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Double G
05-29-2006, 01:36 PM
I am trying to get a one hsnder going for more versatility but I suck at it. It keeps going in the net or OUT VERTICALLY. The technique I am trying to get is Federer's but I still suck. Tips?

tonysk83
05-29-2006, 01:42 PM
My 1hbh improved when I started playing with more flexible racquets. Once I switched to a midsize it also helped my 1hbh aswell. I don't know the technique of the 1hbh to help you enough, but I do know whiching to a more flexible, thinner beam frame and a midsize racquet helped my 1hbh.

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 02:24 PM
I am trying to get a one hsnder going for more versatility but I suck at it. It keeps going in the net or OUT VERTICALLY. The technique I am trying to get is Federer's but I still suck. Tips?

Federer is good but if you are trying to get it down, I would suggest not using so much forearm supination and simply maintaining the long L through your shot until you get your timing down.

Also, the most critical area in the arm technique to learn about the onehander is the hitting hand pattern the pros make. You need to see it, copy it, and practice it on EVERY ball until it is second nature.

Amone
05-29-2006, 04:04 PM
As usual, you make quite defensible and interesting comments, Bill. I'll just throw in my personal experience, even though I'm far from a good player.

I picked up my one-hander in one day, less than two hours even. I was just hitting off a ball machine, when a coach at the "club"-- for I would hardly call the YMCA a club-- I was practicing at just said to hit with a lower, more level backswing, and brush up on the ball. What I mean to say is, just have a coach watch you; the odds are really good they'll be able to help you more than anyone here.

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 04:12 PM
As usual, you make quite defensible and interesting comments, Bill. I'll just throw in my personal experience, even though I'm far from a good player.

I picked up my one-hander in one day, less than two hours even. I was just hitting off a ball machine, when a coach at the "club"-- for I would hardly call the YMCA a club-- I was practicing at just said to hit with a lower, more level backswing, and brush up on the ball. What I mean to say is, just have a coach watch you; the odds are really good they'll be able to help you more than anyone here.

Exactly, with intervention, coaching a player helps improve a player as compared to just letting them take their "natural" path. Whatever that is.

Like any other sport, tennis requires training. It is NOT natural for players to maintain bent knees. It is not natural for a onehander to use the U pattern for their stroke which improves efficiency and effectivness. It is not natural for players to keep their head still during the shot. It is not natural to shorten the backswing for the return of serve.

When we grow up many of us learn "natural" movements through training and practice. We train our muscles to fire a certain way for walking, running, swinging, everything.

When I used to ski, I could come down a hill and made my cuts as if I was in a slalom. Then I tried the gates. Whooa, what a different story! My muscles and brain were disconnected as to WHEN to turn and how to handle the landscape. What seemed natural wasn't so natural!

The same is true in tennis. Anyone can go pick up a racquet and start swatting at the ball. Anyone. Well almost anyone. But it requires discipline and training to hit the ball with a good grip, the right swing speed, and using correct technique. Once a player hones that in, the naturalness of the stroke comes out, but you have to train the body to fire the muscles in the correct sequence and in the right way. There is no way around it.

I will admit that some people will have this built into them, but many people don't. Just take a look at the videos submitted and the hitches in peoples swings. Many people didnt even know they could improve their efficiency!

eLterrible
05-29-2006, 04:14 PM
when i mess around in practice and hit 1handed, i find that the key is to take the ball way in front and too much wrist action will start to hurt after a while, so pay attention to that. however, im not expert on a one handed backhand at all so you dont really need to listen to me i guess.

Amone
05-29-2006, 04:19 PM
when i mess around in practice and hit 1handed, i find that the key is to take the ball way in front and too much wrist action will start to hurt after a while, so pay attention to that. however, im not expert on a one handed backhand at all so you dont really need to listen to me i guess.

Interestingly, eL, your point is probably the one thing that nobody here's said, that needed to be said. When I hit my backhand, I do it-- ideally, mind-- at a full arm's length out in front. Well, probably not, but that's what it feels like to me, since it's just part of my natural extention to that point of my arm being straight with my shoulders, and the ball is usually below shoulder level.

So, expert or no, you're actually quite correct.

