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ATXtennisaddict
02-16-2006, 06:57 AM
Can someone get me the McEnroe/Bjorkman matches from the SAP open? Are they showing it on TV today or something? I want to check out McEnroe’s game at his age. Thanks!

MonkeyPox
02-16-2006, 08:10 AM
I don't think they are showing it anywhere, unless he gets to the final, which I guess they could show, though they don't usually.

I was there last night and he played great. He played better than really any of the other three overall. Arthurs served the best, but can't volley. Bjorkman was a little off his high standard and Huss, who won Wimbledon last year, looked to be really nervous or something and didn't play well at all.

Mac handled Arthurs' serve pretty well and volleyed just like the old days. The match was delayed forever due to Philoupousis' torturous match, that he finally won over Robredo (and please tell me no one needs a spoiler over of one Mark's matches). And then Hewitt came out and got the job done quickly thank goodness, but still McEnroe's match went on until midnight, and amazingly most everyone stayed. I think that's because that's why everyone came in the first place.

On another SAP note, I think any of us could beat Rainer Schuettler now. He lost to some scrub in about 10 minutes. Poor guy. He made Philoupousis look like Federer.

Noelle
02-16-2006, 08:19 AM
Match Results thread here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=87024&page=2

But feel free to talk about the match here, too. :) There's nothing to spoil since it wasn't televised.

urban
02-16-2006, 08:55 AM
Is it possible, that a 47 year old guy fresh from the senior tour, is still the best doubles player? That he beats the reigning Wimbledon champion and the guy with possibly the best serve today 3 and 3? Ok. it is doubles, and there were some old pairs, who did pretty well, including Patty (37)/Mulloy (42), who won Wim 1957 over Hoad/Fraser, or Newk (38)/Stolle(42), who almost beat Mac and Fleming for the US crown around 1980. But i think, it is a stunning result, and shows, that in terms of volleys, angles play and positioning the game hasn't improved so much. And real class never seems to get old.

Moose Malloy
02-16-2006, 09:09 AM
I wish he entered the singles.
He could still beat a lot of guys, but physically would be gassed after one match.
If you hit the lines as well as he does, it doesn't matter if you only serve 110(plus he's got that nasty lefty slice), you will get some easy volleys.

It's a shame he didn't have this dedication to fitness 15 years ago. He probably could have kept playing well into the 90s.

Moose Malloy
02-16-2006, 09:28 AM
McEnroe hit a forehand lob winner on break point to take a 2-1 lead in the second set and then held his serve at love. He held at love again at 4-3 before he and Bjorkman broke Arthurs' serve. In all, McEnroe won his last 12 points on his serve.

"Hopefully you're able to show that you have something left in the tank and I think I did that," he said.

McEnroe says he's in better shape now than he was when he won seven Grand Slam singles titles from 1979-84. He credits an improved work ethic and the example he has gotten by watching other athletes in their 40s succeed.

"When I watch (George) Foreman become heavyweight champion at 45, and see guys like Roger Clemens and my buddy Chris Chelios, who is the captain of the Olympic hockey team and is 44 and looks like he is cut with granite. He's unbelievable. ... I'm like way behind these guys. I'm trying to motivate myself to work even harder."

McEnroe got a standing ovation and waved to the crowd of 7,158 as he was introduced at a tournament he won five times in singles and eight in doubles in his career.

He hit a volley winner on the first point of the match and held his serve all four times despite having less power than the other three players. He had a 107 mph hour ace in the third game and poached a return by Huss for another volley winner to make it 3-2. His fastest serve of the match was 119 mph.

McEnroe, who now plays on the Champions Tour for players 35 and older against opponents like Goran Ivanisevic, has not played an ATP event since February 1994, when he and Boris Becker lost to Bjorkman and Jeremy Bates in the semifinals in Rotterdam.

"It's not like I'm not playing. I'm out there playing on the Champions Tour," McEnroe said. "I play with some pretty big hitters. Ivanisevic is on the seniors tour and the guy serves 130 (mph)."

http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/5330486

UpTheT
02-16-2006, 09:29 AM
I haven't been geeked up like this about prof tennis in a long time. I sat up watching a frikin live scoreboard till 12 someting. When Mac/Bjork came back from love 40 I almost ****ed myself. It was the most exciting sporting event I never watched.

Gugafan_Redux
02-16-2006, 11:54 AM
I saw Johnny Mac live in an "off-season" exhibition with Blake, Roddick and some others. Blake won it, but it was great to see Johhny Mac live 20 years after seeing him on Breakfast at Wimby. And here I thought that'd be about the last chance to see him live (since the Sr's tour doesn't do the U.S.).

