shot will be weak, 3.) the light, fast racquet will slow down a lot on impact, stressing the arm. All of that lost energy will have to go somewhere, like your arm. Momentum (mass times velocity) and not force (mass times acceleration) or energy (1/2 mass times velocity squared) is what counts in a collision. Physics and common sense. These are just the facts.

How heavy are you, and how heavy of a racquet do you use?

ohplease
01-27-2006, 10:47 AM
How heavy are you, and how heavy of a racquet do you use?

You're implying there's some linear relationship between body mass and racquet mass. Even if an adult weighed 140 lbs and played with a 12 oz frame - there are no 6 oz frames for the 70 lbs kid to play with.

And even then - the tennis ball is still 60 grams. Are you giving the kid a 30 gram ball to play with, too?

At the very highest levels of junior tennis, there might be a need for a lighter frame. Otherwise, if we're talking typical 10 year old tennis, the absolute highest priority is that the kid wants to play. What he should play with is way, way, way lower on the list.

alb1
01-27-2006, 12:07 PM
My son use to like to pick up one of my rackets( 11.5 320 sw) and use it for a while when he was 10 also. He did all right when I was feeding him balls. He took it to a Team Tennis match as a back up one day.(like he would ever break a string at that point) After a slow start he picked up my racket (had to be the racket of course) and found that it was much more difficult to use when someone was not hitting the ball right to you. ( He did get to blame the loss on my racket ) After that he stuck to his own lighter racket. Not because I made him, but because he had more fun and success using his own. Let the kid play and it will work itself out.

dmvprof
01-27-2006, 12:16 PM
Doesn't age have little to do with raquet choice?

I would think that strength and size would be more important.

I let my 10 yr old daughter goof around with my raquet and she hurt her wrist on a follow through.

anirut
01-27-2006, 12:16 PM
Just hope I won't get bashed here ...

IMO, if your son likes a 12 oz racket, get him a wood to train with FIRST. That'll train him the strokes for heavy rackets. By the time he has learnt proper mechanics with wood, he'll be strong enough to not wreck havoc on his wrist with modern 'wristy' techniques.

One thing, MAKE SURE he's trained for good foot-work.

I won't argue that today's game has changed. But just having watched Fed played Keifer, I still think proper mechanics win any day. Why? Because you won't have to really hit out; let the racket to the work and you use your body to control it.

My son, 12, plays my 13 oz racket. But I trained him with wood, and still let him play with wood from time to time. As the saying goes, "Old is Gold".

My personal opinions, of course.

BaseLineBash
01-27-2006, 01:41 PM
"Do not start children playing tennis with an under-sized racquet. It weakens the wrist and does not aid the child in learning strokes. Start a child, boy or girl, with a full-sized racquet of at least 13 ounces."-Bill Tilden

http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/tech/sports/TheArtofLawnTennis/chap4.html
Like it or not, it's relevant.

Midlife crisis
01-27-2006, 02:17 PM
You're implying there's some linear relationship between body mass and racquet mass. Even if an adult weighed 140 lbs and played with a 12 oz frame - there are no 6 oz frames for the 70 lbs kid to play with.

And even then - the tennis ball is still 60 grams. Are you giving the kid a 30 gram ball to play with, too?

At the very highest levels of junior tennis, there might be a need for a lighter frame. Otherwise, if we're talking typical 10 year old tennis, the absolute highest priority is that the kid wants to play. What he should play with is way, way, way lower on the list.

I'm implying that if you have all these tennis players here who are adults and complain that a 12 ounce racquet is too heavy, then how you can you expect a 10 year old, 70 pound child not to also find it is too heavy?

And actually, except for kids being slightly disproportionately heavy in the head, there is a fairly good correspondence between muscle mass versus total body weight between an early teen or preteen and an adult. What kids usually lack is the learned ability to recruit large percentages of muscle fibers at once, which again points to the fact that force generation is going to be disproportionately low in preteens and young teens.

Regarding the ball, and unless you're playing at the highest levels of junior tennis, it is also moving slower than in an adult game, so the inertia that needs to be overcome is less also. Less inertia means less weight requirement in the racquet.

Your last point is spot on - use whatever equipment keeps the kid playing. I guess it is just my experience that this is not a 12 ounce racquet.

Donnie Darko
01-27-2006, 02:35 PM
my base is based in the year 2006 and not in the 80's..my based is based upon teaching tennis for many years. and your base?


