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jamauss
05-19-2006, 12:45 PM
In your opinion, which players have/had the most efficient service motions? Here's some I've come up with:

1. Federer
2. Ljubicic
3. Ivanisevic
4. Roddick?

Polaris
05-19-2006, 12:49 PM
Among those four, I like Federer's and Ivanisevic's.

But I also like Safin's. He can deliver a bomb in a rather casual way.

Serve_n_volley
05-19-2006, 12:53 PM
I think technically, Federer has the most effiecient serve motion because he is so relaxed and really just lets his racquet drop, but i like roddick's mation a lot more, and I think it's simple, yet explosive.

Andres
05-19-2006, 12:54 PM
Ivanisevic. Total weight transfer into the shot, and yet, so relaxed and smooth. Such a skinny guy, and he can blew a bomb whenever he wanted.

Simply marvelous :)

Dan007
05-19-2006, 12:56 PM
*Roddick's-explosive, super fast
*Federer's very good placement
*Safin's he can bomb some serves also

jamauss
05-19-2006, 12:56 PM
I agree - Safin has a pretty good serve - but it seems like he really has to arch his back.

!Tym
05-19-2006, 01:04 PM
NO ONE comes close to Bruguera in this category...too bad his serve was at best average.

He basically just tossed the ball up, took almost no backswing or knee bend, kind of just put his racket up and basically snapped his wrist.

If you're talking about an efficient serve that required very little effort, but that was actually effective, look no further than Michael Stich.

There is NO comparison to anyone else who also had an effective serve. Among devastating serves, Stich basically expended NO energy whatsoever on it, was like silk, VERY relaxed, almost as if he had no tension in his body whatsoever and his entire body was a single, loose, gummy, pliable, and flexible limb all moving in perfect sync and harmony...of course, give this same motion to a short guy like Chang and it'd suck. Stich's height and shoulder flexibility definitely allowed this service motion to be much more effective than it normally would for most more normally sized players.

Lindros13
05-19-2006, 01:13 PM
Fed is so relaxed in his serve.

LordRaceR
05-19-2006, 01:18 PM
Roddick, Federer, Safin, Scud

WayneCM
05-19-2006, 01:20 PM
Roddick, karlovic(Mr ace), Safin and Coria:mrgreen:

dmastous
05-19-2006, 01:27 PM
Among those four, I like Federer's and Ivanisevic's.

But I also like Safin's. He can deliver a bomb in a rather casual way.
If you like Ivanisevic's than you must like Lubicic's as well since they are very simialar motions.
I always liked Mark Woodford's motion. If you are talking about easy motions I would say he and Mecir's were the most casual, easy motions I've seen.
Federer's is as casual as you can get while still putting effort into the serve.

LeftyServe
05-19-2006, 01:28 PM
How about Gonzalez? Compact, powerful, no wasted movement.

HellBunni
05-19-2006, 01:32 PM
Roddick, karlovic(Mr ace), Safin and Coria:mrgreen:

Coria????

hoosierbr
05-19-2006, 02:05 PM
Richard Krajicek has a very smooth motion. Of course it helps that he's very tall and powerful, like Karlovic.

Polaris
05-19-2006, 02:08 PM
If you like Ivanisevic's than you must like Lubicic's as well since they are very simialar motions.

If I recall correctly, Ivanisevic didn't have as much ceremony in the beginning as Ljubicic does. Besides, Goran is left-handed and that just adds a dollop of beauty for a reason I haven't been able to figure out. I mean, a left-handed cricketer with a decent style looks rather graceful without even trying to be. Something similar holds for Goran, and also for Mark Woodforde. It is hard for a left-hander to appear ugly (to my biased asthetic sense, even though I am right-handed), but Nadal sometimes manages that with his extreme grips, grunts and curious attire. ;) .

But yes, Ljub's serve is awesome as well and so is Stich's, as Tym pointed out. No comments about Bruguera though.:mrgreen:

dmastous
05-19-2006, 02:13 PM
If I recall correctly, Ivanisevic didn't have as much ceremony in the beginning as Ljubicic does. Besides, Goran is left-handed and that just adds a dollop of beauty for a reason I haven't been able to figure out. I mean, a left-handed cricketer with a decent style looks rather graceful without even trying to be. Something similar holds for Goran, and indeed for Woodforde. It is hard for a left-hander to appear ugly (to my biased asthetic sense, even though I am right-handed), but Nadal sometimes manages that with his extreme grips, grunts and curious attire.

