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NoBadMojo
01-27-2006, 03:50 PM
A couple people asked me to comment on the DNX10. I've had the chance to dance with it for a long session.
I like this frame a lot. Part of the reason is that it comes stock at about the same way I have modified my Gen1's to play. In fact, I would bet this frame comes from the Gen1 tool (mold), and I like that it is a true thin beamed frame with the classic Volkl kidney shaped profile.. it's typically Volkl and does everything well. it's at the fringe of my ablity to swing fast enough for the duration and played and swung like the specs
-Compared to my Gen1's it hits a more punishing ball from the backcourt
-I had no problem at all creating as much spin (both slice and top) as I wanted, so people shouldnt be too concerned about the 18mains pattern. But the only frames I've ever used which couldnt spin as much as i wanted are from the Radical series
-It also hits a heavier more piercing ball than the VEMid and Gen2, but is slighty harder to swing fast than both. It's almost as powerful as the 10MPVE but you dont get the feeling that the ball could fly on you. It gives you the 'I can swing out with this frame' feel you get with the VEMid, but you dont lose the benefit of the larger sweetspot like you do with the VEMid, which is very important when returnng serves against a good server and for when you must recover defensively.
Essentially, I feel this frame has some elements from all the 10series frames..it's very versitile and has a really nice soft feel to it, altho you can really feel how the DNX material firms things up.
18 mains arent my favorites to string and on my cheesy drop weight stringer, I had to rig an extra clamp and scrap piece of string to pull the last main on each side because I didnt have enough string. I dont use pro shop stringing machines on my personal frames. I strung this with 17ga Klip Legend in the mains and 17g Klip Excellerator in the crosses at a true 52.
This frame would be for people who generate their own power and who have good spin control. it's precise yet you can load it up and hit it hard, flatten it out, and it will pay off for you with powerful piercing heavy shots. For a basic ralley ball, I was getting good net clearance with a nice spinny trajectory and had no trouble hitting deep in the court. Volleys are typical Volkl 10series..they;re great. Am reserving judgment on the serve..it was a bit more work to produce the same results as my tricked up Gen1's, but it's early in the game. it's got a generous sweetspot. i like this frame a lot.

McGee
01-27-2006, 08:07 PM
Great review! Based on your comments it looks like a nice frame.

BTW, I noticed on another thread that you have a relationship with Volkl ....if that is true, your inside information is really helpful. Thanks!

foucapol
01-27-2006, 08:36 PM
Nobadmojo, if you have played with C7 pro, can you compare it with DNX 10? The specs and overall shapes are looking almost identical.

jackson vile
01-27-2006, 08:56 PM
You da man NBM:mrgreen:

lude popper
01-27-2006, 09:03 PM
A couple people asked me to comment on the DNX10. I've had the chance to dance with it for a long session.
I like this frame a lot. Part of the reason is that it comes stock at about the same way I have modified my Gen1's to play. In fact, I would bet this frame comes from the Gen1 tool (mold), and I like that it is a true thin beamed frame with the classic Volkl kidney shaped profile.. it's typically Volkl and does everything well. it's at the fringe of my ablity to swing fast enough for the duration and played and swung like the specs
-Compared to my Gen1's it hits a more punishing ball from the backcourt
-I had no problem at all creating as much spin (both slice and top) as I wanted, so people shouldnt be too concerned about the 18mains pattern. But the only frames I've ever used which couldnt spin as much as i wanted are from the Radical series
-It also hits a heavier more piercing ball than the VEMid and Gen2, but is slighty harder to swing fast than both. It's almost as powerful as the 10MPVE but you dont get the feeling that the ball could fly on you. It gives you the 'I can swing out with this frame' feel you get with the VEMid, but you dont lose the benefit of the larger sweetspot like you do with the VEMid, which is very important when returnng serves against a good server and for when you must recover defensively.
Essentially, I feel this frame has some elements from all the 10series frames..it's very versitile and has a really nice soft feel to it, altho you can really feel how the DNX material firms things up.
18 mains arent my favorites to string and on my cheesy drop weight stringer, I had to rig an extra clamp and scrap piece of string to pull the last main on each side because I didnt have enough string. I dont use pro shop stringing machines on my personal frames. I strung this with 17ga Klip Legend in the mains and 17g Klip Excellerator in the crosses at a true 52.
This frame would be for people who generate their own power and who have good spin control. it's precise yet you can load it up and hit it hard, flatten it out, and it will pay off for you with powerful piercing heavy shots. For a basic ralley ball, I was getting good net clearance with a nice spinny trajectory and had no trouble hitting deep in the court. Volleys are typical Volkl 10series..they;re great. Am reserving judgment on the serve..it was a bit more work to produce the same results as my tricked up Gen1's, but it's early in the game. it's got a generous sweetspot. i like this frame a lot.

that's enough for me. I love this frame already. your comments on the other volkls I've tried have been, in a word, EXACT....> just ordered a demo.

Ed Lee
01-28-2006, 04:57 AM
Nobadmojo,

Thank you for your thorough review. If you don't mind, I would be interested in your comparison of this racquet to the C10 Pro MP, if you can. Thanks for your consideration on this.

Marius_Hancu
01-28-2006, 05:09 AM
Yes, nice parameters in this racquet. Thanks for the review.

WChiang
01-28-2006, 06:24 AM
I'm moving from a LM Prestige mid and looking for something stable, but swings a bit easier, is good on the arm, and has a larger sweetspot (for my over 40 body ;) . This one seems to fit the bill perfectly....time for a demo. Thanks NBM.

chess9
01-28-2006, 06:39 AM
Nice review. I have two Volkls and regard their fit and finish as equal to the Yonex sticks in most cases.
I've been thinking about getting this racquet as my windy day/hangover day/I've just grown two left feet day stick. :) Besides, in a few more years someone will think I'm a senior. :)

Thanks NBMJ.

-Robert
________
How to use a whip vaporizer (http://vaporizer.org)

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 06:43 AM
-Thanks McGee

-foucapol I have never hit the C7, but used the c8pro for several years. Isnt the c7 quite light? the c series frames used the same mold as the c10 I think. the dnx10 seems to come from Tour10 heritage.

-thanks Luder. appreciate you

-thanks Jackson vile

-my pleasure Marius

-wChiang. Indeed the DNX10 may fit the bill for you. think you'll enjoy the demo

-Ed. vs the C10Pro it's similar but also quite different. Both seriously headlight thin beamed. C10Pro a lot more flexy in the upper hoop and more flexy overall. Both great all courters frames. DNX10 gives you bigger shots and seems a bit less work and that more of the energy gets transfered into the ball rather than absorbed in the flex of the frame altho the DNX10 has a very nice soft feel to it...the feel is kind of addicting as you get diff things going on within the sweetspot.

louis netman
01-28-2006, 08:46 AM
Thanx NBMJ! Although it may be a natural tendency for one to think that you may be "contractually" biased toward a specific brand, I find your reviews to be quite accurate and insightful. Your praise of the Slaz X1 and publicized discontent with the T10VE MP in the TW comparative is exemplary... I especially can't complain when you make comparisons between different (discontinued and current) 10 series frames...We all love your work (despite whatever misunderstandings sometimes develop in this forum ;-) )!!!

jonolau
01-28-2006, 08:58 AM
vs the C10Pro it's similar but also quite different. Both seriously headlight thin beamed. C10Pro a lot more flexy in the upper hoop and more flexy overall. Both great all courters frames. DNX10 gives you bigger shots and seems a bit less work and that more of the energy gets transfered into the ball rather than absorbed in the flex of the frame altho the DNX10 has a very nice soft feel to it...the feel is kind of addicting as you get diff things going on within the sweetspot.
Thanks, NBM, excellent review. I'm really hitting well with my T10VEMid but am looking for something with slightly larger sweetspot. Sounds like the DNX10 is the one I'm looking for. BTW, is this the 325 that you reviewed? Also, is it the same frame that Martin Damm was using for the AO men's doubles?

vin
01-28-2006, 09:05 AM
Hey Mojo,

Great review! Do you know if the ligher version (295g I think) of the DNX 10 is coming to the US?

Rabbit
01-28-2006, 09:52 AM
I noticed that the DNX 10 has the same bumper guard configuration as the older C10. It does not have the full wrap bumper guard that later models do.

