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View Full Version : Inherent "crispness" in frames


louis netman
04-10-2006, 07:41 PM
I have a pile of rackets that were all strung with the same gut hybrid at 55# tension. Most of them started out feeling "crisp" and then lost their crispness as the strings seemed to deaden, some much more rapidly than others. However, one frame seemed to maintain the "crisp" feel throughout the life of the stringjob, the Wilson Tour 95. The composition of this frame is graphite & kevlar, similar to a few other frames that were observed during this somewhat long-term study of over twenty, 11+ ounce (unstrung) frames.…The other graphite/kevlar frames in the study did not exhibit the same characteristics as the Tour 95… Does anyone have an explanation for this phenomenon?

Zverev
04-10-2006, 08:18 PM
What is definition of "crisp"?
Does "crisp" mean stiff?

louis netman
04-10-2006, 08:25 PM
What is definition of "crisp"?
Does "crisp" mean stiff?

Crisp does not necessarily mean stiff. It would be safe to say that it's the opposite of "mushy." It is a sensation that can not be totally described in words. In addition, "crisp" feel typically has an accompanying audible component that is equally appealing. All frames in the study were RDC 65 or less. The Wilson Tour 95 is rated at RDC 62...

AAAA
04-10-2006, 08:36 PM
Fried in fat?

Zverev
04-10-2006, 08:56 PM
Crisp does not necessarily mean stiff. It would be safe to say that it's the opposite of "mushy." It is a sensation that can not be totally described in words. In addition, "crisp" feel typically has an accompanying audible component that is equally appealing. All frames in the study were RDC 65 or less. The Wilson Tour 95 is rated at RDC 62...
Yes, it is quite difficult, because it's very subjective as it's a part of famous "feel" thing. I am just trying to understand.
It must be possible to translate it into some physical properties though,
vibrations, shock, etc....

Final_Match_Point
04-10-2006, 10:09 PM
Crisp is diffent for each person. Depending on your arm length, muscles, fingers, the crisp that you fell can all be different. Think of biting into an apple. It has the nice crisp crunch, followed by a sweet juice. I tend to define crisp with a slightly stiffer racquet. I.E. Stiff racquet hit in the sweet spot that produces a solid clean feel, but still has the exact amount of vibration your body expects

louis netman
04-10-2006, 10:40 PM
Crisp is diffent for each person. Depending on your arm length, muscles, fingers, the crisp that you fell can all be different. Think of biting into an apple. It has the nice crisp crunch, followed by a sweet juice. I tend to define crisp with a slightly stiffer racquet. I.E. Stiff racquet hit in the sweet spot that produces a solid clean feel, but still has the exact amount of vibration your body expects

Everyone who has experienced many apples can tell a good apple from an average one. Regardless of mouth strength, esophageal muscle length, juiciness, sweeteness, or any other attributes that define a good apple, it MUST be crisp if it is to be perceived as good...Likewise anyone who has experienced many frames may differentiate a crisp frame from one that is mushier, not intending to imply that crisp is better, however...

Anyone know why frames are crisper than others? What frames would you consider to be "crisp?"

byealmeens
04-11-2006, 05:40 AM
"Inherent crispness" is found in frames with the right balance of properties. I feel it comes from a combination of frame stiffness, stringbed stiffness, and frame construction. I don't, however, think this can be clearly defined to the point where we can say, RDC 62 & 16X19 & graphite/kevlar 11.5oz+ frames will always feel crisp. There are just too many variables. These days, racquet construction is so complex with all the new technology that it's impossible to guess how they will perform.

Ripper
04-11-2006, 08:38 AM
I have a pile of rackets that were all strung with the same gut hybrid at 55# tension. Most of them started out feeling "crisp" and then lost their crispness as the strings seemed to deaden, some much more rapidly than others. However, one frame seemed to maintain the "crisp" feel throughout the life of the stringjob, the Wilson Tour 95. The composition of this frame is graphite & kevlar, similar to a few other frames that were observed during this somewhat long-term study of over twenty, 11+ ounce (unstrung) frames.…The other graphite/kevlar frames in the study did not exhibit the same characteristics as the Tour 95… Does anyone have an explanation for this phenomenon?

Do you keep a log of how many hours of play you put into each frame? This is very important in determining stuff like this. However, assuming that you have played with all of them for, more or less, the same amount of time, I guess there are frames that are harder on strings than others. For example, strings on frames with larger heads tend to get more of a work out. String patterns have a lot to do, too, with what you're describing. Maybe, even, stiffness is factor.

louis netman
04-11-2006, 11:00 AM
Do you keep a log of how many hours of play you put into each frame?