Lubicic is an acknowleged fan of Ivanisovic. He uses essentially the same set-up and rocks back the same way. He doesn't quick serve like Ivo. His is more classical, but he does hit it earlier than many.
Maybe Nadal grunts because he's not a natural lefty. He was convinced to play left-handed to get a spin advantage.

unjugon
05-19-2006, 02:14 PM
I always thought Hewitt´s serve was pretty fast, while he didn´t seem to put much effort into it. Particularly his first serve.

WayneCM
05-19-2006, 02:28 PM
Coria????
was a joke hombre thus the :mrgreen:

Simon Cowell
05-19-2006, 02:35 PM
How about Gonzalez? Compact, powerful, no wasted movement.

Agreed. I like Gonzalez's serve. No fancy crap, and it gets the job done.

Bogie
05-19-2006, 02:41 PM
most efficient currently? nadal for sure, hes often in the 80's first serve percentage, and he actually gets very good placement and its difficult to handle a lefty serve like his

most powerful? probably still roddick

biggest/best? karlovic

MTChong
05-19-2006, 02:45 PM
most efficient currently? nadal for sure, hes often in the 80's first serve percentage, and he actually gets very good placement and its difficult to handle a lefty serve like his

most powerful? probably still roddick

biggest/best? karlovic

I don't think they're referring to most efficient serve statistically speaking, but motion wise.

Federer's always looks simple and clean.

rfederer32291
05-19-2006, 03:03 PM
Federer's by far. His motion is flawless, and he makes it look very simple and easy.

str33t
05-19-2006, 03:05 PM
sampras's serve was sweet

fastdunn
05-19-2006, 03:12 PM
Federer's always looks simple and clean.

I agree Federer's motion simple and clean, gearing for accuracy.

But I don't find his motion particularly smooth or efficent.
It's kinda no surpise that Federer has been struggling with his serves
for last year or so.

There are handsfull of players in 90's who had much, mcuh better
serves/motions with silky smoothness, extrem efficiency: Krajicek, Stich,
Sampras, Ivanesvich,....

ACE of Hearts
05-19-2006, 03:15 PM
Roger's serving motion is fine,the problem is that he doesnt have accuracy when it comes to aces, like Sampras.Very similiar but Roger has more of a open stance.

Bottle Rocket
05-19-2006, 03:27 PM
Roddick's is obviously very efficient... As far as I know, nobody else has consistantly hit serves as hard as Roddick and definitely not for as long as him. He has something figured out that nobody else has gotten yet. Efficiency has nothing to do with placement. That is not to say that Roddick has bad placement, but he doesn't seem to always need it. He get's a ton of points off his serve because nobody it's hard to get a decent return, it works for him.

superman1
05-19-2006, 04:59 PM
1. Sampras
2. Roddick

Roddick's serve is not efficient for most people, takes a lot of effort, but him it's easy and comes naturally.

Federer's serve is above average but nowhere near great. I remember him having a much better serve, he could hit aces whenever he pleased, but it's died down a bit.

bribeiro
05-19-2006, 05:02 PM
tommy haas'

slice bh compliment
05-19-2006, 05:30 PM
NO ONE comes close to ...
...
...
...
Michael Stich.

...There is NO comparison....

Done.

Effortless. Graceful. Powerful. Well-placed. Efficient as can be.

Honorable mention: Borg, Johnny Mac and Nasty.

Current version: Roger Federer on a good day after a bottle of wine. Maybe.

Oh, and Evonne Goolagong gets the nod on the women's side. Honorable mention: Mandlikova and Navratilova.

tennisfreak412
05-19-2006, 05:33 PM
I think Roddick has a really clean and efficient motion. Very compact, yet very powerful.

snoflewis
05-19-2006, 05:33 PM
i think we're forgetting joachim johansson.

remember, he's been aiming to break the service record.

armand
05-19-2006, 05:53 PM
To me, when I look at Roddick, his serve is anything but efficient. Efficiency is getting the most out of the least. He spends great energy on his serve yet he doesn't get nearly as many aces as other big servers or even Federer.

For the exact reason his serve motion is short and compact is the reason his serve isn't efficient.

If you see guys like Stich, Krajicek, Sampras etc you'll see great serves that are as powerful as Roddicks(juiced radar guns remember) with way more accuracy. Stich, Sampras etc use long natural motions that are aided by momentum, gravity and biomechanics.