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 10:07 AM
thanks Louis. i'm an objective guy and i call em' as i see em' in spite of people feeling the need to constantly badger about 'alleged' sponsorships along with all the other insecuritues and crap that goes on around here. i'm aware that more than one manufacturer can make good products, and i'm sure not opposed to giving props to other products <or people>.
thanks jono. i should have specified, but i'm working out with the 325g version. yes, Martin Damm is using the DNX10 and playing it stock as I understand it. that was quite a dubs match eh?
vin there arent plans to bring the lighter one to the States at this time that i am aware of. i really doubt that will happen but you never know.
Rabbit, seems Volkl has gone away from the Power Rap bumpers on all the DNX frames..makes sense with them concentrating the weight on the wings rather than weighting it all around the head like w. the PRaps.

TennisMD
01-28-2006, 10:10 AM
Rabbit:

Any thoughts on the dnx 10 or the 8. Always interesting on ones perception of heaviness of ball struck or power, If you look at the power formula( head size X Swing wt X flex divided by 1000) the Gen 1 and 2 come in at 2020 and the dnx will be in the 1900 range. Also TW 5.5 Reviewer Granville gave the gen 1 a very low power score and most of the reps at TW agree. So I am a bit dubious about the piercing heavy ball comment on the new dnx. So any other Volkl officianados comments are welcome. Also Rabbit your comments on an older skilled player taking advantage of a lighter rkt to keep up with the youngsters is what has gotten me thinking about some new demos the dnx would not fit your category or would it? Also thoughts on the dnx 8

Ed Lee
01-28-2006, 10:29 AM
Thanks for your quick reply and the information, NBM. Your input is invaluable to these boards!

Ed

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 11:44 AM
Rabbit:

Any thoughts on the dnx 10 or the 8. Always interesting on ones perception of heaviness of ball struck or power, If you look at the power formula( head size X Swing wt X flex divided by 1000) the Gen 1 and 2 come in at 2020 and the dnx will be in the 1900 range. Also TW 5.5 Reviewer Granville gave the gen 1 a very low power score and most of the reps at TW agree. So I am a bit dubious about the piercing heavy ball comment on the new dnx. So any other Volkl officianados comments are welcome. Also Rabbit your comments on an older skilled player taking advantage of a lighter rkt to keep up with the youngsters is what has gotten me thinking about some new demos the dnx would not fit your category or would it? Also thoughts on the dnx 8

I'm not Rabbit, but since you wish to be dubious about my review, may I please suggest that your formula for power level is seriously incomplete. Secondly, having played with the Gen1 for at least 3 years, I am here to say that this frame can be set up to play VERY powerfully as almost all heavier frames can, and it is significantly more powerful than the Gen2. Thirdly, I was hitting a very niece heavy piercing ball with the DNX10 as I reported and feel I am qualified to discern the differences.
To sumarize, if you wish to be dubious and discredit peoples' reviews, I suggest that you at least start with correct information (formula) and if good enough to tell, base your dubiosity (that aint a word) on actual on court experiences as power formulas (even when correct) are rough guidelines at best. Additionally, you really went out of your way to try and discredit what I wrote by digging up Granville's review of a discontinued frame.
I think having the DNX material at 3 and 9 and above the collar cuff does indeed have something to do with power levels, as does materials in the layup, tweaking weight distrbution, string density, and a bunch of other abba dabba not included in the power level formula. People who know tennis also know that pretty much all modern racquets are powerful racquets when the sweetspot is struck (especially heavier ones provided someone has te ability to swing them fast enough). it's when the sweetspot is missed that the stiffness of a frame helps maintain power.

McGee
01-28-2006, 12:27 PM
if you wish to be dubious and discredit peoples' reviews, I suggest that you at least start with correct information (formula) and if good enough to tell, base your dubiosity (that aint a word) on actual on court experiences as power formulas (even when correct) are rough guidelines at best. Additionally, you really went out of your way to try and discredit what I wrote by digging up Granville's review of a discontinued frame.


Dude, chill out :) I don't think that TennisMD was attacking your review at all. He had just heard conflicting opinions re: power levels and "in his opinion" the information was in doubt for his needs. Based on my short time here, TennisMD appears to be one of the good ones! Actually, other opinions from Volkl users such as Rabbit re: the DNX 10 and 8 for us "aging" players would be helpful.

texcoug
01-28-2006, 01:00 PM
This must be a great review because the thread has those cool stars! How did those pop up?

foucapol
01-28-2006, 01:15 PM
-foucapol I have never hit the C7, but used the c8pro for several years. Isnt the c7 quite light? the c series frames used the same mold as the c10 I think. the dnx10 seems to come from Tour10 heritage.

OK, the C7 I have is 12.1oz strung (with no added weight), 7pts HL, 19mm, 18*20 pattern. It is a little flexy frame. So, I expect DNX10 plays very closely to C7 Pro. Thanks anyway.

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 01:17 PM
Thanks for your quick reply and the information, NBM. Your input is invaluable to these boards!

Ed

thanks man.......

Rabbit
01-28-2006, 02:25 PM
mojo, I don't think tennismd was in the attack mode either.

Tell you the truth, guys, I haven't hit with the DNX 10. The local pro shop here is cutting back on stocking so called players' frames because quite frankly, the sales aren't there for them. I may order a demo from TW and give it a whirl. I think mojo's reviews have been in-line with what I feel. The only difference we have had is on the Gen II. IMO, it played much stiffer than the C10. The amazing thing was the C10's second ingredient was kevlar and the Gen II was fibreglass. This seems contradictory to the ingredients, but there you have it.

From just looking at the specs of the new DNX 10, it appears that it is very close to the original C10. I should also note that I am very happy with my Cat 8's and once I settle into a frame, I kind of like to stick with it. When it warms up, I'll see about getting a DNX 10 to hit with and post a review.

TennisMD
01-28-2006, 02:49 PM
McGee and Rabbit thank you for your thoughts. I do not wish to turn this into another animosity session. However i do know what i read and the rkt sports industry list certain intinsic power ratings to rkts and the numbers listed for the gen 1 and the gen 2 are right out of the 2004 and 2005 magazine and the formula I quoted is one formula used. Now before paranoia set in my question was are these accurate in other hitters opinions and as I stated my only purpose in this thread is I have been interested in the theories both rabbit and Mojo have stated about lighter SW and giving an advantage as an older player, as rabbit switched from a C10 to the Cat8 V engine. So again just questions this is a fun hobby for me nothing more

emerckx53
01-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Dude, chill out :) I don't think that TennisMD was attacking your review at all. He had just heard conflicting opinions re: power levels and "in his opinion" the information was in doubt for his needs. Based on my short time here, TennisMD appears to be one of the good ones! Actually, other opinions from Volkl users such as Rabbit re: the DNX 10 and 8 for us "aging" players would be helpful.

There are some around here that don't allow free speech...when it comes to reviews of their reviews....:rolleyes: the dick sizing contest continues. I got a DNX 10 demo today...I am 45 years of age. I will be able to compare it to the ve93 only however...I will let you know tennis md-

jackson vile
01-28-2006, 03:02 PM
I don't think anyone else currently on this board is more qualified to review and judge the Volkl rackets.


I trust NBMJ opinions as I have many times found the exact same to be true, so now I listen instead of blabing.:mrgreen:

texcoug
01-28-2006, 03:06 PM
I still want to know about the gold stars.

DANMAN
01-28-2006, 03:17 PM
The stars are the rating of the thread. You can rate the thread at the top of the page. Also, Nobadmojo, in my opinion, is one of the best posters on the board. Keeping 'em coming mojo.

louis netman
01-28-2006, 03:54 PM
OK, the C7 I have is 12.1oz strung (with no added weight), 7pts HL, 19mm, 18*20 pattern. It is a little flexy frame. So, I expect DNX10 plays very closely to C7 Pro. Thanks anyway.

Spec-wise it's similar. However, I think the differences will theoretically, be related to the disimilarity in material composition and handle system. The C7, I believe, is all graphite whereas the DNX 10 is a composite of graphite, fiberglass, and DNX (whatever that is). In addition, the old C7 pallets are glued straight onto the frame shaft/handle, as opposed to the DNX 10 having the Sensor Tour System (a layer of shock absorbing foam uander the pallet, at the frame-handle/pallet junction).

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 04:07 PM
mojo, I don't think tennismd was in the attack mode either.



Rabbit, I didnt say the guy was attacking me, i said he was disputing me based upon some formula and no grounds whatsoever. He said he was dubious that the DNX10 would hit a heavy piercing ball based upon a formula tied to the formula of another racquet which some playtester said was low powered, after I just spent an hour 45 hitting heavy piercing balls with this frame. that's very much a stretch and really looking for any little possible way to disagree.
I think you would agree that if you put 12.5 ozs on a ball, hit it flush, swing it fast using good technique, with gut strung at 52 pounds that it is reasonable you would hit a heavy ball. These are all only tennis racquets after all..none of them have magical properties. He also says that the Gen1 and gen2 must have identical power levels because of the formula when they arent even close (I say this havng played the Gen1 for 3 years and carrying a Gen2 in my bag for a few months as well). if he wishes to base his decisions on some formula which is a guideline at best, then why even ask people what they think.
It's fine to disagree with me, but I dont think it reasonable to be disputed in unreasonable and ridiculous ways..ways that are really a stretch.,,if someone spent some time with this frame. knows what they are talking about, then fine...we disagree, but even at that racquets obviously work differently in different peoples hands. this guy was just looking for anything to pick away at. see ya Rabbit.

