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MCN
03-17-2006, 08:24 AM
I posted here several months ago re my tennis elbow and got some good advice but now need an opinion on whether to get surgery. Had TE for nearly 2 years now - not held a racquet since then. Had 4 or 5 cortisone shots - first ones were OK - lasted for 6-8 weeks, then pain always came back again. The latest ones have been less effective. (Even had one under ultrasound - to guide it to the correct spot). Had MRI scan - showed some damage/fraying - but not too extensive. Been doing exercises such as simple stretches and rubber band-type resistance exercises - but these have NEVER been pain-free. At its worst (a year ago or so), the TE pain was pretty intense - but its settled at about 30-40% of that now - ie I can do most things OK with my hand with some discomfort (but definitely not tennis or weights etc...). There does not seem any improvement from this no matter whether I rest, or exercise or ice etc... My physio put me on some gentle weights recently but I had a flare up after a couple of days of doing these - back to maybe 70% of worst pain. 2 weeks after resting it's back down to my 30 - 40% threshold of pain again. I feel that I've tried everything - complete rest, gentle stretches and more aggressive exercise (as well as cortisone shots) - but 2 years on am COMPLETELY FED UP WITH THIS AFFLICTION. What are the chances of surgery helping? What's the recovery time (with therapy)? Should I grit my teeth and carry on with exercises? (Consultant is against surgery if possible). I'm getting to a stage where I'm getting really depressed about this.

javier sergio
03-17-2006, 09:23 AM
I had tennis elbow for about four months. I'm playing again since two weeks ago, just hitting okay with almost not backhand at all or just two handed.
It seems that you did everything in order to get better but let me tell you what I did.
No shoots eventough some of the guys I play with are surgeons and doctors trying to convince to get rid of the pain that way.
I rested for about two months, then couple of sessions of acupunture (nothing great but it helped) later at the club I play somebody gave the name of this massage therapy place and this was really the beginning of the end of TE I believe.
As I said I am playing, and next week it's going to be my 6 session of massage, that's all !!!!!
I understand your frustation because I also felt that way not being able to comb my hair, turn the key to open the car, etc.
Maybe it sounds silly massage after all you tried but in my case was great.

Good luck, Javier

javiersergio@bellsouth.net

mary fierce
03-17-2006, 11:59 AM
What surgical procedure?? I'm not aware of a surgical intervention that's generally considered useful for TE. Also, the orthopedists I've discussed this with in the past generally recommend not more than 2 or 3 cortisone injections total in the elbow for any one patient, lifetime -- some feel more than this can promote further deterioration. You don't make clear how long a period you spend away from the game -- an extended hiatus may be in order.

hifi heretic
03-18-2006, 03:42 AM
MCN,

Wow, do I ever feel your pain! ..I lived through similar hell with TE in both elbows and ended up having surgery on BOTH! The left was repaired about 3 years ago via normal 'open' release (exise damaged tissue at insertion-point) and the right was done arthroscopically 19 months ago. Prior to resorting to surgery I had undergone 15 shots of cortisone, 3 rounds of Prolotherapy injections, and nearly every imagineable strengthening regimen. The cortisone worked temporarily (better early on, then for only a short while); the prolotherapy did nothing at all (hurt like a #$$%^); and strengthening regimen only made matters worse (though it's possible I attempted this too early).

In the final analysis, I'm glad I've had the surgeries, but they were no picnic. ..It was nearly one year before I could golf after the left was done (golf was the main culprit), and 6 months before I could play tennis after having the right done arthroscopically (tennis being the main agitant of the right arm). ..Now, 18 months later, I'm able to play pain free.

Mary, the goal of surgery is to exise that bit tissue at the insertion point that is so damaged that is no longer able to repair itself. ..After cutting it away, they debride the area, drill tiny holes in the surrounding bone area to increase blood flow to the area and then close it up! It's a bit harder finding a surgeon to do the procedure arthroscopically as it's considered to be slightly higher risk (apparently, the surgeon needs to navigate the scope around vulnerable nerves). On the other hand, it almost always means a shorter recovery. My Doctor (Matthew Ramsey) is one of the leading elbow docs in Philadelpia.

