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scez
05-20-2006, 04:15 PM
I finally got some videos of my first and second serve today. They were not as good as usually because I havnt played in awhile because of injuries, the balls were dead, and my right arm killed. But thats enough with the excuses, here is the videos :p

First Serve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIYXNy0Zqes
(not as good)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTdf_rKjb6g

Second Serve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qL55Sqp21Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heh6iFlE79c

Please give me some advice on what I can do to improve, one thing I already know that my tennis coach told tought me this week was to keep my racquet dipped until I am in the trophy position.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I probably foot faulted every serve in the videos. Good thing I beat KK to it.

x Southpaw x
05-20-2006, 04:19 PM
very nice... but um foot fault =P

Honestlybad
05-20-2006, 04:20 PM
You don't get down low enough on your knees on both first and second serve and you do not coil your body like a spring before exploding into the ball.

Try arching your back back on your second serve. It will have more spin and depth.

scez
05-20-2006, 04:26 PM
Is this not enough arch? http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9231/arch5wr.jpg

metsjets
05-20-2006, 04:29 PM
Bend Your Legs!

Honestlybad
05-20-2006, 04:31 PM
That looks good. That's a first serve right? Do this on your second as well and take your right shoulder farther back before hitting into the ball. When you look at the tour's top servers, they turn the upper part of their back copletely parallel to the net before hitting into the ball.

scez
05-20-2006, 04:34 PM
Thanks, for my first serve I am trying to work on using my legs more. Until a month ago I was doing those little second serves where I would just knock the ball over the net. Right now I am doing a pretty basic second serve that my coach taught me. Trying to concentrate on tossing the ball behind me and only turning my shoulders after hitting the ball. But soon I am going to have to use my legs a lot like you said to get some nice spin :D

jamauss
05-20-2006, 04:59 PM
No wonder your arm hurt - you're using way too much arm and hardly any hips/legs/body to propel yourself toward the ball. And keep your right foot planted and use it to push up into the ball instead of letting your left foot hold all your weight like that. Your footwork needs....work.

scez
05-20-2006, 05:03 PM
No wonder your arm hurt - you're using way too much arm and hardly any hips/legs/body to propel yourself toward the ball. And keep your right foot planted and use it to push up into the ball instead of letting your left foot hold all your weight like that. Your footwork needs....work.

Thx, but my arm hurt from basketball/groundstrokes :p I really need to work on my foot work, espesially if it is bad when I serve.

jamauss
05-20-2006, 05:19 PM
Do you stretch your arm before hitting groundies/serves? I'd stretch at least your biceps, triceps and the muscle that connects your upper chest to your arm, whatever that one is. I stretch it by hanging from a fench or something like that - a baseball pitcher would know what I'm talking about - that's where I first learned the stretch.

But anyway - as to your feet - you move them too much. During my service motion my feet stay put the entire time and only carry my weight back or forward and then leave the ground when I push/jump up to meet the ball. Watch your 1st serve vids again and go frame by frame looking at your feet to see what I mean.

scez
05-20-2006, 05:21 PM
Yea, I didnt stretch today before hitting which was pretty stupid. I also noticed that there is too much action in my legs. It seems I am not listening to my coach who told me to keep my feet closer together to stop that :p

scez
05-20-2006, 06:20 PM
Here is a video of my serve last summer when my coach was totaly re creating my strokes. I was using an abbreviated serve. Hopefully there has been a big difference since then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qy_0sB83cQ

snoflewis
05-20-2006, 07:49 PM
you don't have much shoulder rotation. especially in the abbreviated serve. your serving arm shouldnt be tangled up w/ your tossing arm.

Tezuka Kunimitsu
05-20-2006, 07:49 PM
you foot fault on the last serve, of first video

Bend more overall, and watch your feet maybe because you are going really fast.

I like second serve, but like I stated above. Bend more, more twist of the hip this could give you more power but you do have good placement.

I really like second serve, good job.
Hope some of this helps.

~Joe

Rickson
05-20-2006, 08:02 PM
You're using your left leg as a pogo stick instead of using both legs which would give you more power. Stop putting all the weight on your left leg then hopping up to serve. 2 legs = more power than 1 leg.

snoflewis
05-20-2006, 08:03 PM
You're using your left leg as a pogo stick instead of using both legs which would give you more power. Stop putting all the weight on your left leg then hopping up to serve. 2 legs = more power than 1 leg.

that's actually what i was thinking for myself. i noticed that im putting way more pressure on my left thigh on serves than right.

but scez, that's what it looks like for you. you're in the air way before you even hit the ball

scez
05-20-2006, 08:07 PM
You're using your left leg as a pogo stick instead of using both legs which would give you more power. Stop putting all the weight on your left leg then hopping up to serve. 2 legs = more power than 1 leg.

But I only have one leg, my right leg is an optical illusion, thanks to my friend David Blaine.

eLterrible
05-20-2006, 08:15 PM
You're using your left leg as a pogo stick instead of using both legs which would give you more power. Stop putting all the weight on your left leg then hopping up to serve. 2 legs = more power than 1 leg.

completely agree, that's what i noticed the most, you'll get more weight transfer with both legs.

mattm
05-21-2006, 05:59 AM
Its not just the fact that you are pushing off from one leg, its the timing of the leg push. Your legs don't contribute to the overall kenetic chain. The result is that you are not getting as much of your weight into the serve.