Richie Rich
01-28-2006, 04:41 PM
NBM,

did you get a chance to hit some serve returns and b/h slice approaches? i've hit with the T10Gen II and the T10VE mid and found both racquets kind of "mushy" when blocking back hard serves. is the DNX 10 a little stiffer?

how i wish i could have my c10PT's back :(

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 05:01 PM
NBM,

did you get a chance to hit some serve returns and b/h slice approaches? i've hit with the T10Gen II and the T10VE mid and found both racquets kind of "mushy" when blocking back hard serves. is the DNX 10 a little stiffer?

how i wish i could have my c10PT's back :(

aye Rich. I put a frame through every shot i can think of when i playtest them. Service returns were great with this frame as were bh sliced approaches and those chipped backhand service returns hit up high on kickers you follow into the net. I hear what you are saying about the mushiness of the gen2 and VeMid, and that is why i've been using the Gen1's..it's better at those types of shots and the head holds up better and returns more energy into the shot i think. I had trouble with my service returns on the VEMid because while the sweetspot is plenty long, it wasnt wide enough for me on service returns and the frame was a bit too mushy for me with those slight misshits and I coughed up some exploitable balls. The Gen2 was easier to flush hit, but I just couldnt get enough work on my shots.
If you've played the Gen1, the DNX10 plays like a more headlight version of that frame. The DNX material must be stiff and it really does put the crispness and pace into those types of shots, but you still get a really nice softer feel.

mark1
01-28-2006, 06:33 PM
There are some around here that don't allow free speech...when it comes to reviews of their reviews....:rolleyes: the dick sizing contest continues. I got a DNX 10 demo today...I am 45 years of age. I will be able to compare it to the ve93 only however...I will let you know tennis md-


i would be very interested in that comparison. I play with the ve93 as well. If you could comment also on swingweight, flex, and power level comparisons that would be perfect.

Thanks, Mark

jonolau
01-28-2006, 08:54 PM
The stars are the rating of the thread. You can rate the thread at the top of the page. Also, Nobadmojo, in my opinion, is one of the best posters on the board. Keeping 'em coming mojo.
Hear, hear!

kinsella
01-28-2006, 09:01 PM
NBM -- I thought your original post was articulate and thoughtful. Most of us are grown ups and keep our grains of salt handy in everything we read and hear. I think it is fair for people to consider things like power formulas to get another perspective on racquets but agree with you that they miss so many important factors that I would give them very little weight in my consideration. I can look at the weight, balance, string pattern, beam and flex and get an idea of the stick's power.

But I believe the most powerful thing a racquet can do is give a player the comfort and confidence to hit out. For some, that is a stiff, light, head heavy racquet. I prefer heavier, HL, flexible sticks, but who cares? The game you play is the thing, not the stick.

Am I getting too philisophical so late at night? Can I possibly stay up so late to watch the AUssie final in real time? I think not.

Good night. Be kind to each other.

jonolau
01-28-2006, 09:10 PM
IMO, I used to play very well and confidently with my Volkls until I made a mistake of experimenting outside the circle. I tried first with a Head FXP Tour, and then also with a Wilson Pro Staff 7.5. I did that for 3 months and totally lost the support of my playing partners. They commented that my game had gone down the drain and advised me to get rid of the new frames.

I did so, and with no regrets! All of a sudden I was a transformed player once more. I could hit my groundstrokes with ease and make no mistake. My volleys were solid and well-directed.

I will always be an ardent Volkl supporter, but only for the best reasons. Volkl makes no-frills (marketing wise), old-school feel racquets in modern packaging. Wonderfully buttery and effortless on groundstrokes, powerful flat bombs and extremely forgiving on mishits.

And once again, it's great to have a person like NoBadMojo contribute his invalubale advice on this board!!!

NoBadMojo
01-28-2006, 09:48 PM
NBM -- I thought your original post was articulate and thoughtful. Most of us are grown ups and keep our grains of salt handy in everything we read and hear. I think it is fair for people to consider things like power formulas to get another perspective on racquets but agree with you that they miss so many important factors that I would give them very little weight in my consideration. I can look at the weight, balance, string pattern, beam and flex and get an idea of the stick's power.

But I believe the most powerful thing a racquet can do is give a player the comfort and confidence to hit out. For some, that is a stiff, light, head heavy racquet. I prefer heavier, HL, flexible sticks, but who cares? The game you play is the thing, not the stick.

Am I getting too philisophical so late at night? Can I possibly stay up so late to watch the AUssie final in real time? I think not.

Good night. Be kind to each other.

Thanks guys.......

thanks John. grains of salt it is as none of this is a biggie in the greater cosmos........and I cant stay awake for the Open either..thank goodness for TIVO. be well.

bamboo
01-29-2006, 05:28 AM
I don't think anyone else currently on this board is more qualified to review and judge the Volkl rackets.


NBM has no objectivity - he is as over-the-top a Volkl promoter as the Vantage guy was of his company. Anyone who makes the slightest comment that is not slavish flattery to him and Volkl is attacked as knowing nothing about the game, and driving worthwhile posters off the board. Guess what? Most teaching pros don't know anything - NBM denies stability is a factor in racquet evaluation when it gets an entire chapter in The Physics and Technology of Tennis.

Rabbit
01-29-2006, 07:06 AM
mojo - on the other hand, this is clearly an unwarranted attack.

jonolau
01-29-2006, 07:15 AM
Just ignore him.

NoBadMojo
01-29-2006, 08:16 AM
Stuff like this always happens around here..it's too bad especially since his comments are way off base and a total distortion of something I may have said. All I said is that I believe the term 'stablity' is not the right term unto itself. I believe the term to be used properly should be 'stablity on miss hits', as I think all racquets (even modern light ones) are stable within the sweetspot.
And to compare my praising Volkl and Fischer, and some PK frames and the Slaz X1, etc in any way to what happened here with the over the top Vantage stuff is ludicrous.
Amazing this is what the guy THINKS he has on me and that somehow warrants an attack..pathetic.

TennisMD
01-29-2006, 09:34 AM
To borrow from the moniker of one of the the other posters, OH PLEASE. Getting back to the facts.
1) First of all I addressed this to rabbit and other volkl users for a second opinion.
2) the reason being that mojo has stated the volkl gen 1 hits with power, that is his opinion, However other skilled players ,TW Granville, rated it as underpowered. Also RSI magazine does use an intrinsic power formula which would give the new DNX a lower intrinsic power than the Gen 1. Also mojo in his address to Marcus H stated the gen 2 was low powered. So one can see the confusion. So there are two issues 1) what do other skilled hitters think? my original intention for this post. 2) maybe the RSI formula does not take into ac**** technology and I like to hear others opinion, I personally do not think the formula is an accurate assesment of rkt power. Thank you for all answers regarding these two points.

louis netman
01-29-2006, 11:58 AM
I have performed fairly controlled experiments with all the 10 series MP frames, minus the DNX 10. Here is my assessment of power levels from low to high: Gen 2, C10, Gen 1, VE....

Although controlled, there may be potential flaws in the findings. I swung the rackets as opposed to a mechnical swinging device. In addition, power level was rated subjectively by myself and my hitting partner. To minimize bias/error due to fatigue effects, I engaged in multiple outings with different chronological order of frames.

Hope this helps...

