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View Full Version : With Monica Seles not in field who are contenders for Wimbledon?


federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 12:12 PM
It looks like Monica Seles wont be entering Wimbledon this year, that she is not quite ready to make her comeback and it is nearing the point she wont return. With her out the womens field seems wide open, who are some of the contenders with Monica Seles not playing.

ACE of Hearts
06-10-2006, 12:25 PM
Venus, Sharapova, Hardenne, Hingis, some contenders.The top 2 are Venus and Sharapova, assuming Sharapova is healthy.

HollerOne5
06-10-2006, 12:26 PM
This thread is a joke, right?

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 12:29 PM
My groups right now are:

Favorites-Mauresmo, Venus, Henin
Solid contenders-Sharapova, Davenport, Clijsters,
potential threats-Hingis, Vaidisova, Kuznetsova, Petrova
dark horses-Myskina, Dementieva, Hantuchova, Ivanovic

Condoleezza
06-10-2006, 01:06 PM
My groups right now are:

Favorites-Mauresmo, Venus, Henin
Solid contenders-Sharapova, Davenport, Clijsters,
potential threats-Hingis, Vaidisova, Kuznetsova, Petrova
dark horses-Myskina, Dementieva, Hantuchova, Ivanovic


If Kwan is your favourie female athlete, why do you hope she won't win a medal? :confused:

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 01:12 PM
If Kwan is your favourie female athlete, why do you hope she won't win a medal? :confused:

Irina is my favorite, not Kwan, both are pretty much retired now though so I will remove my sig.

gully
06-10-2006, 01:53 PM
To answer the OP's query:

The same gals who would be contenders if Seles were in the field, that's who.

What on earth did you mean with this thread? Or did it somehow surface from the 1992 archives?

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 02:03 PM
Well if she were making a comeback she would be read and much fitter
then when she last played and she certainly would be one of the favorites to win Wimbledon, if not the favorite even. Her groundstrokes are still the very best in womens tennis, and when she is fit she is very fast around the court, her volleying is adequate, and her return of serve is the best ever in womens tenis, her mental toughness one of the best ever seen, and her lefty slice serve deceptively effective on grass. Monica always was a contender from her return in mid 95 until her last match in mid 2003. The only thing that kept her from winning more then 1 Grand Slam was injuries, never fully commiting to being fully fit again, and the-then consistent power hitters. The power hitters are not as consistent anymore, she would have to be fit like she was in the early 90s to return since she would now know she needs to be fit not just to play her best but to ward off injuries, and not have the wear and tear that led to so many nagging minor injuries.

Monica Seles owns 9 Grand Slams, the most of any player. She has a win on grass over 9-time Wimbledon Champion Martina Navratilova, a bigger win then any of todays current women have ever managed on grass. She reached a Wimbledon final at 18, something none of todays current women except for Hingis have managed.

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 02:05 PM
Well if she were making a comeback she would be read and much fitter
then when she last played and she certainly would be one of the favorites to win Wimbledon, if not the favorite even. Her groundstrokes are still the very best in womens tennis, and when she is fit she is very fast around the court, her volleying is adequate, and her return of serve is the best ever in womens tenis, her mental toughness one of the best ever seen, and her lefty slice serve deceptively effective on grass. Monica always was a contender from her return in mid 95 until her last match in mid 2003. The only thing that kept her from winning more then 1 Grand Slam was injuries, never fully commiting to being fully fit again, and the-then consistent power hitters. The power hitters are not as consistent anymore, she would have to be fit like she was in the early 90s to return since she would now know she needs to be fit not just to play her best but to ward off injuries, and not have the wear and tear that led to so many nagging minor injuries.

Monica Seles owns 9 Grand Slams, the most of any player. She has a win on grass over 9-time Wimbledon Champion Martina Navratilova, a bigger win then any of todays current women have ever managed on grass. She reached a Wimbledon final at 18, something none of todays current women except for Hingis have managed.

Yeah and you know what happened in that final. Come on federerhoogeband fan this thread is so not like you.

