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View Full Version : Are Hall of Fame standards getting too low?


Californication
01-27-2006, 01:01 PM
Hey guys, I'm a long time reader of the forums but I decided to join up and start posting.

By inducting Pat Rafter into the Hall of Fame, are the standards just getting too low? Rafter did win 3 Slams (2 US Open singles crowns, 1 AO doubles title), but in all Rafter won only 11 titles over his career. He was my favorite player when he was playing because of his amazing serve and volley style, but by letting him in, the standards are way too low. If Rafter gets in with 11 titles and 2 Slams, can Thomas Johansson now make an arguement that his 9 singles titles and 1 Slam deserve an HOF bid? Thomas should not even snif the Hall of Fame. Albert Costa won 12 singles titles and 1 Slam, should he be a Hall of Famer.

By inducting Rafter, Andy Roddick now becomes a cinch of a Hall of Famer. Roddick has won 20 singles titles, including 1 Slam title and 3 Super 9 titles. He has one less Slam title but will likely end his career with more than double Rafter's singles titles, and even with only 1 Slam that would be stronger than Rafter.

Did Rafter really deserve a HOF bid?

Moose Malloy
01-27-2006, 01:04 PM
Noah & Novotna are in, so putting Rafter in is a no-brainer.
And Sabatini is in as well.

Gugafan_Redux
01-27-2006, 01:05 PM
Did Rafter really deserve a HOF bid?

Yes. End of story.

arosen
01-27-2006, 01:07 PM
If Marcos beats Federer tomorrow, he would totally deserve to be in that Hall of Fame.

Californication
01-27-2006, 01:07 PM
Noah & Novotna are in, so putting Rafter in is a no-brainer.
And Sabatini is in as well.


So does every player who has won a Slam deserve a Hall of Fame bid?

Moose Malloy
01-27-2006, 01:12 PM
It looks that way. But Novotna & Sabatini are two of the more accomplished one slam winners out there. And Noah was one of the most popular players of the 80s, plus he captained the winning Davis Cup team in '91. And his French win was historic, first Frenchman to win there since the 40s.

It all depends on the individual. I think Roddick is a lock due to his wimbledon runnerups, #1 ranking, in addition to the US Open win.

Johannson & Costa didn't do much outside of their slam wins, & didn't have consistently high rankings. And their slam wins weren't historic like Noah's. I don't think they will get in.

Californication
01-27-2006, 01:14 PM
It looks that way. But Novotna & Sabatini are two of the more accomplished one slam winners out there. And Noah was one of the most popular players of the 80s, plus he captained the winning Davis Cup team in '91. And his French win was historic, first Frenchman to win there since the 40s.

It all depends on the individual. I think Roddick is a lock due to his wimbledon runnerups, #1 ranking, in addition to the US Open win.

Johannson & Costa didn't do much outside of their slam wins, & didn't have consistently high rankings. And their slam wins weren't historic like Noah's. I don't think they will get in.


That definitely makes sense. I feel that the HOF is becoming less prestigous as the years go on. I love Rafter and thought that eventually he should get into the HOF but to be a first ballot HOF'er is a bit dubious for a man who won only 11 singles titles. Costa, Gaudio, and Johannson can now make cases for the HOF, and Juan Carlos Ferrero looks like a shoo-in now as well.

wtaplayerz
01-27-2006, 01:18 PM
I totally agree.

VGP
01-27-2006, 01:28 PM
If we're discussing one-slammers like Costa, Gaudio, Ferrero, then Chang gets a bid before all these guys.

It does depend on the individual. If you factor in doubles, over title number, sustained rankings, ambassadorship of the game, sportsmanship, and character.....it has been and should be done on a case-by-case basis.

Michael Haller
01-27-2006, 03:31 PM
Hey guys, I'm a long time reader of the forums but I decided to join up and start posting.