NoBadMojo
01-29-2006, 12:00 PM
Even though TennisMD isnt looking for additional input from me, perhaps we can bring this part of the discussion to conclusion since nobody else is bellying up to the bar
#1 - TennsMD sez the USRSA shows the power levels of the Gen1 and Gen2 to be precisely the same. While that is what they may say, that is an error since the Gen1 is of greater swingweight and also greater stiffness and therefore the power level of the Gen1 would be higher than the Gen2
As an aside, as i understand it, the USRSA publishes specs based upon the testing of a SINGLE frame and I think people can see how these power numbers can be flawed for a myriad of reasons if only ONE frame is tested. TW specs are far more trustwothy because they take the ave of test results of several frames. Even given a frame which is on spec, and assuming the manufacturer hasnt changed specs since the single frame was tested, these power level numbers are only a guideline at best.
#C - The Gen1 is a matrix of graphite and titanium and the Gen a matrix of Graphite and Fiberglass. I would hope most would agree that the Gen1 is<by its nature> a more powerful layup. I realize therecan be exceptions to everything, but not in this case here
#5 - I've been playing the Gen1's for over 3 years and have a couple months hitting exeriences with the Gen2 and my hitting experiences indicate that the Gen1 has significantly more juice (not a technical term i know nor based upon a formula) than the Gen2
As to the DNX10, it's really a nice hit and much along the lines of the Gen1, but a bit more headlight. It's really a really good solid all around frame, and the graphics are really nice (i realize this is one thing that is subjective). I am getting that 'I can swing out' precise feel with the DNX10 and with the Gen1 I can get more of a 'loosey goosey' <not a technical term> feel

It isnt important that I prove anyone wrong..my motivation is merely trying to make sure people get good information, and maybe by way of this people may have a better understanding about things like 'power levels'. I think the power level coupled with swingweight and sweetspotsize can get you well on track to choosing a right racquet . I think the power level formula can be improved. I think they should also put a multiplier in there for string density, as typically denser strngbeds are less powerful stringbeds given the same string and tension altho the 18mains patern of the DNX10 doesnt play so dense. I previously suggested to TW that they include power levels with the rest of their specs as a general guideline. If others agree, maybe they can start a thread in the TW Q's portion of the forum

NoBadMojo
01-29-2006, 12:06 PM
oops..didnt see your post Louis and I agree with your sequence. additionally <and purely from a power level> i would add the rest of the 10series frames ---> Gen2 and VEMid ---> C10Pro98 --> Gen1 and DNX10 ---> T10MPVE.
Cant help with any of the other Volkl Midsizers.

louis netman
01-29-2006, 12:18 PM
NBMJ, you make an excellent point about the statistical calculations. The slight inaccuracy that results from the manufacturing tolerances/inconsistencies may have a monumental impact in the overall calculation of power, especially with the multiplier in the formula. These inconsistencies may arise in all the variables except headsize (thankfully so ;-)).Therefore, it is imperative that the mean/average of several randomly selected samples should be used in determining the specs. Another good point is your mention of string pattern, which is not accounted for in the formula, but has quite a tremendous effect on a frame's overall power level...

NoBadMojo
01-29-2006, 03:09 PM
Thanks Louis.....any idea what sort of multiplier you would put for a more dense stringbed? You really have to be careful with multipliers as they also radically change the outcome depending upon the position in the formula. I know with the power level formula, they put the length multiplier first, so maybe the stringbed multiplier would go second? or first? ..i know! maybe we could stick it at the end??? It would simply be some fraction of 1 for a dense stringbed. Maybe someine could play with the multiplier with some examples to come up with something reasonable.
For reference the formula is ----> (length index x headsize x flex x swingweight) / 1000
I dont have the current power levels in Excel format to stick the multiplier on, but we could easily do that and maybe TW can post it within the forum somewhere, and it may help people?

TennisMD
01-29-2006, 05:44 PM
Mojo;
your input is welcome and this what I was looking for as I also believe the formula does not really re flect the rkts playing power. The formulae would give the Head FP tour a low rating too and I find it has juice on the goundies and volleys, my discontent was that it is unpredictable re serves. I have two not really used gen 1 that can be strung up. I needed feed back before stringing since I use gut. So thanks for the info.

TennisMD
01-29-2006, 06:01 PM
Mojo;
your input is welcome and this what I was looking for as I also believe the formula does not really re flect the rkts playing power. The formulae would give the Head FP tour a low rating too and I find it has juice on the goundies and volleys, my discontent was that it is unpredictable re serves. I have two not really used gen 1 that can be strung up. I needed feed back before stringing since I use gut. So thanks for the info.

jonolau
01-29-2006, 06:12 PM
Mojo;
your input is welcome and this what I was looking for as I also believe the formula does not really re flect the rkts playing power. The formulae would give the Head FP tour a low rating too and I find it has juice on the goundies and volleys, my discontent was that it is unpredictable re serves. I have two not really used gen 1 that can be strung up. I needed feed back before stringing since I use gut. So thanks for the info.
TennisMD, I would personally have to say that the FXP Tour is extremely low-powered compared to the Volkl Tour 10 VE Mid. The FXP tour felt like a snail on groundstrokes and I really had to accelerate with explosive force just to give it that extra power on flat returns. However, with the t10vemid or c10Pro, flat shots were a breeze and was so much smoother and easier to generate topspin with an Eastern grip compared to the FXP tour. Sorry to say this, but I'm trashing my FXP Tour and have put it up for sale.

Volkls are really addictive, and for good reason. You get great bang for your buck, and nothing, and I mean nothing, comes close to the feel and flex on these smooth buttery babies!

bamboo
01-29-2006, 06:30 PM
Technical Tennis discusses the power of racquets on pgs. 13-26; the physics is not all that difficult, and it contains facts as opposed to ad hoc statements. The book is available fron TW and is well worth the price, rather than wasting time with the childish oversimplified formulas in this discussion.

NoBadMojo
01-29-2006, 07:06 PM
no problemo tennisMD. I think the power level numbers could be a useful starting point if the data input was accurate. Take the Gen1 and Gen2's we've benn discussing. With the higher SW of the Gen1 and firmer flex, the Power level should have been higher than the Gen2, and more a reflection of how they play if they had the specs right. If TW used their specs and did the power levels, we would be on to something I think
While all of the 10series frames would be classified as 'low powered', the beauty of the 10series frames is that they lend themselves well to a broad range of tensions and string types. Since you are toying with the Gen1's, that frame would play well between 45 and 65 pounds i think.
I have mine setup at tensions between 57 and 60 in the summer and around 55 in the winter with gut and gut hybrids. I've been using the Klip Legend ArmourPro which should be out quite soon, and highly recommend that string if you dont already have cache of gut somewhere.

saf
01-30-2006, 08:41 AM
NBM,

Thanks for your thoughts on the DNX 10. I'm going to try putting some thin poly in the mains and a soft 18g in the crosses. I really like this frame too. I'm just having a hard time making up my mind as to what I want to go with. Hopefully by summer I'll have it figured out.

Thanks again and take care...

NoBadMojo
01-30-2006, 11:57 AM
NBM,

Thanks for your thoughts on the DNX 10. I'm going to try putting some thin poly in the mains and a soft 18g in the crosses. I really like this frame too. I'm just having a hard time making up my mind as to what I want to go with. Hopefully by summer I'll have it figured out.

Thanks again and take care...

yw saf. let us know how that string setup plays for you.

BreakPoint
01-30-2006, 12:04 PM
TennisMD, I would personally have to say that the FXP Tour is extremely low-powered compared to the Volkl Tour 10 VE Mid. The FXP tour felt like a snail on groundstrokes and I really had to accelerate with explosive force just to give it that extra power on flat returns. However, with the t10vemid or c10Pro, flat shots were a breeze and was so much smoother and easier to generate topspin with an Eastern grip compared to the FXP tour. Sorry to say this, but I'm trashing my FXP Tour and have put it up for sale.


Very interesting, as personally, I've found almost the exact opposite to be true. I found the FXP Radical Tour to be much more powerful than the T10 VE Mid. I could hit huge serves with the FXP Tour (about as good as any racquet I've ever hit with in this department), but my serves were weak with the T10 VE Mid. Same with groundstrokes, I thought the FXP Tour gave me abundant power (actually, too much power which is why I didn't switch to it), whereas, with the T10 VE Mid, I felt overpowered and weak and had a much harder time defending against and competing with hard hitters. The FXP Tour also felt substantial in my hands, whereas, the T10 VE Mid felt too light and flimsy in my hands. Anyway, that's just been my personal experience, and like they say, "different strokes for different folks", and "your mileage may vary". I think differences in strokes, ability, physical characteristics, types of shots usually hit, level of competition, and type of strings and tension can all have an influence on how one perceives a certain racquet. This is why so many people can have different opinions on the same racquet, and why it's so hard to recommend a racquet for someone else without first seeing how they play.

BTW, I agree that the Gen I felt more powerful than the Gen II. However, I felt the T10 VE MP to be very close to the Gen I in power. Just my 2 cents.

danix
01-30-2006, 01:18 PM
I don't think NBMJ is biased toward Volkl, and I don't always agree with his reviews. But I will confirm that the T10MP hits a heavier ball than the G2, while the G2 swings a little faster and is slightly better at net. I also know what he means about his modified T10MP because I modified one myself, using the same method.

I will reserve opinion on the VNX10 until I can test it (I've jumped to Dunlop for the time being) but I have no reason to doubt that his review is truthful and largely accurate, though of course subjective.

