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emerckx53
01-28-2006, 06:23 PM
For kicks I just put 6 different Volkl players racquets on a spread sheet. Compared all 6 catagories. It is amazing how all 6 racquets are within 10% of each other in terms of differances in any given category. They obviously have a distinct style they don't want to stray too far from on players racquets....because they are successful. Throw strings into the mix and you have what seems to be a bunch of overlap. For those of us trying to make buying decision it is rough! How about the Volkl users around here putting up a post that uses some form of general guide to assist or categorize a model to a playing style? Would it be helpful?

98's

DNX 10
Tour 10 VE
Gen II
C10

93's

Tour 10 VE
C10 PT

PS. NBM your on....

Masamusou
01-28-2006, 07:51 PM
I don't really know if you can fit these frames to any style. To me, the best part about all of the 10 range is that they do everything well and have no glaring weaknesses.

emerckx53
01-28-2006, 09:39 PM
I don't really know if you can fit these frames to any style. To me, the best part about all of the 10 range is that they do everything well and have no glaring weaknesses.

Correct. But how can a person choose between the subtelies unless you hit all 6 on the same day? Seriously, I have enjoyed the ve93 tour 10 coming from my ps85. I am gradually getting used to larger head sizes but of the 98's I wouldn't know where to start.....now I want info on the C1093 pt....

kinsella
01-28-2006, 09:42 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=84369

emerckx53
01-28-2006, 11:16 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=84369

John, I had seen that post earlier....how do you think it plays against the Tour 10 VE? My fave so far...suggestions on finding more...c10pt's? any photos? Thanks for your time..

jonolau
01-29-2006, 08:29 AM
I play both the C10 Pro and T10VEMid. Both sticks are very close to each other and in my personal opinion, the differences are very slight. One is a 98 and the other is 93, on days when I feel a need for more confidence with a larger headsize, I will go with the C10 Pro.

Both sticks hit well on groundstrokes, with great ability to generate topspin as well as huge flat returns.

On volleys, both are just as stable at the net.

Maneuverablity is equal and I can really discern much of a difference.

Like I said, it is only a psychological difference knowing one has a larger head than the other.

gonzalocatalino
01-29-2006, 09:39 AM
someone has noticed that in the last weeks, VOLKL has become the most popular racquet brand in this forum!?!?!?!?
Look at the huge ammount of threads about volkl racquets!!!

emerckx53
01-29-2006, 01:54 PM
someone has noticed that in the last weeks, VOLKL has become the most popular racquet brand in this forum!?!?!?!?
Look at the huge ammount of threads about volkl racquets!!!

Interestingly enough I have played forever until about 7 years ago and had never heard of Volkl. So I had an unbiased view. After trying a couple I can honestly say they play better than any racquet I have ever played with except my PS85 when I was playing alot.

bcaz
01-29-2006, 04:08 PM
Check out Volkl's web site, which includes a racquet selection guide.

jonolau
01-29-2006, 04:47 PM
Interestingly enough I have played forever until about 7 years ago and had never heard of Volkl.
Same thing here. The only time we heard about Volkl many years was when one of our club members read about it in Tennis Magazine and there were rave reviews about the C10 Pro. He bought one from the US and all of us gave it a spin (this was the time when internet shopping was not popular yet). It was good enough to make many of us switch over to Volkl.

louis netman
01-29-2006, 07:44 PM
Same thing here. The only time we heard about Volkl many years was when one of our club members read about it in Tennis Magazine and there were rave reviews about the C10 Pro. He bought one from the US and all of us gave it a spin (this was the time when internet shopping was not popular yet). It was good enough to make many of us switch over to Volkl.

Tennis Mag had an article in their annual guide and said of Volkl sometine around '98: " If Wilson, Prince, and Head were television, Volkl would be Broadway." This coupled with the fact that Volkl was a German company prompted me to try one. Coming off a torn rotator, I opted for the C8 pro and added weight as I became stronger....then the C9....now the C10 & T10.
IMO, there is no better, more comfortable frame. In and around 2003, Volkl changed their exclusivity policy and became available online. The rest is history...

dl125
01-30-2006, 06:58 AM
I go to volkl.com sometimes...okay a lot, and I just went to the snowboard section and the logos/designs are pretty cool. I would definitely sport clothing like that. Bring me back to "skateboarding" days...

ohplease
01-30-2006, 08:49 AM
I don't really know if you can fit these frames to any style. To me, the best part about all of the 10 range is that they do everything well and have no glaring weaknesses.

