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Double G
05-25-2006, 09:23 PM
:mad: He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys in him. No mental, no speed, no penetrating groundies. How did he win

No competition

wyutani
05-25-2006, 09:25 PM
geez~ he's a lefty, not many lefty nowadays. anyway, when he won wimbledon, he was facing rafter. everybody knows rafter is a net rusher...a risk taker.

Andres
05-25-2006, 09:29 PM
:mad: He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys in him. No mental, no speed, no penetrating groundies. How did he win

No competition
His serve was the best out there. Good volleys, good strokes. He was good.

wyutani
05-25-2006, 09:36 PM
why are there so many goran's thread all of a sudden eh? is it his bday or something?...ok, safe to say goran has a huge serve, second to roddick speed serve. forgot to mention that. i admit, he's a hard player to copy.

Andres
05-25-2006, 09:37 PM
why are there so many goran's thread all of a sudden eh? is it his bday or something?...ok, safe to say goran has a huge serve, second to roddick speed serve. forgot to mention that. i admit, he's a hard player to copy.
He has a huge serve, indeed, but about the Roddick thing? You're quite wrong there.

superman1
05-25-2006, 09:43 PM
He's an example of why Sampras had a hell of a lot more than just a big serve and great volleys. He only won one Slam, so it's not like he dominated or anything. Thomas Johansson won a Slam in 2003, was there no depth then?

RiosTheGenius
05-25-2006, 10:04 PM
He's an example of why Sampras had a hell of a lot more than just a big serve and great volleys. He only won one Slam, so it's not like he dominated or anything. Thomas Johansson won a Slam in 2003, was there no depth then?
I'm sorry, but Ivanisevic was far more respected and feared than Johansson ever was. let alone he was a steady top ten unlike Johansson. let's not make ridiculous comparisons

Andres
05-25-2006, 10:06 PM
And about his "LONE" slam win, he did made it to other 3 Wimby finals, so it was not a fluke... and he lost them to the greatest grasscourter, Pete Sampras, twice, on two tight matches, and another to Agassi, ANOTHER extremely tight match...

sandiegotennisboy
05-25-2006, 10:09 PM
And about his "LONE" slam win, he did made it to other 3 Wimby finals, so it was not a fluke... and he lost them to the greatest grasscourter, Pete Sampras, twice, on two tight matches, and another to Agassi, ANOTHER extremely tight match...

sorry were pickin on ur hero bro. couldnt you pick an active player. hehe.

superman1
05-25-2006, 10:16 PM
I wasn't comparing him to Johansson, I was just saying that his "fluke" win was no indication of lack of competition, just like Baghdatis' run to the final was not because of lack of competition.

And obviously Ivanisevic did not win 22 titles with an average game. His attacking style is always dangerous and he would have had success in any era. But it's still a boring style to watch.

wyutani
05-25-2006, 10:19 PM
i hear goran highest rank is 2nd in 1994, behind pistol pete...geez~ pity.

Net Rusher
05-25-2006, 10:36 PM
if 'He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys' or so-called luck, How could he break the following player's games and beat them in one tournament? Rafter, Heman, Safin, Roddick, Moya, Rusedeski. 4 of them reached world no.1, 2 reached no.4, and maybe all were top 30 seeds at that time.

pero
05-25-2006, 11:58 PM
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playersearch=ivanisevic

Singles Record:
599 - 333

Singles Titles:
22
Doubles Record:
263 - 225

Double Titles:
9
Prize Money:
$19,876,579

i think this is enough said ;)

vive le beau jeu !
05-26-2006, 12:26 AM
His serve was the best out there. Good volleys, good strokes. He was good.
well said. :)

i hear goran highest rank is 2nd in 1994, behind pistol pete...geez~ pity.

goran was also n°2 in 1997 (still behind pete) and stayed many many weeks in the top 10 !
he won tournaments on all surfaces. :D
he won 2 olympic medals (single + double) at barcelona 1992... winning 4 straight five setters on clay ! (record)

just with a serve ?
no. :cool:

PS: and beating moya, roddick, rusedski, safin, henman and rafter (at wimbledon 2001)... who could call that lack of competition ?!

