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The Dav
06-04-2006, 05:37 PM
That's it, two...

One about a retired player and the other about a commercial, and this during a Grand Slam tournament, I'm sorry, is this an ATP discussion board, or a TENNIS board? I'm confused :confused:

All I see is thread after thread on Federer, I'm sorry, this is a serious point, where is the love for the women who work just as hard? There's a another tournament going on! Characters like Venus, Henin, Clijsters and Hingis are still in, and today Mauresmo and Sharapova were eliminated, but none of you seem interested, oh well :rolleyes:

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 05:46 PM
That's it, two...

One about a retired player and the other about a commercial, and this during a Grand Slam tournament, I'm sorry, is this an ATP discussion board, or a TENNIS board? I'm confused :confused:

All I see is thread after thread on Federer, I'm sorry, this is a serious point, where is the love for the women who work just as hard? There's a another tournament going on! Characters like Venus, Henin, Clijsters and Hingis are still in, and today Mauresmo and Sharapova were eliminated, but none of you seem interested, oh well :rolleyes:

In some ways I wanted to agree with you, but then I simply thought:

If you, and maybe I, and maybe others, think this....then you, and I, and any others - should start posting more threads about the women's game and then maybe we'll reply and then and then.... :)

The Dav
06-04-2006, 05:49 PM
In some ways I wanted to agree with you, but then I simply thought:

If you, and maybe I, and maybe others, think this....then you, and I, and any others - should start posting more threads about the women's game and then maybe we'll reply and then and then.... :)

:D True, but I'm new ;)

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 05:50 PM
That's it, two...

One about a retired player and the other about a commercial, and this during a Grand Slam tournament, I'm sorry, is this an ATP discussion board, or a TENNIS board? I'm confused :confused:

All I see is thread after thread on Federer, I'm sorry, this is a serious point, where is the love for the women who work just as hard? There's a another tournament going on! Characters like Venus, Henin, Clijsters and Hingis are still in, and today Mauresmo and Sharapova were eliminated, but none of you seem interested, oh well :rolleyes:

I'm sure there are wheelchair tennis competitions going on as we speak. Why doesn't anyone focus on them? Don't they work hard?

It's about excellence, and although I love women I'd rather watch the game at the highest level than some women in skimpy costumes flailing around. If I wanted to see women I'd spend time with my girlfriend or watch porn.

dmastous
06-04-2006, 05:53 PM
The discussions go where the people take them. There is no pressure,that I've seen, to stop WTA posts when they start. Thought it was pretty ridiculous a few months ago having about 6 concurrant running Steffi Graf/Monica Seles battles. You are welcome to start any thread you want.
As you have done here.:p

The Dav
06-04-2006, 05:57 PM
I'm sure there are wheelchair tennis competitions going on as we speak. Why doesn't anyone focus on them? Don't they work hard?

It's about excellence, and although I love women I'd rather watch the game at the highest level than some women in skimpy costumes flailing around. If I wanted to see women I'd spend time with my girlfriend or watch porn.

So you only view women as sex objects, I'm sorry, but is your girlfriend a blow-up doll? No offence :D

You can't expect wheelchair tennis to be a central focus on a tennis board, as it hasn't got the exposure that the men's game and the women's game have, I'm sure you all heard about what happened, but no-one is bothered to discuss any of it? I'm a member of many tennis forums, and this one is the worst when it comes to discussing a wide range of tennis-related issues, I'm sorry :)

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 05:57 PM
:D True, but I'm new ;)

Hey, so am I... and I'm thinking about which women's thread to start right now :)

The Dav
06-04-2006, 05:59 PM
Hey, so am I... and I'm thinking about which women's thread to start right now :)

Go for it! :D It might push one of the dozen Federer threads off the first page :rolleyes:

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 06:03 PM
So you only view women as sex objects, I'm sorry, but is your girlfriend a blow-up doll? No offence :D

You can't expect wheelchair tennis to be a central focus on a tennis board, as it hasn't got the exposure that the men's game and the women's game have, I'm sure you all heard about what happened, but no-one is bothered to discuss any of it? I'm a member of many tennis forums, and this one is the worst when it comes to discussing a wide range of issues, I'm sorry :)

No, it isn't about sex at all. You misunderstand me.

