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View Full Version : Roger hire Steffi as a coach


Warriorroger
06-12-2006, 08:08 AM
With the risk of sounding like a Graf fanatic, or inviting the Seles posters back again. I do feel Roger's game is leaning more and more towards Steffi's game. The very good serve (though not the hardest on the tour), the killer forehand from the backhand postion, and the footwork.

Please only react if you have read the post, before you bombard with the stabbing of Seles or saying that I can only talk about Graf.

The two things Roger doesn't do as great as Steffi (I do realise there's more depth in the men's game, so it's more difficult), is the execution of the slice backhand and his mental game.

Graf had her fair share of human backboards: Sabatini, Coetzer, Sanchez Vicario. On a good day she imposed her will and game on them. On a bad day she could lose or beat them at their own game. Graf would use the slice to drive them crazy, it kept coming back hard and deep. Roger's slice was lacklustred and missed depth and speed. There was one point when Nadal was serving for the match, Roger kept running and running and won the point. That is what Steffi would have done as well.

The second thing is the mental game. No matter who she was playing, no matter the score (even match point down), you could never tell from her face if she was losing or winning. Roger looked scared and clueless, which he was.

She could teach him how to use the slice to outmanouvre the counterpunchers. Everyone kept saying that the slice was the defensive weak shot. Yet no generation could beat her regularly. From Martina to the William Sisters. Steffi could also teach Roger a thing or two about the mental aspects of the game. Maybe he can hire her former coach Heinz Gunthard as well.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-12-2006, 08:22 AM
You are forgetting one problem. Steffi Graf's husband is still officialy playing, not retired, and played Roger in the U.S Open final last year. While the extent of their rivalry is debatable at this point, would you want your own wife working with somebody you were trying to beat?

Warriorroger
06-12-2006, 08:26 AM
You are forgetting one problem. Steffi Graf's husband is still officialy playing, not retired, and played Roger in the U.S Open final last year. While the extent of their rivalry is debatable at this point, would you want your own wife working with somebody you were trying to beat?



You know what? I really believe Andre wouldn't mind. Andre playes a game which is nothing like his wife's. Andre won't beat Roger anymore and is IMO content with that. I really don't think he would mind, also because he is in the final stage of his awesome career.

HyperHorse
06-12-2006, 08:29 AM
oh god... you are such a Steffi worshipper its idiotic....
if u ask me, Muster would have more cause to coach him before and during the claycourt season...
another problem is for my mind, Federer strings his racquets quite loose for his style of play, which i dont understand at all..
this is why he loses control of the ball sometimes on his groundstrokes and volleys especially when the ball is hit hard at him from Nadal... he only strings @ 58lb...
he should be at least 64lb... then he can go for his shots more..

Tchocky
06-12-2006, 08:32 AM
That is the most idiotic suggestion ever. With all due respect to Graf...why would anyone let alone the Number One player in the world take advice from a girl? You name me one great female coach.

Warriorroger
06-12-2006, 08:50 AM
That is the most idiotic suggestion ever.

Why? Give me a reason why not instead of a one-liner.

David L
06-12-2006, 08:50 AM
With the risk of sounding like a Graf fanatic, or inviting the Seles posters back again. I do feel Roger's game is leaning more and more towards Steffi's game. The very good serve (though not the hardest on the tour), the killer forehand from the backhand postion, and the footwork.

Please only react if you have read the post, before you bombard with the stabbing of Seles or saying that I can only talk about Graf.

The two things Roger doesn't do as great as Steffi (I do realise there's more depth in the men's game, so it's more difficult), is the execution of the slice backhand and his mental game.

Graf had her fair share of human backboards: Sabatini, Coetzer, Sanchez Vicario. On a good day she imposed her will and game on them. On a bad day she could lose or beat them at their own game. Graf would use the slice to drive them crazy, it kept coming back hard and deep. Roger's slice was lacklustred and missed depth and speed. There was one point when Nadal was serving for the match, Roger kept running and running and won the point. That is what Steffi would have done as well.

The second thing is the mental game. No matter who she was playing, no matter the score (even match point down), you could never tell from her face if she was losing or winning. Roger looked scared and clueless, which he was.

She could teach him how to use the slice to outmanouvre the counterpunchers. Everyone kept saying that the slice was the defensive weak shot. Yet no generation could beat her regularly. From Martina to the William Sisters. Steffi could also teach Roger a thing or two about the mental aspects of the game. Maybe he can hire her former coach Heinz Gunthard as well.