What's Roddicks age? 23, 24? He's already way slower than he was when he was #1. Testament to his poor form.

chiru
05-19-2006, 06:10 PM
so funny that only a hand ful of ppl have mentioned sampras and goran and those guys, and everyone is drooling after fed, as per usual.

snoflewis
05-19-2006, 06:23 PM
so funny that only a hand ful of ppl have mentioned sampras and goran and those guys, and everyone is drooling after fed, as per usual.

yeah, federer's serve is nothing compared to sampras'

ClemsonTennis9
05-19-2006, 07:11 PM
jay berger

ACE of Hearts
05-19-2006, 07:25 PM
Sampras is retired.Sampras had accuracy, no doubt.I agreed with Roddick's serve, whats so special about it?I rather have Federer's serve which has perfect disguise.I think Roger can work on that serve but i am sure he thinks its well enough.

Tennis_Goodness
05-19-2006, 07:27 PM
Federer has one of the most pretty serves in the history of the game and it is very very good, Sampras probablly had the best serve ever but I actually think Federer's looks a little more pretty!

lucky leprechaun
05-19-2006, 08:20 PM
My vote is for ivanisevic. For the amount of energy it looks like he puts into a serve, he seems to get the maximum results. So he's most efficient looking to me.

Andres
05-19-2006, 09:18 PM
Lubicic is an acknowleged fan of Ivanisovic. He uses essentially the same set-up and rocks back the same way. He doesn't quick serve like Ivo. His is more classical, but he does hit it earlier than many.
Maybe Nadal grunts because he's not a natural lefty. He was convinced to play left-handed to get a spin advantage.
No, if you see closely, the set up, and the weight transfer is totally different. And Goran's motion was quicker, as someone said, without that ceremony. He bounced, stayed in a "crouch" position, looked at the opponent, toss, and BOOM!! quick release and thunderous delivery :mrgreen:

One of the most beautiful serves I've ever seen.

mileslong
05-19-2006, 09:19 PM
again trolls. the title of the post was the most efficient, if you dont think feds isnt efficient then youre basically a troll or no nothing about tennis... his motion is classic, smooth and effortless. its how you would teach your kid to serve...

Andres
05-19-2006, 09:22 PM
again trolls. the title of the post was the most efficient, if you dont think feds isnt efficient then youre basically a troll or no nothing about tennis... his motion is classic, smooth and effortless. its how you would teach your kid to serve...
Efficient = Looks, smooth, and results.

Results are A MUST on being efficient.

I'm not saying Federer doesn't use this serve as a weapon, which he does, but his serve is a smaller part of his game, than Krajicek or Ivanisevic, and certainly not that dangerous. Ergo, Richard and Goran's serve were more efficient ;)

hyperwarrior
05-19-2006, 10:19 PM
Sampras, Federer, Roddick.

I trade my serve for one of them anytimes. Well, I'll understand if they refuse my ****** serve!!!

migjam
05-19-2006, 10:24 PM
I've got to go with Max Mirnyi. Very smooth!

superman1
05-20-2006, 12:43 AM
Sampras had the most smooth and fluid serve I've ever seen and I think the best serve of all time. The fact that his serve still holds up after not playing at all for 4 years just shows how natural it was for him.

Federer should not be getting so much attention for his serve. It's good, but he'll be the first one to say that there are guys out there with better serves.

And Roddick's serve IS great and there's not a single pro that would disagree with that. If you say his serve isn't that great, then his ground game MUST be great, because he's been at the top of tennis for a while. It's not efficient for most people, requires a lot of energy, but he's a twitchy kind of guy and I think it's natural for him.

lucky leprechaun
05-20-2006, 01:18 AM
Roddick's 1st serve is the best. I might get flamed, but it's also the best serve of all time (yes better than sampras's first serve). I definitely do not think its anywhere near pete's efficiency level. Roddick's is one of maximum exertion and maximum results. In other words he swings real hard and that's about it.

munk3y
05-20-2006, 01:27 AM
I've got to go with Max Mirnyi. Very smooth!

max's serve is one of the most ugliest serves of all time. His service preparation makes me laugh all the time lol. But i cant comment on the efficiency of it because I dont really study it... i can't help laughing at it.

Defcon
05-20-2006, 01:49 AM
Roddick's 1st serve is the best. I might get flamed, but it's also the best serve of all time (yes better than sampras's first serve)

And how exactly is it better? Probably a few mph faster, but in every other area - spin, accuracy, disguise, ability to hit aces at will - its miles ahead. As for speed, when you take into account the difference in radar guns, its not that much. Sampras/Goran regulary hit 130's.

btw I'm suprised no one has mentioned Mark 'The Scud' Phillipousis! The man had a damn good serve.

