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Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 01:24 AM
... and try to attack Court's 24-slam record?

Make no mistake, Steffi is watching women's tennis now and then. She knows about the current (low) level. And when her kids will be in school-age and her hubby retired she will have a lot of time at hand. Why not return to the tour, take on Henin, Clijsters and Henin and battle it out for the slams? Especially at Wimbledon I would give Graf good chances to win 1 or 2 more slams.

We must not forget that all-time greats like Navratilova and King had a lot of success in their end-30ies. Considering that today's women's tennis has not a lot of depth and lacks strength especially at the top Steffi could pull it of as well, IMO .....

Nalbandian
02-04-2006, 01:28 AM
... and try to attack Court's 24-slam record?

Make no mistake, Steffi is watching women's tennis now and then. She knows about the current (low) level. And when her kids will be in school-age and her hubby retired she will have a lot of time at hand. Why not return to the tour, take on Henin, Clijsters and Henin and battle it out for the slams? Especially at Wimbledon I would give Graf good chances to win 1 or 2 more slams.

We must not forget that all-time greats like Navratilova and King had a lot of success in their end-30ies. Considering that today's women's tennis has not a lot of depth and lacks strength especially at the top Steffi could pull it of as well, IMO .....

Nah, she absolutely have no chance (nada) to make it...Martina Hingis will call her an over the hill Granny...LOL

Graf was one player that had the benefit of playing mostly in an era where there was relatively little competition. Stages of her career:

1. Early Career: Her competition was an aging Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert. Of course she would beat these tennis greats that were well past their prime.

2. Early 90s: Seles dominated Graf. She was simply a better player than Steffi in the early 90s and owned the Grand Slams and women's tennis.

3. Mid 90s: Seles was stabbed, leaving Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario as Steffi's primary competition. Steffi won most of her titles during this time.

4. Late 90s: The power era of tennis was a bit much for Steffi, which is why she retired. It became a requirement for players to have a strong forehand AND backhand, which Steffi never possessed.

Again, I thoroughly agree that she was a great player in the late 80s, but I do think that her position in the sport has been inflated due to her lack of competition.

Deuce
02-04-2006, 01:46 AM
I think Patty Fendick should return to the tour.

And Mary Lou Piatek.

opiate
02-04-2006, 02:19 AM
Margaret Court? She'd do well with an nCode in her hands.

someone need to summon her hence.

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 02:21 AM
Nah, she absolutely have no chance (nada) to make it...Martina Hingis will call her an over the hill Granny...LOL

Graf was one player that had the benefit of playing mostly in an era where there was relatively little competition. Stages of her career:

1. Early Career: Her competition was an aging Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert. Of course she would beat these tennis greats that were well past their prime.

2. Early 90s: Seles dominated Graf. She was simply a better player than Steffi in the early 90s and owned the Grand Slams and women's tennis.

3. Mid 90s: Seles was stabbed, leaving Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario as Steffi's primary competition. Steffi won most of her titles during this time.

4. Late 90s: The power era of tennis was a bit much for Steffi, which is why she retired. It became a requirement for players to have a strong forehand AND backhand, which Steffi never possessed.

Again, I thoroughly agree that she was a great player in the late 80s, but I do think that her position in the sport has been inflated due to her lack of competition.


Navratilova's opposition was even more inferior.
She had only Evert (a nobody on grass) and Mandlikova (a choker). When Graf emerged on the scene she had to roll over.

Perhaps the most pathetic opposition a #1 ever faced was when Seles was tops. In the early 90ies Evert/Mandlikova were gone, Navratilova even more over the hill (beat Seles SEVEN times in the 90ies nevertheless!), Graf was slumping badly (eg. losing 5 times in a row to Sabatini) and ASV/Martinez/Pierce/Novotna had not yet come in their own.

Willy opposition in the early 00ies was pathetic as well. Graf retired, Hingis fighting against injuries, Belgians not yet matured.

IMO, it is safe to say that Graf had far stronger opposition than Navratilova, Seles, Williamses.