Well, firstly, there is not a stroke that Steffi had that was better than Roger's. Clearly, she did not have to deal with the heavy balls that he has to confront. Having said this, I like your suggestion, because of it's inventiveness, not because I think it is realistic or even wise.

I wonder, has there ever been an instance where a woman has coached a man? There are probably few female pros out there that could command the respect of any of the men, but if anyone could, it would be Steffi. She could probably be quite useful in helping someone with their mental approach. I would imagine the egos of players who have been stars in their own right, would make that transition to playing second fiddle to another player very difficult. However, I actually think Steffi would jump at the opportunity if she had the time. Federer would certainly be worthy of her efforts.

Federer, is not stupid though. He knows that there is room for improvement, both mentally and technically. Roche has got almost unequalled experience as a player and a coach at the highest level. He is also old enough to have seen more than almost anyone else out there. On top of that, he is old enough to have a greater level of perspective and probably better equipt to keep Roger calm and relaxed. Their personalities seem to match. For me, there does not appear to be anyone out there who is better qualified than Roche. Roger did not perform will in the final of the French, but that was due to a brain freeze in the heat of the moment. No need to panic with drastic measures. Hopefully , he will learn from this experience. He revisted an earlier time in his life when he was so scared of losing, he could not perform. Now that he has lost, he has to deal with that reality and it's not that bad. Certainly nothing to be scared of. He has had a fantastic start to the year. Has only been losing, if at all, in finals. He is 24, Agassi only started accumulating Grand Slams after 25. He has lots of time. I loved Steffi's game, however, she was a great player.

Warriorroger
06-12-2006, 09:00 AM
Well, firstly, there is not a stroke that Steffi had that was better than Roger's. Clearly, she did not have to deal with the heavy balls that he has to confront. Having said this, I like your suggestion, because of it's inventiveness, not because I think it is realistic or even wise.

I wonder, has there ever been an instance where a woman has coached a man? There are probably few female pros out there that could command the respect of any of the men, but if anyone could, it would be Steffi. She could probably be quite useful in helping someone with their mental approach. I would imagine the egos of players who have been stars in their own right, would make that transition to playing second fiddle to another player very difficult. However, I actually think Steffi would jump at the opportunity if she had the time. Federer would certainly be worthy of her efforts.

Federer, is not stupid though. He knows that there is room for improvement, both mentally and technically. Roche has got almost unequalled experience as a player and a coach at the highest level. He is also old enough to have seen more than almost anyone else out there. On top of that, he is old enough to have a greater level of perspective and probably better equipt to keep Roger calm and relaxed. Their personalities seem to match. For me, there does not appear to be anyone out there who is better qualified than Roche. Roger did not perform will in the final of the French, but that was due to a brain freeze in the heat of the moment. No need to panic with drastic measures. Hopefully , he will learn from this experience. He revisted an earlier time in his life when he was so scared of losing, he could not perform. Now that he has lost, he has to deal with that reality and it's not that bad. Certainly nothing to be scared of. He has had a fantastic start to the year. Has only been losing, if at all, in finals. He is 24, Agassi only started accumulating Grand Slams after 25. He has lots of time. I loved Steffi's game, however, she was a great player.

Thanks for being civil and more thanks for your thoughts. The stroke I hink Graf hit better was the slice backhand. And the player who troubled her the most on that wing was Sabatini. You're right about the power, but in Steffi's league Sabatini's high topspin was probably even with Nadal's. Roche is a very good coach, but he has an unlucky history concerning 2 Grandslams: Lendl's Wimbledon and Roger's Roland Garros. Maybe Graf could tell him how to prepare mentally for a game like Nadal's. Anyway thanks for sharing.

dannyjjang
06-12-2006, 09:27 AM
With the risk of sounding like a Graf fanatic, or inviting the Seles posters back again. I do feel Roger's game is leaning more and more towards Steffi's game. The very good serve (though not the hardest on the tour), the killer forehand from the backhand postion, and the footwork.

Please only react if you have read the post, before you bombard with the stabbing of Seles or saying that I can only talk about Graf.

The two things Roger doesn't do as great as Steffi (I do realise there's more depth in the men's game, so it's more difficult), is the execution of the slice backhand and his mental game.