Andres
05-20-2006, 08:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R7q79vJ0Vg&search=Ivanisevic

A little clip from the Wimbledon 2001 final. Goran wasn't at his best serving stage (which is more around 1992-1995), but he threw down 30 aces per match that tourney.

A vid worth watching ;)

migjam
05-20-2006, 08:14 AM
max's serve is one of the most ugliest serves of all time. His service preparation makes me laugh all the time lol. But i cant comment on the efficiency of it because I dont really study it... i can't help laughing at it.

Are you kidding me? Roddick has to have one of the ugliest serves of all time.

unjugon
05-20-2006, 08:19 AM
Noone else thinks Hewitt´s serve is pretty efficient?

Lindros13
05-20-2006, 10:31 AM
I would have to agree that Roddick's serve is one of the ugliest around. How could you possibly say it is not quirky?

MTChong
05-20-2006, 12:01 PM
I agree Federer's motion simple and clean, gearing for accuracy.

But I don't find his motion particularly smooth or efficent.
It's kinda no surpise that Federer has been struggling with his serves
for last year or so.

There are handsfull of players in 90's who had much, mcuh better
serves/motions with silky smoothness, extrem efficiency: Krajicek, Stich,
Sampras, Ivanesvich,....

Haha, you may be right there fastdunn, but I haven't gotten a chance to watch lots of the older players =(... I'm only 17 now, but I do know that Sampras' serve was awesome - have some videos of him.

Who would you pick for current pros?

Galactus
05-20-2006, 12:29 PM
Efficiency-wise: Federer.
Look at the variation he gets: anything from 115-128mph out-wide/down-the-T aces or heavy kick-serves...all with minimum effort.

Other than that, I'd say Safin is there for pace and variation with an efficient action.

jackofromalsager
05-20-2006, 12:35 PM
i like nadals servase action because he leans forward so much even tho his serve aint that powerful

marcus_alsager
05-20-2006, 12:37 PM
roddick looks weird cus he has no backswing :s

vkartikv
05-20-2006, 12:38 PM
Most complicated - Edberg. Most effective: Greg Rusedski. Roddick??? He seems like he is about to start a steam engine before he serves!!

Saito
05-20-2006, 12:56 PM
Depends on your definition of efficient (as different people find different things efficient...). I find Roddick's serve form to be the most efficient in that list.

BaseLineBash
05-20-2006, 01:23 PM
Noone else thinks Hewitt´s serve is pretty efficient?
He double faults too much, not enough first serves in.

arosen
05-20-2006, 01:59 PM
How about Gonzalez? Compact, powerful, no wasted movement.

He doesn't qualify IMHO because he can hardly get it in. He can put some nice pace on the ball.

bdawg
05-20-2006, 02:27 PM
I thought Seng Shalken had a simple and efficient serve.

Power_Player
05-20-2006, 02:28 PM
Lindsay Davenport.

easternforehand
05-20-2006, 04:42 PM
Gotta go with Sampras. Just seemed to get so much pace and spin on his serve without looking like he was swinging that hard or "arming" the ball at all. Got every bit of his body into it.

naturalgut
05-20-2006, 04:49 PM
Definitely Sampras. I was watching the US Open final '02 and his serving was incredible

prestige18
05-20-2006, 05:37 PM
i cant believe no one has mentioned james blake! his motion looks completely effortless. even the look on his face is effortless. as an added bonus he has a huge serve. i agree with federer being efficient as well but he gets a lot of back arc which to me looks like he is putting a lot of energy into it. james does a simple toss bends his knees a little then just explodes with power that comes from what appears to be no where.
james blake = most efficient and effortless serve

theace21
05-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Sampras
Edberg
Smooth and effortless...

Hewitt rulez
05-20-2006, 05:52 PM
My favorite is Safin.
He can hit a bomb down the middle and can kick it outwide.

flymeng
05-20-2006, 07:28 PM
According to Fred Stolle and Cliff Drysdale, Michael Stich has the most efficient and beautiful service motion. I agree too. Stich is very fluid. His serve has a lot of pace. BTW, Stich has a winning record against Sampras.

Serve and volley players have a more natural follow through motion. They lean their bodies forward to get the extra pace and move forward to the net.