You da man, Johnny Mac!

Moose Malloy
02-16-2006, 12:05 PM
since the Sr's tour doesn't do the U.S.

Actually the senior tour has started a US swing:

http://www.championscuptennis.com/

ATXtennisaddict
02-16-2006, 12:21 PM
they need to set aside time to show the oldies play

Marius_Hancu
02-16-2006, 01:57 PM
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His fastest serve of the match was 119 mph
-----------

I don't think he ever served this fast in his best days.
This is the product of the new racquets.

Moose Malloy
02-16-2006, 02:04 PM
Exactly Marius.

If Mac had this racquet in '86 he might have been able to hold his own more against Becker/Lendl. Off course, if Lendl had this racquet he might have decapitated Mac.

The graphite racquets of the 80s were so different than today. 46 year old Mac should not be able to serve harder than 26 year old Mac.

Thunderbrat
02-16-2006, 02:27 PM
What a match!

I honestly expected Mac and Bjorkman to pull it off but the amazing thing is that Mac was clearly the most impressive player on the court!

I wondered about his serve. He double faulted in an ugly way to start his first service game and had to pull off some wide angled lefty magic to come back from 15-40. Then in his second service game he was down 0-40 and pulled it off again with a number of sweet volleys. From that point forward he was unbreakable even though his serves were usually around 110 for a first and 90 or so for a second.

I also wondered how he'd handle the serves of current pros. The truth is neither of the Aussies would have held more than once or twice if Bjorkman had been up to Mac's standards in the return game. I remember one point early in the mach where Bjorkman missed an easy volley and then backhanded a second serve into the bottom of the net. McEnroe slammed his racket to the ground and stood there. I couldn't tell if he was ****ed as his partner or what but it seemed to fire Bjorkman up a bit and his play inproved.

You know Bjorkman (who'd lost a tough three set singles match earlier) will play better. If Mac can remain as solid as he was last night they may win this thing.

I'll get to see them play on Friday and then I'm heading back to Kansas City.

Go Mac!!!

Thunderbrat
02-16-2006, 02:31 PM
BTW--

Mac was using a Dunlop Maxply McEnroe. This may be the wrong place for this question but has anyone used that racket? Is it any good?

BreakPoint
02-16-2006, 02:32 PM
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His fastest serve of the match was 119 mph
-----------

I don't think he ever served this fast in his best days.
This is the product of the new racquets.

Yes, that was his fastest of the night, but his average was more around 105-110 mph. But with the spin and the placement, his opponents had trouble returning his serve cleanly, and he held serve rather easily most of the night.

I think it's the bigger racquet head that gives him more pace on his serves today than 25 years ago. You just can't compare a 65 sq. in. head with a 98 sq. in. head. That 65 sq. in wood racquet also had a super dense 18x20 pattern compared to the open 16x19 pattern on the 98 sq. in. graphite Maxply McEnroe.

snowpuppy
02-16-2006, 02:35 PM
It this team going to stick? I want to see how they might do with lets say the bryan brothers.

Moose Malloy
02-16-2006, 02:43 PM
I think it's the bigger racquet head that gives him more pace on his serves today than 25 years ago. You just can't compare a 65 sq. in. head with a 98 sq. in. head. That 65 sq. in wood racquet also had a super dense 18x20 pattern compared to the open 16x19 pattern on the 98 sq. in. graphite Maxply McEnroe.

Breakpoint, what about the graphite racquet he used (I think) from '84 on? Were those specifications similar to the racquet he is currently using?
I still don't think he should be serving harder now than he did in 1984. It wouldn't make sense to see a 46 year old(except maybe Clemens) pitcher throwing harder than when he was 26.
It's all about racquets, huh? or improved radar guns.

simi
02-16-2006, 02:48 PM
I still don't think he should be serving harder now than he did in 1984.

Can't speak for Mr. McEnroe, but now that I'm well past that age, I can honestly say that I was much more stronger in my 40's than I was in my 20's. Had a whole lot more flexibility in my younger days, but a lot more strength in the later days. Doesn't strike me all that unusual that he can serve so well still. He's been playing and putting the court time to maintain his skills.

sureshs
02-16-2006, 03:29 PM
Is it possible, that a 47 year old guy fresh from the senior tour, is still the best doubles player? That he beats the reigning Wimbledon champion and the guy with possibly the best serve today 3 and 3? Ok. it is doubles, and there were some old pairs, who did pretty well, including Patty (37)/Mulloy (42), who won Wim 1957 over Hoad/Fraser, or Newk (38)/Stolle(42), who almost beat Mac and Fleming for the US crown around 1980. But i think, it is a stunning result, and shows, that in terms of volleys, angles play and positioning the game hasn't improved so much. And real class never seems to get old.

