PDA

View Full Version : Stickies for BreakPoint, NoBadMojo re racquet weight and head size?


Keifers
02-26-2006, 05:28 PM
Does anyone else find the slugfests that go on here about racquet weight and head size, and who should use what and who is qualified to differentiate 'fact' from 'opinion,' etc., unpleasant and unhelpful and oh so tiresome?

I'm not out to attack BreakPoint and NoBadMojo here. They have proven themselves here over the years to be experienced, knowledgeable tennis players who want to help others in their search for effective equipment to play and enjoy tennis with.

I do, however, want to express my criticism of the way these men have conducted themselves in so many discussions about racquet weight and head size, player's vs. tweener frames, etc. Both have well-reasoned arguments for their positions to be sure. But both have stated their positions and their arguments -- and both have argued against and disparaged the other's position and arguments -- over and over again, every which way, AD NAUSEAM.

To me, it's like watching two giants (I mean that in a positive sense, no sarcasm) standing there slugging it out, hitting each other over and over again. Every once in a while, they stop for a while. But then something will get them started again and off they go. It's as though they been at each other for so long, they don't know what else to do.

For a forum that is supposed to be a resource for requesting and sharing information and experience about racquets, this kind of acting out is simply inappropriate, imo. No matter how experienced and well-qualified these men are, and no matter how long they've contributed to these boards.

I propose that BreakPoint and NoBadMojo get a sticky thread each, in which they state their positions, arguments and evidence for their view of racquet weight and head size, player's vs. tweeners, who should use which, etc. Then, as threads are started on these subjects by other members, both men can have their say (hopefully refering people to their stickies) in one or two posts -- but will be discouraged from engaging in the petulant back and forth that they've been engaging in.

My strong hope is that this will allow other intelligent and thoughtful posters' views to be more prominent, and it will be much easier for members who are genuinely looking for information and advice to get what they need without having to wade through a lot of I'm-right-he's-wrong garbage.

Comments?

(And don't tell me to use the ignore feature. That won't cut it for me, nor, I suspect, for many others.)

Bolt
02-26-2006, 05:54 PM
You are dead-on. With each having a sticky thread, they could simply reference their post and move on.

arnz
02-26-2006, 06:09 PM
I kinda like the threads that are 50 pages long ;)

tonyjh63
02-26-2006, 06:27 PM
Does anyone else find the slugfests that go on here about racquet weight and head size, and who should use what and who is qualified to differentiate 'fact' from 'opinion,' etc., unpleasant and unhelpful and oh so tiresome?

I'm not out to attack BreakPoint and NoBadMojo here. They have proven themselves here over the years to be experienced, knowledgeable tennis players who want to help others in their search for effective equipment to play and enjoy tennis with.

I do, however, want to express my criticism of the way these men have conducted themselves in so many discussions about racquet weight and head size, player's vs. tweener frames, etc. Both have well-reasoned arguments for their positions to be sure. But both have stated their positions and their arguments -- and both have argued against and disparaged the other's position and arguments -- over and over again, every which way, AD NAUSEAM.

To me, it's like watching two giants (I mean that in a positive sense, no sarcasm) standing there slugging it out, hitting each other over and over again. Every once in a while, they stop for a while. But then something will get them started again and off they go. It's as though they been at each other for so long, they don't know what else to do.

For a forum that is supposed to be a resource for requesting and sharing information and experience about racquets, this kind of acting out is simply inappropriate, imo. No matter how experienced and well-qualified these men are, and no matter how long they've contributed to these boards.

I propose that BreakPoint and NoBadMojo get a sticky thread each, in which they state their positions, arguments and evidence for their view of racquet weight and head size, player's vs. tweeners, who should use which, etc. Then, as threads are started on these subjects by other members, both men can have their say (hopefully refering people to their stickies) in one or two posts -- but will be discouraged from engaging in the petulant back and forth that they've been engaging in.

My strong hope is that this will allow other intelligent and thoughtful posters' views to be more prominent, and it will be much easier for members who are genuinely looking for information and advice to get what they need without having to wade through a lot of I'm-right-he's-wrong garbage.

Comments?

(And don't tell me to use the ignore feature. That won't cut it for me, nor, I suspect, for many others.)

LOL!! Reminds me of that old Star Trek episode in which the two guys, one black on the right/white on the left, the other guy is white on the right/black on the left, and they've been going at it for centuries, one chasing the other throughout the galaxies, trying to kill each other. Hehehe... Kinda funny.