Part of the experimental method, Ripper. For objectivity, on the buttcap of each frame is a tiny slate used for logging purposes. For subjective nuances, a tiny, condensor microphone (activated by motion) records sounds, profanities, etc. that are uttered by the player during use... ;-)

louis netman
04-11-2006, 11:05 AM
Anyone know why frames are crisper than others? What frames would you consider to be "crisp?"

Seems it's difficult to trace the reason for the phenomenon. So, let's see if there are any commonalities between other frames that are deemed "crisp." What other frames do you think are crisp? Let's keep them narrowed to 11 oz and over, 93" and above headsize (the same characteristics used in the study)...

cabernetjunkie
04-11-2006, 11:06 AM
I know the crisp you are talking about. It is the same crisp found in the mw 200g.

louis netman
04-11-2006, 10:20 PM
I know the crisp you are talking about. It is the same crisp found in the mw 200g.

Hmmm...another graphite/kevlar frame...

baconburgerdog
04-23-2006, 11:58 AM
louisnetman:

In light of the fact that I just bought this amazing racquet off of you, I had to throw my two cents in. Having been able to get a few good hitting sessions in, I've noticed the intangible "crispness" you've tried to articulate. It appears that we aren't alone. This is an excerpt from the review of the PS Tour 95 in the TW archives:

"...One benefit is a bit more pop on groundies (as well as other strokes). The Pro Staff Tour 95 is a bit stiffer, translating into a crisper feel..."

I believe a lot has to do with the more rounded beam (vs. straight boxy) but still retaining same conventional width (the wide bodies go too far in the stiffness direction). No doubt, the graphite/kevlar/carbon mixture contributes to the crisp feel as well.

P.S. I just bought another one!

louis netman
04-23-2006, 02:40 PM
louisnetman:

In light of the fact that I just bought this amazing racquet off of you, I had to throw my two cents in. Having been able to get a few good hitting sessions in, I've noticed the intangible "crispness" you've tried to articulate. It appears that we aren't alone. This is an excerpt from the review of the PS Tour 95 in the TW archives:

"...One benefit is a bit more pop on groundies (as well as other strokes). The Pro Staff Tour 95 is a bit stiffer, translating into a crisper feel..."

I believe a lot has to do with the more rounded beam (vs. straight boxy) but still retaining same conventional width (the wide bodies go too far in the stiffness direction). No doubt, the graphite/kevlar/carbon mixture contributes to the crisp feel as well.

P.S. I just bought another one!

Glad to hear you like it! That frame has many positive attributes: 1) crisp and flexy at the same time no matter how low your tension or how dead the strings are, & comfortable too, 2) very customizable, 3) very open pattern for a 95" (more open than many 98s & 100s), 4) Wilson grip shape, 5) thin, 20mm beam, 6) nice head shape, not too oval (like Volkl), not too round (like Prince).....

texcoug
04-23-2006, 03:34 PM
My 2 cents:

RDS 003: not crisp or mushy, just blah;

Diablo Tour Mid: crispy crisp;

Bab PCZ 360 : coco crisp;

03 White: crisp less some muted feel (not as much as RDS 003);

03 Red: my preferred crisp (looking for a lower-powered version -- 03 White was not it);

FXP Radical Team: coco mush (the result of pooring milk on coco krispies and waiting for more than 5 minutes to eat -- seriously, love the thinner beam and flex (with added fxp tech) but it was too much -- it was nothing at the net but mush;

iRadical O/S: somewhat crisp (more akin to a Larry David "eh")

I like a crisp feel but also some level of cupping too. I play too much doubles to want a squish-meister that you can rip fhs with (Radical Team). I am demoing the Volkl Cat 8 and Wilson nPro Open this week. We'll see. I am a little nervous about the 26 mm straight beam on the Wilson, but its review was amazing.

louis netman
04-23-2006, 03:42 PM
My 2 cents:

RDS 003: not crisp or mushy, just blah;

Diablo Tour Mid: crispy crisp;

Bab PCZ 360 : coco crisp;

03 White: crisp less some muted feel (not as much as RDS 003);

03 Red: my preferred crisp (looking for a lower-powered version -- 03 White was not it);

FXP Radical Team: coco mush (the result of pooring milk on coco krispies and waiting for more than 5 minutes to eat -- seriously, love the thinner beam and flex (with added fxp tech) but it was too much -- it was nothing at the net but mush;

iRadical O/S: somewhat crisp (more akin to a Larry David "eh")

I like a crisp feel but also some level of cupping too. I play too much doubles to want a squish-meister that you can rip fhs with (Radical Team). I am demoing the Volkl Cat 8 and Wilson nPro Open this week. We'll see. I am a little nervous about the 26 mm straight beam on the Wilson, but its review was amazing.

I think you're on to something here. Can you devise a scale for us using levels (minutes) of milk saturation in Cocoa Crispies?