Nalbandian
02-04-2006, 02:27 AM
Navratilova's opposition was even more inferior.
She had only Evert (a nobody on grass) and Mandlikova (a choker). When Graf emerged on the scene she had to roll over.



Another Pathetic Fanatical analysis by Gunther Pike....

Without that psychotic german fan's knife, her career would have already been over as early as 1991.

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 02:30 AM
Another Pathetic Fanatical analysis by Gunther Pike....

Without that psychotic german fan's knife, her career would have already been over as early as 1991.


No, actually I think without the Seles stabbing Graf would have won Wimbledon 94 as well. She suffered from a lack of motivation in spring/summer of 1994 because Seles had chosen to prolong her leave. No way Graf would have lost to journeywoman McNeil in the 1st round at Wimbledon otherwise ....

Nalbandian
02-04-2006, 02:32 AM
No, actually I think without the Seles stabbing Graf would have won Wimbledon 94 as well. She suffered from a lack of motivation in spring/summer of 1994 because Seles had chosen to prolong her leave. No way Graf would have lost to journeywoman McNeil in the 1st round at Wimbledon otherwise ....

Imagine how many Grand Slam singles titles Navratilova or Evert could have won if a twisted compatriot fan would have stabbed the other one in the back with a knife....

superman1
02-04-2006, 02:39 AM
I bet Graf could actually beat many players today. Power and youth can be completely neutralized by talent and experience. In the women's game, at least. In the men's game you can be as talented as you want, but the ball moves like a bullet and the players are part-time runners so you'd better be able to unload now and then.

Applez
02-04-2006, 02:46 AM
Steffi Graf retired at the right time and better off retired

She was extremely lucky to have beaten a distracted emotional Hingis at FO 99

troytennisbum
02-04-2006, 03:31 AM
I bet Graf could actually beat many players today. Power and youth can be completely neutralized by talent and experience. In the women's game, at least. In the men's game you can be as talented as you want, but the ball moves like a bullet and the players are part-time runners so you'd better be able to unload now and then.

That is a bet I would make with you.
BTW, isn't "Power" a "talent". I mean doesn't it take quite a bit of talent to be able to make the ball move "like a bullet" and still get the ball in ????

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 04:51 AM
Imagine how many Grand Slam singles titles Navratilova or Evert could have won if a twisted compatriot fan would have stabbed the other one in the back with a knife....


LOL!
Navratilova and Evert would have been on the court again 3 months after the stabbing at the latest ....

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 04:55 AM
Steffi Graf retired at the right time and better off retired

She was extremely lucky to have beaten a distracted emotional Hingis at FO 99


Don't forget that she beat Davenport and Seles at FO 99 as well.
As a matter of fact Steffi Graf - just weeks before her retirement and with a bum knee - destroyed a whole generation at Roland Garros that week.
Beating #2, #3 and #1 at a slam within 5 day - a world record for the ages ...

What a woman!

(Hopefully Henin can emulate her role-model at least a little bit .... )

Rabbit
02-04-2006, 06:09 AM
Your prejudice against anything non-German is really quite telling, Herr Haller. Next thing you know, you'll want to annex Austria (again).

And then possibly acquire Belgium? Then you could claim to have two of the top women in the world playing for the Fatherland. Think of the possibilities! After Belgium fell, you could retake France for the twenty-second time. The French Open could become the Herr Haller Challenge! And then, then you could sneak across the Channel, make Wimbledon what it should have been all along, the Reich Open! Once that is done, those pesky Swiss should be dealt with. Roger is from German blood. Yes.....everyone knows it. Look at the shape of his cranium......

Oh......I feel a heil coming on........

Whew......glad that's over....

oscar_2424
02-04-2006, 06:15 AM
... and try to attack Court's 24-slam record?

Make no mistake, Steffi is watching women's tennis now and then. She knows about the current (low) level. And when her kids will be in school-age and her hubby retired she will have a lot of time at hand. Why not return to the tour, take on Henin, Clijsters and Henin and battle it out for the slams? Especially at Wimbledon I would give Graf good chances to win 1 or 2 more slams.