I do believe surgery should be considered only as a last resort. That said, it is generally very effective. The naysayers like to point out that surgical repair has not been demonstrated "through controlled blind trials" to be effective. That may be true, but primarily because it's very difficult to set up a double blind trial for surgery - afterall, who would agree to go under anesthesia, have their skin cut/ stitched, etc. all without knowing whether they will actually receive the full procedure?! Hence, the evidence for surgery is based primarily on anecdotal evidence (as are most forms of surgery), but the anecdotal evidence is very positive.

Hope this helps.

Marius_Hancu
03-18-2006, 04:25 AM
IMO
cortisone: your first bad move:
Safin: BIG WARNING - Cortisone - destroying the tissues
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=90800
surgery would be the 2nd

take a long rest, a year if necessary
then start rehabing
you seem to have tried rehabing and playing through pain

you should never do that

but perhaps I am wrong: what was your longest period of total rest for your arm (no stretching, nothing)?

MCN
03-18-2006, 05:59 AM
Thanks for the comments - I have not played at all for nearly two years and have rested the arm for a period of a couple of months at a time. My point is that the elbow feels 'the same' no matter what I seem to do. Exercise tends to flare things up a bit. I always have pain in the elbow regardless of rest, exercise, icing etc... One of the stretching exercises I have been given involves rolling a towel up, putting this in the crook of the elbow and then stretching the arm over it (imagine a strongman showing off his biceps - it's that sort of movement). A few good stretches like this does ease out the pain a little, but it only lasts for a few minutes and then back to the normal sort of ache.
I also take your point, Marius, re give it another year - but I've had two already and feel that I have got no real benefit with things (although at its worst, the TE was really painful). My real question I guess is that if I take another year out, should I just go for an operation now and then rehab for another year - ie would there be a good chance of success with this? I'm also getting older and less fitter these days - I really want / need to play tennis again - even though it may be at a very casual / friendly level rather than more aggressive stuff. I seem to get so much conflicting advice from the medical profession - from "take it easy" to "have another cortisone shot" to "must exercise and stretch even through the pain - but don't over do it". I am so sick of all of this. I seem to get more sense here on the boards. Thanks again for all your comments.

jhp49
03-18-2006, 06:50 AM
Here's a good web site with information on elbow anatomy and treatments, including different types of surgery.
http://www.eorthopod.com/eorthopodV2/index.php/fuseaction/topics.detail/ID/d414f5c0c1de24ef15ddb6298670dc9e/TopicID/7bdad0bc8687c69f803647a3f6c16782/area/8

Marius_Hancu
03-18-2006, 09:30 AM
MCN,

It's possible that the internal scars are too important in your case to heal during a rest of several months (I never needed more than 2 months of total rest).

In that case, you might need surgery.

However, I remember the case of one of the pros here (Kaptain Karl, perhaps), who had a horrific case of TE in his youth, was told by docs he should have surgery, put down the racquet for about 5 years, started other sports (including martial arts), which contributed to the healing. And now he's back into tennis.

FWIW, check these threads, perhaps they help:

Tennis Elbow: Roundup...
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=556999

I Have Elbows Made Of Steel
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=396126

Has anyone tried shock wave therapy for tennis elbow?
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=317173

hifi heretic
03-18-2006, 12:11 PM
Marius,

Not to disagree with what is generally great advice on your part, but 5 years rest?? Goodness, that seems like an awfully long time.

TE surgery (called epicondular release and debridement) is indeed surgery and should be accorded all the careful consideration that it deserves. That said, it isn't like having a hip replaced, or even having an ACL (knee) repaired. It's easy for a qualified surgeon to do, is minimally invasive (as surgery goes) and - according to most reports - almost always results in a dramatic (if not complete) improvement.

MCN
03-18-2006, 04:41 PM
Thanks for all your help everyone. I'm seeing my physio again in a couple of weeks to see how I've progressed with the weights (not been doing well with them because of flare-up, but trying to keep up with stretching etc...). I think she said that if things didn't go well, it's back to the consultant who'll make a new judgement. I'll discuss surgery and see what he has to say (- he's generally against this though). I'll keep you guys up to date with what happens next. I do have to say (again) that TE is a pig of an affliction - I've found that it wrecks other things as well - such as swimming or biking since I still can't use my arm too well or grip things. Unfortunately here in the UK, most doctors see TE as something not too serious - ie "just take something else up and take it easy", but I've found that my whole life has been altered because of this - sporting-wise and socially (eg not being able to play against my kids who are both enthusiastic players). I know I sound a bit grumpy - but I honestly never expected to be out of things for so long from what seemed such a 'small' injury. Once again, thanks for your support.

