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View Full Version : To Finally put this all to bed, read this months RSI


TommyGun
06-16-2004, 09:01 AM
In the Racquet sports industry magazine, this month Wilson has an article about their "Pro Room". It explains in detail that basically none of their sponsored pros use racquets near off the shelf. They mention that they may take a frame, say like the old PS 6.0, and then drill a 16X19 pattern in it for a customer, even though it is sold retail as 18X20.

Interesting article. Wilson said they Pro Room did over 2500 custom racquets last year.

tg

dander
06-16-2004, 10:04 AM
can you post this? most of us don't have acess to RSI

PureCarlosMoyaDrive
06-16-2004, 10:52 AM
Wow, hook me up with that magazine article please. This sound interesting. But 6.0's are 16x19, not standard 18x20

lelopez
06-16-2004, 11:22 AM
PCMD, I'm sure you meant that 6.0's are 16 x 18......the Tour 90's are the ones that are 16 x 19

lelopez
06-16-2004, 12:41 PM
To avoid any legal troubles the posting of the article has been removed. If you're interested in the article you can go to the Racquet Sports Industry Magazine website and request a temporary username and password. The article is from the July 2004 issue.

L.

AAAA
06-16-2004, 01:01 PM
Breaking down the production of a racquet into 3 stages:

Stage 1) Making the frame MOLD with string pattern and handle put on later.

Stage 2) String pattern drilled

Stage 3) Handle is made.

Assuming the article is right in every detail it appears the Tour 90 available to consumers has the same MOLD as Federer's Tour 90s but with a different handle, and possibly a different string pattern.

Steve F.
06-16-2004, 02:27 PM
Nice read - thanks for the post lelopez and TommyGun

PrestigeClassic
06-16-2004, 08:50 PM
Breaking down the production of a racquet into 3 stages:

Stage 1) Making the frame MOLD with string pattern and handle put on later.

Stage 2) String pattern drilled

Stage 3) Handle is made.

Assuming the article is right in every detail it appears the Tour 90 available to consumers has the same MOLD as Federer's Tour 90s but with a different handle, and possibly a different string pattern.

Would you feel comfortable if you were giving rackets to Roger Federer that came out of the actual Tour 90 molds but were only different in their handle and string pattern (not just possible--that's for sure!)? I didn't think so! They are also boxier, like his old 6.0 85 is. But I agree they look closer to 90 sq. in. and all that jazz.

Metzler
06-16-2004, 08:51 PM
If you read the article closely, you will see it says they put lead tape on or drill holes to provide pattern and balance desired. Your local pro shop can do this for you. This is not news, and does not justify the wacky stories that the Bryans' Surges are hyper 6.1's painted over.

AAAA
06-17-2004, 04:52 AM
Breaking down the production of a racquet into 3 stages:

Stage 1) Making the frame MOLD with string pattern and handle put on later.

Stage 2) String pattern drilled

Stage 3) Handle is made.

Assuming the article is right in every detail it appears the Tour 90 available to consumers has the same MOLD as Federer's Tour 90s but with a different handle, and possibly a different string pattern.

Would you feel comfortable if you were giving rackets to Roger Federer that came out of the actual Tour 90 molds but were only different in their handle and string pattern (not just possible--that's for sure!)? I didn't think so! They are also boxier, like his old 6.0 85 is. But I agree they look closer to 90 sq. in. and all that jazz.

'Would I feel comfortable'? PrestigeClassic, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying the Wilson guy is lying when he states the consumer Tour 90 is from the same mold and production line as Federer's versions?

Nyl
06-17-2004, 07:06 AM
it's definitly article of the year.

though, i'll be surprised if off-da-shelf tour90 is what federer is using. i'm positive that the weight of federer's tour90 is modified.

touchytennis
06-17-2004, 07:18 AM
"Frame geometry is always going to be the major determinant in the way the racquet plays, and we can even customize that."

do you think they make molds to accomplish that?