Go Tennis
01-30-2006, 04:46 PM
A couple of weeks ago, by the time I was using the Tour 10 Gen 1 (now I went back to my old Classic 6.1), I buy the heavier DNX 10. IMO this raket plays better with 16g.

jonolau
01-30-2006, 05:03 PM
Very interesting, as personally, I've found almost the exact opposite to be true. I found the FXP Radical Tour to be much more powerful than the T10 VE Mid. I could hit huge serves with the FXP Tour (about as good as any racquet I've ever hit with in this department), but my serves were weak with the T10 VE Mid. Same with groundstrokes, I thought the FXP Tour gave me abundant power (actually, too much power which is why I didn't switch to it), whereas, with the T10 VE Mid, I felt overpowered and weak and had a much harder time defending against and competing with hard hitters. The FXP Tour also felt substantial in my hands, whereas, the T10 VE Mid felt too light and flimsy in my hands. Anyway, that's just been my personal experience, and like they say, "different strokes for different folks", and "your mileage may vary". I think differences in strokes, ability, physical characteristics, types of shots usually hit, level of competition, and type of strings and tension can all have an influence on how one perceives a certain racquet. This is why so many people can have different opinions on the same racquet, and why it's so hard to recommend a racquet for someone else without first seeing how they play.
In that case, I have a FXP Tour up for grabs. Interested? Either that or will trade for your T10 VE MP.

I would say that Volkl is more stable overall.

BreakPoint
01-30-2006, 07:07 PM
In that case, I have a FXP Tour up for grabs. Interested? Either that or will trade for your T10 VE MP.

I would say that Volkl is more stable overall.

Thanks for the offer, but like I said above, I thought the FXP Rad Tour was just too powerful for me. I also never pulled the trigger and bought a T10 VE MP, although I demoed it twice and also did a playtest of it for TW. I liked it but ultimately it was, again, too powerful for me and I thought it had a few hot spots on the stringbed which would sometimes cause the ball to go flying way out for no apparent reason. I also sold the two T10 MP Gen I's that I owned for the same reason - it was just too powerful (and I also thought it had a slight tinny feel to it (perhaps due to the titanium?) compared to the graphite/kevlar ProStaffs).

Anyway, if you like the T10 VE Mids, you ought to just stick with it. :D

Two Fister
01-30-2006, 09:23 PM
I'm going to try putting some thin poly in the mains and a soft 18g in the crosses.

I liked this racquet so much after the demo, I bought one. (Just one, cuz I still like my AeroProDrives). If I continue to like it, I'll buy another.

So far I've strung it with some syn gut that came with the demo, Head FXP 17g at 57 lbs, Prince Syn Gut Duraflex 17g at 52 lbs, and Kirschbaum Competition at 51 lbs.

I am liking the Kirschbaum the best so far, then the PSGD. I think I like the lower tensions better than the higher tensions (maybe because of the tight string pattern). It felt a bit more harsh and boardy with the FXP at 57 lbs.

I love to string, so I don't mind trying a bunch of different strings and tensions.

BTW, I think this DNX 10 has the coolest paintjob (metallic gold) of any of the 8 or so racquets that I've owned in the last 20 years. I also have Volkl Carver Ultra ski's.

jonolau
01-31-2006, 12:24 AM
Anyway, if you like the T10 VE Mids, you ought to just stick with it. :D
Yup, to each his own. I am very certain that Volkl has the right racquets in terms of overall comfort, feel and control.

Am just keen to get my hands on the DNX10 325gm.

saf
01-31-2006, 04:25 AM
Guys,

I am still tinkering with what stick I am going to go with. I know for sure I am going to wait until after the DNX 9 comes out to give it a shot. Then I will likely go with either the T 10 VEMP, DNX 10 or the DNX 9 if I like it. Want to be settled into a frame by spring so that I can train for summer tourney play with it.

I am still fairly young and learning a lot about racquets. So still have many questions. In college I used the Wilson 6.6's (Courier) and then finished my career with the 6.1's. Since then I have primarily played with the Prince PPRTi. It's been hard on my arm (not as bad as 6.1's), and want something better from the baseline. I attribute much of the harshness on the arm due to the fact I was stringing my PPRTi's over 70 to gain more control. Still did not give me what I needed.

Since tinkering with the Volkls all fall and winter, my arm and wrist problems have vanished. I like the idea of being able to string near the recommended tension, or with lower tensions.

My main question is... I've noticed that when playing with the DNX 10 (18 main) when I miss, I miss short more often than when playing with a 16x19 frame. Is this to be expected? It's a bit of a dillema for me, because I play agressive, high risk tennis. I'd rather miss long than short. I don't like my opponent getting the confidence or the idea that he is going to get anything short from me to play with. it could be something that time with the frame could iron out, but is that the norm when comparing 18 mains vs 16 mains? It's been so long since I've played consistently with and 18m racquet (Early college). And to be honest, at that time I did not think much about what was in my hand. I just grabbed a stick, swung hard and tried to win with whatever was in my hand. Since then I'd like to think I've become a little wiser, however, I'm still learning...

Thanks for any thoughts...

louis netman
01-31-2006, 07:41 AM
You will likely experience an adjustment phase by switching from open to denser patterns. Most players may require a slight alteration in swing to avoid hitting the dreaded short ball. Every frame takes some time to become adjusted to, the more disimilar the variables, the more time it may take... Be patient and spend time with what it is that most thoroughly suits your needs because the accuracy of dense vs open is one you should seriously consider. There was an excellent post recently on this subject that did an excellent job of explaining the phenomenon. It may be in this thread...Good luck!

NoBadMojo
01-31-2006, 08:01 AM
aye saf,
i'm not there to see your game, but can make a couple generalities about denser stringbeds and maybe something will fit
- denser stringbeds almost always require less string tension to get the same depth as 16mains frames. In my case I am using 52 pounds in the DNX10 vs about 58 in the Gen1. (winter)
-denser stringbeds generally make for smaller sweetspots..smaller sweetspots make for more misshits, and misshits produce short balls
If I remember some of your posts the DNX10 may be sightly heavy for you? If so, you may wish to try the Gen2 (dont know if you hit that one yet). It's low powered and very comfortable and 16mains and a bit easier to swing fast.

saf
01-31-2006, 08:40 AM
Thanks NBM and Louis!

I need to pull out the Gen 1 again. It's been a long time. I tinkered with it a little last summer, however, that was during a time that I was not wanting to switch frames. I also think I strung it a little too tight at the time. I might try it again with a poly hybrid at a little lower tension.

I remember I liked the frame, just thought it was a little under powered. However, a different string set up could help with that.

The DNX 10 I have weighs in at 11.7 strung (stock no over grip). It does not feel too heavy to swing. The cosmetic version I had early was 12.2 strung stock (little heavy to my liking). Considerable difference! My rep said that's why you never trust or evaluate solely off a cosmetic version.

Where's your demo sit weight wise NBM?

Thanks again!!!

SAF

NoBadMojo
01-31-2006, 11:23 AM
this may be long and pls excuse typos......but maybe it will help someone

saf, i almost never weigh my frames, preferring to go by how they feel. also static weight doesnt really mean much as far as playability goes nor when matching frames. swingweight is where you want them to match.
if you look in the currenty active Vantage thread, you will see a post by a guy who bought 3? Vantage frames and had them matched for weight and balance. he said they had a swingweight swing of 10points <which is HUGE> while they had the same weight and balance. these frames would play sgnificantly different.
to answer your question, yes prototype frames play dfferently than production frames, and early cosmetic versions of frames play differently than main stream production frames quite usually. also manufacturers change specs sometimes. if you detect slightly different cosmetics (cosmetic coding) between your frames it is very likely the specs and possibility the playabilty will differ.
The prototype I had of the DNX10 was heavy, the early production frame i have now is lighter, but it feels like 320sw stock and i think the target spec on this frame is 315. i have no idea what it weighs, and probably approaches 325sw with volkl leather (which is heavier), overgrip, and fischer vibrastop.
Another example is that of the T10VEMP's i had, and the only ones I have ever had checked for specs recently that I can think of. There were 4 of them..3 felt the same to me and one felt a bit harder to swing. I had them checked and the 3 were within 2-3 swingweight points of one another and the 4th was higher..this was also the one with the different cosmetic coding (midplus designation in red rather than black). Same thing happened with the Gen2's.
So if you keep say 3 frames in rotation it is always a good idea to buy them at the same time and with the same cosmetic coding. Volkl specs are very tight...but always a good idea to get them at the same time from the same version.
If you arent sure as if you will stick with the frame, buy 3 anyway, be creative and you can always only have to sell one if you change your mind..if you know what i mean.

saf
01-31-2006, 11:49 AM
Great advice. I appreciate the info. That's why I like to ask questions, so I can learn. Thanks for taking time to educate myself and others.