NoBadMojo
02-26-2006, 06:28 PM
I see Keifers is now a self annointed board moderator..good job there pal. Truth of the matter Keifers is that I rarely even respond anymore to anything Breakpoint posts because much of it is so far fetched and ridiculous, even though much of it is slamming me for giving people good advice, and I had him on my ignore list for quite some while. Suggest you at least examine the posts and make a considered response rathr than issuing compliments with an undertone of ridicule about people. I also dont think you can compare me to Breakpoint either from a tennis knowledge point of view...if you can, then you dont know much about tennis either. You may notice that the other people who know tennis a little rarely agree with Breakpoint either and there are plenty of people disputing what he posts..and he is prolific. Also, you may note as the new board expert that most of the people who really know tennis dont even post on the board anymore...they get tired of posting good info from an array of practical experiences and getting things twisted about, getting insulted, having things taken out of context, and getting busted for every little possible exception and possible anomoly. sometimes i call breakpoint on his really bad advice in an effort to make sure people around here get good info...someone who starts a poll insistng that larger headed frames get in your way on the backswing clearly doesnt know what they are talking about or they have the most contorted triple jointed backswing in hstory. i dont even do that much correcting of BP anymore as there are others who know enough to do that. i dont get paid for passing along good information here and taking a bunch of crap from people like you, dont appreciate your comments and if people would rather i not post here or think i give bad info, i am happy to join Rabbit, Gaines Hillix, Tom Martinez, and the other really knowledgable posters who used to volunteer their time and professonal experiences around here. recently in the Tips forum there was a davis Cupper/Teaching pro who really had insight into the game..he lasted about 2 posts, got assaulted and was never heard from again. so rather than the board welcoming a real expert..someone the board could have learned from, ignorant people caused hm to flee. now even some of the jerks have had enough with the board and dont even post. i am so sorry that you have heard all this talk before about how people might benefit by using apropriate gear, but i didnt know this board existed to serve you alone. perhaps you havent considered there are new members who may benefit from receiving knowledgable info about tennis. politely suggest you go sticky yourself Keifers. thanks

Kevo
02-26-2006, 08:16 PM
politely suggest you go sticky yourself Keifers. thanks

Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed? I do like the "politely" part though. That is classic.

As far as the OPs thoughts go. I learned a long time ago, that most people are more likely to defend their position than simply let it go. This is just human nature, and there is nothing really wrong with it. Until you can actually experience something for yourself, you can't really understand it fully. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion about things you haven't experienced yourself. I mean that is pretty much the way we figure things out. I'm just saying that you have to take the good with the bad because it's simply the nature of things. I appreciate everyone who posts taking the time. I've learned a lot of things and been given a lot of good ideas from this board, and even if a lot of those ideas are bad and some of the facts are untrue, I am still able to glean something useful from the various posters.

So I would like to suggest that NBM and BreakPoint and whoever else wishes, to keep spouting whatever it is they want, and thanks to TW for providing the forum to do so.

PM_
02-26-2006, 08:39 PM
i am happy to join Rabbit, Gaines Hillix, Tom Martinez, and the other really knowledgable posters who used to volunteer their time and professonal experiences around here. recently in the Tips forum there was a davis Cupper/Teaching pro who really had insight into the game..he lasted about 2 posts, got assaulted and was never heard from again.
i wish i was around then to take in all that good advice and suck in the good atmosphere. hope you stick around NBM-i've always appreciated your contributions.

BreakPoint
02-26-2006, 09:05 PM
Very interesting post, Keifers. I think you know me well enough from these boards to know that I usually only post my personal opinions and experiences, and I rarely tell anyone (including NBMJ) flat out that they're wrong (as NBMJ has been known to do). On the rare occasions that I do so, it's because someone has stated something that's factually incorrect, such as "McEnroe won his first Wimbledon in 1980" or "the PS 6.0 has a 92 sq. in. head" or something of that nature. I never tell anyone that their opinion of something is wrong, as NBMJ is notorious for doing.