By inducting Pat Rafter into the Hall of Fame, are the standards just getting too low? Rafter did win 3 Slams (2 US Open singles crowns, 1 AO doubles title), but in all Rafter won only 11 titles over his career. He was my favorite player when he was playing because of his amazing serve and volley style, but by letting him in, the standards are way too low. If Rafter gets in with 11 titles and 2 Slams, can Thomas Johansson now make an arguement that his 9 singles titles and 1 Slam deserve an HOF bid? Thomas should not even snif the Hall of Fame. Albert Costa won 12 singles titles and 1 Slam, should he be a Hall of Famer.

By inducting Rafter, Andy Roddick now becomes a cinch of a Hall of Famer. Roddick has won 20 singles titles, including 1 Slam title and 3 Super 9 titles. He has one less Slam title but will likely end his career with more than double Rafter's singles titles, and even with only 1 Slam that would be stronger than Rafter.

Did Rafter really deserve a HOF bid?

Well, Shriver is in ....

skip1969
01-27-2006, 03:43 PM
It does depend on the individual. If you factor in doubles, over title number, sustained rankings, ambassadorship of the game, sportsmanship, and character.....it has been and should be done on a case-by-case basis.

valid point. more importantly, how much does it matter? i mean, not to be rude or anything, but halls of fame . . . really. sports reporters and the cognoscenti argue about who should/should not be in til their blue in the face. and in the end . . . does it validate anything?

maybe the players care. some egos need strokin'. but the fans like who they like, no matter what. and the players know what lasting contributions they have made (or not made) for their sport.

Davidbrent
01-27-2006, 03:47 PM
I think it's hard to argue against Rafter's inclusion. It's not just the 2 US Opens and number one ranking. Don't forget that he also made 2 Wimbledon finals (narrow losses) and made the semi-finals of every slam at least once, even at the French where his game was not suited. Add on his Davis Cup achievements and I think he deserves it. What also helps him I think is that he is one of the great serve-volleyers of any era and it's good to have different types of players in there. I suppose it's easy to think his inclusion is a bit soft because there was never a period of time when he dominated the game at all, even when he was briefly number one. But I don't think that matters.

I hope every player that wins a slam doesn't get into the hall of fame because clearly players like Johansson and Iva Majoli don't deserve to be there. An interesting parallel can be drawn with the NBA - before last season you would have been crazy to suggest that Steve Nash should make the basketball hall of fame at the end of his career since he averages about 13ppg and 7ast over his career which are hardly awesome numbers. But then he won the MVP award last season and if you look at the list of MVP winners, all of them are either in the hall of fame or are certain to be there. So does Nash have to be there? I don't know.

dmastous
01-27-2006, 03:51 PM
So does every player who has won a Slam deserve a Hall of Fame bid?
I don't think winning a slam automatically puts you in the hall. I think in Noah and Novotna's case (and I think they are the low end of the standards of greatness BTW) they each won a slam and had a long and distiguished career in both singles and doubles (in fact each won mulitple doubles slams). They knocked on the door many times and won many other tournaments in addition to winning a slam.
In Badhadis' case if he wins this (the least of the slams) he will put his name in the hat. But if he wins this and dissapears, he will not have made his case.
Just my opnion. Who knows what the Hall thinks.

Moose Malloy
01-27-2006, 04:05 PM
What if Nash wins the MVP again this year? Barkley says he deserves it.
He's got a long way to go, maybe his stats will catch up to HOF numbers.

Davidbrent
01-27-2006, 04:16 PM
What if Nash wins the MVP again this year? Barkley says he deserves it.
He's got a long way to go, maybe his stats will catch up to HOF numbers.

At the risk of turning this into a Steve Nash thread - if he wins again this year he probably has to go in. A few more assist titles and a championship for Phoenix somewhere along the line and it becomes a no-brainer.

I actually think he deserves it this year - last year I was very critical of him winning it.

armand
01-27-2006, 06:37 PM
If Nash has 13ppg and 7apg and an MVP award then he's in, for sure. 13+7 = nearly 30 points he's responsible for. That ain't far behind Jordan.

As for the tennis hall of fame issue: I think someone should erect a Clay Court Hall of Fame. Celebrities invited to those induction galas would be the likes of Tom Arnold, Pauly Shore, Paul Reiser, Joey Buttafucco and the actress who played Sara Fischer in the made for tv movie(sorry, I forgot her name).