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 04:28 PM
Interestingly, eL, your point is probably the one thing that nobody here's said, that needed to be said. When I hit my backhand, I do it-- ideally, mind-- at a full arm's length out in front. Well, probably not, but that's what it feels like to me, since it's just part of my natural extention to that point of my arm being straight with my shoulders, and the ball is usually below shoulder level.

So, expert or no, you're actually quite correct.

Good stuff hit out front! Not too much in front which tends to cause a breaking in the wrist firmness to compensate.

Amone
05-29-2006, 04:36 PM
Good stuff hit out front! Not too much in front which tends to cause a breaking in the wrist firmness to compensate.

Then again, wouldn't that be more than arm's length, Bill?:p

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 04:47 PM
Then again, wouldn't that be more than arm's length, Bill?:p

the rule of thumb is 12 - 18 inches from your shoulder. Obviously, there is preference mixed into that. But that is the general rule. SOme players will lunge forward because they didnt line up correctly.

Woodstock_Tennis
05-29-2006, 05:34 PM
Only thing I worry about when hitting my bh is that I have shifted all my way through the ball, the 1hbh is a lot easier to pick up then the fh....

blue03
05-29-2006, 06:55 PM
i use my thumb as a support when gripping my backhand grip . is it correct to do so?

geesechops
05-29-2006, 07:09 PM
i use my thumb as a support when gripping my backhand grip . is it correct to do so?

I also do this and it works very well for me. I think it's a habbit I picked up because of Table Tennis. I wondered if anyone else did this. I'm not too sure if this is going to hurt me in the long run, but right now I have no plans of switching.

p.s. - - -VAMOS RAFA!!!

AngeloDS
05-29-2006, 08:04 PM
The thing is Federer's shot requires 100% on timing and 100% of his racquet doing the work. A thing about Federer's backhand as well is it requires an incredible amount of footwork.

All of that can't be learned overnight or "told" -- just reinforced practice can really get any of that down. Knowing where the ball will be, being at the right spot, and being able to take it out in front and being used to the pace.

The one handed backhand requires taking full, long strokes as well. If you're not taking full long strokes. You're not used to the pace and have poor footwork.

The technique is better left to a teaching-pro to teach you.

geesechops
05-29-2006, 09:52 PM
The thing is Federer's shot requires 100% on timing and 100% of his racquet doing the work. A thing about Federer's backhand as well is it requires an incredible amount of footwork.

All of that can't be learned overnight or "told" -- just reinforced practice can really get any of that down. Knowing where the ball will be, being at the right spot, and being able to take it out in front and being used to the pace.

The one handed backhand requires taking full, long strokes as well. If you're not taking full long strokes. You're not used to the pace and have poor footwork.

The technique is better left to a teaching-pro to teach you.

This is the worst advice ever. So I need a racquet that does 100% of the work, but then why would I also need an additional 100% of timing. And what the heck is 100% of timing? So if the 1HBH can't be "told", then what is a teaching pro going to do, download it into your head.

In my opinion teaching pro's are a waste of money. They might have good ideas in general that you can use, but I've seen way too many people taking bad advice on how to tweek their shots.

The best things to do is study technique that you like or would best suit you and practice, practice, practice. The great thing about tennis is that it's an individuals game, and no one person plays the same. You need to find how YOU best hit the ball. Look at BLAKE's backhand it was junk until he shortened up his backswing, and now its a weapon. We all don't have to copy Federer.

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 10:18 PM
This is the worst advice ever. So I need a racquet that does 100% of the work, but then why would I also need an additional 100% of timing. And what the heck is 100% of timing? So if the 1HBH can't be "told", then what is a teaching pro going to do, download it into your head.

In my opinion teaching pro's are a waste of money. They might have good ideas in general that you can use, but I've seen way too many people taking bad advice on how to tweek their shots.

The best things to do is study technique that you like or would best suit you and practice, practice, practice. The great thing about tennis is that it's an individuals game, and no one person plays the same. You need to find how YOU best hit the ball. Look at BLAKE's backhand it was junk until he shortened up his backswing, and now its a weapon. We all don't have to copy Federer.

You have some valid points here. I dont know if you really understood what DS was trying to say.