morten
03-19-2006, 09:42 AM
I have tried rest too... i feel more pain after rest!as soon as i touched the racket. But if i play 3 days in a row it is almost better the third day!!! I sort of believe that it all "stops down there" if i dont use it now. Been 9 months now, getting gradually better, 80%. Doctor says i should use it normally now, and it will eventually "burn out".. opinions on that? Also i have tried just about everything but ice, will that be good?

javier sergio
03-21-2006, 06:45 PM
ice after playing...

hifi heretic
03-21-2006, 06:51 PM
morten,

..feeling pain before you play, but none after is NOT unusual. You're body produces chemicals that numb pain - that is all that is happening. It does not mean the problem is truly subsiding, it only means you're feeling it less. The danger, of course, is that you're making it much worse as you play. Then, the next (or next) day, it will hurt even more.

And beware using ice. ..Ice numbs pain, but it also reduces bloodflow to the area. This is often recommended by those who mistakenly refer to TE as tendonitis. It is NOT tendonitis (chronic swelling of a tendon) but rather tendonosis which refers to a tendon that has a worn/frayed insertion point. Ice helps the former but can actually inhibit healing of the latter. If you have a doctor who is refering to TE as tendonitis (and recommends ice) then you may want to seek out a new doctor as your doctor has not kept abreast of the latest research w/ respect to TE.

morten
03-22-2006, 06:52 AM
hifi, i dont feel pain the day after. Also i dont feel pain before i play, just after 20 mins. Weaker gradually. Strange thing is the more often i play the better it is... so i will stop the icing then.. nothing helps, i will just play, screw the whole damn arm.

jhp49
03-22-2006, 07:14 AM
I'm using a three setting 1MHz portable ultrasound therapy device with a max effective intensity of 1.13W/cm2 for twice a day ultrasound therapy. The lower and middle settings seem to work best due the depth needed to treat the tendons in the elbow. I've been using it a week and it has helped my TE/GE. I hope to start playing again in a week or less. Ultrasound therapy may be worth a try, though it gets expensive if you go to a PT to get treatments. That's why I bought my oun portable unit.
JHP49

10sNut
03-22-2006, 09:15 AM
I heard that there is a new procedure where they extract plasma from your own body and inject it in the area, which helps speed up the healing process. You might want to look into it before you decide on surgery or more shots.

Healing after surgery takes a long time if you're in your 30s. I'm still experiencing occasional soreness two years after having radial tunnel surgery for an overuse injury in my forearm.

scotus
03-22-2006, 09:48 AM
I'm using a three setting 1MHz portable ultrasound therapy device with a max effective intensity of 1.13W/cm2 for twice a day ultrasound therapy. The lower and middle settings seem to work best due the depth needed to treat the tendons in the elbow. I've been using it a week and it has helped my TE/GE. I hope to start playing again in a week or less. Ultrasound therapy may be worth a try, though it gets expensive if you go to a PT to get treatments. That's why I bought my oun portable unit.
JHP49

Where do you buy this device? How much does it cost? Also, do most health insurances cover this purchase? Are these portables as good as ones used at PT?

wrm12
03-22-2006, 09:53 AM
I'm using a three setting 1MHz portable ultrasound therapy device with a max effective intensity of 1.13W/cm2 for twice a day ultrasound therapy. The lower and middle settings seem to work best due the depth needed to treat the tendons in the elbow. I've been using it a week and it has helped my TE/GE. I hope to start playing again in a week or less. Ultrasound therapy may be worth a try, though it gets expensive if you go to a PT to get treatments. That's why I bought my oun portable unit.
JHP49

Hi,
I'm getting ultrasound treatments (two 15 minutes sessions so far) at a Chiropractor's office and seems to help me. I'm using also a Coopercare brace.

Which ultrasound machine do you use and where you got it?

Thanks.

jhp49
03-22-2006, 11:48 AM
I purchased my unit from **** for $135. I didn't want to get a prescription. I carefully looked at maximum output . I wanted at least .5w/cm2 but preferred 1w/cm2. There is much debate over which frequency, 1mhz or 3mhz, is better for tennis elbow. Most medical articles I read used 1mhz so I went with 1Mhz. My unit is the Sun-tens ultrasonic device model SU-100. The **** item number is 5648519442 . There are other units on EBbay that might work, but I couldn't get a response from the sellers on maximum output.