Whereas the baseliners who have to step back on or behind the baseline after leaning forward during the service motion. It is abrupt.

slice bh compliment
05-21-2006, 03:38 AM
Definitely Stich. Krajicek and Goran served beautifully. You could add Leconte to that list, even though his rhythm was a little funny.

But Stich, yeah, I always admired his entire arsenal more than any other. Great strokes. What a serve. What a backhand pass. Nice volleyer, too. I would love to play that smoothly. The Force is strong with this one. But his career was pocked with so many tough losses.

Won Wimbledon somehow over Becker in 1991. Gold medal dubs with Becker in 1992. Won an ATP World Championship/Masters over Pete. Lost to some unseeded guy with a mullet in the 1994 US Open final. Lost to a rock solid Kafelnikov in the 1996 Roland Garros final. Just missed another shot at a Wimbledon final in 1997, going down to a game Pioline in a brilliant semi.

Imagine Nadal, Connors, Chang or Muster inside the nervous system of Michael Stich? Then add the personality of say, half Guga/half Rafter? Kind of a joyful, triumphant Johnny Mac! Pie in the sky...but what a world-beater that guy would be.

Anyway, back to the efficient serve discussion, I believe a lot of coaches have studied his mechanics and come up with nothing. Hahahah:p

Galactus
05-21-2006, 05:49 AM
Roscoe Tanner's was pretty efficient in it's simplicity: toss the ball and hit it at it's peak before it dropped. Hardly any back-arch or knee-bend,
This, combined with his racquet-head-speed enabled him to serve between 120-130mph back in the 1970's...

Galactus
05-21-2006, 06:01 AM
To me, when I look at Roddick, his serve is anything but efficient. Efficiency is getting the most out of the least. He spends great energy on his serve yet he doesn't get nearly as many aces as other big servers or even Federer.

For the exact reason his serve motion is short and compact is the reason his serve isn't efficient.

If you see guys like Stich, Krajicek, Sampras etc you'll see great serves that are as powerful as Roddicks(juiced radar guns remember) with way more accuracy. Stich, Sampras etc use long natural motions that are aided by momentum, gravity and biomechanics.

What's Roddicks age? 23, 24? He's already way slower than he was when he was #1. Testament to his poor form.
In comparison, with probably two-thirds as much effort, Marat Safin's serve is heavier and consequently, harder to return. Federer said as much following his Aus Open '05 semi-final defeat.

Check out the number of aces Roddick gets against Federer - prime example for 2005:
* Safin got 99 aces in the Austalian Open and 16 of those were in the semi-final vs. Federer
* Roddick got 104 aces at Wimbledon and only 6 were in the final vs. Federer
6 aces....on the fastest surface of any tournament....go figure.
Roddick also serves way more double-faults than Safin.

Added to that, Sampras stated that Roddick always looks like serving is hard work for him as opposed to the ease and efficiency which other big-servers have...

migjam
05-21-2006, 06:30 AM
Roscoe Tanner's was pretty efficient in it's simplicity: toss the ball and hit it at it's peak before it dropped. Hardly any back-arch or knee-bend,
This, combined with his racquet-head-speed enabled him to serve between 120-130mph back in the 1970's...

Actually, Tanner hit it on the rise with a very short toss.

Galactus
05-21-2006, 06:33 AM
Actually, Tanner hit it on the rise with a very short toss.
There you go - even better.

austrian_pro
05-21-2006, 07:02 AM
Roger Federer

Andres
05-21-2006, 09:05 AM
6 aces....on the fastest surface of any tournament....go figure. Roddick also serves way more double-faults than Safin
Maybe he DOES double fault more than Safin, but "WAY MORE" ???
I don't think so. Ljubicic, Karlovic, Safin and Roddick are the best in the tour in the Aces-Double Faults ratio ;)

rod99
05-21-2006, 09:28 AM
Stich had the smoothest motion. no one else is even close.

slack hack
05-21-2006, 01:07 PM
Yeah, Stich by a mile. Doesn't he hold the record for career highest first serve percentage?

fastdunn
05-21-2006, 02:14 PM
Gotta go with Sampras. Just seemed to get so much pace and spin on his serve without looking like he was swinging that hard or "arming" the ball at all. Got every bit of his body into it.


This is very true. In terms of bio-mechanical efficiency, Sampras'
is ultimate ideal, IMHO.

He was not as tall as Krajicek or Stich but he uses every muscle
and joints in maximal potential in perfect harmony: hip-flex, shoulder
rotation and pronation in extreme.

So that he can serve all day with least efforts.

http://rlbartell.home.comcast.net/oz/sampras.jpg