One thing I will disagree with is the devaluing of a good teaching pro. A good pro can do much more then one may seem to think. A good pro can examine your stroke over mutiple shot sequences to see when and were your stroke begins to breakdown. They can also see where your footwork begins to lose its effectiveness.

Although I can agree with you that much can be learned by reviewing a pros stroke, it is difficult for a player to "see" himself while he is hitting and concentrating the many aspects of maintaining good technique.

For example, a week ago I was helping a pro with his students. One of the students had a huge backswing on their forehand. I asked the students prior to going through my exercises and drills what concerns them the most. This student said that she had trouble with her forehand and her timing on certain balls.

After going through an isolated exercise about what a good appropriate backswing felt like, she hit about three balls well with moderate pressure. As soon as I sped up the feed or made the feed a bit more difficult she reverted to her big backswing. I mentioned this to her as she hit a couple more balls but to her, she felt she was using short backswing.

I stopped her and had her go back to the appropriate backswing and then fed her some more balls. It still took time to get her to realize while under pressure to feel when she was bringing her racquet back too far.

A good pro can also review how you take the racquet back. Habib, a poster here, offered his video for analysis. His hitting hand path was taking the wrong path, although he made it work for him. After pointing out how he should take the racquet back using a different path, this stalled his development which is natural when someone is learning or relearning something.

In my studies in human learning technology, undoing something can often digress a player backwards as the brain struggles to learn which muscles to fire first and how.

A good pro can really help a student accelerate what they learn on their own.

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 10:20 PM
i use my thumb as a support when gripping my backhand grip . is it correct to do so?

Yes! The thumb is very important on the grip. It provides the strength in the hand for the onehanded backhand.

limitup
05-29-2006, 10:22 PM
I think he meant he puts his thumb behind the grip, sticking straight out away from his other fingers. I've seen people do this, but it's not common. I've never seen a top pro do it ...

AngeloDS
05-29-2006, 11:00 PM
I think you misunderstood or something. Eitherway, I'll try to explain it.

The racquet does 100% of the work simply because you cannot arm the ball (which quite a bit of people do who learn the one handed backhand by hitting late usually) taking it out as far as Federer does -- possibly wrist it but even then a lot of the work is being done by the racquet.

I never said the one handed backhand can't be told/taught. The things such as footwork, anticipation and timing which the one handed backhand heavily requires can't. It's just a matter of experience and reinforced practice that will help you in the match.

The technique on the other hand should be looked at by a teaching pro. The $20-40+ or however much it costs an hour is worth it. A lot of people don't realize how their strokes look until they've seen it themselves. As Bungalo Bill said about the troubles with watching yourself and concentrating on good stroke mechanics. Only a few can really do that since video cameras are quite expensive and cameras on digital cameras, cell phones and what not have horrible to mediocre quality.

Even then, a pro can see the whole picture on the spot and from all angles (and clearly see where you take the ball at) to see where the weak chains are and help fix or improve those areas via drilling. Such as not getting down low enough one handed backhand, stepping into the ball, widening your base and other various problems that he or she can help you with.

A lot of people go out and practice, but the problem is a lot of people practice the wrong things. So a lot of problems arise when people get older and teaching pros have to unfix poor habits that are picked up.

I remember someone on the board saying this quote, not sure who it was but credit to him or her. "Practice makes permanent." Instead of practice makes perfect. Which is pretty much true :p.

It's why I really like managing and being an assistant coach for womens JV or mens JV tennis at the high school level. A lot are coming in with no experience, no bad habits and are blank pieces of paper so there is nothing to be undone; which makes it a lot easier for me. This is why I kind of shy away from Varsity teaching since a lot of them have bad habits that will take a lot of hours to fix. Though, I do hit with them to help them with their consistency with what they have :p.

Bungalo Bill
05-29-2006, 11:02 PM
I think he meant he puts his thumb behind the grip, sticking straight out away from his other fingers. I've seen people do this, but it's not common. I've never seen a top pro do it ...

I see, well I am not a proponent of placing the thumb on top of the grip. The thumb is a key strength mechanism to a onehanders racquet stability. It needs to be behind the handle or under if you are using an extreme grip.

blue03
05-29-2006, 11:04 PM
I think he meant he puts his thumb behind the grip, sticking straight out away from his other fingers. I've seen people do this, but it's not common. I've never seen a top pro do it ...


you are absolutely correct. thats how i do it. i can get a better driving flat ball with that. now i'm trying to grip with normal grip and surprise i can put top spin on it easily.

btw, i'm using eastern backhand grip.
can i get injury in long term with the former grip?