Sad to say, but another way to interpret it is that doubles is not that difficult to play. I myself play both singles and doubles. Imagine Mac vs Fed or Nadal. Reminds me of the guys here who posted that if Hingis can do so well, the women's tour must be lousy. You can extend that logic to men's doubles now ...

It is not surprising though - in mixed doubles, the women seem to handle the serve pretty well, and conversely, the men are not able to pounce on their serve or anything. So it is not a stretch that a former singles and doubles number 1 who is still fit, practises daily, and plays senior tournaments can compete with the regulars.

BreakPoint
02-16-2006, 03:36 PM
Breakpoint, what about the graphite racquet he used (I think) from '84 on? Were those specifications similar to the racquet he is currently using?
I still don't think he should be serving harder now than he did in 1984. It wouldn't make sense to see a 46 year old(except maybe Clemens) pitcher throwing harder than when he was 26.
It's all about racquets, huh? or improved radar guns.

No, the two racquets are completely different. The graphite racquet that McEnroe used from '83 to the mid-90's was the Dunlop Max 200G. That had a 82 sq. in. head, weighed about 13.5 oz., and was ultra flexible with a RA about 40. The new Maxply McEnroe has a 98 sq. in. head, weighs 11.3 oz, and a stiffness of 68 (assuming it's not a paintjob). The larger head, the extra stiffness, and the higher racquet head speed from the lighter weight, all combine to help him get more pace, power, and spin on his serves and all of his other shots.

BTW, he did mention that he feels he's in better shape today than he was when he was in his prime, so I'm sure that helps, too! :D

DashaandSafin
02-16-2006, 03:47 PM
This may mean two things:
A) The ATP doubes is in sorry shape
B) MAC should have never retired and had he kept on playing, he might have a few GS's under his belt.

str33t
02-16-2006, 03:51 PM
I watched this match live! mac was doin pretty good. i only saw the first set and i think mac/bjorkman won 6-3.

superman1
02-16-2006, 04:27 PM
This just shows that if 20 years ago McEnroe worked more on fitness and strength, everyone would be comparing Federer to him, not Sampras.

sekine
02-16-2006, 04:48 PM
This just shows that if 20 years ago McEnroe worked more on fitness and strength, everyone would be comparing Federer to him, not Sampras.

Doesn't really show anything if it never happened.

gokou703
02-16-2006, 06:05 PM
oh yeah i went to the match last night! was awesome seeing johnny mac woop on them....and seriously some of the shots he hit were amazing. very short angled crosscourt forehand winners etc. he was serving in the 120's and had very few unforced errors. bjorkman really compliments his game as well. oh yeah the whole stadium sang happy birthday to him with a cake. huge ovation coming in and and leaving the stadium...

Coria
02-16-2006, 06:46 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again. Johnny Mac, with his 77 singles titles and 77 doubles titles and brilliant Davis Cup play might be the best player ever anyway. Had he not taken the time off and worked harder, there's no doubt in my mind he would have double digit majors. He lost three heartbreaking major finals that he easily could have won. The '82 finals to Connors at Wimbledon in five sets and the loss to Lendl in the French Final in '84 that he was two games from winning in straight sets. And of course his '80 loss to Borg--8-6 in the fifth. How many times did he play Austrailia? Hardly at all.

When you look at all those factors, his career, in my book, equals Pete's. Those doubles titles--all 77 of them, speak also to his greatness. He won more singles titles than Pete as well, not just as many majors. He was just as good as Pete at the Us Open, better than him at the French and nearly as good at Wimbledon. He would have been as good or better if he played Austraila more. In '90, he might have won the whole thing had he not been stupid and gotten himself kicked out. He was steamrolling in the quarters before getting the boot. Drysdale said he was playing the best tennis of anyone, including Lendl and Edberg and Becker.

So, he easily could have had 11-12 singles titles in majors. But again, factor in the doubles greatness and the Davis Cup titles--the man is one of the top three of all time--at least. And on the Senior Tour, nobody could do what he's doing at this age--nobody. And that's because he has the greatest hands and feel for the tennis ball in the history of the sport--bar none!!

Rabbit
02-16-2006, 07:00 PM
good post, Coria...

slice bh compliment
02-16-2006, 07:28 PM
... The '82 finals to Connors at Wimbledon in five sets and the loss to Lendl in the French Final in '84 that he was two games from winning in straight sets. ...