There is a Canadian company that sells a unit. it is Sonic Relief. The site is http://www.sonicrelief.ca/index.cfm? There is a lot of good info there.

A portable ultrasound unit is available with prescription at http://www.promedproducts.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.29/it.A/id.2585/.f

A site with some ultrasount therapy info
http://www.electrotherapy.org/electro/ultrasound/therapeutic_ultrasound.htm

Be sure to order some ultrasound gel. You'll need it.

Hope this helps.

JHP49

jhp49
03-22-2006, 11:50 AM
Oops, I've been beeped out. I purchased it on the great auction site. The number in my previous post is a currrent great auction site number for the product.

JHP49

morten
03-24-2006, 03:28 AM
hifi, i dont feel pain the day after. Also i dont feel pain before i play, just after 20 mins. Weaker gradually. Strange thing is the more often i play the better it is... so i will stop the icing then.. nothing helps, i will just play, screw the whole damn arm.
any comments hifi?

morten
03-24-2006, 04:09 AM
10s nut, about your radial tunnel case, i think i moght have the same, any non surgical treatments i should try? how did you find out you had it?

Nester
03-24-2006, 07:22 AM
I use the Sonic Relief ultrasound device to treat my tennis elbow and it works very well. My physical therapist recommended it and I did my homework before ordering one. There are others on the market that sell for less, but they are not approved by Health Canada or FDA for anything more than massage therapy. Also the Sonic Relief comes with a specially formulated gel that when used with the ultrasound unit delivers heat and cold directly to the affected area. The customer service from the company is also outstanding. My wife used the unit on her arthritic knee and the gel bothered her so the company sent us a regular ultrasound gel at no cost.

If your interested in ordering the product Sonic Relief's phone number is 1-877-77SONIC

wrm12
04-03-2006, 08:07 AM
I'm using a three setting 1MHz portable ultrasound therapy device with a max effective intensity of 1.13W/cm2 for twice a day ultrasound therapy. The lower and middle settings seem to work best due the depth needed to treat the tendons in the elbow. I've been using it a week and it has helped my TE/GE. I hope to start playing again in a week or less. Ultrasound therapy may be worth a try, though it gets expensive if you go to a PT to get treatments. That's why I bought my oun portable unit.
JHP49

Hi jhp49,
Are you back to playing now? After 5 sessions I'm getting better but not 100%. I played on Saturday doubles and had some discomfort while playing.

Thanks.

jhp49
04-03-2006, 10:01 AM
Hi jhp49,
Are you back to playing now? After 5 sessions I'm getting better but not 100%. I played on Saturday doubles and had some discomfort while playing.

Thanks.

wrm12,

I started hitting last Thursday. I've hit against my ball machine twice and with a hitting partner once. I'm going to play men's doubles tomorrow night for the first time in over 4 weeks. Ultrasound definitely helped. I think if I would have had my ultrasound therapy device earlier, I would be playing by now. Unless insurance is paying for your ultrasound, it definitely pays to buy your own. Having your own machine is much more convenient than visiting the PT or chiropractor. If you own one, you get to use it right after you play.

I'm glad to hear you're back to playing so quickly. I think ultrasound may be a 3 to 6 week treatment.

jhp49

hifi heretic
04-03-2006, 10:16 AM
any comments hifi?
Hi Morten,

..Sorry, i missed your prompt.

I still think it's a mistake to conclude that your TE isn't worsening simply because the pain isn't constant. In my case, my TE gradually worsened. Some days, it hurt the whole time I was playing, other days just for the first 20 minutes, and yet other times, only after the 2nd or 3rd set. This inconsistency would sometimes give me hope, and other times it totally depressed me. ..i simply couldn't figure it out. Eventually, however, the pain got to the point that it hurt all the time. One constant, however, was weakness - throughout my battle, my right arm continued to get weaker and weaker. ..The weakness was very specific to tennis. ..Throughout the entire battle, I had very good muscle mass & definition. Years ago, I was a powerlifter and still work out. Even when the TE was at it's worst, I was able to curl a 40lb dumbbell for 15 careful (and painfree) reps with my right arm, but I lacked any strength when it came to trying to "flick" a ball back with a backhand that trickled over the net. Very frustrating, and, honestly, depressing.