Take care, and I'm posting a new thread with complete DNX 9 specs.

Thanks!

Two Fister
01-31-2006, 10:37 PM
Thanks NBM and Louis!


The DNX 10 I have weighs in at 11.7 strung (stock no over grip). It does not feel too heavy to swing. The cosmetic version I had early was 12.2 strung stock (little heavy to my liking). Considerable difference! My rep said that's why you never trust or evaluate solely off a cosmetic version.

SAF

My demo DNX 10 weighed 11.8 strung with a Babolat vs overgrip.

My purchased DNX 10 weighs 11.8 oz or 336 g with a Bab VS overgrip strung with Kirshbaum Competition.

Doesn't swing like a heavy racquet at all to me. I'm used to an AeroProDrive+ and it does seem to swing very similar to this racquet.

saf
02-01-2006, 04:40 AM
Great Two Fister! Hopefully that's indicitave of the norm. Just under 12.0 oz. Thanks...

mark1
02-01-2006, 05:59 AM
it would be sweet if mine weighed around 11.8oz...

NoBadMojo
02-01-2006, 07:04 PM
string those DNX10's low....

Two Fister
02-01-2006, 07:11 PM
string those DNX10's low....

When I string my old puredrives too low they feel trampoline like. But the DNX 10 at 51 lbs with Kirschbaum Competition does not have the trampoline feel at all. Of course it is a poly string. Still lots of control. Pretty good power (not as much power as my AeroProDrive+).

jonolau
02-01-2006, 11:47 PM
string those DNX10's low....
NBM, what is your view of aramids? I've currently strung both my C10 Pro and T10VEMid with Gamma TNT Extreme Spin 19 on both mains and crosses at mid+2lbs. So far they are soft enough and have no arm problems. I like this string because it gives a lot of feel and feedback combined with great spin generation.

When I receive delivery of my DNX10, I would like to try KLIP and ALU strings but we don't have these here in Singapore, so would end up stringing with my usual.

Any thoughts?

NoBadMojo
02-02-2006, 06:42 AM
I played one of the TNT strings so long ago that my memory is lame on it and dont really know which strings are aramids. I'm generally not a fan of the Gamma strings..they seem way overpriced for what you get. if aramids are generally low powered strngs, I would avoid them in this frame. little help here.

saf
02-02-2006, 07:56 AM
I seemed to like softer and looser strings in this frame. When I first got the cosmetic demo, it came with all v-rex poly. I did not care for it thinking it was too stiff a string bed with no pop. However, I could see that a poly combo with a soft multi in the cross at low tensions might work.

I just broke the strings last night in my production DNX 10. It was strung with 18 guage power fibre at 53. I liked that. This go round I'm going to string with a poly hybrid.

I use to play with aramid. I think they work well for mains in opened pattern frames. I got away from them because of TE. With this frame's pattern being dense, I would not go for an all aramid set up, even though you have 19guage. I would maybe try the aramid for the main and something soft as a cross. I would recommend STARTING no higher than 50 with the aramid and around 52 or 53 with something soft in the cross.

I think with this frame you are better to error stringing on the low side than the high side.

JMO, hope it helps...

jonolau
02-02-2006, 08:32 AM
I seemed to like softer and looser strings in this frame. When I first got the cosmetic demo, it came with all v-rex poly. I did not care for it thinking it was too stiff a string bed with no pop. However, I could see that a poly combo with a soft multi in the cross at low tensions might work.

I just broke the strings last night in my production DNX 10. It was strung with 18 guage power fibre at 53. I liked that. This go round I'm going to string with a poly hybrid.

I use to play with aramid. I think they work well for mains in opened pattern frames. I got away from them because of TE. With this frame's pattern being dense, I would not go for an all aramid set up, even though you have 19guage. I would maybe try the aramid for the main and something soft as a cross. I would recommend STARTING no higher than 50 with the aramid and around 52 or 53 with something soft in the cross.

I think with this frame you are better to error stringing on the low side than the high side.

JMO, hope it helps...

Thank you and appreciate your frank opinion which what this whole thing is about.

D. Nelson
02-02-2006, 02:22 PM
.....I liked your DNX report...the reference to Damn using it kind of 'iced it' as far as my interest goes !!! Do you happen to know his string/setup ???

NoBadMojo
02-02-2006, 05:13 PM
Sorry..I dont have that info.

hacker
02-02-2006, 07:28 PM
I'm currenty playing with the Tour 10 V-Engine Midplus and I seem to be spraying the ball all over the place lately. I'm hooked on the Volkl feel. Does the DNX10 have that soft feel? I need an arm friendly stick.

NoBadMojo
02-02-2006, 08:09 PM
I'm currenty playing with the Tour 10 V-Engine Midplus and I seem to be spraying the ball all over the place lately. I'm hooked on the Volkl feel. Does the DNX10 have that soft feel? I need an arm friendly stick.

It would be pretty tough to hit it all over the map with the DNX10. yes, the DNX10 has a soft feel within the sweetspot.

TennisWooh
02-02-2006, 08:12 PM
Comparing the V-engine 10 MP to the DNX... do they swing similar. Which would be more manuerable? Any other comparalbe features?

saf
02-03-2006, 04:34 AM
I've been playing with the two frames quite a bit lately. This is what I've observed:

10VEMP: Little more spin on groundies. Much of it comes down to string set up, but the sweet spot is a little larger on this frame. However, I spray my 2h bh here and there with this frame, but don't seem to have that problem with the DNX 10. I hit my wide slice better with this frame. Flat serves, still trying to figure this frame out but it's nice when things klick. Seem to hit my forehand better with this frame. That is a big shot for me.

DNX 10: Hit my slice shots, volleys, kick and flat serves better with this frame. It is more stable when stretched wide. Only disatvantage is a little less spin and pop in the ground game. Stringing loosely helps that aspect.

Other noticable difference. Because of the difference in string pattern, I find that I miss short more often with the DNX 10, but miss long with the 10VEMP. When I'm hitting and moving well they are both nice frames!

I think the two racquets swing very similar in terms of SW and manuverability.

Hope this helps...

flyguy
02-03-2006, 06:15 AM
There were some discussion about similarities between the C7 pro and the DNX10 in this thread:

OK, the C7 I have is 12.1oz strung (with no added weight), 7pts HL, 19mm, 18*20 pattern. It is a little flexy frame. So, I expect DNX10 plays very closely to C7 Pro. Thanks anyway.

Their stats are the closest of any two Volkl racquets (without delving into the composition of the frames):

C7 Pro (circa 2000)
Wt strung: 342g
Balance: 7 pts HL
SW: 319g
Length: 27in
Headsize: 98in2
Flex: 62
String pattern: 18x20

DNX10:
Wt strung: 340g
Balance: 7 pts HL
SW: 320g
Length: 27in
Headsize: 98in2
Flex: 63
String pattern: 18x20

My C7s are still my weapons of choice - I have played with nearly all Volkl players sticks, but none, with exception to the DNX, seem to approach the C7's balance of predictability, control and pop. The main difference I found is that the DNX seems to have a little less flex in the upper hoop (feedback is that flex seems to be a little more uniform). As C7s have been discontinued, I will most likely replace them with DNX10s.

jonolau
02-03-2006, 07:11 AM
There were some discussion about similarities between the C7 pro and the DNX10 in this thread
flyguy, just curious, what is the beam width of your C7? I know that the DNX10 is 19mm.

Django
02-03-2006, 08:07 AM
Saf, I appreciate your DNX 10 comments. What no one seems to want to say is, "Gee, I wish the DNX 10 came (to the U.S.) w/ a 16x19 string pattern." Many have said it still spins pretty good for an 18x20, etc. But you're finding other shortcomings with your strokes that you believe are due to the string pattern, and I can't help but notice a bit of a longing by several on these boards for a more open pattern.

(Maybe wait for the DNX 9 and keep some lead tape handy... )

NoBadMojo
02-03-2006, 08:10 AM
Saf, I appreciate your DNX 10 comments. What no one seems to want to say is, "Gee, I wish the DNX 10 came (to the U.S.) w/ a 16x19 string pattern." Many have said it still spins pretty good for an 18x20, etc. But you're finding other shortcomings with your strokes that you believe are due to the string pattern, and I can't help but notice a bit of a longing by several on these boards for a more open pattern.