All your base belong to us
Set us up the bomb

dozu
01-27-2006, 02:43 PM
my goodness you people are arguing about this as if the kid is the next federer... he is 10 years old and he is just fooling around... i day give him an aluminum yard sale racket and see if he can keep the interest up.

who knows if 3 months later he'd totally lost interest in tennis.

Slazenger
01-27-2006, 03:23 PM
Just my 2 cents...

The Slaz X-1 is not a racquet for a 10yr old. It's heavy, but more importantly the racquet has a small sweetspot and is very unforgiving on off-centre shots. This can actually hurt him.

Now if your son is consistently hitting the ball cleanly with good form and doesn't find it heavy and likes it (not that his Dad wants his son to use an 'advanced' racquet), then by all means let him use it.

(The above is not the case with a majority of juniors in that age range I've seen play)

bcsax123
01-27-2006, 05:20 PM
Ok now I'm 14 and I use a POG OS (Modified to a bit more than 13 OZ). When I was 10 I used a Wilson Sting 2 Mid (11.5oz)
As long as the racket is head light, it really doesent matter. For example, my brother has a 10.5 OZ head heavy racket, but my 13 oz POG has a much lower swing weight.

dozu
01-27-2006, 07:59 PM
aside from my earlier comment about giving the kid a yard sale racket....

if today's kids game is truely much faster than before, then if it's my own kid, i'd give him a very heavy racket, so that his racket will dominate the other player's, this way there is less chance of injury.

fishuuuuu
01-27-2006, 08:33 PM
Classic example why knowedgable good people dont post on the TW board much anymore

And this is coming from you?

P.S. Let the kid hit with what he likes as long as it doesn't detriment his health.

Ronaldo
01-27-2006, 08:48 PM
5 yrs ago the 1st racquet recommended was the PS 6.0 85 for everyone. That'll do

chess9
01-28-2006, 01:47 AM
In 1955 I was given a $1.99 racquet imported from China. It was heavier than Sharapova's make-up case. I was 12, and about 80 lbs.

As I recall, no techno weenies were complaining about heavy racquets until recently. :) Even in the '60's when I was playing in college, the girls were playing with a 13+ oz racquet and the only discussion among the males I knew was whether to use M or H. My 4 3/4 H was, what, 14 oz? I don't even know, that's how umimportant it was then. This issue has become important for reasons that totally escape me.... Maybe I should ask the Prince marketing department? :) Oh, and in the old days we played FULL SETS. One of my matches went to 27-25 in the third set.

Muscle mass is not as important as the ability to use the kinetic chain properly. As a consequence, one can easily find kids who are 5 years old who can swing a baseball bat, golf club, or tennis racquet and hit the ball pretty hard. Some 10 year olds can outserve me because they can generate so much velocity with their timing and flexibility, but not because of their muscle mass. I could still out bench them I'm sure. :) (I hope so, anyway.) One might even argue that heavier racquets are BETTER for kids because it teaches them to use their whole body to swing it-or can. If you give a kid an 8 oz racquet is he as likely to learn full hip and shoulder rotation? Good balance? Hmmmm.....

When it comes to kids, I'd let them use the racquet that keeps them excited with the game. If that's a 25", 8 oz graphite model shaped like Hendrix's guitar, then fine! If the kid wants to try an adult's racquet it isn't going to hurt him. Millions of kids have done that. The dire warnings of injury, swing faults, ad nauseam, are unconvincing to me. All of this focus on the perfect racquet is like the triathlon fathers who buy their ten year old daughters a $3000 bike for races. Kids just need to play and have fun. If they are having fun everything else will fall into place with good coaching, diet, and training.

Regarding the complaints about an extra one or two oz being tiring for 170 lb males, well, I call bu******. I have hit up to 2500 tennis balls almost non-stop with my Lobster Elite tennis ball machine, swinging my 12.5 oz ROK. Yes, I'm tired when I'm done, but it's my legs not my arms that are aching. Good grief, if guys can't swing a 12 oz racquet off and on for two hours this country is in serious trouble.

Just my humble opinion, of course. I've come back to tennis from a long lay-off. My view is that tennis has been infiltrated by the "SUITS" in marketing and common sense tossed out the window.

-Robert
________
MONTANA MEDICAL MARIJUANA (http://montana.dispensaries.org/)

BaseLineBash
01-28-2006, 10:50 AM
off. My view is that tennis has been infiltrated by the "SUITS" in marketing and common sense tossed out the window.

My thoughts as well.