PDA

View Full Version : Raymond slice backhand


eLterrible
05-30-2006, 11:52 AM
I was watching the FO today and lisa raymond's slice backhand was pretty sick. I noticed that her hitting arm is slightly bent when she hits, while when i attempt slice backhands my arm is almost straight and my racquet perpendicular to my forearm, is the reason for my sub-par slice backhand the fact that my whole arm is too straight? (elbow almost locked)

My slice backhands usually sail (i think it's because of an open face) or i shank it (overhitting?)

anyway, any feedback will help.

Rickson
05-30-2006, 11:53 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=102015

siber222000
05-30-2006, 11:59 AM
i watched her game against hingis for a little while, and i gotta admit, her slice backhand is good... very good indeed haha

cabernetjunkie
05-30-2006, 12:01 PM
Hey Rickson my computer is stuck in a mirror!!!!!!!;)

Rickson
05-30-2006, 12:44 PM
Hey Rickson my computer is stuck in a mirror!!!!!!!;)
Click on the other link and free your computer!

mirror (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=102015)

brucie
05-30-2006, 03:37 PM
i watched her game against hingis for a little while, and i gotta admit, her slice backhand is good... very good indeed haha

It seems fast for a slice and she cuts off the angled balls quick and early didnt help too much though really!

siber222000
05-30-2006, 04:24 PM
It seems fast for a slice and she cuts off the angled balls quick and early didnt help too much though really!
yeah hingis returned most of them, but some that she got winner from were pretty good

eLterrible
05-30-2006, 04:55 PM
i still need some tips and analysis of her backhand :confused:

paulfreda
05-30-2006, 07:42 PM
I love Raymond's slice BH.
I believe she hits it the same way I do, with a SWBH grip.
This is very awkward the first time you try it.
You have to fan it open in the bkswing to the point to putting pressure on your wrist.
But the results are worth it.
You get a driving slice that stays low and will often skid on the opponent.

The key to the shot is to never release your arm or wrist. This is because the face with a SW is so closed, you must keep it open throughout the shot. Very low balls require you to get low and be sure to get under the ball; not always easy if it is falling. Above the ankle, no problem.

You can get loads of pace by winding up and putting your back to the incoming ball.

Notice that Lisa can at the last moment change to topspin by simply dropping the racquet low and rolling her wrist into the ball from below. This pair of shots is one of the prettiest in all of tennis IMO.

However trying to beat Hingis with this shot is not a good strategy IMO. It is bascially playing defense which will never work against Ms. Backboard Martina.

Bungalo Bill
05-30-2006, 07:55 PM
I was watching the FO today and lisa raymond's slice backhand was pretty sick. I noticed that her hitting arm is slightly bent when she hits, while when i attempt slice backhands my arm is almost straight and my racquet perpendicular to my forearm, is the reason for my sub-par slice backhand the fact that my whole arm is too straight? (elbow almost locked)

My slice backhands usually sail (i think it's because of an open face) or i shank it (overhitting?)

anyway, any feedback will help.

Keep your wrist cocked, firm, and let your arm naturally unfold. Point the butt cap at the ball and swing. My reference for the slice is the top outside of the ball, that is what I want to hit.

Do not let your wrist go too soon and definetly not before contact or it will suck and be inconsistent. Drive from the shoulder. Have fun.

dmastous
05-30-2006, 09:57 PM
It's a very effective shot. Just not very effective on clay. It's a very simple and reliable shot. She also has a descent topspin backhand that she didn't use enought.
The issue with Lisa Raymond is her weight. I've not seen her play for a few years and I'm surprise at how thick she's gotten, especially in the arms & legs.

Slazenger
05-31-2006, 12:57 AM
I love Raymond's slice BH.
I believe she hits it the same way I do, with a SWBH grip.

Not at all. How can you look at her slice and say she hits it with a SWBH grip :confused:
Does her slice motion look like the motion one would have if they hit with a SWBH grip??

She certainly doesn't slice with a SWBH grip. Not only is it a poor grip for slicing it's horrible for touch/finesse shots like the dropshot.
She doesn't even hit her topspin BH with a SWBH grip.

She slices with a continental grip.

This is very awkward the first time you try it.
You have to fan it open in the bkswing to the point to putting pressure on your wrist.
But the results are worth it.
You get a driving slice that stays low and will often skid on the opponent.

