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TennsDog
06-29-2004, 06:01 PM
I am stringing hybrid on my 300G so, obviously, I use a starting knot. The problem is that the grommet where I tie the starting knot is an enlarged hole so the starting knot gets pulled half way through the grommet when I tighten it. I am wondering if there is any other kind of starting knot that is perhaps bulkier than the traditional one (found on Silent Partner website) that will not slip through my grommet hole? Also, just kind of a personal thing, I don't like the fact that the string sticks straight out into the string bed, not sure there is anything that can be done about that, though.

David Pavlich
06-29-2004, 07:54 PM
I use the starting knot from the USRSA manual. I don't know if it's the same as the SP knot, but it works for me. I also hold on to the tag end of the string with a starting clamp when tensioning for a little more margin of safety.

You could also try sticking a short piece of string through the first loop of your knot to add a little bulk to your knot. When you finish tensioning, you can trim it a bit so that it isn't sticking out.

I have a similar problem with some of the QV1 mp frames. The head tie off grommets seem to be soft and becomes expanded. I do one half hitch then I do a second half hitch with the tag end through the second loop a second time to bulk up the knot. I'm sure that knot has a name, but it eludes me.

David

paintjob
06-29-2004, 08:14 PM
A way to avoid this problem is to start you crosses without using a starting knot. Weave your first two crosses and leave enough slack hanging on the outside of the frame to tie a knot where you would normally tie your starting knot. Instead of doing a starting knot use your starting clamp on the outside of the frame. Tension the first cross. The starting clamp will hold the cross tension. Work your way down about 4 crosses or so. Then clamp the first cross from the inside of the frame to keep the tension of the first cross and release the starting clamp and tie your regular knots. Now release the clamp holding the tension for the first cross. Now you should have one clamp on your crosses where you stopped and you can continue with your string job. Hope this helps, it helped me with my friends 300g where i had same problem.

TennsDog
06-29-2004, 08:18 PM
Thanks for the tips. I'll see if trying to avoid the starting knot altogether will work.

Jerry Seinfeld
06-30-2004, 07:20 AM
Just use a third loop on your starting knot. I believe the knot you refer to has two loops, just add a third and this should solve your problem.

coachrick
06-30-2004, 08:22 AM
Jerry's triple-half-hitch works fine for me. I use it for 18/19ga strings regularly.

Gaines Hillix
06-30-2004, 10:42 AM
paintjob, your technique is good for avoiding using a starting knot, but a normal tie-off knot has even less bulk than the standard starting knot and may slip into an over enlarged grommet hole, which is what the original poster is trying to avoid. A triple half hitch or a standard starting knot with a 3rd loop added would be preferable.

jayserinos99
06-30-2004, 10:44 AM
Does anyone have any access to pictures of these knots?

TennsDog
06-30-2004, 01:55 PM
Gaines, I understand what you mean, but actually one of my double half-hitch tie-offs is on an enlarged hole and I have no problem with slipping because of the angle. I think I will try that to avoid the starting knot. Also, how does adding a third loop make it bulkier, won't it just make the knot longer and just extend further into the string bed?

coachrick
06-30-2004, 03:19 PM
Depending on the string, the third half-hitch will create a bulkier and longer knot. With the 18/19ga Kev blends, enough extra bulk is formed and the knot is considerably thicker. With polys, this might not be the case since they don't tend to scrunch when tied. In the old days, one method of knot-artistry included a piece of string inserted into the knot and trimmed after cinching up.

Steve Huff
06-30-2004, 03:24 PM
I wouldn't avoid using a starting knot. That's one more place you'll lose tension. I do a lot of hybrids. For a starting knot, I use a double half hitch with the loose end inserted back through the 2 loops, from the outside of the knot toward the frame. Like David, I hold the loose end (pull it tight) as I am tensioning the string.

jjvarona
06-30-2004, 03:48 PM
I also hybrid my strings and I use an 18ga. The 3rd loop definitely adds more bulk.