If you look back at the threads in which we've had disagreements in the past, you'll see that invariably, it's usually NBMJ that instigates the personal attacks on me. As one who who doesn't like to back down, I usually end up defending myself, and then I retaliate. But NMBJ is typically the one who initiates the ugliness and gets nasty towards me first. He looks for every opportunity to knock me down, and will find some excuse to disagree with me and slam me no matter what I say. If I wrote, "I think NBMJ is a great guy", he'd tell me that I couldn't be more wrong, that I'm clueless, and that my knowledge is worthless. In fact, I did call him "our esteemed teaching pro on these boards", a few weeks ago and he totally took a hissy fit and nailed me for it. I'm not sure if the guy is just unstable or insecure or both or what? Or perhaps he's threatened by my presence and my offering advice on these boards? Perhaps he thinks I'm invading "his turf" and that his ego demands that he be the only one here that's knowledgeable about tennis? I don't really know. :confused:

BTW, many times I do agree with something NBMJ wrote and I fully acknowledge it and give him full credit and I compliment him for it. I don't know how many times I've written, "I agree with NBMJ 100%". Too many times to remember. However, as far as I can recall, he has never, not once, acknowledged his concurrence nor complimented me on anything I've ever written, although many others have. Is it possible that all 6,000+ of my posts are all wrong? I doubt it, not even if I tried.

You may notice that the other people who know tennis a little rarely agree with Breakpoint either and there are plenty of people disputing what he posts..

I think as many people will disagree with my opinions as with NBMJ's, no more, no less. If no one ever disagreed with my opinions, then they would likely no longer be just my opinions but become facts, right?


sometimes i call breakpoint on his really bad advice in an effort to make sure people around here get good info...someone who starts a poll insistng that larger headed frames get in your way on the backswing clearly doesnt know what they are talking about or they have the most contorted triple jointed backswing in hstory.

Here's a prime example. I started a poll a while back asking if people prefer using a smaller headed racquet for hitting one-handed backhands. I was curious since I do, and I was wondering if I was the only one. So in NBMJ's mind, this becomes that I'm "insisting that larger headed frames get in your way on the backswing"? :confused:

BTW, interestingly enough, it turns out that 70% of the voters agreed with me that they also prefer using a smaller headed racquet for one-handed backhands as they're less cumbersome. That was the feedback I was seeking. Here's that poll: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=79917

It seems that NBMJ just cannot stand being wrong about anything so he'll never admit to it, even if it's just an opinion. After all, everything he ever says is a fact, right? ;)

BreakPoint
02-26-2006, 10:14 PM
BTW, I promise I will try even harder in the future not to mix it up with NBMJ. If you've noticed, I haven't really mixed it up with him very much recently (except in the last day or two), as I generally try to avoid him as much as possible, unless,of course, he attacks me first or says something so provocative that it just begs a response (as in the "Racquet Envy" thread). (No, he nor anyone else is on my ignore list as I don't have one and I don't believe in them.)

Anyway, I do respect NBMJ's vast experience, skills as a tennis player, and his stature as a teaching pro. It's just unfortunate that his attitude and people skills sometimes leave much to be desired. Anyway, I will try my best to avoid conflict with him in the future, and I sincerely hope that he will have the courtesy to do the same.

Cheers.

tennis4losers
02-26-2006, 10:17 PM
I see Keifers is now a self annointed board moderator..good job there pal. Truth of the matter Keifers is that I rarely even respond anymore to anything Breakpoint posts because much of it is so far fetched and ridiculous, even though much of it is slamming me for giving people good advice, and I had him on my ignore list for quite some while. Suggest you at least examine the posts and make a considered response rathr than issuing compliments with an undertone of ridicule about people. I also dont think you can compare me to Breakpoint either from a tennis knowledge point of view...if you can, then you dont know much about tennis either. You may notice that the other people who know tennis a little rarely agree with Breakpoint either and there are plenty of people disputing what he posts..and he is prolific. Also, you may note as the new board expert that most of the people who really know tennis dont even post on the board anymore...they get tired of posting good info from an array of practical experiences and getting things twisted about, getting insulted, having things taken out of context, and getting busted for every little possible exception and possible anomoly. sometimes i call breakpoint on his really bad advice in an effort to make sure people around here get good info...someone who starts a poll insistng that larger headed frames get in your way on the backswing clearly doesnt know what they are talking about or they have the most contorted triple jointed backswing in hstory. i dont even do that much correcting of BP anymore as there are others who know enough to do that. i dont get paid for passing along good information here and taking a bunch of crap from people like you, dont appreciate your comments and if people would rather i not post here or think i give bad info, i am happy to join Rabbit, Gaines Hillix, Tom Martinez, and the other really knowledgable posters who used to volunteer their time and professonal experiences around here. recently in the Tips forum there was a davis Cupper/Teaching pro who really had insight into the game..he lasted about 2 posts, got assaulted and was never heard from again. so rather than the board welcoming a real expert..someone the board could have learned from, ignorant people caused hm to flee. now even some of the jerks have had enough with the board and dont even post. i am so sorry that you have heard all this talk before about how people might benefit by using apropriate gear, but i didnt know this board existed to serve you alone. perhaps you havent considered there are new members who may benefit from receiving knowledgable info about tennis. politely suggest you go sticky yourself Keifers. thanks

YEAH MAN

BreakPoint
02-26-2006, 10:24 PM
tennis4losers,
You ought to put re-posts of other' members' posts in quotes so that readers know that you weren't the original writer and so to give the original writer credit.