It's about skill. The world goes crazy over college sports but it doesn't interest me because I'd rather watch NBA or NFL or whatever. Why watch micky mouse competitions when I can watch the real deal? If I like tennis why would I bother following any other tour except the ATP? If women played better than men I would gladly follow them. Simple as that.

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:07 PM
No, it isn't about sex at all. You misunderstand me.

It's about skill. The world goes crazy over college sports but it doesn't interest me because I'd rather watch NBA or NFL or whatever. Why watch micky mouse competitions when I can watch the real deal? If I like tennis why would I bother following any other tour except the ATP? If women played better than men I would gladly follow them. Simple as that.

Sorry, your porn comment was a tad misleading :rolleyes:

So I take it you only watch matches featuring Federer and Nadal then, them playing the highest quality tennis? I mean why watch players like Davydenko and Ljubicic, when there's Fed and Nadal around, right? :D

slice bh compliment
06-04-2006, 06:08 PM
...where is the love for the women who work just as hard?...

SO MUCH of love for the women (on so many levels).
SO MUCH love for the tennis!
Just not so much love for the women's tennis.

Sorry. For me, it is less about standard of play...more about style of play.

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Why watch micky mouse competitions when I can watch the real deal? If I like tennis why would I bother following any other tour except the ATP? If women played better than men I would gladly follow them. Simple as that.

Hmm, i have so many thoughts here. I actually was chatting about these issues with a friend the other night while watching the FO.

Being a message board, and not real-life, instead of posting all of the valid and balanced opinions we discussed, instead I choose to post something more out-there :P ....

How about the fact that (maybe) I feel I have more to learn by watching women's tennis?. I'm a 6 foot plus guy who hits the ball hard, but I still can't learn much by watching fed-nadal, simply because they play at a level that is so far removed from my game it's just ridculous (hey - i love watching them, but yeah :). Now instead, when I watch Hingis-Henin-etc, I feel like there's more to learn that's more relevant to my game....maybe :).

FaSteStSeRvE1613
06-04-2006, 06:12 PM
The Dav,
no offense, but see, the reason women's tennis isnt discussed is because it simply sucks. Thats just all there is to it

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 06:13 PM
For me, it is less about standard of play...more about style of play.

Why can't style of play be one element of standard of play? Ie. standard does not simply get judged on power! (And hey, I actually agree with your main point as it is - i'm just taking it one step further).

slice bh compliment
06-04-2006, 06:16 PM
It can.
Absolutely.
It not the lack of power in women's tennis that I think is substandard. It is the lack of variety.

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:16 PM
The Dav,
no offense, but see, the reason women's tennis isnt discussed is because it simply sucks. Thats just all there is to it

Really? So why does it exist? There must be a market for it? As the WTA tour is almost completely dependant of the ATP tour, and yet they manage to sell out venues and secure TV contracts, now why would anyone want to go see something that 'sucks'? Maybe because it doesn't and the issue with just with you?

I'm thinking the latter :D

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 06:16 PM
Sorry, your porn comment was a tad misleading :rolleyes:

Well, not really. You'd have to agree that sex appeal (more than talent) is used to market women sports to males - a highly attractive demographic that has plenty of disposable income and time. I don't care for that kind of marketing because, like I said, I'd rather have sex with my girlfriend or watch porn.

So I take it you only watch matches featuring Federer and Nadal then, them playing the highest quality tennis? I mean why watch players like Davydenko and Ljubicic, when there's Fed and Nadal around, right? :D

Now you're being facetious. The ATP tour on the whole has the best standard of tennis around, which is why I follow it. If it were the WTA, I'd switch allegiances in a second.

skip1969
06-04-2006, 06:17 PM
well, there are a lot of silly threads, sure. but i think the women have really taken a back seat, at least during the coverage on tv this weekend. i guess there aren't as many compelling stories for the networks to push. they've really been riding the nadal/fed thing, and james blake. the hingis comeback is a very distant third.

perhaps that explains why nobody is talking about the women. for the most part, the draw has gone to form, too. hopefully, now that we're in the second week there will be more to discuss.