Condoleezza
06-10-2006, 02:13 PM
Well if she were making a comeback she would be read and much fitter
then when she last played and she certainly would be one of the favorites to win Wimbledon, if not the favorite even. Her groundstrokes are still the very best in womens tennis, and when she is fit she is very fast around the court, her volleying is adequate, and her return of serve is the best ever in womens tenis, her mental toughness one of the best ever seen, and her lefty slice serve deceptively effective on grass. Monica always was a contender from her return in mid 95 until her last match in mid 2003. The only thing that kept her from winning more then 1 Grand Slam was injuries, never fully commiting to being fully fit again, and the-then consistent power hitters. The power hitters are not as consistent anymore, she would have to be fit like she was in the early 90s to return since she would now know she needs to be fit not just to play her best but to ward off injuries, and not have the wear and tear that led to so many nagging minor injuries.

Monica Seles owns 9 Grand Slams, the most of any player. She has a win on grass over 9-time Wimbledon Champion Martina Navratilova, a bigger win then any of todays current women have ever managed on grass. She reached a Wimbledon final at 18, something none of todays current women except for Hingis have managed.

Seles is 32 now, she is retired.

BTW, she beat Navratilova when Martina was almost 36 and far away from her 80ies form. Seles sucked on grass, made only 1 final in Wimbledon and never made it to the semis a second time.

Condi

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 02:21 PM
Yeah and you know what happened in that final. Come on federerhoogeband fan this thread is so not like you.

That is true, but Warriorrogor, you know who that opponet who slaughtered her was, it was Steffi Graf. There isnt an opponent today who would compare. The Williams at their best maybe, but they arent close to that right now. Henin and Clijsters's worst surface by far for both is grass. Hingis is quite good on grass, but it is the easiest surface for her to be overpowered. Mauresmo would be a good matchup for Seles style-wise I think. Davenport and Sharapova are both coming off injuries.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 02:23 PM
Seles is 32 now, she is retired.

BTW, she beat Navratilova when Martina was almost 36 and far away from her 80ies form. Seles sucked on grass, made only 1 final in Wimbledon and never made it to the semis a second time.

Condi

Seles only played Wimbledon once in her prime, and since her return never played it at the "full fitness" she would have if she came back. In her prime she lost in 90 to Zina Garrison in the quarters after having a match point, and Zina went to the final. In 91 she had to miss it due to shin splints. In 92 she made the final before getting clobbered by Graf. Since her return she was very close to beating Davenport in the 2000 quarterfinal, and would have had an good semi vs Dokic who she has never lost to and only lost 1 set too, to get to the final.

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 02:28 PM
That is true, but Warriorrogor, you know who that opponet who slaughtered her was, it was Steffi Graf. There isnt an opponent today who would compare. The Williams at their best maybe, but they arent close to that right now. Henin and Clijsters's worst surface by far for both is grass. Hingis is quite good on grass, but it is the easiest surface for her to be overpowered. Mauresmo would be a good matchup for Seles style-wise I think. Davenport and Sharapova are both coming off injuries.

Dear Friend,
Monica had her chance at Wimbledon, but even at her peak she couldn't win the title. Maybe she was unlucky to find Graf in the final, but thére have been years 1997/8 when Steffi wasn't there and Monica didn't win. Monica's game didn't suit the grass and grass never liked her. Nothing secret about that. Most champions at Wimbledon were great athletes, with the exception of Juggernaut Davenport.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 02:34 PM
Dear Friend,
Monica had her chance at Wimbledon, but even at her peak she couldn't win the title. Maybe she was unlucky to find Graf in the final, but thére have been years 1997/8 when Steffi wasn't there and Monica didn't win. Monica's game didn't suit the grass and grass never liked her. Nothing secret about that. Most champions at Wimbledon were great athletes, with the exception of Juggernaut Davenport.

OK I see your point. Maybe it is just me being a nostolgic fan. I miss both Graf and Seles, and the good old days of womens tennis, particularly after seeing a women today, who I like by the way, but even still win the French Open title by hitting double the unforced errors to winners, still win the final of a GRAND SLAM in 2 sets even with that kind of stat performance.