We must not forget that all-time greats like Navratilova and King had a lot of success in their end-30ies. Considering that today's women's tennis has not a lot of depth and lacks strength especially at the top Steffi could pull it of as well, IMO .....

Nooo, she is a mother, she has more important things to do at this tme in her life

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 07:28 AM
Your prejudice against anything non-German is really quite telling, Herr Haller. Next thing you know, you'll want to annex Austria (again). ...

Why should we do that, Mr. Rabid?
And since when is Austria non-German?

BTW, I'm a Federer, Lendl, Henin fan all the way. And recently I have adopted even Hingis.
Why I don't like U.S. players Willies, Davenport, Navratilova, Seles, Capriati? Because they are so ... manly. Don't you have feminine athletes over there?

And of course I don't like a certain kind of arrogant U.S. tennis fans. Not the majority in the U.S. for sure but a very loud and annoying minority ....

.....And then possibly acquire Belgium? Then you could claim to have two of the top women in the world playing for the Fatherland. Think of the possibilities! After Belgium fell, you could retake France for the twenty-second time. The French Open could become the Herr Haller Challenge! And then, then you could sneak across the Channel, make Wimbledon what it should have been all along, the Reich Open! Once that is done, those pesky Swiss should be dealt with. Roger is from German blood. Yes.....everyone knows it. Look at the shape of his cranium......

Oh......I feel a heil coming on........

Whew......glad that's over....

Well, today we have the European Union.
With Austria, Belgium, France, the U.K.
Switzerland will join sometime in the future as well.
At present the 3 best and hottest woman players are from the EU - Henin, Clijsters and Hingis. U.S. women's tennis is doomed, the Russian revolution is crushed before our eyes by a small Swiss girl - what else do we want?

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 07:29 AM
Nooo, she is a mother, she has more important things to do at this tme in her life


Well, then perhaps when Jaden and Jaz have left home for college ... ?

laurie
02-04-2006, 07:30 AM
LOL!
Navratilova and Evert would have been on the court again 3 months after the stabbing at the latest ....

What is wrong with you man?

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 07:32 AM
What is wrong with you man?


What is wrong with suggesting that Evert and Navratilova would not have been out of the game because of a small stab wound?
Is that not PC or what?

laurie
02-04-2006, 07:50 AM
A small stab wound? If someone didn't stop him he was about to stab again facing Seles!!

I bet you've had no sort of physical or mental attack from anyone. Have you? You cold blooded chap.

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 08:15 AM
A small stab wound? If someone didn't stop him he was about to stab again facing Seles!! ....

What makes you think so?


....
I bet you've had no sort of physical or mental attack from anyone. Have you? You cold blooded chap.

A good friend of mine was mugged and almost died because of multiply stab wounds. He was out of hospital after 2 weeks and a back at the office after 2 weeks more.

BTW, I only will "put into perspective" the Seles stabbing when nutso Seles fans try to denigrate Graf's achievements by implying that her slam wins are not legit. Only then. A retaliatory measure.
Hypocrites like you only critcise ME. Not those Seles fanboys and -girls.
U.S. solidarity .... ?

fedfan
02-04-2006, 08:18 AM
back to the office? what does he do there, stare at a computer screen?
clearly that is comparable to playing a 2 hour tennis match where all you do is run...

laurie
02-04-2006, 08:31 AM
What makes you think so?




A good friend of mine was mugged and almost died because of multiply stab wounds. He was out of hospital after 2 weeks and a back at the office after 2 weeks more.

BTW, I only will "put into perspective" the Seles stabbing when nutso Seles fans try to denigrate Graf's achievements by implying that her slam wins are not legit. Only then. A retaliatory measure.
Hypocrites like you only critcise ME. Not those Seles fanboys and -girls.
U.S. solidarity .... ?

Four things you dummy:

1. I'm from London

2. No-one her has ever seen me say any derogatory comments on Steffi Graf

3. Made up sob story about a friend?

4. The first stab wound would have paralysed Seles had it not missed vital veins by centimeters. Its documented in transcripts.

Rickson
02-04-2006, 09:01 AM
Maybe Chris Evert should come back too.

