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View Full Version : Remind me again, why is Nadal's game suited for clay?


ATXtennisaddict
02-02-2006, 12:06 PM
And other slower surfaces?

Californication
02-02-2006, 12:11 PM
He hits with an exceptional amount of topspin and is amazingly fast. He doesn't hit the hardest ball but with all the topspin he has a lot of success on clay. He has also grown up on clay and isn't very comfortable on fast surfaces like Wimbledon or the US Open. Yes, he won the Montreal Masters. but the US Open and Wimby are two of the fastest surfaces in the world, especially the US Open, and he has trouble hitting winners on a fast court like that. At the '04 US Open, Nadal was absolutley blown away in the 2nd round by Andy Roddick's pace, and then just 3 months later dominated Roddick on clay in Sevilla for the Davis Cup final. Then again in 2005, Nadal goes on grass at Wimby after winning the French and gets beat by Gilles Muller in the 2nd round. At the US Open 4 months ago, Nadal had trouble taming Scoville Jenkins' pace and was then blown away by James Blake, who hit the ball very, very hard. Nadal couldn't handle it, but on clay, when the balls slow down, he can keep his opponent deep with his loopy topspin groundstrokes and with his speed, on a slow court, can return every ball imaginable.

ATXtennisaddict
02-02-2006, 12:17 PM
He hits with an exceptional amount of topspin and is amazingly fast. He doesn't hit the hardest ball but with all the topspin he has a lot of success on clay. He has also grown up on clay and isn't very comfortable on fast surfaces like Wimbledon or the US Open. Yes, he won the Montreal Masters. but the US Open and Wimby are two of the fastest surfaces in the world, especially the US Open, and he has trouble hitting winners on a fast court like that. At the '04 US Open, Nadal was absolutley blown away in the 2nd round by Andy Roddick's pace, and then just 3 months later dominated Roddick on clay in Sevilla for the Davis Cup final. Then again in 2005, Nadal goes on grass at Wimby after winning the French and gets beat by Gilles Muller in the 2nd round. At the US Open 4 months ago, Nadal had trouble taming Scoville Jenkins' pace and was then blown away by James Blake, who hit the ball very, very hard. Nadal couldn't handle it, but on clay, when the balls slow down, he can keep his opponent deep with his loopy topspin groundstrokes and with his speed, on a slow court, can return every ball imaginable.

wow,that's a good explanation :)

Californication
02-02-2006, 12:19 PM
Ask, and you shall receive :mrgreen:

legolas
02-02-2006, 12:22 PM
heavy topspin and uber fast

vllockhart
02-02-2006, 12:36 PM
And other slower surfaces?

Remind you again? If you knew at one time, you'd never forget. And if you've ever seen him play on clay and on hard courts, you'd know too. It's just too obvious--it's because he's FINE and has a bod like a god. ;)

ATXtennisaddict
02-02-2006, 12:47 PM
Remind you again? If you knew at one time, you'd never forget. And if you've ever seen him play on clay and on hard courts, you'd know too. It's just too obvious--it's because he's FINE and has a bod like a god. ;)

It's just that I read about how rebound ace would've suited his game because it was slow and the balls he hit would EXPLODE after the bounce,making it very tough for opponents.

But I didn't know if clay had any "explosion" after effects...

devila
02-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Roddick gifted Nadal the 3rd set after double faulting as he was serving with set point, at the Davis Cup final. Otherwise, the clay match would be a 5 setter.

8PAQ
02-02-2006, 12:55 PM
Roddick gifted Nadal the 3rd set after double faulting as he was serving with set point, at the Davis Cup final. Otherwise, the clay match would be a 5 setter.

From now on, Nadal will have to play right handed to loose a set against Roddick, on clay.

devila
02-02-2006, 12:58 PM
Nadal is right handed but his uncle taught him to play with his left hand. :shock:

8PAQ
02-02-2006, 01:07 PM
Nadal is right handed but his uncle taught him to play with his left hand. :shock:
I know :) That's what I meant....

vllockhart
02-02-2006, 01:09 PM
It's just that I read about how rebound ace would've suited his game because it was slow and the balls he hit would EXPLODE after the bounce,making it very tough for opponents.

But I didn't know if clay had any "explosion" after effects...

Topspin

Rickson
02-02-2006, 01:57 PM
Nadal is known for his massive topspin and his ability to retrieve. Nadal's topspin is better suited for clay because flat balls tend to bounce vertically on clay. Topspin gives the ball a little more bite and although it was proven that clay doesn't give a higher bounce than hard courts, topspin gives a more unpredictable bounce than flat shots. Nadal's retrieving is perfect for clay because of the vertical bounce clay gives. A ball that bounces straight up as opposed to skidding past a player, gives the player more time to retrieve the ball. Nadal can get to a lot of balls with his speed that he might not get to on fast skidding surfaces.

babbette
02-02-2006, 01:58 PM
It's just too obvious--it's because he's FINE and has a bod like a god. ;)
um I know and that ass:cool:

Mr.Federer
02-02-2006, 02:04 PM
mega topspin...that is the secret to his sucess so far...

theazneyes
02-02-2006, 02:07 PM
Basically, he plays a professional pusher's game. Clay and other slow courts allow Nadal to dictate the point by doing what he does best, which is to change the pace of the ball whichever way he wants. Slow court also means, he has more time to do this, which makes him even more dangerous, and with the slower ball movement, he is able to hit back defensive shots with ease because he's so fast, and turns that shot into an offensive shot.

