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unsung
05-22-2006, 07:27 PM
Any thoughts? I find it easier to control the ball when using an Eastern forehand grip than when using a continental grip. Especially for forehand volleys. The continental just feels a bit odd and I have to really turn my body sideways, unless I want to volley cross court.

What are the benefits of using Continental grip for volleying?

THANKS.:cool:

tnig469
05-22-2006, 07:31 PM
i find it easier to do overheads with a continental grip...

tennisfreak412
05-22-2006, 07:49 PM
eventually you'll be able to get more punch on your volleys. The time needed to switch from forehand to backhand side is virtually nil, and when you get even slightly proficient with the continental, you'll be able to put underspin on your volleys, hit drop volleys, stop volleys, etc.

vinouspleasure
05-22-2006, 07:52 PM
less time to change grips.

Bungalo Bill
05-22-2006, 08:36 PM
Any thoughts? I find it easier to control the ball when using an Eastern forehand grip than when using a continental grip. Especially for forehand volleys. The continental just feels a bit odd and I have to really turn my body sideways, unless I want to volley cross court.

What are the benefits of using Continental grip for volleying?

THANKS.:cool:

The continental IS the grip you want to be in. You want to move towards it as best you can.

The eastern grips are good volley grips inand of themselves. Meaning that when you volley a ball, they are grips you can penetrate the ball very well with.

For many people, the Easterns feel comfortable and for good reason. It places your wrist in a strong position more so then the Continental. That is why for many the volley feels very solid with an Eastern.

With that said, you can get very fast in switching grips. I alter my grip all the time but I dont go as far as an Eastern forehand and I wouldnt call it inbetween COntinental and Eastern as well. The heel of my palm moves over a bit.

The key to a fast grip change is keeping your hand relaxed on the handle in the resting position. Eventually or now, you want to move to the Continental because you can. It serves the best of all worlds and is easier to manage on a fast exchange.

I am one that does not have a pure continental for both volleys. It also depends on the ball, if a ball is coming in fast to slow, I could very well switch to an Eastern and pound the ball. I like the grip, it is solid, and I can stick the ball well. On a very fast ball or a very fast exchange I will volley in my waiting grip which is the Continental and alter if I can. My main grip is COntinental and depending on the situation I will go away from it to do something different with the ball.

damasta55
05-22-2006, 08:45 PM
i volley with a cont. grip and do 1bh with cont. grip, but for 2bh i use eastern

travlerajm
05-22-2006, 09:43 PM
There is a BIG reason why you won't find any ATP pros volleying with the Eastern forehand grip. With the eastern grip, it's not physically possible to volley with a fixed wrist - even if it seems like your wrist is firm, the impact of the ball on your strings will pivot your wrist backward. The only way to compensate for this is by adding some foreward wrist motion into the shot. The continental is very different, because the continental grip places the wrist at a very different angle in relation to the axis of rotation. The continental grip effectively locks your wrist in place, so that the ball impact does not force your wrist back, and so you do not need to use your wrist to control the depth of the volley.

What does this mean? It means that an eastern forehand volley grip works fairly well on balls that you are aiming downward into the court, because depth control is not an issue. But any ball that requires depth control will be a problem (which means maybe 75% of your volleys, or even higher if you play at a high level). Any time I see a doubles opponent playing with an eastern forehand volley grip, I immediately tell my partner to go for dippers at his feet, because that grip is at a big disadvantage any time the player is not in a position to hit downward on the volley.

I played with the eastern forehand grip all the way through high school, even though teaching pros constantly suggested I switch to continental. I finally relented and made the swtich. It wasn't easy, but after switching, my volleys are a LOT better than they would be if I had stuck with the eastern. And I wish that I would have listened and made the switch a lot earlier when my strokes were more malleable.

Bungalo Bill
05-23-2006, 05:46 AM
There is a BIG reason why you won't find any ATP pros volleying with the Eastern forehand grip. With the eastern grip, it's not physically possible to volley with a fixed wrist - even if it seems like your wrist is firm, the impact of the ball on your strings will pivot your wrist backward.

Well here we go again. THIS IS ABSOLTUELY FALSE! There are pros that volley and DO volley with the Eastern grips. The wrist position in the Easterns are strong enabling a player to volley corsscourt and DTL!

Pros do use the Eastern grip for volleys. I have already proven this.

The continental grip effectively locks your wrist in place, so that the ball impact does not force your wrist back, and so you do not need to use your wrist to control the depth of the volley.

NOT TRUE!!! The continental does not LOCK the wrist in anything! This is the major weakness of the Continental grip. At the Vic Braden Tennis College we did a study on this and it is hands down clear the the Easterns provide better wrist support and angle then the Continental.

All one has to do is visit their local tennis center and watch players using execessive wrist action in their volleys with the Continental grip.

What does this mean? It means that an eastern forehand volley grip works fairly well on balls that you are aiming downward into the court, because depth control is not an issue. But any ball that requires depth control will be a problem (which means maybe 75% of your volleys, or even higher if you play at a high level). Any time I see a doubles opponent playing with an eastern forehand volley grip, I immediately tell my partner to go for dippers at his feet, because that grip is at a big disadvantage any time the player is not in a position to hit downward on the volley.