Mattle
05-30-2006, 04:05 AM
This one is also for Bungalo Bill:

My one hander im trying to make it more like my forehand. Because I'm at the certain stage, probably the same as you, where you have to HIT through the ball , and not push. Making a stable shot with forehand succeds when I make a certain swing path for the certain circumstances (place, opponents place, dirrection, pace, spin and height of ball, and of course wind :S) The thing that helps me is to bring the racquet down in follow through. The most pros and their onehandedbackhands and ending up and across on the follow through... can you do more like a wind shield wiper? i think It helps sometimes.

Some where we all miss something. Because when pro's uses their followthrough upwards.. they can hit a flat ball... We don't have the whole story... i think the wrist is doing a difference.. but i don't know how..

Mattle
05-30-2006, 04:06 AM
This one is also for Bungalo Bill:

My one hander im trying to make it more like my forehand. Because I'm at the certain stage, probably the same as you, where you have to HIT through the ball , and not push. Making a stable shot with forehand succeds when I make a certain swing path for the certain circumstances (place, opponents place, dirrection, pace, spin and height of ball, and of course wind :S) The thing that helps me is to bring the racquet down in follow through. The most pros and their onehandedbackhands are ending up and across on the follow through... can you do more like a wind shield wiper? i think It helps sometimes.

Some where we all miss something. Because when pro's uses their followthrough upwards.. they can hit a flat ball... We don't have the whole story... i think the wrist is doing a difference.. but i don't know how..

Mattle
05-30-2006, 04:06 AM
This one is also for Bungalo Bill:

My one hander im trying to make it more like my forehand. Because I'm at the certain stage, probably the same as you, where you have to HIT through the ball , and not push. Making a stable shot with forehand succeds when I make a certain swing path for the certain circumstances (place, opponents place, dirrection, pace, spin and height of ball, and of course wind :S) The thing that helps me is to bring the racquet down in follow through. The most pros and their onehandedbackhands are ending up and across on the follow through... can you do more like a wind shield wiper? i think It helps sometimes.

Some where we all miss something. Because when pro's uses their followthrough upwards.. they can hit a flat ball... We don't have the whole story... i think the wrist is doing a difference.. but i don't know how..

Mattle
05-30-2006, 04:06 AM
This one is also for Bungalo Bill:

My one hander im trying to make it more like my forehand. Because I'm at the certain stage, probably the same as you, where you have to HIT through the ball , and not push. Making a stable shot with forehand succeds when I make a certain swing path for the certain circumstances (place, opponents place, dirrection, pace, spin and height of ball, and of course wind :S) The thing that helps me is to bring the racquet down in follow through. The most pros and their onehandedbackhands are ending up and across on the follow through... can you do more like a wind shield wiper? i think It helps sometimes.

Some where we all miss something. Because when pro's uses their followthrough upwards.. they can hit a flat ball... We don't have the whole story... i think the wrist is doing a difference.. but i don't know how..

Mattle
05-30-2006, 04:06 AM
This one is also for Bungalo Bill:

My one hander im trying to make it more like my forehand. Because I'm at the certain stage, probably the same as you, where you have to HIT through the ball , and not push. Making a stable shot with forehand succeds when I make a certain swing path for the certain circumstances (place, opponents place, dirrection, pace, spin and height of ball, and of course wind :S) The thing that helps me is to bring the racquet down in follow through. The most pros and their onehandedbackhands are ending up and across on the follow through... can you do more like a wind shield wiper? i think It helps sometimes.

Some where we all miss something. Because when pro's uses their followthrough upwards.. they can hit a flat ball... We don't have the whole story... i think the wrist is doing a difference.. but i don't know how..