BeachTennis
05-21-2006, 06:21 AM
After the shoulder and hip and knee turn start thinking anout swing and using you legs like a big bull frog pushing out ward and up ward !

Keys to great serve

Grip and starting stance

unit turn of all the segments of the chain

the ball placement

the 90 degree leg flex

and the some racket head speed
and get

Froggy

http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/species/cuban.jpg

Bungalo Bill
05-21-2006, 08:38 AM
After the shoulder and hip and knee turn start thinking anout swing and using you legs like a big bull frog pushing out ward and up ward !

Yeah this is a very old tip that was used a long time ago. The problem with the tip is people started doing the "curtsy" and had power outage problems with their serve. If enough of these were done, a "bad habit" would develop.

This tip is way outdated and for those serious about develloping a powerful serve, you would be better off using the analogy from Pat Dougherty who is the true author of the Sonic Serve video. He is also way better than I on instructing the serve and most definitely or BeachTennis who now plays Beach Tennis because of his issues with the real sport of tennis.

Pat, put it in real easy to understand words, you're front side needs to resemble to pole of a pole vaulter. In other words, there is pressure along the front side that allows the body to catapult itself upwards and outwards.

You really dont have to think about bending your knees because if you do it right, your knees will naturally bend because they have to.

Energy is stored on the front side, the hitting arm is allowed to go into continuous motion while remaining relaxed and fluid. The hitting arm is preparing the shoulder to allow for a deep stretch once it gets into the "mythical" backscratch position.

As this is going on, the front side should reach its pressure point, this is when the front arm is still stretched up to the sky. Using that pressure or stretch, the tossing arm makes its way back into the body which eventually "puts a brake" on the shoulder rotation. This allows the loose fluid hitting arm to catapult, launch, fling, or rebound back up towards the ball. The rest is meeting the ball on time with an extended arm.

I wish Pat would still post here because his research and study on the serve is very good.

Roddick The Beast
05-21-2006, 08:24 PM
Haha, right midlife?

MTChong
05-21-2006, 09:07 PM
I briefly skimmed the thread so pardon me if these have already been stated

More shoulder turn

Feet and Legs - use them. Plant them, bend, and explode off them.

Toss more into the court.

35ft6
05-22-2006, 03:29 AM
You open up your shoulders too early. Your shoulders are almost squarely facing the net by the time you're halfway through your swing. Think of throwing a football or baseball, make your service motion more like that. Not to be mean, by right now your motion is almost the tennis equivalent of throwing "like a girl."

Also, you just sort of lazily walk into the court on your serve instead of exploding into the court.

Mr.Federer
05-22-2006, 06:26 AM
Scez, how long have you been playing tennis? I believe you should be more "sideways to the net" if you know what I mean. And plant your feet but that has been told many times already. For the second serve, if you want to create more topspin, my advice is "break" your wrist before you throw the ball in the air just a bit like Nadal.

scez
05-22-2006, 07:37 AM
I have always played a bit of tennis. Like I would play during the summer with friends, but I started playing a lot last December. I will try to get another video where I try to use my legs more and listen to what you guys say. What do you guys think my max speed was for my first serve?

chrisplchs
05-22-2006, 08:13 AM
probably mid 70s.. at best.

Bungalo Bill
05-22-2006, 08:32 AM
You open up your shoulders too early. Your shoulders are almost squarely facing the net by the time you're halfway through your swing. Think of throwing a football or baseball, make your service motion more like that. Not to be mean, by right now your motion is almost the tennis equivalent of throwing "like a girl."

Also, you just sort of lazily walk into the court on your serve instead of exploding into the court.

Yup, spoken from a man that knows how to coach.

Bungalo Bill
05-22-2006, 08:33 AM
probably mid 70s.. at best.

RIB-BET

JCo872
05-22-2006, 08:56 AM
Big improvement from last year to this year. Good job. I'll post more comments later and perhaps do a comparison for you with the pros. What I see here is the same thing I saw with another serve video just posted. The motion is way way WAY too quick. Check out how Johannson completes his toss before even taking the racket back:

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve_index.cfm

Pete does the exact same thing. Check out the link BB has posted with Pete's serve. Watch how he completes the toss first before everything else (even though the commentator in that clip says he takes the racket arm
and tossing arm up at the same time). I think the quick serve motion robs players of at least 20mph on the serve. It prevents the kinetic chain from properly developing over time. Goran is the only server I've ever seen who could effectively use a quick motion.

I agree with BB. The Sonic Serve video is the best thing I've ever seen on the serve. And I completely agree that the knee bend will happen on its own without effort if you use the pole vaulter motion.

Woodstock_Tennis
05-22-2006, 09:11 AM
First thing I notice is after you bend your knees a little you kind of take a skip into the court instead of an explosion, focus more on your legs and you'll be fine.

scez
05-29-2006, 04:52 PM
Thanks a lot for all the input guys. I have started concentrating on using my legs more and have gained a ton more power on my serve. I will try and get new videos up soon.

musicc
05-29-2006, 05:01 PM
Keep at it! At least its going it.