I disagree. The 98 square inch version of the 10 series has never been an exceptionally strong serving racket. In fact, the tour 10 gen 1 was rather poor (not just me, check the TW review). I'm sure rampant volkl promoters will flame me for saying so, but you'll note that even those people had to make significant modifications from stock.

In contrast, I've found the 93 square inch 10 series to be standouts in that class of frames. I might not use my Tour 10 mids as my main squeeze any more - but then, I'm not going to sell them, either.

They're nice frames, but their stature around here is more brand management/market positioning and viral marketing than anything else. Same thing with Fischer. Most rackets aren't nearly as good or as bad as people would have you believe.

SHUNGO
01-30-2006, 09:19 AM
OHplease, I agree, I have a couple of T10 MP, and the problem is that is not easy to control the power on the frame, and the backhand due to the thin beam is not as solid as I like it to be, plus the serve is not big thing, the forehand is not allways trustable, I donīt know if anybody else shares these criteria, but I tested the Pure Storm Babolat, and what a change, however the comfort feel of the Volk is unbeatable, so looks like the Holly Grial is still far away.

Django
01-30-2006, 09:21 AM
Agree somewhat w/ OHPLEASE. The flexy comfort of the Volkl 10-series does not make it an exceptionally strong serving racquet. But that is, to me, an acceptable tradeoff. I believe the C-10 is the benchmark, but I found the upper hoop just a bit too unstable for my tastes. I remember hitting with the Tour 10 (Gen I, as it's now referred to) and found the specs so close to the C-10, I felt switching would be a "why bother?" I demo'd the Tour 10 VE MP and found it played much stiffer than what I've come to expect from the Volkl 10-series line. I'm enjoying the Tour 10 Gen II currently, which shares much of the same characteristics of the C-10, though it's noticeably headlight -- perhaps TOO headlight -- for some tastes. I may try some lead tape ... but will likely demo the DNX 10 first, if I can get my head around the 18x20 string pattern.

I have no experience with the 93-inch frames.

Curious -- as are so many others -- as to how/why the DNX 8 is reportedly playing so "comfortably" despite its stiffness rating.

NoBadMojo
01-30-2006, 09:38 AM
Most of serving is a function of the racquet operator. if i was younger and fitter, i wouldnt have had to touch my Gen1's so they would serve great for me. The gen1 <and all of the 10series frames for that matter> have the capacity to serve quite well if suited to the individuals playing style and abilities. These frames are simply good at everything, but they only reward good technique, and you cant get away with stuff like you can with other frames...that's why they are considered to be for advanced players.

ohplease
01-30-2006, 09:51 AM
Agree somewhat w/ OHPLEASE. The flexy comfort of the Volkl 10-series does not make it an exceptionally strong serving racquet. But that is, to me, an acceptable tradeoff.

I think the problem on serve is the weight distribution/head shape, not the flex. Counter examples include the MW200g and FXP Rad Tour - both flexy, both can serve surprisingly big. I think I remember the estusas being talked about as good serving frames, and those weren't very stiff, either.

As I'm sure the promoters will have short memories: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/T10/T10Review.html

Granville doesn't exactly strike me as someone who doesn't know how to serve. Or who doesn't have a pretty good feel for what's out there - read his comments.

Anyway, like I said, nice frames. But both they and Fischer (and Yonex to a certain degree) manipulate their sales channels and public presence to generate higher brand status, and that's contributing just as much (arguably more so) to the buzz as the quality of the product.

vin
01-30-2006, 12:41 PM
The T10 VE Mid and Gen 2 are a lot alike with the Gen 2 having a bigger head size (98 vs 93) and probably a touch more power and spin. To me, the Gen 2 feels slightly stiffer than the VE Mid, but still has a soft feel.

The T10 VE MP has noticably more power than these two, but swings slightly heavier (it is more head heavy at about the same weight). I had trouble finding a groove with this racket. It feels a bit stiffer than the other two, but can stilled be considered a soft feel I think.