DashaandSafin
06-10-2006, 02:36 PM
The same contenders for every major title...

Women's game drops drastically after the top 5 or so.

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 02:39 PM
OK I see your point. Maybe it is just me being a nostolgic fan. I miss both Graf and Seles, and the good old days of womens tennis, particularly after seeing a women today, who I like by the way, but even still win the French Open title by hitting double the unforced errors to winners, still win the final of a GRAND SLAM in 2 sets even with that kind of stat performance.

Yes, they are missed. Women's tennis used to be like a Boxoffice movie, with all the personalities and off court issues amongst them. Could you imagine Steffi or Monica ever saying they would be happy to reach the semi-final of a tournament? Or give up a match at match point down or up. They were the diva's of tennis along with Martina, Chris, Gabriela, Aranxtha and so many other co stars. If was different tennis, tennisfans who only know the current tennisgeneration will be amazed by the footwork and forehand of Graf, the SV of Martina, the angles and power of Monica, the varity of Gaby. Yep I miss them too.

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 02:42 PM
The same contenders for every major title...

Women's game drops drastically after the top 5 or so.

The women out of top five in those days played fine tennis against each other, until either Steffi or Monica played with them.

The same names in the finals brought more drama on and off court than the current crop.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 02:49 PM
Yes, they are missed. Women's tennis used to be like a Boxoffice movie, with all the personalities and off court issues amongst them. Could you imagine Steffi or Monica ever saying they would be happy to reach the semi-final of a tournament? Or give up a match at match point down or up. They were the diva's of tennis along with Martina, Chris, Gabriela, Aranxtha and so many other co stars. If was different tennis, tennisfans who only know the current tennisgeneration will be amazed by the footwork and forehand of Graf, the SV of Martina, the angles and power of Monica, the varity of Gaby. Yep I miss them too.

Yes the group of top players then all were very well known by even the casual tennis fan. There was such an interesting mix of ages, personalities, styles, and you had to win matches by winning your points, and if you choked, you would only get one shot at it. Now women can trade chokes, they win matches by hitting less errors then their opponent, and occasionaly hitting winners, the most talented players are often not even ranked in the top 20, the top 5 contains players who lose in early rounds of slams often and have never been in slam finals.

You are right the forehand and impeccable footwork of Graf, the angles and return of serve of Seles, the artistry and net play of Sabatini, the serve and volley and athleticsm of even an aging Navratilova, and the tenacity and dogged retrieving of Sanchez Vicario puts todays womens fields behind the curtains by comparision.

The pecking order of womens tennis was firmly established. You knew where you were, and who you had to go through to get something. Graf and Seles were the head of the class, queens of the court. Sabatini, Navratilova, and Sanchez Vicario were the omnipresent contenders, each knowing to reach #1, or to win slams they had to go through the Graf-Seles barrier. Then you had the hopeful challengers group of young upstart Capriati(before she burnt out), Novotna, Fernandez, and Maleeva. They knew had the ability to atleast knock of somebody from the 2nd group of a big tournament and that was their initial goal. There was no mass confusion to who the real contenders were, were people really stand since you sure as heck cant figure it out by rankings that had Petrova at #4 at the start of the year and V. Williams and Henin at #8 and #14; and what
the order of power was in the womens game, which there is no real sense of now.

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 02:59 PM
Yes the group of top players then all were very well known by even the casual tennis fan. There was such an interesting mix of ages, personalities, styles, and you had to win matches by winning your points, and if you choked, you would only get one shot at it. Now women can trade chokes, they win matches by hitting less errors then their opponent, and occasionaly hitting winners, the most talented players are often not even ranked in the top 20, the top 5 contains players who lose in early rounds of slams often and have never been in slam finals.

You are right the forehand and impeccable footwork of Graf, the angles and return of serve of Seles, the artistry and net play of Sabatini, the serve and volley and athleticsm of even an aging Navratilova, and the tenacity and dogged retrieving of Sanchez Vicario puts todays womens fields behind the curtains by comparision.