My recommendation is to give your elbow as much rest as you can. During this time, do not play ANY tennis, and try to avoid using the arm as much as possible. Some injuries need activity to affect healing - but I don't think TE is one of them. During this time, I'd also avoid using ice (diminishes blood flow to the injury) ..If months go by without ANY improvement, then it may be time to consider surgery, or maybe one of the more "fringe" treatments like Osotron (never tried it), or Prolotherapy (tried it, but it didn't work for me. Perhaps my TE was too far gone).

heycal
04-25-2006, 10:30 PM
"During this time, I'd also avoid using ice (diminishes blood flow to the injury) ..."

I thought ice INCREASES blood flow to an injury, not diminishes it.

dennis1188
04-28-2006, 06:55 PM
Listen to Marius, Find a therapy clinic (w/ doctors referral) with a BTE (Baltimore Therapy Equipment/Machine).
May take a month or two (twice a week), but worked well for my arm and hand injury. Make sure u get yr med. insurance to pay for the complete arm therapy, which incls. ultrasound,heat treatments (heated corn husk,hot wax,hot/cold/hot bath/imersion.In the US this treatment is expensive about 6-7K, for about 2months, but IMO better option than surgery or cortisone just for TE.

Pancho
04-29-2006, 09:30 AM
Have to tried accupunture? It helped me a lot. I just don't want to play too frequently a week and I also try not to hit too hard all the time. You may want to try that.

MCN
05-12-2006, 02:58 AM
Hi everyone - an update on some interesting developments on my TE. Was watching my kids play tennis a couple of weeks ago and couldn't resist grabbing someone's racquet for a quick hit (I had access to a TE strap that I put round my forearm). This was first time I'd hit a ball in nearly 2 years. I had 1/2 hour gentle hit and found that I managed to get on relatively OK (some pain on backhands). Iced extensively when I got home. Next day arm hurt like heck. Day after that - arm better than it has been for ages (??!!). Played again last week - for an hour - but with newer softer racquet. Managed OK again - same as last time. (Still have pain though and couldn't play the way I used to). Had an appointment with TE surgeon yesterday to see whether I need surgery. His take on all of this is that there is no point on doing physio and exercises (as I have been for 2 years now, with little success) but better to play tennis gently and adjust technique (and play through pain) rather than experience discomfort doing repetitive exercises. He cited 80% success in surgery for TE (with 4-6 months recovery time). So I need to decide what to do now - but boy did it feel good being on a court again.

wrm12
05-12-2006, 06:43 AM
Hi everyone - an update on some interesting developments on my TE. Was watching my kids play tennis a couple of weeks ago and couldn't resist grabbing someone's racquet for a quick hit (I had access to a TE strap that I put round my forearm). This was first time I'd hit a ball in nearly 2 years. I had 1/2 hour gentle hit and found that I managed to get on relatively OK (some pain on backhands). Iced extensively when I got home. Next day arm hurt like heck. Day after that - arm better than it has been for ages (??!!). Played again last week - for an hour - but with newer softer racquet. Managed OK again - same as last time. (Still have pain though and couldn't play the way I used to). Had an appointment with TE surgeon yesterday to see whether I need surgery. His take on all of this is that there is no point on doing physio and exercises (as I have been for 2 years now, with little success) but better to play tennis gently and adjust technique (and play through pain) rather than experience discomfort doing repetitive exercises. He cited 80% success in surgery for TE (with 4-6 months recovery time). So I need to decide what to do now - but boy did it feel good being on a court again.

Have you tried ultrasound? I'm using it and is helping. 2-3 times a day for 2 weeks then once a day. I had play though and should't, rest should be done for at leas two weeks until the pain is gone and start back slowly.

MCN
05-12-2006, 09:01 AM
Yes - tried ultrasound at physio sessions (although not 3 times a day!). Did buy an 'infrasound' massager (used in pain relief to stimulate bloodflow etc...) and used this quite a lot. Tried acupuncture as well. These things all brought some sort of respite in their own way - but very marginal. Remember this TE has been going on for 2 years - like 'HiFi Heretic' I've had good days, bad days, but no real pattern of improvement in this time. Irrespective of prolonged rest, gentle exercise, or recently playing some gentle tennis, elbow settles down to the same level - just moderately painful. I'm similar to Morten's view now - "screw the whole damn arm" - it hurts anyway so I might as well play a bit through some pain (that's also what the surgeon has said). I'm seriously considering surgery this summer with a hope to start playing again next year.
Anyone else other than HiFi Heretic had surgery? Did you get back to tennis again eventually?