I only hit with the C10 once because I couldn't whip it around as fast as the other three and despite it's fame for the 'cushy' feel, I didn't find the feel any better than the VE Mid.

iscottius
01-30-2006, 05:39 PM
I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion that Volkl created the c10 series of racquets and built it's reputation on that stick. Volkl has come out with some nice offerings in the player racquet category but none of them have equaled the c10 pro or tour.

Volkl extablished it's reputation on the soft feel of the C10, and has never duplicated it in newer racquets although they do have good feel.

I played the c10 pro for a few years back for a few years and absolutely loved the frame. In transitioning from the c10 (wanted a slightly lighter and more powerful frame) I wanted to stay with volkl but couldn't find a racquet that ried the worked for me. I tried the gen 1, and it was less powerful than the C10 and couldn't generate enough pace on the serve. Tried the gen 2 and it was slightly better on the serve, but still low powered off the ground.

I have heard that the v-engine series 10 mp is a nice racquet but I couldn't get past the v shape. I just wish volkl made a 98, 16 x 19 12 oz. racquet with a 65 flex that had good feel and some pop.

emerckx53
01-30-2006, 07:40 PM
I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion that Volkl created the c10 series of racquets and built it's reputation on that stick. Volkl has come out with some nice offerings in the player racquet category but none of them have equaled the c10 pro or tour.

Volkl extablished it's reputation on the soft feel of the C10, and has never duplicated it in newer racquets although they do have good feel.

I played the c10 pro for a few years back for a few years and absolutely loved the frame. In transitioning from the c10 (wanted a slightly lighter and more powerful frame) I wanted to stay with volkl but couldn't find a racquet that ried the worked for me. I tried the gen 1, and it was less powerful than the C10 and couldn't generate enough pace on the serve. Tried the gen 2 and it was slightly better on the serve, but still low powered off the ground.

I have heard that the v-engine series 10 mp is a nice racquet but I couldn't get past the v shape. I just wish volkl made a 98, 16 x 19 12 oz. racquet with a 65 flex that had good feel and some pop.


I am with you. What I think is missing is the racquet you spoke about only in a 95! Where are the 95's....I am coming from PS85's so even a T10 93 non V in a 16x19. I can't get used to the 98's yet..too big for me. I guess we can't be too upset they have quite a linep of players racquets. Give me your thought on the C10 pt 93?

iscottius
01-30-2006, 07:51 PM
I am with you. What I think is missing is the racquet you spoke about only in a 95! Where are the 95's....I am coming from PS85's so even a T10 93 non V in a 16x19. I can't get used to the 98's yet..too big for me. I guess we can't be too upset they have quite a linep of players racquets. Give me your thought on the C10 pt 93?

I never really played the c10 pt, but I have hit with it. It had incredible feel, very flexible, served huge, tons of spin accuracy and pop. What's not to like right? the racquet was on the heavy side, high swing weight. alot of die hards swear it was the best true players frame on the market ala ps 85, head prestige 93. I was not a good enough player to use it, but the 98 was alittle lighter swung easier and had the same feel. the c10 pt is a true 5.0 & up stick IMO

emerckx53
01-30-2006, 08:11 PM
I never really played the c10 pt, but I have hit with it. It had incredible feel, very flexible, served huge, tons of spin accuracy and pop. What's not to like right? the racquet was on the heavy side, high swing weight. alot of die hards swear it was the best true players frame on the market ala ps 85, head prestige 93. I was not a good enough player to use it, but the 98 was alittle lighter swung easier and had the same feel. the c10 pt is a true 5.0 & up stick IMO

I really want to try that stick! I think the swingweight is big at 342.....the ps85's were heavy at 354grams but the swingweight was 323....that thing must of been a lunker...

mctennis
01-30-2006, 10:16 PM
The C10 PT is not a lunker as you said emerckx53. It has great feel and control. I've made all mine weigh 14 oz and all balanced the same. Very smooth strokes also. Too bad they have discontinued it. It is a great stick. It's not for everyone. Probably less than 1% of the tennis players can use this stick.

jonolau
01-31-2006, 12:20 AM
I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion that Volkl created the c10 series of racquets and built it's reputation on that stick. Volkl has come out with some nice offerings in the player racquet category but none of them have equaled the c10 pro or tour.