Graf had her fair share of human backboards: Sabatini, Coetzer, Sanchez Vicario. On a good day she imposed her will and game on them. On a bad day she could lose or beat them at their own game. Graf would use the slice to drive them crazy, it kept coming back hard and deep. Roger's slice was lacklustred and missed depth and speed. There was one point when Nadal was serving for the match, Roger kept running and running and won the point. That is what Steffi would have done as well.

The second thing is the mental game. No matter who she was playing, no matter the score (even match point down), you could never tell from her face if she was losing or winning. Roger looked scared and clueless, which he was.

She could teach him how to use the slice to outmanouvre the counterpunchers. Everyone kept saying that the slice was the defensive weak shot. Yet no generation could beat her regularly. From Martina to the William Sisters. Steffi could also teach Roger a thing or two about the mental aspects of the game. Maybe he can hire her former coach Heinz Gunthard as well.
Source ? or is this a suggestion? im confused

Lee
06-12-2006, 09:28 AM
WarriorRoger, sorry to hijack this thread but I see you are from the Netherlands. Do you listen to dance music and have you heard of Tijs Verwest and Armin van Buuren?

Warriorroger
06-12-2006, 10:20 AM
WarriorRoger, sorry to hijack this thread but I see you are from the Netherlands. Do you listen to dance music and have you heard of Tijs Verwest and Armin van Buuren?

The latter sounds familiar, anything I can help you with? Just let me know.

Warriorroger
06-12-2006, 10:21 AM
Source ? or is this a suggestion? im confused

It is a suggestion, sorry to confuse you

slack hack
06-12-2006, 10:56 AM
why would anyone let alone the Number One player in the world take advice from a girl? You name me one great female coach.

Mandlikova, King, (Andrei Chesnokov's coach...I forget her name)

David L
06-12-2006, 11:34 AM
Thanks for being civil and more thanks for your thoughts. The stroke I hink Graf hit better was the slice backhand. And the player who troubled her the most on that wing was Sabatini. You're right about the power, but in Steffi's league Sabatini's high topspin was probably even with Nadal's. Roche is a very good coach, but he has an unlucky history concerning 2 Grandslams: Lendl's Wimbledon and Roger's Roland Garros. Maybe Graf could tell him how to prepare mentally for a game like Nadal's. Anyway thanks for sharing.

Why be uncivil? I have to tell you that there is no way Sabatini's high topspin is anywhere near what Nadal is doing with the ball or any of the male pros. The difference is quite large. Yes, Steffi had great slice on the backhand, but that shot would not look as good having to deal with the penetration, trajectory, speed, spin, angle etc of the male ball in a match situation. I agree that it might have been a good idea for Federer to slice more in the Final. I think this is more a decision he has to make, than a technical inability to do it. Maybe he will think about employing this tactic if he gets another opportunity at Nadal on clay.

Regarding your theory of a Roche jinx. Well, this depends on whether one is superstitious or not. I'm not, but that's not important. What's important is whether Federer is. If there is the slightest hint of a belief in this, even on a subconscious level, then that could be a problem. Hopefully he is mentally strong enough to know such notions are nonsense. I would suggest he always err on the side of reason over superstition, but people believe what they believe, so if it did affect his performance, then I can acknowledge he would have to take the necessary steps to counter any negativity, whatever that may be. Remember, Roche is in the same company as all the other coaches in this regard, because very few people own all Grand Slam titles. At least his former pupil won all of them, bar one, and got to the final of the one he did'nt. Got to look at the positive, not the negative. General negativity will hamper you all round.

Tchocky
06-12-2006, 11:57 AM
Mandlikova, King, (Andrei Chesnokov's coach...I forget her name)

Who did Hana coach? Who did Billie Jean coach? What did Chesnokov ever win? Even the women hire men as coaches. Can you imagine a female coach in the NBA? I hate to sound sexist but women just don't make good coaches, certainly not at the upper echelon of sports.

slack hack
06-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Who did Hana coach? Who did Billie Jean coach? What did Chesnokov ever win? Even the women hire men as coaches. Can you imagine a female coach in the NBA? I hate to sound sexist but women just don't make good coaches, certainly not at the upper echelon of sports.
1. Wimbledon champ Novotna
2. Navratilova
3.Top ten player Chesnekov won four super9's, as they were called back then.

rommil
06-12-2006, 09:18 PM
With the risk of sounding like a Graf fanatic, or inviting the Seles posters back again. I do feel Roger's game is leaning more and more towards Steffi's game. The very good serve (though not the hardest on the tour), the killer forehand from the backhand postion, and the footwork.