Keifers
02-26-2006, 11:58 PM
BTW, I promise I will try even harder in the future not to mix it up with NBMJ. If you've noticed, I haven't really mixed it up with him very much recently (except in the last day or two), as I generally try to avoid him as much as possible, unless,of course, he attacks me first or says something so provocative that it just begs a response (as in the "Racquet Envy" thread). (No, he nor anyone else is on my ignore list as I don't have one and I don't believe in them.)

Anyway, I do respect NBMJ's vast experience, skills as a tennis player, and his stature as a teaching pro. It's just unfortunate that his attitude and people skills sometimes leave much to be desired. Anyway, I will try my best to avoid conflict with him in the future, and I sincerely hope that he will have the courtesy to do the same.

Cheers.
BreakPoint, to quote Master Yoda, "There is no 'try.' Do, or do not."

I think you know you are the only one who can change this unhealthy dynamic. Either do it -- or don't do it.

Don't cheapen yourself -- and insult us -- by making a promise and then giving yourself outs like "unless,of course, he attacks me first..."

Surely, you've had enough of this sport by now. Surely, this kind of stuff is well below your level.

Yours!05
02-27-2006, 12:06 AM
King C
Nothing ventured...you have my sincere respect and admiration.
Yours...

Keifers
02-27-2006, 12:10 AM
King C
You have my sincere respect and admiration.
Yours...
Thanks, Yours... (I think!)

I get the King C bit.

Yeah, nothing ventured...

(I gotta go bandage by bleeding forehead!)

Keifers
02-27-2006, 12:18 AM
King C
Nothing ventured...you have my sincere respect and admiration.
Yours...
I hope you're well, by the way. I may be in Adelaide in April visiting my mother (she's in a nursing home, Alzheimer's). Not sure, yet, but I hope to make it then.

Yours!05
02-27-2006, 12:24 AM
I hope you're well, by the way. I may be in Adelaide in April visiting my mother (she's in a nursing home, Alzheimer's). Not sure, yet, but I hope to make it then.Mustn't doubt my sincerity. A sad trip. Have it, at some distance, looming in my family. Tennis is a reliable balm for many things, isn't it?

dizzychump
02-27-2006, 01:31 AM
Can someone do a poll? I would but I don't know how to do it.

Extensive arguments have been presented by both parties on this issue. In fact it has been argued to death. Of course it can never be fully resolved except by each of us individually in our own minds and for our own reasons.

I'd be interested to know which side of the fence the majority fall. How many of us are "right" and how many of us are "wrong"?

I am with Breakpoint generally but NBM's message is getting through a little bit and i'm beginning to question my racquet choice. Especially after a heartbreaking loss this weekend.

Their battle on this issue along with their supporters is great for informing the less knowledgable such as myself of all the arguments. I read them all with interest and can make a more informed choice, right or wrong.

So - Which side are you on? (not that it matters)

oldguysrule
02-27-2006, 07:12 AM
Can someone do a poll? I would but I don't know how to do it.

Extensive arguments have been presented by both parties on this issue. In fact it has been argued to death. Of course it can never be fully resolved except by each of us individually in our own minds and for our own reasons.

I'd be interested to know which side of the fence the majority fall. How many of us are "right" and how many of us are "wrong"?

I am with Breakpoint generally but NBM's message is getting through a little bit and i'm beginning to question my racquet choice. Especially after a heartbreaking loss this weekend.

Their battle on this issue along with their supporters is great for informing the less knowledgable such as myself of all the arguments. I read them all with interest and can make a more informed choice, right or wrong.

So - Which side are you on? (not that it matters)

No way to do a poll and there is nothing to be gained by it. There is no right or wrong on this issue regardless of what anyone says. You choose the racquet you like, and you play tennis. If you so desire, you might choose to share your opinions and experiences with others. But you cannot choose to say that your opinions and experiences trumps everyone else's. Not if you want to maintain any credibility.