Volkl extablished it's reputation on the soft feel of the C10, and has never duplicated it in newer racquets although they do have good feel.

I played the c10 pro for a few years back for a few years and absolutely loved the frame. In transitioning from the c10 (wanted a slightly lighter and more powerful frame) I wanted to stay with volkl but couldn't find a racquet that ried the worked for me. I tried the gen 1, and it was less powerful than the C10 and couldn't generate enough pace on the serve. Tried the gen 2 and it was slightly better on the serve, but still low powered off the ground.

I have heard that the v-engine series 10 mp is a nice racquet but I couldn't get past the v shape. I just wish volkl made a 98, 16 x 19 12 oz. racquet with a 65 flex that had good feel and some pop.
There's something about the "V" that I can't quite comprehend ... but it works great on my T10 VE Mid! It gives it that much more power for an 18mm beam, 93 sq in frame head. It was truly amazing and almost a shock for me (and my opponents). All the more so when I hit an early return, I could hook the ball and come up with a short, unreachable passing shot. My FXP Tour could not replicate this even with the same string setup or otherwise.

There's something magical about this V frame and I will swear by it!

AndyC
01-31-2006, 01:45 AM
C10 PT? Currently my stick of choice :). I think the thing that really stands out most is how soft it feels and sounds. I also have a Head Prestige Tour 600 and it feels stiffer in comparison even when I hit the sweetspot. And there's no comparison between the Wilson PS 6.0 (which feels like a board).

The C10PT does require good preparation on strokes though but with the right preparation then there's plenty of power and control on tap. It's not the biggest serving stick I'm played with. I can serve faster with both the Head Prestige 600 and PS 6.0 but it always come back to the comfort and feel I get with the C10PT.

In my mind, it's unique at this point in time simply because it has the softness and feel of the early graphite rackets I grew up playing (Yonex R7/Dunlop 200G/Rossignol F200) but the power levels of a modern racket. I certainly can't generate the same kind of pace/control with the R7/F200 (which I still have stowed away and hit with occasionally).

I would disagree that there's only 1% of folk that could use the racket. I've lent my rackets to various players at the club from the men's club champ to the coaches as well as a lady whose no more than a 3.5 player. They've all commented on various things that it does well but mostly the power and feel they get with it. If it was easily available I suspect there'd be more who use it.

anirut
01-31-2006, 06:58 PM
Jonolau,

IMO, I think the V helps create better racket stability, like having a cross-bar on various rackets. I don't know, I may be wrong, but I find hitting the 10VE stable like hitting with my Sting SC (which has a cross-bar).

Think this has to do more with the racket's geometry and the vectors on the string bed. People with knowledge in vector analysis can certainly explain this in detail (not me).

This stability observation may be better compared and explained by those who have more experience with cross-bar rackets. Any input, please.

nealdave
02-04-2006, 04:12 PM
I am looking for a Tour 10 Mid VE... i already have one and need a backup.....can anyone help me find out....for cheap!
I love this racquet.....best racquet on market for a 4.0-4.5 player.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

emerckx53
02-04-2006, 04:37 PM
C10 PT? Currently my stick of choice :). I think the thing that really stands out most is how soft it feels and sounds. I also have a Head Prestige Tour 600 and it feels stiffer in comparison even when I hit the sweetspot. And there's no comparison between the Wilson PS 6.0 (which feels like a board).

The C10PT does require good preparation on strokes though but with the right preparation then there's plenty of power and control on tap. It's not the biggest serving stick I'm played with. I can serve faster with both the Head Prestige 600 and PS 6.0 but it always come back to the comfort and feel I get with the C10PT.

In my mind, it's unique at this point in time simply because it has the softness and feel of the early graphite rackets I grew up playing (Yonex R7/Dunlop 200G/Rossignol F200) but the power levels of a modern racket. I certainly can't generate the same kind of pace/control with the R7/F200 (which I still have stowed away and hit with occasionally).

I would disagree that there's only 1% of folk that could use the racket. I've lent my rackets to various players at the club from the men's club champ to the coaches as well as a lady whose no more than a 3.5 player. They've all commented on various things that it does well but mostly the power and feel they get with it. If it was easily available I suspect there'd be more who use it.