007
06-17-2004, 09:44 AM
this is no different than in the world of alpine ski racing where racers 'appear' to be using skis that you & I can buy but, in fact, have been 100% custom made for racers based on height, weight, etc...Flex patterns, stiffness, sidecut, sidewall angle, vibration damping and layups are tailored to the skier. World Cup skiers race on paintjobs. Herman Maier does not/could not use a stock pair Atomics. There's way more customizing/equipment science at work here than in tennis.

kreative
06-17-2004, 10:51 AM
very nice post.

TommyGun
06-17-2004, 12:00 PM
I agree that any good racquet tech can do most of the customization. But what you need to know is that not only is it possibly a different frame, but if you saw the picture behind the article of the pro room there were Wilson frames long discontinued that seem to be in high stock.

The biggest gripe I always have is when they paint a racquet to look like a totally different model. THAT is not right. Customizing a racquet with grip, tape and the like is not deceptive. Federer is NOT using an nCode, but its painted that way.

noname
06-17-2004, 02:02 PM
TommyGun,
what racquets are you referring to on that picture that are long discontinued. I looked and couldn't really see any.

lelopez
06-17-2004, 02:13 PM
Some pics of the Wilson Pro Room are available in the July 2004 issue of the RSI magazine, you can see them in www.racquettech.com

L.

Verbal_Kint
06-17-2004, 02:14 PM
please cut and paste these pictures, I need to put in a username and password.

Marnix

lelopez
06-17-2004, 02:15 PM
I tried cutting and pasting but couldn't figure it out.......please be more than welcome to do it if you know how.

There must be an awful amount of players that are going to switch to the "nCode" racquets since it seems that is the racquet occupying most of the stock in the room.

Verbal_Kint
06-17-2004, 02:42 PM
You could send me an email, I'll host them on my site. tennis@NOSPAMrnix.nl. You know which part to take out, right?

Marnix

lelopez
06-18-2004, 05:37 AM
Pics should be easy to get to by getting a temporary username and password at www.racquettech.com

L.

Verbal_Kint
06-18-2004, 06:06 AM
www.rnix.nl/wilson.htm


Marnix

lelopez
06-18-2004, 10:04 AM
Thanks Marnix. Lot of nCodes in there right? Federer must go through racquets like toilet paper

PureCarlosMoyaDrive
06-18-2004, 10:36 AM
Well, since like every pro is gonna be using that paintjob now, theres definately gotta be a lot. They've got tons of racquets though, can't they just give me like 2 of those fake n-codes....

gregraven
06-19-2004, 04:17 AM
can you post this? most of us don't have acess to RSI

While I am gratified to learn that this article is being well received, please keep in mind that this material is copyrighted. Fair Use allows quoting up to 500 words, but posting the entire article is a violation of copyright laws, especially considering that the person who posted the article failed to include the author's name, the magazine name, the date, volume, and number of the magazine, the page number on which it appeared, or any contact information about the copyright holder.

The photos also are copyrighted, and may not be reproduced without prior written consent by the copyright holder.

gregraven
06-19-2004, 04:19 AM
www.rnix.nl/wilson.htm


Marnix

The photos that you have posted on your website are copyright material. I must ask that you remove them immediately.

BDAZ
06-19-2004, 11:56 AM
where did all those pictures come from? they weren't all in the new RSI, were they?

lelopez
06-19-2004, 03:35 PM
The article posting has been removed. The pictures are from the July 2004 issue of the RSI Magazine's website.

Verbal_Kint
06-20-2004, 01:33 PM
I have no access to my ftp-server at the moment. I'll remove the picture tomorrow when I do have access. I didn't know I wasn't allowed to post them.

Marnix

BLiND
06-21-2004, 02:23 AM
This is the internet, there are no laws on here guys... thats what is so great about it :-)

gregraven
06-21-2004, 05:30 AM
Thanks you both, lelopez and Verbal_Kint, for understanding USRSA's position.