Haunting. Painful.

It is nice to see so much Johnny love these days. Will it last?

superman1
02-16-2006, 09:05 PM
Regardless of his Grand Slam total, he still has gone down as one of the greats, and his position in history will be pushed even further in front if he continues playing doubles and beating all the younger guys.

thewisteron
02-16-2006, 09:19 PM
BTW, he did mention that he feels he's in better shape today than he was when he was in his prime, so I'm sure that helps, too! :D


That is a bit hard to believe.

BreakPoint
02-16-2006, 09:28 PM
That is a bit hard to believe.

Well, those are his own words from the horse's mouth. Remember also that during his prime, he used to eat lots of Big Macs and french fries and he never worked out. Now he works out all the time and keeps in shape.

superman1
02-16-2006, 09:39 PM
I'm sure he means he feels stronger now. I'd take a 40 year old's pure brawn over a 20 year old's "definition" any day. No one hires 20 year olds for heavy duty construction. His endurance has gone down but his strength has gone up.

peter
02-16-2006, 10:16 PM
Mac was using a Dunlop Maxply McEnroe. This may be the wrong place for this question but has anyone used that racket? Is it any good?

I own one (and a Dunlop Hot Melt 200G, and my main rackets - Wilson ProStaff 6.0-85 and a couple others). I can't really say I like the McEnroe, but that is probably due to my playing style (aggressive baseliner with pretty flat shots) not being the best for the racket. When I go for my flat hard groundies I get a lot of vibrations from that racket (I even had to install a vibration dampener in order to get rid of atleast some of them) - on the _other_ hand it was really nice (ie "very good") for volleying and touch shots (go figure!)

chrismaylor
02-16-2006, 10:42 PM
Don't bother, I saw him play live a few weeks ago getting ready, not the same McEnroe...doing it for publicity, probably has another crap show coming up.





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35ft6
02-17-2006, 05:03 AM
This really isn't surprising. When I don't play for a long time, I can work around the rust in singles, but doubles exposes everything I haven't been practicing. I think it really tests your overall skills more than singles. And Mac has always been a very skillful guy and still remains one of the most skilled people in the world with a tennis racket. You can get around not having stamina or speed in doubles, but not not having skills, so it suits a 47 year old Mac quite well.

ATXtennisaddict
02-17-2006, 06:15 AM
you guys talk about watching him play...

was in on TV??? I want to watch the match, so someone kindly hook me up with info pls? :)

cak
02-17-2006, 07:00 AM
I'm soo excited. I get to go see him tonight!!! Floor seat at the corner on the deuce side!!! Opening match is Andy somebody versus Bjorn sombody in singles. Yawn.:-)

Moose Malloy
02-17-2006, 10:02 AM
No, the two racquets are completely different. The graphite racquet that McEnroe used from '83 to the mid-90's was the Dunlop Max 200G. That had a 82 sq. in. head, weighed about 13.5 oz., and was ultra flexible with a RA about 40. The new Maxply McEnroe has a 98 sq. in. head, weighs 11.3 oz, and a stiffness of 68

Thanks, BP. Amazing how much racquet technology has changed in a short amount of time.
Since you seem to know so much about this stuff, what were Lendl's specs? I was always amazed at how hard he hit with such a (seemingly) small frame.

Moose Malloy
02-17-2006, 10:03 AM
ATXtennisaddict,
Mac's first match was not televised. His 2nd match(tonight) will be on the tennis channel.

BreakPoint
02-17-2006, 11:19 AM
Thanks, BP. Amazing how much racquet technology has changed in a short amount of time.
Since you seem to know so much about this stuff, what were Lendl's specs? I was always amazed at how hard he hit with such a (seemingly) small frame.

MM,
I'm not sure about Lendl's specs but it had a small head (~ 80 sq. in.), and was likely pretty stiff and heavy, likely close to 14 oz. It was the weight and the stiffness that allowed him to hit the ball so hard. Remember that Lendl kept himself in extraordinarily good shape throughout his career.

Perhaps someone else knows Lendl's exact specs. (I knew about the Max 200G because I used it for 13 years. :) )

ATXtennisaddict
02-17-2006, 11:35 AM
ATXtennisaddict,
Mac's first match was not televised. His 2nd match(tonight) will be on the tennis channel.

thanks moose

Moose Malloy
02-20-2007, 12:49 PM
anyone know why he didn't defend his title?

PBODY99
02-20-2007, 01:00 PM
MAC & his partner were to play two events{ one in Sweden} with no plans for the following year, therefore no MAC> { Hmmm. or it could be a lack of Appearnce $$$$$}