ANDYC,

But where can you get one? I have been everywhere on the net....not even a stinkin used one.....It pains me to think somewhere in Europe there are 25 new sticks sitting in some small pro shop.......

AndyC
02-05-2006, 05:02 PM
I got mine off the auction site. Haven't seen many since I'm afraid :(

Rabbit
02-05-2006, 05:18 PM
98's

DNX 10 - Have not played with it, can't comment.

Tour 10 VE - Very good frame, slightly stiffer than the C10 but still great feel. I didn't notice more power with this one although it plays lighter than the C10.

Gen II - This frame felt, for lack of a better term, tinny to me. It didn't have the good solid feel that the C10 does. I could have gotten used to it, but loved the feel of the C10 too much.


C10 - my choice of stick for about 7 years. This frame does everything well IMO. I love the flexy feel and the great solid feel going through the ball. I, like Louis Netman, came off the C9 to this frame. It is great at producing spin and control is wonderful. Probably the most comfortable frame ever made. Tennis Magazine's review said it was a "virtual extension of the arm" and I don't disagree one bit. When I was playing a bunch, during the spring & summer, I would add 8 strips of 4" lead tape to the 3 and 9 positions; two strips on either side of the string bed. I also played, as with all my frames, with a leather grip. THe extra weight in the head seemed to give me more directional control and produced a heavier ball. During the winter months, when my activity tapers back, I played with a stock C10 + a leather grip. When I put them down for good, my C10s weighed about 13.5 ounces strung.

IMO, the 98s were not hard to serve with. I liked the configuration of the Volkl 10 series from the get go. My only regret is in selling my Tour 10 (Gen 1's). I think this was the ultimate frame. It corrected many of the complaints of the C10, primary among these was the grommet. The C10 (and the new DNX 10) has a grommet that really doesn't cover the frame that well. The Tour 10 had one that went all the way around.

The Tour 10 was slightly lighter and stiffer in all the right places. The hoop still felt great and this one played even better. When I say lighter, I think it was more headlight than the C10. Great graphics on this one as well.

93's

Tour 10 VE - This frame is a great serving stick however, I didn't like it off the ground as well as the Wilson Tour 90. I found it harder to generate spin with. Truth be told, I'm just not a fan of 18X20 string patterns or stiff string beds.


C10 PT - never got a chance to play with one.

IMO, the best of the group was the Tour 10 Mod 1. That said, nothing felt better to me than a C10 that had been strung over 20 or so times. The best analogy I can use is it felt like an old sneaker, comfortable and a great fit. Hell, it got to where I didn't want to play with new ones because the older they got, the more the flexed and the more I liked them. I understand that Volkl had warranty problems with the C10 primarily among the younger crowd who, as I clearly remember, are harder on their equpment than us old farts. It's amazing when you start to buy your own, you take a little better care of them. :)

I will also note that Volkl has produced some equally good frames in the same vein as the C10. My current frame, the Tour 8 V-Engine is a great example. It is every bit as flexy as the C10 in a more user-friendly package. If you know what you're doing with equipment, the Tour 8 is also a great platform to modify. Add to that a very open 16X18 string bed and you've got a great frame that's easy to use.

Volkl's 'X' line of 10s was also a great attempt. They were .6 inches longer and lighter than the regular 10s. They were also easy to use. One frame that never made it but was really fun to play with was the C10 OS. It was 110 inches with a 16X19 string bed. You could put enormous amounts of topspin on the ball. It was an 'X' as well, longer and lighter. I really enjoyed my time with this frame and it was a close 2nd to the C10 when I moved from the C9.

emerckx53
02-05-2006, 06:48 PM
98's

DNX 10 - Have not played with it, can't comment.

Tour 10 VE - Very good frame, slightly stiffer than the C10 but still great feel. I didn't notice more power with this one although it plays lighter than the C10.

Gen II - This frame felt, for lack of a better term, tinny to me. It didn't have the good solid feel that the C10 does. I could have gotten used to it, but loved the feel of the C10 too much.