You can hit an offensive slice like what you described above with a continental grip.
Because the wrist is in a comparatively weaker position than the regular forehand and BH grips, people at first usually have problems driving the slice with the continental grip and hit slices that pop up and sail.
You just have to keep the wrist cocked and firm, like B.Bill said, and knife through the ball.

Notice that Lisa can at the last moment change to topspin by simply dropping the racquet low and rolling her wrist into the ball from below. This pair of shots is one of the prettiest in all of tennis IMO.

It may look that way but it's not so. Lisa (and any other good player) has already decided whether she will go over the ball or slice it before the ball crosses the net.

paulfreda
05-31-2006, 08:01 PM
Not at all. How can you look at her slice and say she hits it with a SWBH grip :confused:
Does her slice motion look like the motion one would have if they hit with a SWBH grip??
Easy and Yes it does.


She certainly doesn't slice with a SWBH grip. Not only is it a poor grip for slicing it's horrible for touch/finesse shots like the dropshot.
She doesn't even hit her topspin BH with a SWBH grip.
She slices with a continental grip.

Sorry. You are dead wrong. I watched her beat Venus at Stanford a few years ago and was 8 feet from her. Maybe it is more Eastern than SW, but she is no way in a Continental.


It may look that way but it's not so. Lisa (and any other good player) has already decided whether she will go over the ball or slice it before the ball crosses the net.

You missed the point.
She has the option to change at the last minute without changing grips.
This does not mean she cannot decide earlier.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

Have a good day now .....

Slazenger
06-01-2006, 12:21 AM
Sorry. You are dead wrong. I watched her beat Venus at Stanford a few years ago and was 8 feet from her. Maybe it is more Eastern than SW, but she is no way in a Continental.

You missed the point.
She has the option to change at the last minute without changing grips.
This does not mean she cannot decide earlier.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

Have a good day now .....

Talk is cheap. Let's see what Lisa herself has to say shall we :rolleyes: :

CONTINENTAL (for slice)
http://www.advantage-tennis.com/raymond/504_1863.jpg

EASTERN BACKHAND (for topspin)
http://www.advantage-tennis.com/raymond/504_0836.jpg


And no I didn't miss the point. First of all she uses different grips for topspin and slice.
Secondly, If you take back for a slice and decide at the last minute to go over the ball you will be terribly late on the stroke. Lisa doesn't do this no matter what you think.

paulfreda
06-01-2006, 12:39 AM
Your talk is cheap !! That is because it appears to be a needless and impolite attack. It is one thing to disagree. It is quite another to do so without civility. You are an offensive person.

You show a jpeg and say it is what Lisa has to say. Hahahahah. One shot and you extrapolate to all her shots. Maybe you play rigidly with one and ONLY one grip, but I and almost all SWBHders switch to Cont on many balls, especially defensive balls. And I conceeded that she may be in a strong Eastern for her topspin. All my comments still hold. My observations of Lisa are born from great admiration for her classically beautiful game.

In the end, you seem to be supporting my comments.
So ...... Gee Slaz, thanks for making my point clear.

Slazenger
06-01-2006, 02:11 AM
You show a jpeg and say it is what Lisa has to say. Hahahahah. One shot and you extrapolate to all her shots.

If that is the case pls find a pic and post where Lisa is slicing with a SWBH grip. It took me 30 secs on a google search to find those pics I posted and there's at least a 100 more with her slicing with continental grips.
Something tells me you aren't going to find any with a SWBH grip :p .


Maybe you play rigidly with one and ONLY one grip, but I and almost all SWBHders switch to Cont on many balls, especially defensive balls.

I would certainly hope you switch to cont grip to hit quality slices, slice approaches, volleys and dropshots instead of the SWBH grip which is a poor grip for slice! Do you slice with a western forehand as well???

And I conceeded that she may be in a strong Eastern for her topspin. All my comments still hold. My observations of Lisa are born from great admiration for her classically beautiful game.

THis was your actual comment:
"Sorry. You are dead wrong. I watched her beat Venus at Stanford a few years ago and was 8 feet from her. Maybe it is more Eastern than SW, but she is no way in a Continental."
This is in reference to her slice. Stop changing your words dude.

Your observations are fallacious. You cannot have a good eye for tennis if you watch Lisa play and conclude that she slices with a SWBH grip. It's not even close. SHow your proof, I've showed mine.
(Or to be 'offensive' as you say :mad: : Put up or shut up )