Tennisaurus
05-12-2006, 07:29 PM
TE is a very nasty condition. Took me a long time to get back playing. Acupuncture helped me. See my old post of what I had gone through and done.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=445666&postcount=19

I am still careful not to re-inflame the area and have been successful. I wish you the best of luck.

Marius_Hancu
05-13-2006, 04:56 AM
MCN

What's shown by MRI or other techniques? Any comments from docs on that?

MCN
05-13-2006, 03:58 PM
Marius - MRI showed some 'fraying' of the tendons attaching to the bone - but not significant damage. Specialists said that quite often players with bad TE manage to get better with 2-3 months physio - but conversely 'minimal' damage sometimes just does not respond well to treatment. They don't know why. The more I speak to specialists, the more I realise that TE is one strange affliction. The last guy I saw (a specialist surgeon) reckons that if I were 30 i wouldn't feel the pain that I do (I'm in my early 50's) and that studies have concluded that there is no evidence to suggest that physio helps to any great extent (it does keep the arm stronger, though). He suggests to adjust my play and get through the pain if I can - ie if I'm feeling discomfort with physio then I might as well 'enjoy' myself and play tennis with some discomfort. He says it will probably go away by the time I'm 60 (but so what, I'll probably be watching TV with pipe and slippers by then - point is I need to play NOW). At the end of the day, different people respond in different ways to treatment - I guess I fall into the 10% that don't get better quickly. Which is why I may take the decision to get the damned thing sorted under the knife. I've been quoted 80% success rate for this op (but the surgeon still thinks it may be better to play gently thorugh pain and just wait and see what happens - so he's not pushing me for surgery). Decisions, decisions ....

jhp49
05-13-2006, 06:55 PM
MCN,

If you are considering surgery, why now spend $200 on an ultrasound unit and try it for a number of weeks, 2-3 times a day 15-20 minutes a treatment. Other than $200, what do you have to lose? You might have a lot to gain. It was about the 5 days of 3 treatments a day before I got some relief.

JHP49

tennis-n-sc
05-14-2006, 12:54 PM
Just had my elbow scoped in mid-April. Never had an MRI, the X-Ray clearly showed a lot of abnormal particals present. I had a ruptured roatator cuff repaired in December and the rehab with it was doing very well so I thought I would get the elbow cleaned out. The doc said it was one of the worst he had ever seen just due to the amount of junk extracted. I even have a specimen bottle with about 25 pieces of the larger particles, most about 1/8 the size of a dime. The surgical procedure caused ungodly swelling that took about 3 weeks to disipate 80% and I am back lifting light weights although not back on the court yet. I hope to start hitting some easy balls in a week or so.

Mine wasn't a case of sever tennis elbow, althought there was some sharp pains from time to time. I just couldn't straighten my arm out. It was about 15 degrees from straight. Unfortunately, I don't think the scoping procedure is gonna help that but I can tell a difference in the overall motion. Good luck to you.

Rickson
05-14-2006, 10:32 PM
I posted here several months ago re my tennis elbow and got some good advice but now need an opinion on whether to get surgery. Had TE for nearly 2 years now - not held a racquet since then. Had 4 or 5 cortisone shots - first ones were OK - lasted for 6-8 weeks, then pain always came back again. The latest ones have been less effective. (Even had one under ultrasound - to guide it to the correct spot). Had MRI scan - showed some damage/fraying - but not too extensive. Been doing exercises such as simple stretches and rubber band-type resistance exercises - but these have NEVER been pain-free. At its worst (a year ago or so), the TE pain was pretty intense - but its settled at about 30-40% of that now - ie I can do most things OK with my hand with some discomfort (but definitely not tennis or weights etc...). There does not seem any improvement from this no matter whether I rest, or exercise or ice etc... My physio put me on some gentle weights recently but I had a flare up after a couple of days of doing these - back to maybe 70% of worst pain. 2 weeks after resting it's back down to my 30 - 40% threshold of pain again. I feel that I've tried everything - complete rest, gentle stretches and more aggressive exercise (as well as cortisone shots) - but 2 years on am COMPLETELY FED UP WITH THIS AFFLICTION. What are the chances of surgery helping? What's the recovery time (with therapy)? Should I grit my teeth and carry on with exercises? (Consultant is against surgery if possible). I'm getting to a stage where I'm getting really depressed about this.Going under the knife is not always the answer so keep fighting back to a full recovery. Whenever you feel pain, ice the elbow. On days you don't flare up, try some warmup and stretching so that you could increase your range of motion. Get a sports massage specialist to massage you for several minutes or do it yourself if you can't afford the cost or if you don't have the coverage. You have a lot of options before surgery so use them and see if you can get better without the surgery.

