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View Full Version : Maybe Hingis is still the same


Coria
02-05-2006, 01:39 PM
She lost a lot of close matches after her '97-99 domination. She proved again and again that she could not win big matches and blew many she should have won.

Something is missing with her in terms of being a "warrior" and having a champion's heart. Losses to Graf, the Williams, Capriati in big matches from '99-2002 occurred with alarming regularity. She choked on numerous occasions.

After seeing that result yesterday, I can't help but wonder if it's still the same old Hingis--wonderfully talented, intelligent in shot selection, displaying beautiful variety in her game--but not able to close the deal.

There's a reason she went about 15 slams without winning one before she retired. Losing 6-2, 6-0 to Dementieva in the final--after beating Sharapova in great fashion the day before?? Give me a break!! Just when I thought she had turned a corner mentally and could actually win slams again--uh....no.

RogerRulez
02-05-2006, 01:42 PM
What an IDIOTIC thread!

Yay!

Shabazza
02-05-2006, 01:45 PM
She lost a lot of close matches after her '97-99 domination. She proved again and again that she could not win big matches and blew many she should have won.

Something is missing with her in terms of being a "warrior" and having a champion's heart. Losses to Graf, the Williams, Capriati in big matches from '99-2002 occurred with alarming regularity. She choked on numerous occasions.

After seeing that result yesterday, I can't help but wonder if it's still the same old Hingis--wonderfully talented, intelligent in shot selection, displaying beautiful variety in her game--but not able to close the deal.

There's a reason she went about 15 slams without winning one before she retired. Losing 6-2, 6-0 to Dementieva in the final--after beating Sharapova in great fashion the day before?? Give me a break!! Just when I thought she had turned a corner mentally and could actually win slams again--uh....no.
you haven't watched the match for sure...:rolleyes:
the rest is BS

spinbalz
02-05-2006, 03:12 PM
What an IDIOTIC thread!

Yay!

Nothing surprising from someone who predicted Coria's Victory at the Aus. Open! ;)

omniexist
02-05-2006, 06:53 PM
Won't comment on her "choking", but I never liked that irritating phoney smile she puts on during a match.

Coria
02-05-2006, 07:04 PM
What an IDIOTIC thread!

Yay!

Wow, what an intelligent and well thought out response! Thank you so much for sharing.

Don't like what I said? Then use your brain and reply with something meaningful. The "idiotic" part is staring you right back in the face pal.

Look at Hingis' record in big matches--semis and finals from '99 to '02. Look at the way she consistenly lost big matches and then challenge my post. Same for the other response who came up with nothing.

Coria
02-05-2006, 07:04 PM
Nothing surprising from someone who predicted Coria's Victory at the Aus. Open!



Sorry, that was not me. I picked Coria a while ago because I liked his speed and tenacity on the court. He's regressed in the last two years and I'll probably change my name soon. But who cares about the name anyway. It's the point of the post.

Martina Hingis is probably the most intelligent and versatile player the game has had on the women's side in quite a while. She's good for the game. But there is something lacking with her when she gets in pressure situations. I'll be glad to put out the facts on this if somebody wants it. For now, I'll leave it stand.

Donnie Darko
02-05-2006, 07:49 PM
She lost a lot of close matches after her '97-99 domination. She proved again and again that she could not win big matches and blew many she should have won.

Something is missing with her in terms of being a "warrior" and having a champion's heart. Losses to Graf, the Williams, Capriati in big matches from '99-2002 occurred with alarming regularity. She choked on numerous occasions.

After seeing that result yesterday, I can't help but wonder if it's still the same old Hingis--wonderfully talented, intelligent in shot selection, displaying beautiful variety in her game--but not able to close the deal.

There's a reason she went about 15 slams without winning one before she retired. Losing 6-2, 6-0 to Dementieva in the final--after beating Sharapova in great fashion the day before?? Give me a break!! Just when I thought she had turned a corner mentally and could actually win slams again--uh....no.


