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View Full Version : Instability in OS Frames?


byealmeens
04-05-2006, 11:51 AM
I've recently experimented with a few Oversize frames - 110 si. There are many things I like, but the one thing I consistently do not is what seems to be more instability. I've tried a POG Oversize (heavier, flexier) and a DNX V1 Oversize (lighter, stiffer) and even tried adding weight, but always found the same issue, where the head just did not feel that solid at impact. Is this just because of the larger head-size? Is this a given with these frames? Any OS users have similar experiences? Thanks.

louis netman
04-05-2006, 12:07 PM
More sweet spot surface area, longer strings...it's the typical oversize feel...
direct center hits shouldn't be that far off, however...it's those slightly off center shots that can feel funny...

Ripper
04-05-2006, 12:19 PM
I've recently experimented with a few Oversize frames - 110 si. There are many things I like, but the one thing I consistently do not is what seems to be more instability. I've tried a POG Oversize (heavier, flexier) and a DNX V1 Oversize (lighter, stiffer) and even tried adding weight, but always found the same issue, where the head just did not feel that solid at impact. Is this just because of the larger head-size? Is this a given with these frames? Any OS users have similar experiences? Thanks.

Well, logically, everything else being equal, the structural rigidity of an Over Size head is going to be lower than a Mid Size or, even, a Mid Plus; probably, causing higher hoop flex and vibration. However, rarely are things left equal by raquet manufacturers regarding their different sized models of the same line. Generally, the larger the head, the thicker the beam. The POG OS doesn't follow this rule, though, as it has a 19mm straight beam, just like it's 93 sq. inch brother. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be surpirsed if the POG OS' hoop is more reinforced internally.

If you want an OS that doesn't flex at the hoop, don't go for the player's OS raquets. Something like Prince's Thunder Rip OS isn't going to flex one little bit at the hoop, I can assure you.

If, on the other hand, what you're refering to is the torsion one feels at the hand when we hit a ball to the sides of the center of the stringbed, close to the hoop, I'd say it's the nature of the beast, because of the extra leverage (eventhough, there are theories that say that, the larger the head, the lower the torsion force, in these types of off center hits, due to the larger counter balance, but I don't know about that). Think about it this way, an off center hit on a OS raquet may (I stress, "may") feel bad, funny or whatever, but, had you been using something smaller, the ball would have struck the frame.

Edit: Key word here is: compromise ;)

tennis_nerd22
04-05-2006, 01:32 PM
I've recently experimented with a few Oversize frames - 110 si. There are many things I like, but the one thing I consistently do not is what seems to be more instability. I've tried a POG Oversize (heavier, flexier) and a DNX V1 Oversize (lighter, stiffer) and even tried adding weight, but always found the same issue, where the head just did not feel that solid at impact. Is this just because of the larger head-size? Is this a given with these frames? Any OS users have similar experiences? Thanks.

your definitely right. thats why with my current racket, which is an OS, im going to add some lead at 3 and 9, or just experiment. i dont know why its like that, but it is. i have a feeling its to do with the head heavy balance though

Ripper
04-05-2006, 01:39 PM
your definitely right. thats why with my current racket, which is an OS, im going to add some lead at 3 and 9, or just experiment. i dont know why its like that, but it is. i have a feeling its to do with the head heavy balance though

If you think it's because of the head heavy balance, don't add weight at 3 and 9, because you'll make it more head heavy. Maybe, add it to the handle.

cruise30166
04-05-2006, 01:47 PM
What I do is use an OS frame that is head light and then add lead tape to the head. This works for me.

WayneCM
04-05-2006, 01:50 PM
started wit OS frames but the feel was always off so i can sympathise and concur... Don't know why..... I moved down to a 105in head and now use a 100in play is really solid......

Ripper
04-05-2006, 01:51 PM
What I do is use an OS frame that is head light and then add lead tape to the head. This works for me.

Let me guess... POG OS?

gokou703
04-05-2006, 01:57 PM
shoot guys i put 15 grams in the handle making my ti radical extremely head light, weight 12.7 ounces. surprisingly extremely stable! even though i didnt put a gram of lead tape in the head...

byealmeens
04-05-2006, 02:25 PM
If you want an OS that doesn't flex at the hoop, don't go for the player's OS raquets. Something like Prince's Thunder Rip OS isn't going to flex one little bit at the hoop, I can assure you.
I've tried these. The DNX V1 OS was very firm in the hoop but still unstable. Added weight in the handle only, and felt good, but not as good as the MP.