The pecking order of womens tennis was firmly established. You knew where you were, and who you had to go through to get something. Graf and Seles were the head of the class, queens of the court. Sabatini, Navratilova, and Sanchez Vicario were the omnipresent contenders, each knowing to reach #1, or to win slams they had to go through the Graf-Seles barrier. Then you had the hopeful challengers group of young upstart Capriati(before she burnt out), Novotna, Fernandez, and Maleeva. They knew had the ability to atleast knock of somebody from the 2nd group of a big tournament and that was their initial goal. There was no mass confusion to who the real contenders were, were people really stand since you sure as heck cant figure it out by rankings that had Petrova at #4 at the start of the year and V. Williams and Henin at #8 and #14; and what
the order of power was in the womens game, which there is no real sense of now.

You will like what Wilander had to say about Steffi and Monica on this thread compared to today's woman.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 03:02 PM
You will like what Wilander had to say about Steffi and Monica on this thread compared to today's woman.

What did he say?

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 03:05 PM
What did he say?

He talked about the current field and their attitude towards the game and thay they don't have a real gameplan. In so many words he described a player like Clijsters who goes in with ''I wanna have fun and let's see what happen, I don't care if I lose attitude''. He said that Steffi would never walk onto centre court with the attitude of today's player. It is on this thread and he starts saying it at 9:30 minutes of playing the video.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 03:09 PM
He talked about the current field and their attitude towards the game and thay they don't have a real gameplan. In so many words he described a player like Clijsters who goes in with ''I wanna have fun and let's see what happen, I don't care if I lose attitude''. He said that Steffi would never walk onto centre court with the attitude of today's player. It is on this thread and he starts saying it at 9:30 minutes of playing the video.

I was very dissapointed in Kim's performance vs Justine in the semis this year, John McEnroe even commented on it when reviewing both finalists path to the end. If she did go out with that nonchalent carefree approach that pretty much sums it up right there. You work your butt of all year and it all centred on 4 events. When you get to the semis of one of those events you should want it so much you have a burning sensation and anxiety in you to get out and do it. Certainly Graf and Seles both did, they did not look at it is some nice fun hitting entertaining for a crowd.

Warriorroger
06-10-2006, 03:17 PM
I was very dissapointed in Kim's performance vs Justine in the semis this year, John McEnroe even commented on it when reviewing both finalists path to the end. If she did go out with that nonchalent carefree approach that pretty much sums it up right there. You work your butt of all year and it all centred on 4 events. When you get to the semis of one of those events you should want it so much you have a burning sensation and anxiety in you to get out and do it. Certainly Graf and Seles both did, they did not look at it is some nice fun hitting entertaining for a crowd.

Yeah, I agree:D

HollerOne5
06-10-2006, 03:50 PM
Federerhogen fan or whatever, you lost all credibility you even had by stating that Seles would most certainly be the favorite at Wimbledon. LOL, even if she met Martina Hingis, who is not a favorite, Monica would get blown off the court.

Topaz
06-10-2006, 04:11 PM
She reached a Wimbledon final at 18, something none of todays current women except for Hingis have managed.

You've never heard of Maria Sharapova?

Bones08
06-10-2006, 04:19 PM
Well new pictures of Monica suggest that she's been doing something because she lost major WWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHTTTTT TT. I hope she comes back and gives it another go, I really think she'll do Pilot Pen, and then the U.S. Open!

sandiegotennisboy
06-10-2006, 06:11 PM
It looks like Monica Seles wont be entering Wimbledon this year, that she is not quite ready to make her comeback and it is nearing the point she wont return. With her out the womens field seems wide open, who are some of the contenders with Monica Seles not playing.

insane in the membrane. she would get whooped. her strokes might have looked big when she played but now its just the same as everyone elses or even less powerful. add to this no matchplay. i say she retires with dignity and not ruin my good memories of her good old days.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 06:53 PM
You've never heard of Maria Sharapova?