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:19 PM
well, there are a lot of silly threads, sure. but i think the women have really taken a back seat, at least during the coverage on tv this weekend. i guess there aren't as many compelling stories for the networks to push. they've really been riding the nadal/fed thing, and james blake. the hingis comeback is a very distant third.

perhaps that explains why nobody is talking about the women. for the most part, the draw has gone to form, too. hopefully, now that we're in the second week there will be more to discuss.

Hold on, the Hingis comeback is a distant third from the 'James Blake thing', what 'thing' is that exactly??? :confused:

Or maybe this is an American's point of view :rolleyes:

Also, rest assured, people are talking about the women, just not on this board for some reason :confused: I'd like to know why...

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 06:21 PM
So I take it you only watch matches featuring Federer and Nadal then, them playing the highest quality tennis? I mean why watch players like Davydenko and Ljubicic, when there's Fed and Nadal around, right? :D

Well, actually, Fed is currently ranked higher than Nadal, so I only watch Federer play, I stick a piece of paper over the screen that has Nadal or anyone else on it, and at matches I wear sunglasses with one blacked-out-side. That way, I am watching the absolute highest quality tennis ;)

That said, there is a wall near where I play that it's rumoured federer could not beat. If this is truly the case, my allegiances will switch to the wall.

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 06:22 PM
Hmm, i have so many thoughts here. I actually was chatting about these issues with a friend the other night while watching the FO.

Being a message board, and not real-life, instead of posting all of the valid and balanced opinions we discussed, instead I choose to post something more out-there :P ....

How about the fact that (maybe) I feel I have more to learn by watching women's tennis?. I'm a 6 foot plus guy who hits the ball hard, but I still can't learn much by watching fed-nadal, simply because they play at a level that is so far removed from my game it's just ridculous (hey - i love watching them, but yeah :). Now instead, when I watch Hingis-Henin-etc, I feel like there's more to learn that's more relevant to my game....maybe :).

I see your point.

But would you rather watch Michael Jordan or Lisa Leslie? Would you rather watch a NBA game or a WNBA game? Please be honest.

skip1969
06-04-2006, 06:24 PM
i'm not disagreeing with you, the dav. i'm jsut saying that espn and nbs have been hyping the potential nadal/fed final to death. and (as blake was the last american man in the draw) they've been re-hashing the "james blake is a wonderful guy and just look at all the s**t he's been through" story. but as far as women's stories are concerned, the hingis comeback has not gotten as much play. still, it's really the only women's "story" they've bothered to pursue.

slice bh compliment
06-04-2006, 06:27 PM
Interesting point. I'd watch Jordan.
Tennistically speaking, I'd watch Federer, Blake, Gasquet, Sampras, Becker, Goran, Nadal et al. And I would watch them even more if they looked like Dokic, Kirilenko, Temesvari, Jana Kandarr and Gabbi Sabatini.

skip1969
06-04-2006, 06:27 PM
by the way, the dav, if there is a board out there that's got some intelligent discussion about the game going on . . . please, let me know. (seriously)

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:28 PM
i'm not disagreeing with you, the dav. i'm jsut saying that espn and nbs have been hyping the potential nadal/fed final to death. and (as blake was the last american man in the draw) they've been re-hashing the "james blake is a wonderful guy and just look at all the s**t he's been through" story. but as far as women's stories are concerned, the hingis comeback has not gotten as much play. still, it's really the only women's "story" they've bothered to pursue.

I see skip, well maybe now that Venus is the last American left, there'll be more coverage ;)

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 06:31 PM
I see your point.

But would you rather watch Michael Jordan or Lisa Leslie? Would you rather watch a NBA game or a WNBA game? Please be honest.

Well, I'm not a BBall fan at all, but I do see your point nonetheless too. I spent some time arguing with my mate on your side of the debate too, so I do agree with some of it, I'm just choosing to post some of my thoughts on the other-side today.

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:31 PM
by the way, the dav, if there is a board out there that's got some intelligent discussion about the game going on . . . please, let me know. (seriously)

You should try the BBC tennis board skip, I'm a regular over there, and we're very fair in our dedication to men's and women's issues...

tpduke112
06-04-2006, 06:31 PM
If you want women threads, start them. Obviously, there arent any right now, because none of us care about womens tennis.

skip1969
06-04-2006, 06:33 PM
I see skip, well maybe now that Venus is the last American left, there'll be more coverage ;)
to be honest, i find the fact that vaidisova, groenefeld and safina have gotten this far, much more interesting. and how the new school girls will do against the old school girls (williams, hingis, hardenne, cljisters).