The disadvantage of the Eastern forehand grip is that you have to switch grips. That is why a player should use the Continental. But, it is not a "better" grip. The Eastern and the Continental are in the range of acceptable grips for volleys much like the Eastern to the Western is acceptable for forehands.

Also, the Easterns CAN hit low balls as I use an Eastern as well. Positioning and using a good knee bend to field the ball is what brings the Eastern up.

It doesn't matter if you hit dippers or clippers, a Continental player that does not bend their knees and does not properly position themselves will have the same trouble!

I played with the eastern forehand grip all the way through high school, even though teaching pros constantly suggested I switch to continental. I finally relented and made the swtich. It wasn't easy, but after switching, my volleys are a LOT better than they would be if I had stuck with the eastern. And I wish that I would have listened and made the switch a lot earlier when my strokes were more malleable.

You should have listened. Just like you should listen now. You gave false information regarding the Eastern grips for volleys. No one is saying not to use the Continental and no one is saying that a player should not move to the Continental.

For some players, using the Eastern are a perfectly fine avenue to move to the Continental. The volley is about the arm motion, body positioning, and footwork. It is similar to the theory that some players can move from the twohanded forehand to the onehanded forehand.

Tennismastery
05-23-2006, 06:08 AM
Well here we go again. THIS IS ABSOLTUELY FALSE! There are pros that volley and DO volley with the Eastern grips. The wrist position in the Easterns are strong enabling a player to volley corsscourt and DTL!

Pros do use the Eastern grip for volleys. I have already proven this.



NOT TRUE!!! The continental does not LOCK the wrist in anything! This is the major weakness of the Continental grip. At the Vic Braden Tennis College we did a study on this and it is hands down clear the the Easterns provide better wrist support and angle then the Continental.

All one has to do is visit their local tennis center and watch players using execessive wrist action in their volleys with the Continental grip.



The disadvantage of the Eastern forehand grip is that you have to switch grips. That is why a player should use the Continental. But, it is not a "better" grip. The Eastern and the Continental are in the range of acceptable grips for volleys much like the Eastern to the Western is acceptable for forehands.

Also, the Easterns CAN hit low balls as I use an Eastern as well. Positioning and using a good knee bend to field the ball is what brings the Eastern up.

It doesn't matter if you hit dippers or clippers, a Continental player that does not bend their knees and does not properly position themselves will have the same trouble!



You should have listened. Just like you should listen now. You gave false information regarding the Eastern grips for volleys. No one is saying not to use the Continental and no one is saying that a player should not move to the Continental.

For some players, using the Eastern are a perfectly fine avenue to move to the Continental. The volley is about the arm motion, body positioning, and footwork. It is similar to the theory that some players can move from the twohanded forehand to the onehanded forehand.

I agree with Bill on these many points, with one exception...and this is just based on my experience of teaching...it is very difficult to move from the eastern grips to the continental grip for many. Not only is the grip different, but the volley components change slightly between the eastern and continental grips: The contact point is more to the player's side with the continental grip; the racquet lies more parallel to the forearm with the continental grip (especially on the backhand side); The continental grip tends to promote more underspin whereas the eastern tends to promote a flatter volley. These features make more than just 'changing the grip' and makes it hard to transition to the continental after one has began competing with the eastern.

With these statements, I will offer a compromizing note: I agree there are many exceptions to all of these remarks and have seen examples of players who hit more eastern gripped volleys with exceptional results. My comments are more based on the generalized concept of one idea: It is usually easier to learn the continental as the first volley learning concept than it is to try and change later.

Just as it is usually easier for a two-handed player to learn a one-handed swing pattern than it is for a one-hander to learn a two-handed (backhand or forehand). This is another generalized statement that has exceptions...and based on my 32 years of teaching. Certainly, I can be proven wrong in some situations.

nViATi
05-23-2006, 06:11 AM
Just as it is usually easier for a two-handed player to learn a one-handed swing pattern than it is for a one-hander to learn a two-handed (backhand or forehand).
Really? I've found that most of my 2hand backhand friends hit horrible 1hand backhands when they try to hit one. Continental grip, late contact, bent elbow, wrist + elbow flicking and twisting! :shock:

Bungalo Bill
05-23-2006, 06:27 AM
it is very difficult to move from the eastern grips to the continental grip for many. Not only is the grip different, but the volley components change slightly between the eastern and continental grips:

I think this is the only area in a small way we disagree as I have found the opposite to be true. I am not saying it is a walk in the park, but at the same time, it isn't as hard as people make it. It really depends on how you approach it and coach it.

I get crossed up in thinking why it wouldn't be hard to teach someone the twohanded forehand and then switching to the onehanded forehand as they do feel much different.

With these statements, I will offer a compromizing note: I agree there are many exceptions to all of these remarks and have seen examples of players who hit more eastern gripped volleys with exceptional results. My comments are more based on the generalized concept of one idea: It is usually easier to learn the continental as the first volley learning concept than it is to try and change later.

