PDA

View Full Version : Too many muscles?


dmastous
05-31-2006, 08:08 AM
I'm watching the Monfils/Murray match (I know I'm a little behind) and Gael Monfils is looking ripped. I'm curious if this isn't really best for his tennis.
Added muscles won't really add much to his game. But it will be added weight to drag around the court, and more muscles can result in muscle and ligament strains. Nadal is pretty cut too, but Monfils has a longer frame and long muscles. He looks heavier than is necessary. He's walking around with a slow hang dog look like he's ready to collapse.
Seems to me the ideal frame would be long and lean with wiry strength not muscular strength, like Gustavo Kuerten or Yannick Noah.

BaseLineBash
05-31-2006, 08:56 AM
Yeah, Gael is very toned but not bulky, so I think it would help him. Rafa is bulky and it seems to suit his game fine. A players frame can be misleading, look at Roger...he's very strong, but you can't really tell until he stands next to somebody, he has a large torso, chest and calves. Agassi has a very strong upper body and it doesn't get in the way of movement or groundstrokes.

chess9
05-31-2006, 09:43 AM
Most NBA players are built like Monfils. His build seems appropriate for his size and it didn't limit his ability to beat a very good player in 5 sets.

-Robert

Custom+Hybrid
05-31-2006, 03:46 PM
I think he need to realize that he is a tennis player and not try to buff up too much.

And btw he doesnt have to many muscles, I have the same number!

Cyclops
05-31-2006, 04:09 PM
I can see the sense in not being too heavy, because there is alot of running around to do and agility is essential. And if you look at a lot of runners they are pretty lean rather than bulky. But maybe if you can serve a ball hard enough that your opponent never gets the chance to return it, you've got somthing going for you too! But I guess the proof is in the pudding.

superman1
05-31-2006, 04:19 PM
Monfils is all out of proportion. His arms are totally ripped, but his shoulders are about as wide as a little girl's. He doesn't have a really big game like Nadal, so it seems to be for nothing. The shoulders and chest are more important than the arms, just look at Agassi. He has regular sized toned arms and a very broad chest. Federer also has broad shoulders and skinny twig arms, and he can rip the ball faster than anyone.

Moose Malloy
05-31-2006, 04:29 PM
Most NBA players are built like Monfils. His build seems appropriate for his size and it didn't limit his ability to beat a very good player in 5 sets.


He's listed as 6'4, 177. All NBA point guards weigh at least 30/40 ilbs more than that(& we're talking all muscle)

I understand that Nadal/Monfils appear like studs standing next to guys like Federer. But if they were standing next to NBA(or college bball) players they would look very puny.

I'm watching the Monfils/Murray match (I know I'm a little behind) and Gael Monfils is looking ripped. I'm curious if this isn't really best for his tennis.
Added muscles won't really add much to his game. But it will be added weight to drag around the court, and more muscles can result in muscle and ligament strains.

I constantly hear that all the time, tennis players don't need muscles, it slows them down. Have you seen NBA guards/forwards? Huge, strong guys who are so much faster than any tennis player. Guess no one told them "muscles slow you down."
Not to mention the olympic champs in 100/200/meters. Those guys make Monfils look like he's anorexic.

I think we're all just used to tennis players looking like a Federer. But there's no reason pro tennis players can't look like better athletes. Because the sport doesn't draw the cream of the athletic crop, we think tennis players should look a certain way.

superman1
05-31-2006, 04:37 PM
Basketball is a hard comparison to make. Tennis is mostly side-to-side motion, a lot of long strides. Basketball is more about charging and making really quick, short movements. Those guys need to be big and strong to plow through a bunch of other guys their size. Put Jordan out on a tennis court and teach him how to strike a ball perfectly, he's not going to be hitting any harder than Federer. The ball can only be hit so hard with the equipment we have today. The pros we have now are perfectly designed for the sport, and none of them have time to build themselves up into a machine - the offseason is only one month!

dandy2fast
05-31-2006, 05:01 PM
He's listed as 6'4, 177. All NBA point guards weigh at least 30/40 ilbs more than that(& we're talking all muscle)

I understand that Nadal/Monfils appear like studs standing next to guys like Federer. But if they were standing next to NBA(or college bball) players they would look very puny.