sandiegotennisboy
05-15-2006, 12:18 AM
have you been tested for some auto immune disease that prevents you from healing completely?

i think with all the stuff youve tried, surgery may be the way to go. then if that doesnt work, maybe try a new sport.

chess9
05-15-2006, 12:54 AM
Just had my elbow scoped in mid-April. Never had an MRI, the X-Ray clearly showed a lot of abnormal particals present. I had a ruptured roatator cuff repaired in December and the rehab with it was doing very well so I thought I would get the elbow cleaned out. The doc said it was one of the worst he had ever seen just due to the amount of junk extracted. I even have a specimen bottle with about 25 pieces of the larger particles, most about 1/8 the size of a dime. The surgical procedure caused ungodly swelling that took about 3 weeks to disipate 80% and I am back lifting light weights although not back on the court yet. I hope to start hitting some easy balls in a week or so.

Mine wasn't a case of sever tennis elbow, althought there was some sharp pains from time to time. I just couldn't straighten my arm out. It was about 15 degrees from straight. Unfortunately, I don't think the scoping procedure is gonna help that but I can tell a difference in the overall motion. Good luck to you.

WOW! That's a lot of junk in an elbow. I don't have any tennis elbow, but I notice my right elbow doesn't straighten as far as my left, by about 5-10 degrees. The only time I ever have any elbow problems is after doing curls at the gym. My elbow is a little tired/sore on the inside (GE).

Here are the things I do to prevent this dreaded affliction:

1. I wear a warming supporter on my right elbow on cold days.
2. I warm up slowly, by hitting gentle half-volleys against a wall for about ten minutes; then I step back about 20 feet and hit some gentle ground strokes; then I go back to the service line and very gently swing the racquet in the service motion for about one minute, then I hit some very easy serves. I don't start serving hard until about half way through my first set of actual play.
3. If it is cooler when I finish, I put the supporter on my right elbow after playing.
4. I lift twice a week during the season; 3-4 days per week during the Winter.
5. I often practice with an old wooden racquet strung with loose gut. I also have a Sampras model 6.0 with gut and sometimes I use that.

Good luck with that. Hope you can play before Winter sets in.

-Robert

Descartes
05-25-2006, 09:04 PM
So I went to buy the Sonic Relief ultrasound that was mentioned a while back but do you think you can get it here? Not very easily. All the sites listed on this forum would only sell in Canada. In my search I eventually found a site that does. They also have a writeup about the use of ultrasound for tennis elbow (http://www.aidmytendon.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.tennis-elbow). I also heard about a unit that is available now that you strap on to your elbow or shoulder and you don't have to do anything else. Maybe no gel required? I couldn't find it. Has anyone seen this anywhere?

AdeAce
12-07-2006, 03:30 AM
"During this time, I'd also avoid using ice (diminishes blood flow to the injury) ..."

I thought ice INCREASES blood flow to an injury, not diminishes it.

Unfortunately not. Ice does slow the circulation down and I too was very concerned about icing down with cold compression supports, but after lengthy discussions with my physio team about this theory I was told that after icing, the blood flow in fact increases and I have found it worked for me.

The theory is known as Hunters something or other. Will try and research it and post some more information

Descartes
02-11-2007, 10:00 PM
Ice is pretty common as a treatment; most people have heard of the RICE therapy (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation).

I was looking at a tennis elbow site and saw something new. on this site they're talking about URICE. Ever hear of that? http://www.aidmytenniselbow.com/treatments.php

heycal
02-15-2007, 09:53 PM
Ice is pretty common as a treatment; most people have heard of the RICE therapy (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation).

I was looking at a tennis elbow site and saw something new. on this site they're talking about URICE. Ever hear of that? http://www.aidmytenniselbow.com/treatments.php

There are some posters around here who have personal ultrasound devices and have reported a bit of success with them I think.