A lot of her losses in the year or two before she retired were due (in part) to nagging injuries. If you have an injured foot, it's going to havea big affect on your game..........and it pulled her game down dramatically. She's barely even started playing competitively again and she's already had some nice success. Time will tell if she's able to turn the corner or not. She's going to have to stay injury free and maybe improve her game a bit, but she's got the talent to win tournaments.

superman1
02-05-2006, 08:51 PM
It's just one friggin match. You can't start making judgements on someone who has been playing unbelievably but chokes on one match. Hopefully she'll take something positive out of being in the final of a Tier I event on the second month of her comeback.

jaskey
02-05-2006, 09:01 PM
i've never actually seen Hingis play, nor do i know anything about any of her matches. (i'm new, kay?) but from what i just read i think Hingis' strength is her mental abilities on the court, and that probably means that she's even in more danger from pressure than other pro player.

other players could be pressured and some of their physical strength will save them, but if Hingis is pressured she loses all of her strength. it's like being thrown back hand shots when your strength is forehand, and there is nothing you can do about it. or at least that's what i think

bc-05
02-06-2006, 04:24 AM
ppl here aways say that maria kirilenko has similar games to martina hingis.. i just hope one day she can become a martina without the injuries and offcourse without the "choking"?

baseliner
02-06-2006, 04:41 AM
Well, the idea that Hingis chokes in close matches isn't relevant here 'cause this one was never close. Dementieva blew her out. She was just out hitting her. What surprised me was how easily she handled Sharapova then was never in the match against Dementieva. The knock on Hingis was that she didn't have teh power to hang with the big hitters. Sure looked last night that she can't. Nevertheless glad to see her back. It was only her 3rd tourney back after a long hiatus from the WTA. Probably too early to totally give up on her.

RogerRulez
02-06-2006, 05:20 AM
Wow, what an intelligent and well thought out response! Thank you so much for sharing.

Don't like what I said? Then use your brain and reply with something meaningful. The "idiotic" part is staring you right back in the face pal.

Look at Hingis' record in big matches--semis and finals from '99 to '02. Look at the way she consistenly lost big matches and then challenge my post. Same for the other response who came up with nothing.

Splitting sets in the quarterfinal round of the first Grand Slam event of the year with the #1 player in women's tennis - especially within the first 3 weeks of your return to tennis - was a great sign.

Winning the Australian Open mixed doubles was also great.

Beating 3 players last week who are ranked in the WTA top 25 was a great sign, especially beating the 2 ranked #4 and #23 as badly as Hingis beat Sharapova and Kirilenko.

All in all, an excellent showing for the Swiss Miss who will now move from #117 to about #52 in the rankings today.

Suddenly, within 5 weeks of her return she has moved past 1,350 players in the WTA rankings on her way back up and she literally has no points to defend for about 11 months.

Again, you are one of the biggest I-DIOT in this board!


Yay!

Applez
02-06-2006, 07:07 AM
Losing 6-2, 6-0 to Dementieva in the final--after beating Sharapova in great fashion the day before?? Give me a break!! Just when I thought she had turned a corner mentally and could actually win slams again--uh....no.

I think it is more of an emotional letdown for Martina in this match

It is almost anticlimactic after winning the match she had targeted in her comeback

Some days you just don't have your "A" game, and I think that is what we have here

Martina won the match she wanted the most (against Sharapova), and Elena is playing the match of her life probably because of the media attention on this one

Coria
02-06-2006, 03:10 PM
[QUOTE=RogerRulez]Splitting sets in the quarterfinal round of the first Grand Slam event of the year with the #1 player in women's tennis - especially within the first 3 weeks of your return to tennis - was a great sign.

Winning the Australian Open mixed doubles was also great.

Beating 3 players last week who are ranked in the WTA top 25 was a great sign, especially beating the 2 ranked #4 and #23 as badly as Hingis beat Sharapova and Kirilenko.

All in all, an excellent showing for the Swiss Miss who will now move from #117 to about #52 in the rankings today.

Suddenly, within 5 weeks of her return she has moved past 1,350 players in the WTA rankings on her way back up and she literally has no points to defend for about 11 months.

Again, you are one of the biggest I-DIOT in this board!



Does it make you feel good to call people idiots? You didn't address my point that Hingis showed a strong tendency to not come through in big matches since her final major win at the '99 Aussie Open. In the following 46 months, she lost numerous finals, came up very small in big moments in many grand slams. I'll be more than happy to go through the list.

The fact that she has gotten to whatever ranking is NOT WHAT THE HELL I was talking about. My point is that Hingis often comes up with poor efforts in finals and in grand slams. Losing 6-2, 6-0 is ridiculous for a final. I saw her come up small so many times in four years of play prior to her retirement. She choked in royal fashion in both Aussie finals to Capriati in '01 and '02 and to Graf at the French in '99. There were many three set losses after she'd win the second set, whether to Davenport, the Williams sisters or somebody else.

Any IDIOT knows Hingis at age 25 would quickly get back to the top 10 or 15 players. While impressive, it was highly predictable. My point is that she has already showing signs of a mental weakness when it comes to closing the deal in a tournament. Just like she showed from '99 to '02, Hingis doesn't always show up in sets (many matches she lost after winning the first or second set easily only to fall apart) or matches.