Ivanišević
05-26-2006, 01:34 AM
:mad: He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys in him. No mental, no speed, no penetrating groundies. How did he win

No competition

no competition... only serve..
how old are you? have u ever played tennis?!?

tennus
05-26-2006, 05:10 AM
:mad: He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys in him. No mental, no speed, no penetrating groundies. How did he win

No competition

Double G, go find the 5 set Wimbledon Final Goran vs Pat Rafter. Rafter a duel US open champ had a brilliant grass game and played out of his tree in that match yet still lost. All credit to the ability of Goran. Even more impressive was he only made the tournament after being granted a wildcard. :cool:

croatian sensation
05-26-2006, 05:26 AM
Since Andres,Pero, Vive le... and the rest were so kind to actually respond intelligently to this stupid provocation, there is nothing more to add.

Take your trolling elsewhere... (I consider this trolling since you stated a fact that a player is crap without any arguments -never mind that you couldn't have any arguments in this case)

And btw. this reminds me of McEnroe..who was a comentator in 2001 and said Goran won't do anything in Wimbledon, that he only has a serve.

Colpo
05-26-2006, 07:18 AM
Goran was a sensational, fun player - when he was on-court at a tournament you were attending, you'd go to that court to watch, period. Maybe the greatest serve ever, from either side. The whole build-up to his serve, from the footwork to the coiling to the toss to the explosion into the ball - AWESOME. Incredibly fluid from both the backcourt and at net. Could expolde into his groundies. Had better passing shots than your boy Roddick, who looks clueless oftentimes when his opponent's at net. Don't drag down Goran's game because he was mercurial and underachieving and because you never knew who was going to show up for a given match. I wish we still had him on tour.

urban
05-26-2006, 07:44 AM
First serve was deadly, volleys were mediocre, could be liable, especially on the backhand side. At the outset of his career was more of a baseliner with a strong forehand, that looked somewhat cramped, but was effective. Once beat Becker in 1rst round RG, reached quarters there and several time semis and final of Rome. His backhand return was good on grass, problem was the second return hot, the passing shot, wher he squandered many chances, especially against Sampras. In the later 90s could not get consistency in his game, came alive only at Wimbledon.

Andres
05-26-2006, 07:55 AM
volleys were mediocre
Nah, I can't let you take that. Certainly, he wasn't Rafter, Edberg or McEnroe, but he had some great volleys, specially drop volleys.

He's not the greatest volleyer, but he's light yeard beyond Roddick's or Agassi's...

urban
05-26-2006, 08:36 AM
I have seen Goran miss so many medium difficult volleys on grass and indoors against Sampras or Becker in tight situations, that i can it call no more than quite good. At 30-40 4-5 he would hit an ace, or you could bet, that he would miss the volley. I think, his grip was a disadvantage.

Dedans Penthouse
05-26-2006, 09:39 AM
:mad: He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys in him. No mental, no speed, no penetrating groundies. How did he win
How? In a word: talent.

Why haven't YOU or anyone elso on this board (even me if you can believe that!!) won Wimbledon?

In a word: talent, specifically "tennis" talent.

No competition
Patrick Rafter; no competion? Come on, get serious. Rafter himself was a (multi) Grand Slam winner.

You want "no competition?" You can begin and end, maybe, with Wimbledon 1973 (the year of the boycott) & Jan Kodes.

Double G: imho, you double-faulted on this one.

Ivo was a headcase, but a very likeable one (that is, he wasn't some snooty little creep). No groundies? The guy's backhand was pretty solid especially for a guy that tall (i.e. wasn't floppy/sloppy given his "wingspan"). Against Agassi, yes, I can still see him absolutely BRICKING that volley into the net on match point. But against Rafter? I was in England at the time and believe me, Ivo won an incredibly pressure-packed match in an atmosphere that I've yet to see anything come close to matching; and I've witnessed in person many nutty scenes both at the U.S. Open and Wimbledon. Did Ivo cop a break weather-wise (i.e. did Henman get a bad break weather-wise?). Maybe.....er, yes he did. But remember Ivo overcame a lot; wild card enty....dad was having by-pass surgery, shoulder "shot" needed painkillers, etc. The guy DID win Wimbledon. Anyone else on this board even PLAY at Wimby let alone with the stupid thing?