If, on the other hand, what you're refering to is the torsion one feels at the hand when we hit a ball to the sides of the center of the stringbed, close to the hoop, I'd say it's the nature of the beast, because of the extra leverage (eventhough, there are theories that say that, the larger the head, the lower the torsion force, in these types of off center hits, due to the larger counter balance, but I don't know about that)
That's exactly what I'm referring to. To me, stability is a resistance to that type of twisting at the hand. Even when I hit the sweetspot, I felt it. When I hit outside the sweetspot, it felt awful. And I had heard the same, that this was supposed to be opposite, that the larger sweetspot and larger head created a more stable platform at contact. I don't know... just doesn't feel that way to me.

byealmeens
04-05-2006, 02:28 PM
started wit OS frames but the feel was always off so i can sympathise and concur... Don't know why..... I moved down to a 105in head and now use a 100in play is really solid......
Yep - I'm the same way. The 102si V1 classic, or CAT V1 feels much better to me than the DNX V1 OS. You wouldn't think 8 si would make that much of a difference....

tennisnj
04-05-2006, 07:50 PM
I'm the opposite. The Cat V1 was much more rigid on my arm then the DNX V1. I think part of it is the 'whole' Catapult system. The feel is much too muted for my taste. Tried the Cat 4 (Version 1) & it was the same muted feel. I've had much more unstability w/the Cats then any other Volkl frame I've ever tried. I guess it depends on your strength, swing style & style of play.

jackcrawford
04-05-2006, 08:21 PM
I'm the opposite. The Cat V1 was much more rigid on my arm then the DNX V1. I think part of it is the 'whole' Catapult system. The feel is much too muted for my taste. Tried the Cat 4 (Version 1) & it was the same muted feel. I've had much more unstability w/the Cats then any other Volkl frame I've ever tried. I guess it depends on your strength, swing style & style of play.
I hate the Catapults - I think they're arm wreckers. I love the classic, quantum and DNX V1 mp's and the 10 series of players frames is great, but they missed the boat to me w/ the catapults.

travlerajm
04-05-2006, 08:50 PM
Think about it this way, an off center hit on a OS raquet may (I stress, "may") feel bad, funny or whatever, but, had you been using something smaller, the ball would have struck the frame.

Nice way to sum it up!

Soundog
04-06-2006, 01:12 AM
This is what I think from personal observation ( nothing scientifically measured ) :

Principle 1 : Mass close to the impact point has more effect than mass far away.

Put a small amount of lead in the handle - it doesn't affect the power much. Put that small amount of lead in the head - the power increases much more ( assuming you've swung the racket at the same speed and the ball is coming at the same velocity ).

Where the frame is small, the mass of the frame that affects the feel is closer to the hitting point on the string bed, so there is more local inertia to absorb the impact. Larger head frames have the mass further away from the hitting point on the string bed, so the mass of the frame as far as torsion is concerned doesn't have as much effect on absorbing the impact so there is more twisting recoil in the larger head.

Also, larger head frames are made lighter - per centimetre of frame. They have to be otherwise the whole frame becomes to heavy. Cut 3 cm of frame out of a PS85 and compare it to 3 cm of frame cut out of a 110sq in frame that has the same dead weight. The PS85 frame section will weigh more

Principle 2 - Longer strings will stretch more than a shorter string.

A longer string will stretch a greater distance that a shorter string given elasticity per cm of string remains the same. Therefore shorter strings, even if strung at a lower tension will exhibit less elasticity than a longer string and will play like a stiffer racket. This has no effect on the twisting of the racket, but I reckon it does affect the feel. A larger racket exhibits greater range of string elasticity between the centre and off centre shots than does a smaller racket which has a smaller range of elasticity in the string bed. I think that you therefore notice off centre shots more with a larger head.

Principle 3 : Leverage.

A larger head simply has more leverage for creating torsion. Try using a screwdriver with a handle with a diameter of 2 cm vs a screwdriver with a handle of 6 cm. Which gives you the more leverage to turn the screw ? Get what I mean ?

Other factors which can affect twisting include the fact that larger head rackets are usually ( not always ) flexier than smaller head rackets because of principle 1 above.

My $.02

BLiND
04-06-2006, 03:41 AM
I agree with what everyone is saying, but I also want to add, that string pattern effect stability.

E.g. I use to use Head Prestige... I changed to POG MP (93"), and found that while it was plenty heavy, and had a fairly high swingweight, it was nowhere near as stable as other racquets... simply because it has 14x16... the more strings the more stable.

just my 2p worth

babolat0821
04-08-2006, 12:55 PM
Would I be able to tell a big difference when going from a pure drive OS to standard pure drive?

CornNutz
04-08-2006, 06:23 PM
Well my friend has a pure drive OS and i cannot stand that racquet. There is quite a difference the os is way more powerful and makes funny noises lol. If your decent the switch wont be bad but you will notice the difference. Also I was noticing today that larget headsizes are retarted im currently trying to nsix-1 and it feels so much more solid then my purestorm mp. This could either be from the weight difference or the headsize difference but whatever it is it feels great. My pure storm makes funny noises when i hit a little under the sweetspot and people ask me if my racket is retarted lol.