(Maybe wait for the DNX 9 and keep some lead tape handy... )

If someone wants a more open stringbed they can just go to the Gen2

Django
02-03-2006, 08:16 AM
Yeah, but that's what I'm playing with now, NBM. I was thinking/hoping that DNX 10 would hit a bit heavier while retaining the same flexy comfort. And it sounds like it does, but at the cost(?) of a heavier swing, due mainly I suppose to a slight shift to less headlight balance.

saf
02-03-2006, 08:25 AM
My rep says that the DNX 10 in a 16x19 might be possible in the future. I think I might like this one.

I'll be curious to see what the dnx 9 feels like also. Weighing in at 11.5 strung, that's only .2-.3 off of my production 10. Time will tell...

Thanks!

stevewcosta
02-03-2006, 08:48 AM
What an awesome looking racquet. Finally, a 19mm >95 sq. in. rac. I'll have to wait for the 16 x 19 also...Too bad it has the damn Volkl grip shape. Otherwise, they're onto something here.

gd!
02-03-2006, 09:03 AM
Grip shape on DNX racquets is a bit more square/less rectangular than those VE's...don't ask me why, but thats the way it goes.

And, yes, I own both, VE and DNX.

gd!

NoBadMojo
02-03-2006, 10:02 AM
Grip shape on DNX racquets is a bit more square/less rectangular than those VE's...don't ask me why, but thats the way it goes.

And, yes, I own both, VE and DNX.

gd!

It's the new DNX replacement grip. it's just a hair thicker and seems to make the grip feel slightly less rectangular. In any case, there is a simple way to make the grip about as square as you like while keeping the bevels perfect, so grip shape should not be an issue.
There arent any plans to bring in a DNX10MP in 16 mains..they're thinking about a 16mains DNX10MID however perhaps 2nd half of the year.
I think the rectangular grip is terrific for serves and volleys and sliced backhands...those happen to be my strengths so I am happy, but like i said, grip shape is particularly easy to change on volkls with the pallet system

mark1
02-03-2006, 12:22 PM
they're thinking about a 16mains DNX10MID however perhaps 2nd half of the year.


now that..........would be awesome. make it happen mojo!

mark1
02-03-2006, 12:25 PM
ok here are my personal specs for the DNX10 mid
Weight: 12oz strung
Balance: 8pts headlight
Swingweight: 315 or so
Beam Width: 18mm ala Vemid
Flex: 59 or 60....no stiffer!
String Pattern: 16x19
Head Size: 93in2

All of this equals the perfect racket. Light enough for me and my bad shoulder, and also allows for personalization with lead tape!

Two Fister
02-03-2006, 02:53 PM
DNX 10: Hit my slice shots, volleys, kick and flat serves better with this frame. It is more stable when stretched wide. Only disatvantage is a little less spin and pop in the ground game. Stringing loosely helps that aspect.
...

Saf,

Try a poly string like ALU Power, Kirschbaum Competition or Signum Poly Pro Plasma strung at 51 or so. So far I am finding that I can hit out more and generate more spin with the Competition at 51 lbs than with the syn gut strung higher. Played a couple of sets last night and had good pop and spin generation.

Let me know what you think.

TF

Two Fister
02-03-2006, 08:07 PM
Just got my second DNX 10. Happy to say that the quality control seems better than babolat, at least as far as weight goes.

First DNX 10: 11.8 oz (336g) including babolat vs overgrip strung with Kirschbaum Competition 17g (no vibration dampener).

Second DNX 10: 11.8 oz (335g) including babolat vs overgrip strung with XOne Biphase 18g string (no vibration dampener).

Probably even closer in weight if strung with the same string.

Between my daughter and I, we've had 9 puredrives and 2 AeroProDrives and I can say there was certainly much more weight variations between samples. Maybe I just got lucky on the DNX's; however, the demo DNX 10 that I got was also very, very close in weight to these two.

jonolau
02-04-2006, 12:44 AM
What an awesome looking racquet. Finally, a 19mm >95 sq. in. rac. I'll have to wait for the 16 x 19 also...Too bad it has the damn Volkl grip shape. Otherwise, they're onto something here.
That is what's getting me excited too! A 98 sq in racquet with a control oriented frame, with none of those gimmicks such as two useless hole that give the FXP Tour a horrible pwinging sound. I'm still trying to flog off my FXP Tour but looks like nobody else here thinks much of it too ...

louis netman
02-04-2006, 08:29 AM
That is what's getting me excited too! A 98 sq in racquet with a control oriented frame, with none of those gimmicks such as two useless hole that give the FXP Tour a horrible pwinging sound. ...
Isn't that what all the Volkl 10 series rackets are all about?

stevewcosta
02-04-2006, 08:52 AM
On the right track Netman, but for crazy people like me, 19MM and 20MM are totally different. Ex: If the 6.0 95 was 19, I would love it. Don't care much for 20mm+ on any frame so choices have always been limited. Grew up playing w/Yonex box beams which were all 18.5 mm.

mark1
02-04-2006, 12:33 PM
im the same way stevewcosta. i like my beam widths at most 19mm, but prefer skinny 18mm beams like the vemid and the o3 tour.

vin
02-04-2006, 01:24 PM
How can you guys tell the difference between an 18mm and 19mm beam?

I played with the VE Mid (18mm) for 2 years and now play with the Gen 2 (20 mm) and think they pretty much play the same.

Two Fister
02-04-2006, 01:45 PM
How can you guys tell the difference between an 18mm and 19mm beam?

With a ruler, of course! :mrgreen:

NoBadMojo
02-04-2006, 02:21 PM
The beam is visually thinner on the 10VEMid, DNX10, T10MPgen1 than the Gen2 and T10MPVE

stevewcosta
02-04-2006, 04:31 PM
You're right NoBadMojo. I don't mind Volkl 20mm beams. Just out of curiousity, since most people prefer 16 X 19 patterns, why would Volkl make this DNX10 18 x 20??? These cos. make strange decisions. Surprised they didn't make 2 mistakes and make it a long body.

NoBadMojo
02-04-2006, 04:52 PM
You're right NoBadMojo. I don't mind Volkl 20mm beams. Just out of curiousity, since most people prefer 16 X 19 patterns, why would Volkl make this DNX10 18 x 20??? These cos. make strange decisions. Surprised they didn't make 2 mistakes and make it a long body.

I assume to help differentiate between the T10MPGen2 which has 16mains. Perhaps a couple pros wanted this frame drilled for 18mains so they just decided to mainstream the frame that way.

ShooterMcMarco
02-04-2006, 08:30 PM
NBMJ, recommend me a volkl to demo, that doesn't have a dense string pattern :)

jonolau
02-04-2006, 09:03 PM
How can you guys tell the difference between an 18mm and 19mm beam?

I played with the VE Mid (18mm) for 2 years and now play with the Gen 2 (20 mm) and think they pretty much play the same.
I can feel a bit more control and feedback from my 18mm T10VEmid, and a bit more power on my 20mm C10 Pro.

tom4ny
02-05-2006, 05:37 AM
been away for a while. thanks for the great review nbmj!! :)

i'll likely stay with my trusty t10mpve. based on what i can tell from others, the only thing gained from the dnx10 is improved control? amusing thought i had is its not unlike volkl to combine technologies and wonder if sometime in the future we might see a dnx10mpve! hehe. have a great day.

NoBadMojo
02-05-2006, 06:12 AM
NBMJ, recommend me a volkl to demo, that doesn't have a dense string pattern :)

Shooter the only Volkls with a dense string pattern are the DNX10 and the T10VEMid

NoBadMojo
02-05-2006, 06:14 AM
been away for a while. thanks for the great review nbmj!! :)

i'll likely stay with my trusty t10mpve. based on what i can tell from others, the only thing gained from the dnx10 is improved control? amusing thought i had is its not unlike volkl to combine technologies and wonder if sometime in the future we might see a dnx10mpve! hehe. have a great day.

you're welcome tom. look for the DNX9MPVE ..it's got the DNX stuff and a less angular V-Engine

tom4ny
02-05-2006, 08:59 AM
thanks for the scoop man!!! did a google search on it and came up with this. looks very cool, and if its a tad lighter but otherwise similar to my current stick, ooh la la, i could be very happy.

http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2006/01/16/1137259987987.html

mark1
02-05-2006, 12:54 PM
what the hell is that racquet tom4ny? i have never seen that before. It looks almost like a tour10midve with DNX paintjob...

CLI
02-05-2006, 01:03 PM
its the DNX 9 - am picking a demo up today actually

kenyee
02-05-2006, 01:15 PM
anyone who's played w/ the DNX10 also played w/ the PK5G? Curious how it compares...

monologuist
02-08-2006, 03:27 PM
so NBMJ, do you think you'll switch to the DNX10? If not, what pros and cons are keeping you from doing so?

louis netman
02-08-2006, 03:35 PM
you're welcome tom. look for the DNX9MPVE ..it's got the DNX stuff and a less angular V-Engine

I hate to be critical, but for Volkl's sake, I hope they removed the dorky "V" crossbar and got rid of that horrible color scheme that the T9VE had...