Sharapova and Hingis are the only current ones who have done what she did, reaching a Wimbledon final at 18 or younger.

ragnaROK
06-10-2006, 06:59 PM
you are hilarious.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-10-2006, 07:40 PM
Well new pictures of Monica suggest that she's been doing something because she lost major WWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHTTTTT TT. I hope she comes back and gives it another go, I really think she'll do Pilot Pen, and then the U.S. Open!

Thanks for the news, I am so happy to hear that. I love Monica and would love to see her show she has what it takes to be a contender again.

Alot of people have short memories, I am not talking about back to the early 90s. From mid 95-mid 2002 Monica was always a legitimate contender to win slams, yes she did win only 1, but that does not mean she didnt seriously contend that whole period, and might well have won a few more. The main thing that held her back was her physical fitness, nowhere near where it used to be. Had then been up another couple notches she could have won quite a few more slams, since she often came close and got tired in 3rd sets when she was right in the match.
Her shots-her forehands, backhands, angled shot, return of serves, deceptively tough lefty serve, were still major forces in the womens game and troubled almost all the top players-except the Williams at their absolute peak perhaps.

Gilgamesh
06-10-2006, 09:30 PM
If Seles was never stabbed she could have challenged Graf as the GOAT women's tennis player. I am sure she would have joint the ranks of Graf, Evert, and Nav as the greatest Open Era women tennis players. She was absolutely dominant.

Condoleezza
06-11-2006, 02:34 AM
Sharapova and Hingis are the only current ones who have done what she did, reaching a Wimbledon final at 18 or younger.


And how many current players are out there who have reached a Wimbledon final at 26 or older? Only one (Davenport).

Condi

Warriorroger
06-11-2006, 02:40 AM
If Seles was never stabbed she could have challenged Graf as the GOAT women's tennis player. I am sure she would have joint the ranks of Graf, Evert, and Nav as the greatest Open Era women tennis players. She was absolutely dominant.

She probaby would, but she would never made her mark at wimbledon. Her movement was good, but not ood enough for grass.

Condoleezza
06-11-2006, 02:44 AM
If Seles was never stabbed she could have challenged Graf as the GOAT women's tennis player. I am sure she would have joint the ranks of Graf, Evert, and Nav as the greatest Open Era women tennis players. She was absolutely dominant.

I don't quite agree.
Seles had 2 great years at the slams (1991, 1992) but was average for a multi-slam winner at non-slam tournaments. You can't extrapolate too much from a small sample like this (2 years, only slam events).

Condi

Warriorroger
06-11-2006, 02:49 AM
I don't quite agree.
Seles had 2 great years at the slams (1991, 1992) but was average for a multi-slam winner at non-slam tournaments. You can't extrapolate too much from a small sample like this (2 years, only slam events).

Condi

That is no use convincing to Seles fans, plus we never know. I personally think that Graf would have overtaken Monica since the difference in ranking oints was very little coming in to Hamburg. We will never know.

Condoleezza
06-11-2006, 02:58 AM
That is no use convincing to Seles fans, plus we never know. I personally think that Graf would have overtaken Monica since the difference in ranking oints was very little coming in to Hamburg. We will never know.

Yes, I'm tired of rehashing this Graf/Seles debate again and again.
It is wrong to suggest that Graf didn't profit from the Seles stabbing. But it is wrong either to conclude that Seles would have continued to win 3 slams a years for many years. As you said, Steffi and Monica were very close just before the Hamburg tournament in 1993. IIRC, Graf would have be the # 1 player again anyway, if she had beaten Seles in the FO final that year. And only morons would say that she wouldn't be able to pull that off, considering that Steffi lost only with 2-6, 6-3, 8-10 in the previous year and that she is a 6-time Roland Garros winner. IMO, Seles suffered a lot more from her dad's illness (cancer, diagnosed in 1993) and death (in 1998 ) in those years than from the stabbing (in 1993 as well). At least for me my dad's fate would have been a far more harrowing experience than one terrible day that began to fade away into the past starting right the next day.
Just my 2 cents ...