BabolatFan
02-04-2006, 09:09 AM
... and try to attack Court's 24-slam record?

Make no mistake, Steffi is watching women's tennis now and then. She knows about the current (low) level. And when her kids will be in school-age and her hubby retired she will have a lot of time at hand. Why not return to the tour, take on Henin, Clijsters and Henin and battle it out for the slams? Especially at Wimbledon I would give Graf good chances to win 1 or 2 more slams.

We must not forget that all-time greats like Navratilova and King had a lot of success in their end-30ies. Considering that today's women's tennis has not a lot of depth and lacks strength especially at the top Steffi could pull it of as well, IMO .....

IMO, no!!! I'm fully content with WTA top 10 with some hotties. I'm pulling for Hingis to regain #1.

VGP
02-04-2006, 09:10 AM
Ms. Graf shouldn't come back. As much as I respect her game and her accomplishments, being a mother and HOFer is fine.

Hingis looked way better during WTT than Graf. Actually, I was excited to see her back on court, but you could really see that she was a couple of steps slower and he hit a lot of errors for her. But, you could see what made her great. During one match, she got behind and in characteristic Graf fashion, her errors disappeared.

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 09:39 AM
back to the office? what does he do there, stare at a computer screen?
clearly that is comparable to playing a 2 hour tennis match where all you do is run...


No, M & A business. You have to do a lot of thinking. Not only running around on a tennis court.

CliffH
02-04-2006, 10:06 AM
How are Graf's knees? I watched her limp through her last few tournaments and maybe they couldn't take regular workouts?

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 10:37 AM
Four things you dummy:

1. I'm from London ....


Your point being?


Four things you dummy:

....

2. No-one her has ever seen me say any derogatory comments on Steffi Graf

...


I didn't say that.
But here is a nutso called "Nalbandian" who always denigrates Graf and her achievement when someone brings up this great tennis player. Just read his "Graf + Knife" comments. And now and then he gets his own medicine from me.




.....

4. The first stab wound would have paralysed Seles had it not missed vital veins by centimeters. Its documented in transcripts.


Vital veins?

Wrong. And there is nothing about that in the "transcripts".

You might be referring to one physicians remark that Seles was lucky because if the knife had been stabbed some "milimeters" more to the left Seles "could have been paralysed". Bad enough. But Seles had luck.
There are a lot of people who have close calls (eg. car accidents, heart strokes). Of course the Seles stabbing was unique in a sense that something like that had never happened before in tennis. But some Seles fans try to elevate the stabbing to Jesus-Christ-like suffering. Usually I don't say anything about that anymore. Only when some nutsos try to denigrate Graf by using the Seles stabbing they get flak from me.

Simply live with it ....

Michael Haller
02-04-2006, 10:40 AM
How are Graf's knees? I watched her limp through her last few tournaments and maybe they couldn't take regular workouts?


Maybe if she rested some 5 years more?

(She should be able to beat Sharapova types even as a 41-old woman .... )

Nalbandian
02-04-2006, 02:06 PM
LOL!
Navratilova and Evert would have been on the court again 3 months after the stabbing at the latest ....


Are you saying Gunther stabbed the wrong player? Where would Graf be without her twisted fan's knife...

Nalbandian
02-04-2006, 02:10 PM
Maybe if she rested some 5 years more?

(She should be able to beat Sharapova types even as a 41-old woman .... )

Gunther Pike, your german girl was overrated and clealy over the hill

I wonder how many top players her twisted german fan Gunther has to stab for your idol to win one single slam if she returns...LMAO

Rabbit
02-04-2006, 06:28 PM
Why should we do that, Mr. Rabid?
And since when is Austria non-German?

I'm sorry, is the sovreignty of Austria up for debate? Is it a state or republic of Germany? You either can't read or don't know history. Didn't Hitler annex Austria? I believe so. I'll forgive since clearly English isn't your first language.


BTW, I'm a Federer, Lendl, Henin fan all the way. And recently I have adopted even Hingis.