As for BLIND, what's great about the Internet is not that it's lawless, but rather that it provides access to information. Not all information is available on the Internet, and not all of that which is available is free, however. Additionally, I think that you'll find that the widespread usage of the Internet did not invalidate copyright law.

BLiND
06-21-2004, 07:30 AM
Yeah its not lawless, bad choice of words, but information is freely avaliable... which whats great :-)... copyrighted info is freely avaliable too... keep it up guys! ;-)

SEVASTASE
06-21-2004, 12:25 PM
greggraven...relax...big deal...what in the world is so classified about that crap anyway. its pretty basic simple stuff that can be done by yourself if you wanna apply....by the way : it is false advertising. if wilson takes a bunch of ncodes(what a idiotic name anyway)and gives them to federer right of the shelf do you think he would play tomorrow @ wimbledon with them?...no! by the way .....the raquet industry has hit its dead end a few years ago as far as optimal players frame is concerned. thats why there are so many paint jobs out there. prestige classic,tour, pogo, prostaff 85 and 6.1 and many more those are the best frames those brands could come up with. hyper, hot melt, liquid, intelligence, NANOTECH?....lol,do they market to ******s?....marketing gimmiks. which is ok but please dont try to sell honey to the beekeeper. if they make a basic frame better (structurally) then pro staff 85 , or 6.1 in wilsons case for example....call me , and call pete too, and just about everybody on the tour....my 2 cents.

LSee19
06-22-2004, 12:27 PM
While I can understand that the photos taken from the magazine were not properly used, the USRSA should focus it's attention on pro paintjobs and how these paintjobs lie to consumers. While I understand that racquet companies sometimes make changes to a racquet used by a pro or make a totally custom frame, it's the lying at drives me nuts. I just bought new racquets last year (Wilson Tour 90's) and they play great. But now they won't make them anymore thanks to more marketing gimmicks. Don't you think the USRSA should fight this crap from taking place. The USRSA should prevent this from happening from consumers in the tennis industry. If the WWE can admit their form of "sports entertainment" is scripted and planned, I think these manufacturers can put the proper paintjobs on pro racquets.

LSee19
06-22-2004, 12:29 PM
whoops, made a typo.....I mean't ".....The USRSA should prevent this from happening TO consumers in the tennis industry......"

gregraven
06-29-2004, 07:31 AM
(snip) I just bought new racquets last year (Wilson Tour 90's) and they play great. But now they won't make them anymore thanks to more marketing gimmicks. (snip)

LSee19, I'm having a bit of difficulty following your train of thought. If you bought racquets that you really like, why are you angry at Wilson? Would you be happier if they made Federer's racquet available to you (assuming it's different in some way from the retail version), even if you didn't like it and/or couldn't play with it? How about if you couldn't afford it? I'm not defending paint jobs, but one person at Wilson told me that if they made Taylor Dent's racquet available to the public, Taylor would have a couple dozen (or whatever), Phil would have a few, I'd have four of them, and the rest of the 10,000 production run would be sitting on shelves, because virtually no recreational player would even consider playing with such as racquet. So, you have a choice: make the pros play what we play, no matter how bad it is for their game or their health, or you buy the racquet you like best at a more or less reasonable price, and let the racquet companies advertise as they see fit. To look at it another way, if your favorite character in your favorite TV show drives a Dodge Durango (which is almost certainly there because of a form of advertising known as product placement), would you buy a Durango even if what really suited you was the PT Cruiser?

dander
06-29-2004, 07:57 AM
there you go, raven, embodying the old adage "speak rationally and carry a 414 gram stick"
teddy roosevelt would be proud...

Shane Reynolds
07-03-2004, 03:40 AM
Greg, I'm not sure you properly credited LSee19 in your post. Does Mr. Dent know that you uttered his name without his expressed written consent?