In general, yes this is true. However, I need to have an open mind regarding the twohanded forehand. As much as I think it is inferior to the onehanded forehand and that someone learning the twohanded forehand would have a difficult time transistioning back to the onehanded forehand, I have to keep an open mind.

Further, as long as you are teaching the same volley motion as a standard, a player will have some adjusting to do when slowly moving toward a Continental. It is much like having a player switch from an Eastern to a Semi-Western. There is always new balance points, sensory learning, etc...but like anything and with practice any one can.

Any we agree.

andreh
05-23-2006, 06:32 AM
I can only speak from personal experiance. I'm a decent vollyer and I do tiny alterations to my grip on volleys all the time. Low volley, high volley, bh-volley, fh-volley all require different grips for me. They all in close proximity to the continental grip and never as extreme as an Eastern, but it's not an "exact" continental grip either. After watching a hundred Edberg matches on TV I must conclude that he did the same thing - tiny alterations of the grip for different volleys.

Bungalo Bill
05-23-2006, 06:35 AM
I can only speak from personal experiance. I'm a decent vollyer and I do tiny alterations to my grip on volleys all the time. Low volley, high volley, bh-volley, fh-volley all require different grips for me. They all in close proximity to the continental grip and never as extreme as an Eastern, but it's not an "exact" continental grip either. After watching a hundred Edberg matches on TV I must conclude that he did the same thing - tiny alterations of the grip for different volleys.

You should watch Sampras and Rafter as well. Two great volleyers. None of them volleyed in a pure continental grip. I also do not volley in a pure continental. After completing the study with Vic, I found out I wasn't crazy. The Continental grip is indeed an awkward grip for volleying on both sides. It is a tough grip for many to get used too.

For some, it comes natural, for many others, it is awkward and places the wrist in a weak position.

andreh
05-23-2006, 06:46 AM
You should watch Sampras and Rafter as well. Two great volleyers. None of them volleyed in a pure continental grip. I also do not volley in a pure continental. After completing the study with Vic, I found out I wasn't crazy. The Continental grip is indeed an awkward grip for volleying on both sides. It is a tough grip for many to get used too.

For some, it comes natural, for many others, it is awkward and places the wrist in a weak position.

I have watched them as well and you're right, they do switch their grips around, not in any extreme way, but still noticable if you pay close attention. I might also add that these grip alterations are more reflexes than concious decisions. They just seem to happen. Of course that wasn't the case when I was in the early learning stages, but it is now.

Bungalo Bill
05-23-2006, 07:04 AM
I have watched them as well and you're right, they do switch their grips around, not in any extreme way, but still noticable if you pay close attention. I might also add that these grip alterations are more reflexes than concious decisions. They just seem to happen. Of course that wasn't the case when I was in the early learning stages, but it is now.

I was thinking about this and was wondering why it was difficult to communicate all of this. We really shouldn't be arguing about this. Here is why I do not have a hard time moving someone to a Continental if they are using an Eastern or whatever.

Remember, I also believe the Continental is an excellent volley grip on both sides and is exceptionally great for managing quick exchanges. So when I speak of the following it is in light of this.

How to benefit from the Easterns.

1. You must practice using the time proven swing path motion no matter what.

2. A player must ignore, the cons of the grip and hit the ball correctly. I could rattle off the cons of the Continental grip and can't tell you how many people use an improper "choppy" swinging swing path with that grip. So no grip is immune to lousey technique.

3. When a player has gotten fed up with the Continental and is fine using the Eastern, be sure to use a laid back wrist position as this OPENS the racquet face. Now you can use the correct volley motion and have the best of all worlds with the exception of the grip switch. YOu can open the face for the low balls, you can put slice on the ball, you can also flatten it out and pound the bal DOWN in the court on balls Continental grippers would normally sail long.

4. The wrist position that you use can now transfer to the Continental making it a much easier transistion.

5. What most people think, is that the wrist position for the Eastern is straight and therefore the racquet head is facing down or too flat. This promotes an improper swing path TennisMastery was talking about.

6. You can and should use the laid back position for the wrist as well on the Continental and this is what makes it easier to transfer when a player is ready.

7. On the bachand volley do not go full eastern use the crease between the continental and the full eastern for your base knuckle.

kevhen
05-23-2006, 07:21 AM
I find it much easier to volley with eastern forehand than continental and also easier to slam down overheads. I am trying to use continental on both sides for vollies when practicing but my forehand volley was already good and with continental it is not as good. Go with eastern if it is working.

chess9
05-23-2006, 07:37 AM
I will sometimes serve using a slightly Eastern grip when I want to hit a flat serve down the T. It's about halfway between E and C. Anyway, I've noticed that my backhand volley is slightly better using the E volley grip and my forehand volley is slightly worse. I use the C grip on almost all of my volleys otherwise and think it is the best solution for me. I don't hit overheads well with the E grip because I turn quite a bit on my overheads and find that for accuracy the C grip is better. FOR ME.

Interesting discussion!

-Robert

siber222000
05-23-2006, 10:10 AM
i find it easier to do overheads with a continental grip...
me too, i think it generates more time / power for me to hit the over head