As per my earlier comment, you'd like to adopt them and their country through a permanent annexation, I believe the German word for it is blitzkreig? ;)


Why I don't like U.S. players Willies, Davenport, Navratilova, Seles, Capriati? Because they are so ... manly. Don't you have feminine athletes over there?

Gee, two of the aforementioned athletes are European by birth. I guess the real question that should be raised is don't you have any successful feminine athletes who don't migrate to the U.S.?


And of course I don't like a certain kind of arrogant U.S. tennis fans. Not the majority in the U.S. for sure but a very loud and annoying minority ....


Although they are nothing compared to a soccer crowd, are they Herr Haller? If you wanna talk arrogant, loud and annoying, the only difference is replace the word minority with majority.


Well, today we have the European Union.
With Austria, Belgium, France, the U.K.
Switzerland will join sometime in the future as well.

Yes, I agree. It would seem that ideology has been replaced by finance. Still, the EU is more impacted by the economy of the U.S. than anything else, but that is another discussion.


At present the 3 best and hottest woman players are from the EU - Henin, Clijsters and Hingis. U.S. women's tennis is doomed, the Russian revolution is crushed before our eyes by a small Swiss girl - what else do we want?

The operative word there is from the EU. Becuase I will bet you a Euro to a wienerschnitzel that the majority of them live in Florida, that would be a state in the United States. Again, Herr Haller, I ask you why the most successful athletes in Europe, elect to spend most of their time in the U.S.? Hmmmm....

I really find it ironic or moronic that someone from the Fatherland should be lecturing any other country on the ideals of fair play and justice for all given the recent history of crowd participation that you have had.

Michael Haller
02-05-2006, 04:26 AM
I'm sorry, is the sovreignty of Austria up for debate? Is it a state or republic of Germany? You either can't read or don't know history. Didn't Hitler annex Austria? ....

Yes, he did. The majority of Austrians was ecstatic. Because Austrians are German like Bavarians, Saxonians, Rhinelanders, Westphalians ....


....The operative word there is from the EU. Becuase I will bet you a Euro to a wienerschnitzel that the majority of them live in Florida, that would be a state in the United States. Again, Herr Haller, I ask you why the most successful athletes in Europe, elect to spend most of their time in the U.S.? Hmmmm....

Because it is warm there?
Or because a lot of tornaments are in the vicinity?
Maybe they like Dubya and Jeb ... ?

Nalbandian
02-05-2006, 04:28 AM
I'm sorry, is the sovreignty of Austria up for debate? Is it a state or republic of Germany? You either can't read or don't know history. Didn't Hitler annex Austria? I believe so. I'll forgive since clearly English isn't your first language.



As per my earlier comment, you'd like to adopt them and their country through a permanent annexation, I believe the German word for it is blitzkreig? ;)



Gee, two of the aforementioned athletes are European by birth. I guess the real question that should be raised is don't you have any successful feminine athletes who don't migrate to the U.S.?



Although they are nothing compared to a soccer crowd, are they Herr Haller? If you wanna talk arrogant, loud and annoying, the only difference is replace the word minority with majority.



Yes, I agree. It would seem that ideology has been replaced by finance. Still, the EU is more impacted by the economy of the U.S. than anything else, but that is another discussion.



The operative word there is from the EU. Becuase I will bet you a Euro to a wienerschnitzel that the majority of them live in Florida, that would be a state in the United States. Again, Herr Haller, I ask you why the most successful athletes in Europe, elect to spend most of their time in the U.S.? Hmmmm....

I really find it ironic or moronic that someone from the Fatherland should be lecturing any other country on the ideals of fair play and justice for all given the recent history of crowd participation that you have had.


Excellent post Rabbit...

Don't waste your time on this twisted Joe Pike aka Michael Haller troll...

Nalbandian
02-05-2006, 05:12 AM
What is wrong with suggesting that Evert and Navratilova would not have been out of the game because of a small stab wound?
Is that not PC or what?

yeah Gunther Pike, your idol was the knife#1 for a reason...

The best mixed german doubles combo in women's tennis history....

AeonT
02-05-2006, 05:16 AM
Your point being?