Do remember that before you walk through the door onto center court, the ticket for admission ONTO Center Court at Wimbledon is:

Talent.

Double G
05-26-2006, 10:16 AM
no competition... only serve..
how old are you? have u ever played tennis?!?
I am saying that there was no competition back then

Andres
05-26-2006, 10:18 AM
I am saying that there was no competition back then
Specially with Sampras, Rafter, Agassi, Edberg, Chang, Henman, Stich, Becker, Muster, Wilander and Krajicek around...
Yeah, no competition back then ... :roll:

wyutani
05-26-2006, 10:21 AM
Specially with Sampras, Rafter, Agassi, Edberg, Chang, Henman, Stich, Becker, Muster, Wilander and Krajicek around...
Yeah, no competition back then ... :roll:

haha, so true. actually there is no competition now. during goran's time, there were plenty. now we just have fed and nadal...

Ivanišević
05-26-2006, 10:22 AM
How? In a word: talent.

Why haven't YOU or anyone elso on this board (even me if you can believe that!!) won Wimbledon?

In a word: talent, specifically "tennis" talent.


Patrick Rafter; no competion? Come on, get serious. Rafter himself was a (multi) Grand Slam winner.

You want "no competition?" You can begin and end, maybe, with Wimbledon 1973 (the year of the boycott) & Jan Kodes.

Double G: imho, you double-faulted on this one.

Ivo was a headcase, but a very likeable one (that is, he wasn't some snooty little creep). No groundies? The guy's backhand was pretty solid especially for a guy that tall (i.e. wasn't floppy/sloppy given his "wingspan"). Against Agassi, yes, I can still see him absolutely BRICKING that volley into the net on match point. But against Rafter? I was in England at the time and believe me, Ivo won an incredibly pressure-packed match in an atmosphere that I've yet to see anything come close to matching; and I've witnessed in person many nutty scenes both at the U.S. Open and Wimbledon. Did Ivo cop a break weather-wise (i.e. did Henman get a bad break weather-wise?). Maybe.....er, yes he did. But remember Ivo overcame a lot; wild card enty....dad was having by-pass surgery, shoulder "shot" needed painkillers, etc. The guy DID win Wimbledon. Anyone else on this board even PLAY at Wimby let alone with the stupid thing?

Do remember that before you walk through the door onto center court, the ticket for admission ONTO Center Court at Wimbledon is:

Talent.
ivo? you mean goran?

Andres
05-26-2006, 10:24 AM
ivo? you mean goran?
They like to call "Ivo" to Goran, because of IVANisevic.
It's a little nickname... I'd only readed in this board :mrgreen:

Double G
05-26-2006, 01:51 PM
Specially with Sampras, Rafter, Agassi, Edberg, Chang, Henman, Stich, Becker, Muster, Wilander and Krajicek around...
Yeah, no competition back then ... :roll:
Sampras was playing sucky back then, Andre was being killed by no-jnamers (back then it was paradorn...)Muster was only a good clay courter, Wilander was not in Goran's generation for the most part.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/headtohead/head2head.asp?player1=Ivanisevic%2C+Goran&player2=Muster

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/headtohead/head2head.asp?player1=Ivanisevic%2C+Goran&player2=Wilander

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/headtohead/head2head.asp?player1=Ivanisevic%2C+Goran&player2=Wilander
Sampras was just getting started in his career tha is why he won the early ones but Sampras kicked his butt later on

Muster and Krajicek had weak serves and returns

Andres
05-26-2006, 01:52 PM
You got a excuse for everything.
You're trolling for the simple pleasure trolling produces you.
Get lost ;)

Eviscerator
05-26-2006, 02:47 PM
:mad: He only had his serve and a little bit of volleys in him. No mental, no speed, no penetrating groundies. How did he win

No competition

:rolleyes:
He was much better than what you give him credit for. Had it not been for Pete's dominance, he would have been #1 in the world for a tear or so.

superman1
05-26-2006, 04:31 PM
No, without Pete Sampras, Agassi would have been the dominator.

katarddx
05-26-2006, 04:49 PM
Specially with Sampras, Rafter, Agassi, Edberg, Chang, Henman, Stich, Becker, Muster, Wilander and Krajicek around...
Yeah, no competition back then ... :roll:
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! Oh Yeah, "no competition"... You nailed it AG! Enough said! Zec was a good player with the best of them at his time and that is why he won the Wimby. Not the greatest but good enough and talented enough.