RogerRulez, your arrogance is quite evident--even in your poster name.

Moose Malloy
02-06-2006, 03:26 PM
Coria,
I don't think Hingis choked in those big matches she lost from '00 to '02. She lost to great players (Williams sisters, Davenport, Capriati) who had more firepower than her. Sometimes you just lose to a better player. I don't think Hewitt or Roddick choke every time they lose to Federer, do you? Was Chang a choker for losing to Sampras, Agassi & Becker so many times?

Often Hingis could beat 1 or 2 big hitters then lose to a third. She has to be much fitter, faster than her opponents to win & she seemed a bit worn out physically at some of these majors.
Now that the sisters & Capriati are gone, her chances of winning major titles is pretty good.

I don't think it's fair for you to say she's a choker just because lost a final in Tokyo. This is only her 4th tournament back, she had to play more matches this past week than she had in any week since '02. Give her time before criticizing her comeback. She had no ranking a few weeks ago & is now 48.

Shabazza
02-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Coria,
I don't think Hingis choked in those big matches she lost from '00 to '02. She lost to great players (Williams sisters, Davenport, Capriati) who had more firepower than her. Sometimes you just lose to a better player. I don't think Hewitt or Roddick choke every time they lose to Federer, do you? Was Chang a choker for losing to Sampras, Agassi & Becker so many times?

Often Hingis could beat 1 or 2 big hitters then lose to a third. She has to be much fitter, faster than her opponents to win & she seemed a bit worn out physically at some of these majors.
Now that the sisters & Capriati are gone, her chances of winning major titles is pretty good.

I don't think it's fair for you to say she's a choker just because lost a final in Tokyo. This is only her 4th tournament back, she had to play more matches this past week than she had in any week since '02. Give her time before criticizing her comeback. She had no ranking a few weeks ago & is now 48.

A reasonable post that makes sense! :eek: sadly, it's seems to be the exception, rather than the rule in GPPD :-|
But I don't think the W-Sisters are gone yet.Although their mind isn't there, they aren't too old for a comeback.

Andres
02-06-2006, 05:52 PM
Nothing surprising from someone who predicted Coria's Victory at the Aus. Open! ;)

That one was 'coriafan', not 'Coria' ;)

FalconX
02-06-2006, 05:56 PM
By the way if this is of any relavance,
Hingis hit top 50 in the newest ranking. She sits at 48th spot for now.

breakfast_of_champions
02-06-2006, 08:35 PM
choked against graf? seems everyone in grafs era choked against graf. i believe in martina's last AO, prior to retiring, she beat both williams sister before losing to capriati in extreme heat, and there were some very questionable calls. hardly a choke.

her win against sharapova impressive? didn't see the match, and i really doubt maria was even 70% for that match. remember lindsay beat maria 6-0,6-0 only to lose to maria, the next time out. elena was just the better player that day. it was no choke. i think the last thing you accuse martina of is choking. her game just isn't top 5 material yet.

Coria
02-06-2006, 09:22 PM
Listen guys, I'm really not trying to bash Hingis. I like her game a lot and as I said, she's good for the game. But I stick with my point. Here are some examples

1999: 1) After destroying Venus in the second set of the Italian Open semis, she loses 6-4 in the third

2) She lost the French Open final to Graf AFTER winning the first set 6-4 and being up 2-0 in the second. She totally falls apart when a line call goes against her, actually starts to cry and completely melts down in the third set.

3) She loses to SEVENTEEN year old Serena Williams in the US Open final and did not play very well. In fact, she looked intimidated and lost to a player she had far more experience than. She also blew numerous leads in the second set.

--later that year, she loses three straight finals, including getting clocked by Davenport in the Chase ending finals

2000: 1) Gets spanked again by Davenport in the Aussi final.

2) Loses to Davenport AGAIN in Indian Wells final--losing 6-0 in the third set.

3) Gets destroyed by Mary Pierce in French semis

4) loses again to Venus in Wimby quarters 6-4 in the third

5) Blows numerous leads and loses 7-5 in third set to Venus Williams in Us OPEN semis


2001: 1) After beating both Williams sisters in Aussie QF and SF, she gets destroyed by Capriati in finals.

2) Loses AGAIN to Davenport in Toyko finals, after winning first set-getting blown out in the third

3) Loses third set 6-1 to Kim Clijsters in Indian Wells semis.