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:35 PM
If you want women threads, start them. Obviously, there arent any right now, because none of us care about womens tennis.

Why? :confused:

And I agree skip, it's great to see new names emerge on the big stage...

tpduke112
06-04-2006, 06:36 PM
Why? :confused:

And I agree skip, it's great to see new names emerge on the big stage...
I dont care because I think it is boring. I dont mind watching the Henin-Hardenne's that have a somewhat stylish game. Heck, I dont even like watching alot of men's tennis when they hit 2-handed backhands.....I dont know, I just think it is much more boring looking.

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:38 PM
I dont care because I think it is boring.

I think that response is boring :)

Sorry, you've since elaborated, fair enough ;)

tpduke112
06-04-2006, 06:42 PM
I think that response is boring :)

Sorry, you've since elaborated, fair enough ;)
lol, I accidentally hit tab-enter and submitted before I was finished.

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 06:43 PM
I think that response is boring :)

Sorry, you've since elaborated, fair enough ;)

In all fairness, I should admit that I also love watching JHH. I'd firebomb an orphanage to get a backhand like that!

The Dav
06-04-2006, 06:45 PM
In all fairness, I should admit that I also love watching JHH. I'd firebomb an orphanage to get a backhand like that!

Ah, so I've atleast got some praise out of you ;) That's good :)

tpduke112
06-04-2006, 06:48 PM
In all fairness, I should admit that I also love watching JHH. I'd firebomb an orphanage to get a backhand like that!
Agreed. Her last match where she was playing that girl with a 1hbh similar to hers was a good match. I was interested in it, unlike most womens matches.

slice bh compliment
06-04-2006, 06:51 PM
I dont care because I think it is boring. I dont mind watching the Henin-Hardenne's that have a somewhat stylish game. Heck, I dont even like watching alot of men's tennis when they hit 2-handed backhands.....I dont know, I just think it is much more boring looking.

Generally, yeah, I feel that as well.

Goes w/o saying, I love Henin and Mauresmo. To a lesser degree, Hingis. Not enough, really.

Topaz
06-04-2006, 06:51 PM
As one of the few women on this board, I usually post things on the match results board. I may get a few answers, but it seems most would rather re-hash Fed/Nad for the billionth time.

I also get tired of hearing the men, who say they don't watch the game, trash it. If you don't watch it, how can you judge it? Just a thought...

And, like someone already stated, as a woman who plays tennis, I find I get much more out of watching women play than men. Do I watch the men as well? Yes. Do I get frustrated watching a match on TV for the second time on tape delay while a live three set women's match involving the number #1 seed is being played? You bet.

I would like to see more variety on the women's tour, but it is certainly there, you just have to look for it. It is the games of H-H, Mauresmo, Hingis, Schiavone, Schnyder, and even Clijsters at times. But it is hard to find them and watch them when coverage is dedicated to the one dimensional games of the heavy hitters who happen to be pretty and blonde.

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 06:52 PM
Ah, so I've atleast got some praise out of you ;) That's good :)

Hey, I'm not some chauvinistic *****. It's always been about talent.

I really don't like the Bollettieri style of mindless power tennis that women (and many male) players these days have adopted. I cringe every time I see Sharapova play. This is why it was a pleasure to see Hingis back - she's a genius!

Plus I only have so much time to pursue my diversions and as a result, ATP gets priority.

slice bh compliment
06-04-2006, 06:55 PM
...I would like to see more variety on the women's tour, but it is certainly there, you just have to look for it. It is the games of H-H, Mauresmo, Hingis, Schiavone, Schnyder, and even Clijsters at times. ...

Patty Schnyder. Great call! [cuCkoo, cuckoo, cuckoo]
Nice player, though.

Rita Grande, Emilie Loit, Schiavone, Sylvia Farina. Love 'em. Who's with me?

[crickets]

dubsplayer
06-04-2006, 06:57 PM
If you want women threads, start them. Obviously, there arent any right now, because none of us care about womens tennis.

Or go to WTAWorld. It's only about the women on that board.