I constantly hear that all the time, tennis players don't need muscles, it slows them down. Have you seen NBA guards/forwards? Huge, strong guys who are so much faster than any tennis player. Guess no one told them "muscles slow you down."
Not to mention the olympic champs in 100/200/meters. Those guys make Monfils look like he's anorexic.

I think we're all just used to tennis players looking like a Federer. But there's no reason pro tennis players can't look like better athletes. Because the sport doesn't draw the cream of the athletic crop, we think tennis players should look a certain way.

Lots of misconceptions in your post about some points, like comparative physical aptitudes between tennis players and NBA guards/forwards <how can you say that one kind of athletes is faster than the other, and how can you prove it?>, and when you say that "the sport <tennis> doesn't draw the cream of the athletic crop" it is a very self centered american point of view, it might be true inside the USA <but not sure at all that you are right to think that way, when we take in account the fact that Jim Courier have been tested as the best overall athlete from the 1992 american olympic delegation of athletes for barcelona>, but in many other countries, tennis is actually as attractive for the athletes as any other sport, and even if the USA wouldn't provide his share of "best athletes" to the sport of tennis, a good protion of the rest of the world does, so it is impossible for you to imply that tennis should have less good athletes due to a lesser attractivity, because that lesser attractivity is just your imagination. And anyway you can't compare NBA players and tennis players and say that there are better athletes in one sport than in the other, differents sports ask for different physical aptitudes, so basket ball players and tennis players have different qualities that suit to their specifics sport, and it is poinless to try to make a comparison.

dmastous
05-31-2006, 06:17 PM
I constantly hear that all the time, tennis players don't need muscles, it slows them down. Have you seen NBA guards/forwards? Huge, strong guys who are so much faster than any tennis player. Guess no one told them "muscles slow you down."
Not to mention the olympic champs in 100/200/meters. Those guys make Monfils look like he's anorexic.
I think we're all just used to tennis players looking like a Federer. But there's no reason pro tennis players can't look like better athletes. Because the sport doesn't draw the cream of the athletic crop, we think tennis players should look a certain way.

I guess I should change tack a bit in this discussion. I will say that Monfils looked tired and it does appear he's carrying more muscle weight than necessary. I won't back off that, but It's not the direction my point should have taken. I would not say that tennis players aren't strong. Far from it.
I would bring up two points. Keeping in mind I'm not a physician or a biologist (but I did stay a Motel 6 once :rolleyes: )
First, It seems to me that muscle mass is heavier than normal body mass. I don't know that, but I am assuming that. So that goes towards what I said in the beginning.
Second, the arm muscles are not the most important component in hitting a tennis ball hard. The arm is only directing the racquet through the hitting zone. Power comes from the legs, core and upper body, and that's where the strength needs to be. Power can come from the arms in the form of kinetic energy that comes from whipping the arm through the hitting zone. The arms need to be flexible. Bigger muscles aren't that flexible.
So what good are guns in the arms if you arn't going to need them, and they will just inhibit your flexibility?
Federer, as an example, has strong legs and a strong core and wirey, arms that allow him to maximize his potential as a tennis player, while not wasting too much energy carrying around unnecsessary muscle weight.
I can see that strengthening the arms can reduce injuries and that's a good thing, but again strengthening the arms doesn't always mean being cut and muscular. Also, it seems to me that bulging muscles will be more likely to lead to ligament damage. So the bad may just outweight the good.

vinky
05-31-2006, 07:32 PM
I think tennis pros in general are becoming athletic. Nobody's going to dispute that. As for getting "too strong", I don't think anyone has to worry about that. I think added strength helps in durability, recovery, and injury prevention. Is this not discrimination towards strong ppl?? (jk).