C10 - my choice of stick for about 7 years. This frame does everything well IMO. I love the flexy feel and the great solid feel going through the ball. I, like Louis Netman, came off the C9 to this frame. It is great at producing spin and control is wonderful. Probably the most comfortable frame ever made. Tennis Magazine's review said it was a "virtual extension of the arm" and I don't disagree one bit. When I was playing a bunch, during the spring & summer, I would add 8 strips of 4" lead tape to the 3 and 9 positions; two strips on either side of the string bed. I also played, as with all my frames, with a leather grip. THe extra weight in the head seemed to give me more directional control and produced a heavier ball. During the winter months, when my activity tapers back, I played with a stock C10 + a leather grip. When I put them down for good, my C10s weighed about 13.5 ounces strung.

IMO, the 98s were not hard to serve with. I liked the configuration of the Volkl 10 series from the get go. My only regret is in selling my Tour 10 (Gen 1's). I think this was the ultimate frame. It corrected many of the complaints of the C10, primary among these was the grommet. The C10 (and the new DNX 10) has a grommet that really doesn't cover the frame that well. The Tour 10 had one that went all the way around.

The Tour 10 was slightly lighter and stiffer in all the right places. The hoop still felt great and this one played even better. When I say lighter, I think it was more headlight than the C10. Great graphics on this one as well.

93's

Tour 10 VE - This frame is a great serving stick however, I didn't like it off the ground as well as the Wilson Tour 90. I found it harder to generate spin with. Truth be told, I'm just not a fan of 18X20 string patterns or stiff string beds.


C10 PT - never got a chance to play with one.

IMO, the best of the group was the Tour 10 Mod 1. That said, nothing felt better to me than a C10 that had been strung over 20 or so times. The best analogy I can use is it felt like an old sneaker, comfortable and a great fit. Hell, it got to where I didn't want to play with new ones because the older they got, the more the flexed and the more I liked them. I understand that Volkl had warranty problems with the C10 primarily among the younger crowd who, as I clearly remember, are harder on their equpment than us old farts. It's amazing when you start to buy your own, you take a little better care of them. :)

I will also note that Volkl has produced some equally good frames in the same vein as the C10. My current frame, the Tour 8 V-Engine is a great example. It is every bit as flexy as the C10 in a more user-friendly package. If you know what you're doing with equipment, the Tour 8 is also a great platform to modify. Add to that a very open 16X18 string bed and you've got a great frame that's easy to use.

Volkl's 'X' line of 10s was also a great attempt. They were .6 inches longer and lighter than the regular 10s. They were also easy to use. One frame that never made it but was really fun to play with was the C10 OS. It was 110 inches with a 16X19 string bed. You could put enormous amounts of topspin on the ball. It was an 'X' as well, longer and lighter. I really enjoyed my time with this frame and it was a close 2nd to the C10 when I moved from the C9.


Thanks Mr. Rabbit,

Here is my dilema....I don't have time to demo all of the Volkl's back to back...winter here! I am coming from a PS85 so initially I thought I could only deal with moving up to a 93. I demoed the T10ve93 and loved it but wanted the open stringbed.... Then I learned of the "older" 93's C10 and T10's.......spent a week trying to find anything.....no go. I guess I should just resign myself to a 98 and make use of the wider selection of 16x19's....because I have not really used anything since the 85's I am sure I will get used to whatever model I choose...when I stopped playing I was a solid 5.0 all courter, western forehand, 2 handed backhand and an average server. Is it normal to feel like these 98's are huge? What is the normal adjustment time? If I could find 3 C10 Pro Tours I would just get it done...Soooooooo, why don't you pick for me!

PS. How long has the Tour 10 been gone? Was it a 98?

Rabbit
02-06-2006, 05:47 AM
I was also a long time PS 85 user, back to '84. The C10, or any of the Volkl 98's are not going to be too powerful. They'll be easier to play with IMO. They are balanced a little more headlight which should get you more racket head speed.

LAW2
02-06-2006, 09:49 AM
You said that you currently play w/a Tour 8, but your signature says Cat 8. Would you clarify? What is your opinion on the Cat 8 VE? Thanks.

Rabbit
02-06-2006, 11:16 AM
My bad, there is no Tour in the name. Is the Volkl Catapult 8 V-Engine. Here is the link for TW


http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCVOLKL-CAT8V.html