I didn't say that.
But here is a nutso called "Nalbandian" who always denigrates Graf and her achievement when someone brings up this great tennis player. Just read his "Graf + Knife" comments. And now and then he gets his own medicine from me.

Vital veins?

Wrong. And there is nothing about that in the "transcripts".

You might be referring to one physicians remark that Seles was lucky because if the knife had been stabbed some "milimeters" more to the left Seles "could have been paralysed". Bad enough. But Seles had luck.
There are a lot of people who have close calls (eg. car accidents, heart strokes). Of course the Seles stabbing was unique in a sense that something like that had never happened before in tennis. But some Seles fans try to elevate the stabbing to Jesus-Christ-like suffering. Usually I don't say anything about that anymore. Only when some nutsos try to denigrate Graf by using the Seles stabbing they get flak from me.

Simply live with it ....


What happened to Seles was a horrible tragedy in modern-day tennis. It shocked the sporting world. None different than what Tonya Harding did to Nancy Kerrigan the following year EXCEPT that Graf had no knowledge or association with the perp who stabbed Seles.

The similarity? Both attacks were from people who were actually doing it FOR the beneificary (Harding and Graf). Both attacks were by people who were motivated to make the attacks for the benefit of a lower ranked rival of the player who was attacked.

Simply live with the asterisks...

laurie
02-05-2006, 05:42 AM
Have you noticed every couple of months or so for some time now; someone with a new name we haven't heard of comes on the message board and starts provoking people about Graf and Seles? Especially since their names are credited with a healthy number of posts but I've never heard of them and when the arguments die down I don't hear from them again.

Why do you think that is?

jamumafa
02-05-2006, 06:14 AM
BORED BORED BORED ****ING BORED!!!!! This thread should be called "same song different chorus"It's pathetic. Ok there is a huge rift between Seles and Graf fans. But to create the same thread with a different title over and over again is ridiculous.

Whoever created this thread , surely you would know this would cause arguments?

Gunther Parce was a dick , who doesnt deserve to live, but that doesnt mean you can discredit a persons achivements. Graf lost lots of times while Seles was out , so other competitors tepped up to the plate. i'm sick and tired of seeing crap like this

Michael Haller
02-05-2006, 06:19 AM
...
As per my earlier comment, you'd like to adopt them and their country through a permanent annexation, I believe the German word for it is blitzkreig? ;)
...


"Blitzkreig"?

There never was a word like that in German, Robbit ....

Michael Haller
02-05-2006, 06:21 AM
What happened to Seles was a horrible tragedy in modern-day tennis. It shocked the sporting world. None different than what Tonya Harding did to Nancy Kerrigan the following year EXCEPT ...

... that Kerrigan competed at the Olympics 6 weeks later ....

Andres
02-05-2006, 09:59 AM
I DO BELIEVE Goran should return for a final Wimby attempt ;)

Applez
02-05-2006, 01:56 PM
Have you noticed every couple of months or so for some time now; someone with a new name we haven't heard of comes on the message board and starts provoking people about Graf and Seles? Especially since their names are credited with a healthy number of posts but I've never heard of them and when the arguments die down I don't hear from them again.

Why do you think that is?

I heard that name of a previous poster named Joe Pike who I heard now goes by the name of Michael Haller

I also heard this guy is a lunatic

Nalbandian
02-05-2006, 02:38 PM
BORED BORED BORED ****ING BORED!!!!! This thread should be called "same song different chorus"It's pathetic. Ok there is a huge rift between Seles and Graf fans. But to create the same thread with a different title over and over again is ridiculous.

Whoever created this thread , surely you would know this would cause arguments?

Gunther Parce was a dick , who doesnt deserve to live, but that doesnt mean you can discredit a persons achivements. Graf lost lots of times while Seles was out , so other competitors tepped up to the plate. i'm sick and tired of seeing crap like this

WOW, how many aliases do you have Gunther Pike aka Michael Haller?

What a transparent psychopath....

Nalbandian
02-05-2006, 02:40 PM
... that Kerrigan competed at the Olympics 6 weeks later ....

....After Tonya Harding's supporter was put behind bars...