If you see benefits to playing with a heavier, midsize, great. If you see benefits from playing with a lighter, midplus, that's great. Share those experiences with us. But don't tell me I am wrong if my opinion is different.

Agassi and Federer play with two totally different racquets. Is one of them wrong? The guys I play with don't all play with the same type of racquet. Should we switch so that we all have the same thing? No, No, No

We don't need stickies because supposedly we are big boys (and girls). We just need a little common sense.

rocket
02-27-2006, 07:29 AM
If you see benefits to playing with a heavier, midsize, great. If you see benefits from playing with a lighter, midplus, that's great. Share those experiences with us. But don't tell me I am wrong if my opinion is different.

Agassi and Federer play with two totally different racquets. Is one of them wrong? The guys I play with don't all play with the same type of racquet. Should we switch so that we all have the same thing? No, No, No

We don't need stickies because supposedly we are big boys (and girls). We just need a little common sense.

here's some wisdom for all of us! :cool:

VGP
02-27-2006, 07:36 AM
...We just need a little common sense.


Common sense? What's that?

jonolau
03-01-2006, 06:19 AM
BreakPoint, to quote Master Yoda, "There is no 'try.' Do, or do not."

I think you know you are the only one who can change this unhealthy dynamic. Either do it -- or don't do it.

Don't cheapen yourself -- and insult us -- by making a promise and then giving yourself outs like "unless,of course, he attacks me first..."

Surely, you've had enough of this sport by now. Surely, this kind of stuff is well below your level.
Keifers, well said. I find that BreakPoint seems to bend like a reed in the wind. When he attacks NBM, he goes all out for the jugular. Then a few posts later, he comes around saying that he respects NBM a lot, that he was just merely defending himself blah blah blah blah blah.

BP is just a pure hypocrite who will spit in your face, smile and apoligise.

I've had the great misfortune of encountering that psycho a few times, and he's definitely top of my go-to-hell-and-rot-like-a-cabbage list.

BreakPoint
03-01-2006, 01:48 PM
Keifers, well said. I find that BreakPoint seems to bend like a reed in the wind. When he attacks NBM, he goes all out for the jugular. Then a few posts later, he comes around saying that he respects NBM a lot, that he was just merely defending himself blah blah blah blah blah.

BP is just a pure hypocrite who will spit in your face, smile and apoligise.

I've had the great misfortune of encountering that psycho a few times, and he's definitely top of my go-to-hell-and-rot-like-a-cabbage list.

Thanks jonolau, I like you, too! :D

BTW, congratulations on reaching your 1,000th post in record time!! :D

ChicagoJack
03-01-2006, 05:03 PM
Three ways to post.

1. Here is my personal opinion, for what it's worth, make of it as you will ... "Blah blah blah, abc - xyz"

2. This what I strongly believe... based on x amount of experience or x amount of reasoned logic presented..."Blah blah blah, abc - xyz"

3. This thing is true, the other thing is false... Because of x amount of personal experience or reasoned logic, or because I say it is, or there is a proliferation of fundamental agreement present.

The moment you get into the buisness of stating that this thing is true, the other thing is false, you will always coax debate. I believe most people have difficulty separating what is a strong personal beliefe from that which is a fact, and this is the root of much interpersonal struggle. In the world of Racquet Technology there are suprisingly few facts, beyond resonable debate, and even those "facts" might someday in the future be re- written. It was a "fact" at one time that the world was flat. We might never have conflict if we stick to version 1 and 2, but version 3 is sometimes where the most usefull conversations happen, during the conflict.

Best Regards,
Jack

jonolau
03-06-2006, 12:35 AM
Thanks jonolau, I like you, too! :D

BTW, congratulations on reaching your 1,000th post in record time!! :D
SIGH ... point proven, full of innuendoes and sarcasm reeking from his posts.

BreakPoint
03-06-2006, 01:21 AM
SIGH ... point proven, full of innuendoes and sarcasm reeking from his posts.

Hmmm.....looks like your post count is regressing? :confused: :(

You've posted more times since then but your post count is down to 999? Hmmm.....strange. :confused:

saralara
03-06-2006, 01:49 AM
I like NBM and Break point too...

Jonalau:
"BP is just a pure hypocrite who will spit in your face, smile and apoligise"

I think you are wrong. I think Break Point is more impulsive.

For the rest, not all in life si black or white ...Don t forget that NBM and BP have something commun:Tennis..I m sure, if they would meet personlay, would be totaly different.

greetings

Lara

Ps.Sorry for my english, but I do my best ;)