StrangeAttractor
06-04-2006, 07:01 PM
As one of the few women on this board, I usually post things on the match results board. I may get a few answers, but it seems most would rather re-hash Fed/Nad for the billionth time.



We're talking history here. Talent like Fed's comes less frequently than the freaking Haley's comet. Tenniswise, we're lucky that we can witness this goddamn miracle! So, please give us some leeway if we go overboard in Fed/Nadal discussions.

OrangeOne
06-04-2006, 07:08 PM
We're talking history here. Talent like Fed's comes less frequently than the freaking Haley's comet. Tenniswise, we're lucky that we can witness this goddamn miracle! So, please give us some leeway if we go overboard in Fed/Nadal discussions.

I'd have no problems with the "overboard" discussions on fed-nadal if more of them were based in thought & analysis, and not of the "Fed's better than Nadal 'cos I like Fed" / "Nadal will win the French becuase I like Nadal" variety.

Then again, I'm looking for thought and analysis in the average post on a message board? Anyone have a haystack, I think I want to go searching for some needles ;).

superman1
06-04-2006, 07:32 PM
I find women's tennis very boring. Yet I'd rather watch a Martina Hingis match than many men's matches. Henin-Hardenne, Clijsters, Mauresmo...it's just boring to watch. There are less great points and everything moves a lot slower. 3 shot rallies then someone hits out, then wait 2 minutes for the next point to start.

skip1969
06-04-2006, 07:47 PM
I'd have no problems with the "overboard" discussions on fed-nadal if more of them were based in thought & analysis, and not of the "Fed's better than Nadal 'cos I like Fed" / "Nadal will win the French becuase I like Nadal" variety.

Then again, I'm looking for thought and analysis in the average post on a message board? Anyone have a haystack, I think I want to go searching for some needles ;).
true, true. so many times on here personal feelings and emotion completely override logic, common sense, clear rational thought . . .

i mean, it's good to have passion. but some sense would be nice, too. especially when trying to make a point.

Max G.
06-04-2006, 08:40 PM
Patty Schnyder. Great call! [cuCkoo, cuckoo, cuckoo]
Nice player, though.

Rita Grande, Emilie Loit, Schiavone, Sylvia Farina. Love 'em. Who's with me?

[crickets]

I'm with ya ;)

Those are fun gals to watch. Henin, Mauresmo, Hingis as well.

Yours!05
06-04-2006, 09:24 PM
Here in Oz, if you have Foxtel cable/satellite the FO coverage begins at 7 PM with 2 or 3 women's matches. Presume this is so they can show the main men's match of the Paris morning in our prime time 8:30. So we are seeing plenty of women's matches and for anyone who's interested many of the highly ranked seem oddly disengaged. Even Williams is not playing as though she'd rather die than lose. Ana Ivanovic showed up fat. Molik had a chance against Sharapova but blew it - for reasons many ppl are aware of.
Clijsters is one playing almost at her best so the field is wide open for her, or Hingis, or even a dark horse like Safina to come through. It will go to whoever wants it most.
Might be an Aussie thing, but I like women's tennis.
Have seen some awful dirtballing men's matches but IMO the best match since the AO was Nadal - Mathieu. Nothing even close from the women - so far.

Egalite
06-04-2006, 10:22 PM
I wonder why the BBC coverage yesterday showed 3 women's matches (Sharapova v Safina, Clijsters v Hantuchova & Henin-Hardenne v Myskina) against 1 men's (Federer v Berdych). I wonder why Sony Ericsson chose to sponsor the WTA and not the ATP.

Might it be that everyone apart from tennis geeks prefers to watch women's tennis?

superman1
06-04-2006, 10:26 PM
There's also a reason why photos of the female players sometimes get on the front page of Yahoo News, and men's pictures never do. People just like seeing women in the sun wearing skirts hitting tennis balls around. They don't care about the quality of the match. I like watching Hingis because she never misses, but most of the women just hit too many unforced errors. Either that, or they have no personality on the court (i.e. Henin-Hardenne the robot).

Topaz
06-05-2006, 05:37 PM
We're talking history here. Talent like Fed's comes less frequently than the freaking Haley's comet. Tenniswise, we're lucky that we can witness this goddamn miracle! So, please give us some leeway if we go overboard in Fed/Nadal discussions.

Heh, heh...leeway granted, and I agree with you about Federer.