4) Loses again to Capriati, blowing several match points --8-6 in third set of finals at Charleston

5) Loses 6-4 in third set to Mauresomo in SF of Italian Open

6) gets dusted by Capriati in French semis--McEnroe comments how poorly she was prepared for the match and appeared to accept losing without much of a fight.

7) loses in Wimbledon first round to a nobody

8) Loses again to Serena Williams in US Open semis--gets destroyed


2002:
1) Blows six match points and completely chokes to Capriati AGAIN in Aussie final. After second set collapse, loses 6-2 in the third set with little fight.

2) Loses Indian Wells final to Hantuchova in straight sets, whom she was clearly favored to beat

3) Loses to Myskina 6-0 in the third set at New Haven. 6-0

4) Loses to over the hill, slow Seles in R16 US Open


2006: 1) Loses 6-2, 6-0 to Dementieva in finals

****Bottom line is that I just don't throw crap out there fellas. There's a reason I posted what I posted. And I only post if there's facts behind my reasoning. And there's plenty of facts. Something IS lacking with Hingis mentally. She's a great player but there have been numerous poor performances, blowing of leads, choking situations with her since early '99. And her loss to Dementieva, while not being so much a choke, is another example of something lacking inside with this woman.

arnz
02-06-2006, 10:03 PM
All the women she lost to back in the day were just plain bigger hitters than her. The dominance of Venus and Serena with serve speeds never before seen in the womens game, Davenport who wasnt a slouch either, and a resurgent Capriati, all baseline power players, I believe, and actually most tennis analysts believe, was the real reason for the downfall of Hingis.

I don't think I've ever heard her called a choker before. Its just incredibly difficult, even for somebody as talented as her, to be on the defensive all the time. She couldnt go on the offensive on her weak serve, she had a tough time going on the offensive against the Williamses serves, and although she had great anticipation, she was never really fast in an athletic sense.

I think she saw the Williams sister drop off, and saw maybe an opportunity for her. As everybody else has mentioned, its just a few weeks since her return, lets wait a little bit before passing judgment. So far she is doing great in my opinion!

hopeless
02-06-2006, 11:46 PM
Coria dude, you almost sound as if its a crime for Hingis to lose. As if every loss is a critical mental meltdown on her part. Everyone loses matches you know. Everyone chokes at some point or another

scoot
02-07-2006, 05:09 AM
I agree that Hingis was plain old overpowered in the big matches. She was never a choker, in fact her strength was her mental toughness and crafty play in pressure situations. She had just enough guile to get to the semis or finals of the big tournaments but there was always someone with too much game waiting for her in the later stages of the big tournaments. If anything Hingis has overachieved given the limitations in her game.

Coria
02-07-2006, 05:25 PM
Coria dude, you almost sound as if its a crime for Hingis to lose. As if every loss is a critical mental meltdown on her part. Everyone loses matches you know. Everyone chokes at some point or another


Of course I know that. But the list of her poor performances over a four year period was rather striking. And she did choke in at least five big-time grand slam matches and could not win one in four years, after having won. She became intimidated and too often, went down either meekly in big matches, or did not fight and dig deep, or she just flat out gagged at key points. It happened too many times. My list does not cover all of it.

Yes, she did get overpowered at times by Serena, Venus or Davenport if they were truly on. But there were many other times where she just plain didn't close the deal when she had them beat. And her losses to Capriati were a joke. She's better than Capriati but had a mental block with her.

breakfast_of_champions
02-07-2006, 05:32 PM
you could make the same case against any top player in the wta.

slack hack
02-07-2006, 06:49 PM
3) She loses to SEVENTEEN year old Serena Williams in the US Open final and did not play very well. In fact, she looked intimidated and lost to a player she had far more experience than. She also blew numerous leads in the second set.

Can't really think of her as a choker.
Serena held a match point against Hingis in
their very first match up; that U.S. Open final
loss was not that much of a shocker.

And I only post if there's facts behind my reasoning. And there's plenty of facts. Something IS lacking with Hingis mentally.

The FACT is, your opinion is that she's lacking something mentally.
IMO, this is like questioning the wetness of water or something!
Hingis' mental fortitude is a given.

Rabbit
02-08-2006, 05:41 AM
I'm sorry, but it appears to me that you're looking at the negative. On the positive, Hingis has returned to tennis, she reached the quarterfinals of her first Grand Slam tournament since returning and she's dominated some of the top girls in the world. She lost, yes, but she lost in the finals of a tournament to a player who is arguably at the height of her powers. Hingis has done all this after a 3 - 4 year layoff.

If you ask me, she's done better than 99% of the girls out there including both of the Williams.