Mr.Federer
05-26-2006, 05:28 PM
I am saying that there was no competition back then


There is always competition on the pro tour no matter what era it is. It is so disrespectful to not give credit to a player by saying he had no competition.

!Tym
05-26-2006, 07:06 PM
He wasn't slow by any stretch of the imagination. He was very nimble for a guy his height. I would say he was a lazy mover, but not slow. They're not the same thing. He was like a champion 400m runner as a junior, so I don't know where it's gotten that he couldn't move well. Now, Todd Martin; that's slow, yet not lazy. It kind of balances out, see what I mean?

Goran also had a solid and versatile two-hander, could slice comfortably, but nothing really outrageous off that side. Was like a better version of Roddick's backhand. Was not a strength, but still able to go toe to toe with just about anyone off this side.

His forehand was very much the same, except he could occasionally bop it off here.

Overall, good but not great groundies, well-balanced off both sides so no glaring weakness to attack off the ground, which in a way could be described as a strength for him.

Solid return of serve, sometimes dangerous return of serve off the backhand if he got hot.

His volleys could get shaky under stress, but otherwise he was fairly solid in this regard and much like his groundies, good but not great. However, you also have to factor in his enormous wing span and serve, which made him one of the more intimidating presences at the net on his best days despite not exactly being Mr. Fred Astaire up there (a.k.a. Stefan Edberg).

Basically overall he was good but not great in every area including movement. His serve, of course, was unbelievable. He wasn't as brilliant a shotmaker as say Petr Korda, but he was in just so many ways right down the middle in every category which made him a difficult player to attack or formulate a game plan for since there was no glaring weakness to attack other than his head.

His head really was his biggest weakness.

I really wouldn't call him an elite caliber talent, I don't think he was quite as natural or as intuitive as some of the other top players of his day; but his serve was the great equalizer and when he got on a roll with it, sometimes you really just had no chance other than to hope that he would get tight and choke at key points, which he could and DID do.

All in all, I think he finished his career about right where he should in terms of career achievements.

Andres
05-26-2006, 09:24 PM
He wasn't slow by any stretch of the imagination. He was very nimble for a guy his height. I would say he was a lazy mover, but not slow. They're not the same thing. He was like a champion 400m runner as a junior, so I don't know where it's gotten that he couldn't move well. Now, Todd Martin; that's slow, yet not lazy. It kind of balances out, see what I mean?

Goran also had a solid and versatile two-hander, could slice comfortably, but nothing really outrageous off that side. Was like a better version of Roddick's backhand. Was not a strength, but still able to go toe to toe with just about anyone off this side.

His forehand was very much the same, except he could occasionally bop it off here.

Overall, good but not great groundies, well-balanced off both sides so no glaring weakness to attack off the ground, which in a way could be described as a strength for him.

Solid return of serve, sometimes dangerous return of serve off the backhand if he got hot.

His volleys could get shaky under stress, but otherwise he was fairly solid in this regard and much like his groundies, good but not great. However, you also have to factor in his enormous wing span and serve, which made him one of the more intimidating presences at the net on his best days despite not exactly being Mr. Fred Astaire up there (a.k.a. Stefan Edberg).

Basically overall he was good but not great in every area including movement. His serve, of course, was unbelievable. He wasn't as brilliant a shotmaker as say Petr Korda, but he was in just so many ways right down the middle in every category which made him a difficult player to attack or formulate a game plan for since there was no glaring weakness to attack other than his head.

His head really was his biggest weakness.

I really wouldn't call him an elite caliber talent, I don't think he was quite as natural or as intuitive as some of the other top players of his day; but his serve was the great equalizer and when he got on a roll with it, sometimes you really just had no chance other than to hope that he would get tight and choke at key points, which he could and DID do.

All in all, I think he finished his career about right where he should in terms of career achievements.
Nice, insightful, and precise comment ;)
Right on, Tym! Congrats ;)