Strong guys can be nimble and quick too :D

superman1
05-31-2006, 07:36 PM
You have to be an unbelievably good athlete to be at the top of tennis. At LEAST as good an athlete as a basketball player, who play in teams and don't even play all 4 quarters. Even Nadal said he liked soccer better as a kid because it was a team sport and fun, but he chose tennis because it was harder and more challenging.

dandy2fast
06-01-2006, 05:09 AM
High level Tennis is actually a sport that demands one of the highest level of polyvalence of physical aptitude.

dandy2fast
06-01-2006, 05:14 AM
High level Tennis is actually a sport that demands one of the highest level of polyvalence of physical aptitude.

chess9
06-01-2006, 06:00 AM
He's listed as 6'4, 177. All NBA point guards weigh at least 30/40 ilbs more than that(& we're talking all muscle)

I understand that Nadal/Monfils appear like studs standing next to guys like Federer. But if they were standing next to NBA(or college bball) players they would look very puny.



I constantly hear that all the time, tennis players don't need muscles, it slows them down. Have you seen NBA guards/forwards? Huge, strong guys who are so much faster than any tennis player. Guess no one told them "muscles slow you down."
Not to mention the olympic champs in 100/200/meters. Those guys make Monfils look like he's anorexic.

I think we're all just used to tennis players looking like a Federer. But there's no reason pro tennis players can't look like better athletes. Because the sport doesn't draw the cream of the athletic crop, we think tennis players should look a certain way.

Great post. I totally agree. I only meant to say that he is built more like an NBA guard. Some actually are about his size, though the tendency is towards more beef. Plus those guys run much more than tennis players. I also thought of sprinters. 100 meter guys are often very muscled in their upper bodies.

Anyway, this idea that tennis players need to be built like drought stricken weeds is nonsense. I've always carried much more weight in my upper body than most of the guys I play with, but I don't think that's my limiter. Of course, if you have no talent, it doesn't matter how you're built. :)

-Robert

chrisplchs
06-01-2006, 06:36 AM
NBA point guards don't weigh 210 or 220 when they are 6 ft 4.

I know this because Jordan is 6 ft 6 and weighs around 215. Lets look at the best few point guards in the NBA: Sam Cassel is 6 ft 3, 182, Nash is about the same and Tony Parker weighs even less.

NBA points guards do weigh more but not by 30 or 40 pounds as you said. Explosiveness and fast twitch muscles are important in tennis but not as important as they are in the NBA. There is more emphasis on 5-10 yards sprints over and over again in tennis as well as endurance. Thus, muscle mass growth is hindered when training specifically for tennis.

But also, what do you mean by faster? do you mean quicker or better acceleration or top speed?
Very rarely do you see players running at top speed because there isn't the room to get there. Why do you think Steve Nash looks so fast? If he were to run the 100 meter or 200 meter dash against the NBA, the only people he would beat would be the centers like Shaq and the cripples. Nash is slow compared to other point guards in terms of sheer top speed, but has unbelieveable acceleration as well as great footwork to change directions on a dime. Also, most NBA players aren't that strong. I remember in the NBA combine two or three years ago and when Kirk Hinrich benched 185, 7 times, it was considered to be an awesome accomplishment and when TJ Ford couldn't bench 150 lbs, then scouts said it was okay.

Strength conditioning is important to tennis players but one doesn't want to look like TO as that kind of muscle mass hinders development.

Return_Ace
06-01-2006, 06:55 AM
Not to mention the olympic champs in 100/200/meters. Those guys make Monfils look like he's anorexic.

yeah, but i doubt that 100m sprinters can go for a 3 - 5 set tennis match. It's trying to get the balance of the muscle - weight ratio depending on what sport you do.