Bungalo Bill
05-30-2006, 09:32 AM
This one is also for Bungalo Bill:

My one hander im trying to make it more like my forehand. Because I'm at the certain stage, probably the same as you, where you have to HIT through the ball , and not push. Making a stable shot with forehand succeds when I make a certain swing path for the certain circumstances (place, opponents place, dirrection, pace, spin and height of ball, and of course wind :S) The thing that helps me is to bring the racquet down in follow through. The most pros and their onehandedbackhands are ending up and across on the follow through... can you do more like a wind shield wiper? i think It helps sometimes.

Some where we all miss something. Because when pro's uses their followthrough upwards.. they can hit a flat ball... We don't have the whole story... i think the wrist is doing a difference.. but i don't know how..

Holy Cow Mattle, you went crazy on that ENTER button.

Let's keep this simple, on the onehanded backhand, you can windshield wipe up the ball like nearly every pro does. You sort of lower the racquet head downward at the bottom of the swing and as you go back up the ball, you allow your racquet face to wipe up the back of the ball while going up, the racquet will finish off to the same side of the hitting arm.

The pros also go up through the ball and lengthen their swing. Actually in both cases, including the forehand, extension can be seem on nearly every stroke except those they are trying to finesse the ball some. The pros will also use the long L through the ball and use a sort of Nike Swoosh pattern or a combination of the Nike Swoosh and the Windshield wiper motion.

The trouble with introducing the windshield wiping motion is I feel it is more of an advanced move. There are players that grab it early and that is not a problem. But you do have to manage two things with your timing which I find most people can't. They have enough trouble htting the ball on time without introducing another rotational element.

Players need to learn to create topspin with their lower body, torso, and swing path first. I have a hard time budging from that because if you don't train the muscles to perform properly, they will have a difficult time firing correctly as you introduce more things to the swing.

inquisitive
05-30-2006, 10:16 AM
Any video clip of proper way to hit one hand backhand? I am also learning this. A 2handbh is just awkard for me and the 1handbh is more comfortable, but i want to learn properly. Thanks.

Mattle
05-30-2006, 12:30 PM
Holy Cow Mattle, you went crazy on that ENTER button.

Let's keep this simple, on the onehanded backhand, you can windshield wipe up the ball like nearly every pro does. You sort of lower the racquet head downward at the bottom of the swing and as you go back up the ball, you allow your racquet face to wipe up the back of the ball while going up, the racquet will finish off to the same side of the hitting arm.

The pros also go up through the ball and lengthen their swing. Actually in both cases, including the forehand, extension can be seem on nearly every stroke except those they are trying to finesse the ball some. The pros will also use the long L through the ball and use a sort of Nike Swoosh pattern or a combination of the Nike Swoosh and the Windshield wiper motion.

The trouble with introducing the windshield wiping motion is I feel it is more of an advanced move. There are players that grab it early and that is not a problem. But you do have to manage two things with your timing which I find most people can't. They have enough trouble htting the ball on time without introducing another rotational element.

Players need to learn to create topspin with their lower body, torso, and swing path first. I have a hard time budging from that because if you don't train the muscles to perform properly, they will have a difficult time firing correctly as you introduce more things to the swing.


Hehe sorry about that. Had no patience with the computer :P. I think i understand you. I think the thing I miss it lengthen my shot. Because earlier I viped too much with the backhand to practice it. I will try it. Ty bunga.. if you got more tips, you are welcome:)

Bungalo Bill
05-30-2006, 03:58 PM
Hehe sorry about that. Had no patience with the computer :P. I think i understand you. I think the thing I miss it lengthen my shot. Because earlier I viped too much with the backhand to practice it. I will try it. Ty bunga.. if you got more tips, you are welcome:)

Art first, learn to go through the ball and apply topspin with your form, body, swing path. As you get better, introduce the windshield wiping motion subtley. Dont go gangbusters trying to get this incredible topspin that no one has ever seen. :) Just rotate the arm while it is rising and still make clean contact with the ball. Always, always, always, favor clean contact.

habib
05-30-2006, 04:05 PM
A good pro can also review how you take the racquet back. Habib, a poster here, offered his video for analysis. His hitting hand path was taking the wrong path, although he made it work for him. After pointing out how he should take the racquet back using a different path, this stalled his development which is natural when someone is learning or relearning something.

Temporarily stalled it. ;-) It's firing very nicely now. I know I keep promising updated videos but my schedule is making it a righteous pain in the ***. Well, hopefully soon. :-p