NoBadMojo
02-08-2006, 03:44 PM
thanks for the scoop man!!! did a google search on it and came up with this. looks very cool, and if its a tad lighter but otherwise similar to my current stick, ooh la la, i could be very happy.

http://www.theage.com.au/ftimages/2006/01/16/1137259987987.html

Tom..thats what it is. A lighter t10MPVE..they tweaked around with the V-engine a bit making it less angular. I've got one on the way as I'm interested in this frame as well..here are the specs
Head Size: .................................. 98 in2 (630 cm2)
Cross Section: ............................. 21 mm
Length: ........................................ 27 (68.5 cm)
Weight (Unstrung): ...................... 11.0 oz (325 g)
Weight (Strung): ......................... 11.5 oz (340 g)
Balance (Unstrung): ................... 1.1 in Head Light (31.5 cm)
Balance (Strung): ........................ .0.7 in Head Light (32.5 cm)
Swing Weight (Unstrung): ........... 285 kgcm2
Swing Weight (Strung): ............... 310 kgcm2
Flex (Unstrung): .......................... RA 65
Flex (Strung): .............................. RA 63
Grip Sizes: .................................. 4 1/8 4 3/4 (sizes 1-5)
Grip Type:.................................... DNX Grip
Handle Technology: .................... Sensor Tour Handle System
Frame Construction: .................... DNX Frame
Frame Material: ........................... DNX, Carbon-Graphite, Fiberglas
String Pattern:.............................. 16 x 19 Dynamic Power Control Pattern
String Tension: ............................ 55 lbs. + / - 5 lbs. (25 kp + / - 2 kp)

Availability.................................... June 15, 2006

NoBadMojo
02-08-2006, 03:47 PM
so NBMJ, do you think you'll switch to the DNX10? If not, what pros and cons are keeping you from doing so?

The DNX10 is a very nice frame I think, but I am sticking with my Gen1's. I'm not a guy to change much once I find something I really like, and I really like how I've got my Gen1's setup.

D. Nelson
02-08-2006, 03:49 PM
......geez....that thing seems to be JUST what I'm looking for, too !!! No chance of any advance ones falling out of somebody's 'trunk' between...say....Indian Wells...and...Key Biscayne...?!?!?! Hahahaa!!!

...(read as marketing suggestion !!)

byealmeens
02-09-2006, 06:31 AM
Hate to jump into this late in the game, or to disagree with Mojo, but I've hit with the DNX10 several times and never found it soft. I agree that most frames feel pretty good when you nail the sweetspot, and this is certainly no exception, but I felt the frame was pretty harsh everywhere else. I'd also add that the frame felt stiffer than the TW spec. This may just be DNX material, or the particular frame I was hitting with (though I've always found Vokl frames to be pretty consistent), but I felt that the DNX10 was considerably stiffer in the head than other Volkls I'd tried (10VEMP, 10VEMid, Gen II, C10 Pro). And for me, the sweetspot seemed a bit lower, and hitting high was very uncomfortable. I agree with Mojo that stringing low is an absolute must, and I have to admit that when I restrung it in the low 50's with a softer string (I would avoid polys) it felt a bit better. But even then, it just didn't have that soft "Volkl feel" that I'd grown used to, and with the smaller sweetspot, it became difficult for me to enjoy hitting with this frame.

Let me also add that I've hit with many 18x20 frames, and have no problem with that setup. I even liked the Tour10VE Mid with the dense pattern. For me, comfort is a must, and this was the first Volkl frame I'd tried that I can truly say felt "uncomfortable". Just my 2 cents....

tom4ny
02-09-2006, 06:41 AM
thanks for posting the specs on the dnx 9 nbmj :) now i am REALLY intrigued. please share your thoughts if you will, after you have had a chance to hit around with it for a while. i would be particularly interested in knowing how you like it compared to your current frame of choice. thanks much!

regards,
-tom

saf
02-09-2006, 08:34 AM
To me this frame feels soft in the throat, but a little stiff in the head. According to Volkl, they have the overall flex lower than TW.

I would say at 3 and 9 it is slightly stiffer than maybe the tour 10 vemp. However, it is much more flexy in the throat (as apposed to the V) in that frame.

The whole idea is to make a frame stiff in some areas and flexy in others. I think if the DNX 10 were "stiffer" as a whole than the tour 10 VEMP, having similar specs, than it would be more powerful. I don't see that from my experiences in playing plenty of sets with both. I do see it as more powerful than the 10 VE mid though.

JMO....

mark1
02-09-2006, 08:46 AM
saf i would dispute that claim based on the fact that even though both the ve mp and dnx10 are 98's, the dnx has a denser pattern at 18x20 while the ve MP has a more open pattern of 16x19. this is what i would attribute to the increased power, not the stiffness. i felt that the stiffness of the two was similar. also, there is just no way that the dnx 10 is anywhere near as flexible as the ve mid imo. just trying to clarify for some of the readers.

saf
02-09-2006, 11:41 AM
good point. I also agree that it is stiffer than the ve mid.

miki
02-11-2006, 11:43 AM
Finally I decided to replace my Salz x-1 and PBB with something else - DNX10.
So far I liked. Comfortable, good baseline strokes, don't feel bigger swingweight, good net play. So far it's good replacement for me.

monologuist
03-02-2006, 03:56 PM
I tried a DNX 10 the other day...I have to admit that it definitely was not for me. The specs are not far off from what I am using right now, a Yonex Ti-70 98"....except the Yonex is about .25" longer.

The DNX10 definitely has good control and due to the 18x20 pattern, you can flatten out your shots and retain a good amount of predictability and control. It has about the amount of power you'd expect from a frame such as this, maybe even a little more powerful.

The things I disliked though were :
1. It felt quite stiff...defintiely stiffer than the 63RA it is rated at, and definitely stiffer than other 63RA 98" frames I've played like the Yonex Ti-70 and Ti-80. Perhaps the string tension and type were not optimal...I think it was NXT..not sure about tension, maybe midpoint or a little higher. I would say that you 'd probably want to string this thing up with as arm-friendly a string as possible, like gut, and at low tensions, maybe under 55lbs. Off-center hits in particular really jarred my arm.
2. The feel was definitely not what I expected. Like I said, much stiffer and metallic than other Volkls I've tried....more modern in a way I did not like. The hit was, I guess, boardy or something...kinda harsh really...but not in terms of useful feedback...more in a potentially uncomfortable way....IDEspite the very thin beam, I did not have that "connected to the ball" feeling that I get with a WIlson 6.0, Ti-70/80, Vantage, POG, etc. ..nothing about it screamed Volkl to me...other Volkls I've tried have all had a smooth, refined, buttery feel...pleasurable hit.
3. Sweetspot felt pretty small to me...it is definitely built for control, but compared to my Yonex, I felt like almost more like I was playing with a 95" istead of 98"...I am used to a wider profile 98 b/c of the Yonex shape, so maybe the relatively narrow head of the Volkl was the difference.

On a positive note, this frame can serve quite well...the stiffness gives it some decent pop on slice and flat serves, and despite the tight pattern, you can get pretty good spin with good technique...The narrow profile of the head made the frame feel like it cut through the air very fast and with great accuracy on serves...kind of reminded me of a Prestige in this way...I've heard people complain about Volkl 10 series frames not getting enough pop on serves, so I'd say this is an exception.

judging from the varying reports of whether this frame feels stiff and harsh or not, I'm thinking maybe it is just super sensitive to string type and tension...I know this to be the case with the Ti-70/80 as well, and I have to string mine with a gut hybrid at below 55 lbs. to get decent comfort...

Two Fister
03-02-2006, 04:21 PM
judging from the varying reports of whether this frame feels stiff and harsh or not, I'm thinking maybe it is just super sensitive to string type and tension...I know this to be the case with the Ti-70/80 as well, and I have to string mine with a gut hybrid at below 55 lbs. to get decent comfort...

I too felt that the racquet seemed kind of harsh with some strings at 58 lbs.

I'm now trying Laserfibre Supernatural Phenom XRC in 18g at 53 lbs in my DNX 10 and it is quite comfy (of course I usually use aeroprodrive+ or puredrives).

In fact, I think I'm going to increase the tension to 55 lbs with the XRC.

Did try the poly string: Kirschbaum Competition at 51 lbs and it wasn't bad, but the XRC has more feel and seems livelier. Good spin potential with this string, too.