So basically Nadal will always be ever so dominant on clay, but will never get close to being great on hard or grass.

devila
02-02-2006, 02:22 PM
Nadal's serve placement improved over 2 years. He should teach the American players.

TennisAsAlways
02-02-2006, 02:32 PM
Basically, he plays a professional pusher's game. Clay and other slow courts allow Nadal to dictate the point by doing what he does best, which is to change the pace of the ball whichever way he wants. Slow court also means, he has more time to do this, which makes him even more dangerous, and with the slower ball movement, he is able to hit back defensive shots with ease because he's so fast, and turns that shot into an offensive shot.

So basically Nadal will always be ever so dominant on clay, but will never get close to being great on hard or grass.Would you consider Hewitt a pro pusher as well?

TennisAsAlways
02-02-2006, 02:38 PM
Nadal's serve placement improved over 2 years. He should teach the American players.Yes I know. I thought about that a bit too. Maybe it's because when your serve has so much topspin on it, you don't have to worry about it sailing long as much, and so you can focus more on accurate placement.

When you hit flatter serves, you tend to subconscioulsy make it more of a priority to ensure that the ball stays inside the service box. It seems that way to me, at least. The supertopspin serve works like a charm! It doesn't have to be like a typical 2nd serve, I'm talking about a 120MPH+ type of topspin 1st serve.

killer
02-02-2006, 02:49 PM
part of the reason a lot of people think he'd have success at the AO is because Rebound Ace is a 'grabby' surface; it picks up whatever spin is imparted on the ball much more so than USO or other hardcourt events throughout the year. Rafa hits with a ton of topsin, which would bound up really high on a lot of opponents- see Amelie Mauresmo's brilliant tactics vs. JHH in the women's final as a perfect example of this principle in action.

Rafa's also got great wheels, which makes it very hard to get a ball past him. one worry about the Rebound Ace surface might be that it's a bit tackier than 'true' hardcourt surfaces...i wonder how well he'd be able to slide on it?

devila
02-02-2006, 03:39 PM
Nadal has the right topspin serve. Its speed needs to be faster on grass and the US Open courts. It's not overly top spun and he does flatten it out too.

Many players get complacent with the serve, which causes them to lose confidence on return games. They should have great footwork at the instant second that they serve to set up for good winners. 155 mph aces and fast serve winners are too risky for big matches and tiebreaks,
Only 3 players won 6 or more titles in the last 3 years. The one with the fastest serve has the most ineffective serve and worsening return game.

hotdimsim
02-03-2006, 03:19 AM
i'd consider hewitt a pusher tennis as always, but because he grew up on a faster surface is much more inclined to get that shorter ball, punnish and come to the net. there both play the same "style" but are totally different players. weird isnt it.

El Diablo
02-03-2006, 05:36 AM
The idea that his speed and topspin are the reason begs the question....speed and topspin are also effective on hard courts and, no, the ball does not bounce more vertrically on clay -- it has been repeatedly shown to be an optical illusion owing to the fact that the ball SLOWS DOWN MORE on clay after it bounces, and so its vertical vector appears relatively greater compared to its horizontal vector.
The question is less why he is a very good player on clay than why he he doesn't flourish on other surfaces. Great topspin and movement were seen in Borg, Vilas, Wilander, Lendl and others as well, but they flourished on various surfaces. Why.....they learned to volley.

vllockhart
02-03-2006, 06:45 AM
um I know and that ass:cool:

Oooh Babbette, you said "***." I'm telling! ;)

jamumafa
02-03-2006, 06:57 AM
^^your picture of Serena says *** enough lol :)

Nadal is a awesome player on clay cos of his topsin and pace. (also the fact that Coria out-choked him in Rome helps)

Grimjack
02-03-2006, 07:53 AM
The idea that his speed and topspin are the reason begs the question....speed and topspin are also effective on hard courts and, no, the ball does not bounce more vertrically on clay -- it has been repeatedly shown to be an optical illusion owing to the fact that the ball SLOWS DOWN MORE on clay after it bounces, and so its vertical vector appears relatively greater compared to its horizontal vector.


If an object is moving both forward and upward, as a tennis ball always is after the bounce, the act of slowing (relative to a similar object) necessitates an increased vertical angular component. The ball slows precisely because more of its momentum is directed upward. More of its energy is also displaced in the act of scattering the less-resilient court surface, which does mean not all of its displaced angular momentum is directed upwards (which accounts for the "myth" component of your argument above), but the direction of the rebound is unfailingly more vertical than it is with a more stable platform for re-direction. That's just physics for you.

A clay court ball does not necessarily bounce higher, but it does necessarily bounce more vertically.

RiosTheGenius
02-03-2006, 08:14 AM
perhaps cuz he grew up playing on that stuff?????????