Condi

Warriorroger
06-11-2006, 03:20 AM
Yes, I'm tired of rehashing this Graf/Seles debate again and again.
It is wrong to suggest that Graf didn't profit from the Seles stabbing. But it is wrong either to conclude that Seles would have continued to win 3 slams a years for many years. As you said, Steffi and Monica were very close just before the Hamburg tournament in 1993. IIRC, Graf would have be the # 1 player again anyway, if she had beaten Seles in the FO final that year. And only morons would say that she wouldn't be able to pull that off, considering that Steffi lost only with 2-6, 6-3, 8-10 in the previous year and that she is a 6-time Roland Garros winner. IMO, Seles suffered a lot more from her dad's illness (cancer, diagnosed in 1993) and death (in 1998) in those years than from the stabbing (in 1993 as well). At least for me my dad's fate would have been a far more harrowing experience than one terrible day that began to fade away into the past starting right the next day.
Just my 2 cents ...

Condi

Probably yes..

Gilgamesh
06-11-2006, 07:03 AM
I don't quite agree.
Seles had 2 great years at the slams (1991, 1992) but was average for a multi-slam winner at non-slam tournaments. You can't extrapolate too much from a small sample like this (2 years, only slam events).

Condi

Note that I said she could challenge Graf not would for the GOAT women's player mantle.

I am certain though she would have eventually joined the ranks of Graf, Nav, and Evert as in the upper echelon of Open Era women tennis players.

Condoleezza
06-11-2006, 07:06 AM
Note that I said she could challenge Graf not would for the GOAT women's player mantle.

I am certain though she would have eventually joined the ranks of Graf, Nav, and Evert as in the upper echelon of Open Era women tennis players.

With 13 or 14 slams, which would have been possible for Seles, she certainly would be in the upper echelon (above BJK). But the stabbing gave her and her career a tragic dimension and a very special aura. Legacy-wise this is almost better than 13/14 slams.

Condi

Gilgamesh
06-11-2006, 07:10 AM
With 13 or 14 slams, which would have been possible for Seles, she certainly would be in the upper echelon (above BJK). But the stabbing gave her and her career a tragic dimension and a very special aura. Legacy-wise this is almost better than 13/14 slams.

Condi

Yes I agree with the aura.

It always leaves open the question whether or not she could.

We still speak of potential when we talk about Seles even when her career is over and we know she never was really the same after she came back.

Condoleezza
06-11-2006, 07:51 AM
Yes I agree with the aura.

It always leaves open the question whether or not she could.

We still speak of potential when we talk about Seles even when her career is over and we know she never was really the same after she came back.


But we don't know why she was never the same again. The stabbing - or would she have had a different physical and mental stat as a twen anyway?

BTW, she was quite good in the first year after her return.

Condi

HollerOne5
06-11-2006, 08:23 AM
But we don't know why she was never the same again. The stabbing - or would she have had a different physical and mental stat as a twen anyway?

BTW, she was quite good in the first year after her return.

Condi

She was good because the depth in women's tennis was still pathetic, with the exception of Graf, the same old foes that match up poorly against Monica were around (Arantxa, Conchita, Gabriela, etc). It wasn't till 97 and 98 that Hingis, Davenport, and the Williamses started playing. Monica was in horrible shape even after her return getting to the USO Final

Condoleezza
06-11-2006, 08:43 AM
She was good because the depth in women's tennis was still pathetic, with the exception of Graf, the same old foes that match up poorly against Monica were around (Arantxa, Conchita, Gabriela, etc). It wasn't till 97 and 98 that Hingis, Davenport, and the Williamses started playing. Monica was in horrible shape even after her return getting to the USO Final

I don't agree.
In 1998 Sanchez won French Open, Novotna (vs. Tauziat) won Wimbledon, in 1999 Graf beat Davenport, Hingis, Venus in slams, winning French Open and making the Wimbledon final.
And Graf, Sanchez, Novotna of 1998/99 were clearly not as good as in the mid90ies. Hingis, Davenport and the Williams sisters could take over the women's game only because Graf, Martinez, Sanchez, Pierce, Novotna became old.
Seles of 95/96 was far better than Seles of 99/03.

Condi