Please only react if you have read the post, before you bombard with the stabbing of Seles or saying that I can only talk about Graf.

The two things Roger doesn't do as great as Steffi (I do realise there's more depth in the men's game, so it's more difficult), is the execution of the slice backhand and his mental game.

Graf had her fair share of human backboards: Sabatini, Coetzer, Sanchez Vicario. On a good day she imposed her will and game on them. On a bad day she could lose or beat them at their own game. Graf would use the slice to drive them crazy, it kept coming back hard and deep. Roger's slice was lacklustred and missed depth and speed. There was one point when Nadal was serving for the match, Roger kept running and running and won the point. That is what Steffi would have done as well.

The second thing is the mental game. No matter who she was playing, no matter the score (even match point down), you could never tell from her face if she was losing or winning. Roger looked scared and clueless, which he was.

She could teach him how to use the slice to outmanouvre the counterpunchers. Everyone kept saying that the slice was the defensive weak shot. Yet no generation could beat her regularly. From Martina to the William Sisters. Steffi could also teach Roger a thing or two about the mental aspects of the game. Maybe he can hire her former coach Heinz Gunthard as well.
Sorry but you are relentless in pushing this Steffi-Federer parallelism. Your basic problem here is you are comparing the men's and the women's game and also in 2 different eras.While Steffi managed to put up a good winning record on her time, her slice backhand now would be a liability. The players now are faster and stronger. Also, if Federer starts hitting his backhand 99% of the time, opponents would attack on it. Since you are a big fan of Graf, do you have a record of her forehand compared to her backhand winners and compare that to Federer's? Federer is a much more astute player than Graf and he has more diversity in his game. So you are actually suggesting Graf to teach Federer?

superman1
06-12-2006, 09:34 PM
Um, Federer is widely considered to be the most talented player ever. He won 3 Slams in one year without a coach, why should he need Steffi Graf? All he needs is a nice, reliable guy like Tony Roche to get his racquets strung and give him a few tips now and then. He had a total brain fart in the French final but that doesn't change the fact that he holds 7 Slams at age 24.

Warriorroger
06-16-2006, 12:05 PM
Um, Federer is widely considered to be the most talented player ever. He won 3 Slams in one year without a coach, why should he need Steffi Graf? All he needs is a nice, reliable guy like Tony Roche to get his racquets strung and give him a few tips now and then. He had a total brain fart in the French final but that doesn't change the fact that he holds 7 Slams at age 24.

I used to like Superman, you are a nasty Superman, where is the real Superman?

For one thing Graf could have told him, he should have used the slice to outmanouvre Nadal and not it through the middle.

ATPballkid
10-29-2006, 10:37 AM
Warriorroger AKA Condolezza AKA Gunther Parche? What's this obsession with Steffi Graf?

jmsx521
10-29-2006, 11:06 AM
If Graf becomes Fed's coach... I smell a divorce. Daddy just got home once and forever to raise the kids, but now mommy's leaving the family; Jaden and Jaz are left once again without a complete family.

LowProfile
10-29-2006, 11:20 AM
If your reasoning is correct, then why doesn't Nadal hire Seles as a coach to help him learn to drive through his shots better?

FedSampras
10-29-2006, 11:33 AM
If your reasoning is correct, then why doesn't Nadal hire Seles as a coach to help him learn to drive through his shots better?



This thread almost made me vomit. IMO, the originator of this thread is sick. Why would a great and naturally talented player like Roger Federer ever hire a robotic one dimentional Steffi as a coach. Maybe Roger could coach Steffi a thing or two about giving back to the sport and and how to be a classy champion.

Condoleezza
10-29-2006, 01:37 PM
This thread almost made me vomit. IMO, the originator of this thread is sick. Why would a great and naturally talented player like Roger Federer ever hire a robotic one dimentional Steffi as a coach. Maybe Roger could coach Steffi a thing or two about giving back to the sport and and how to be a classy champion.

?TIME magazine
October 11, 2004 | Vol. 164, No. 14
Love All

She gave up tennis but not the adoration of her fans. And she's still a champion to troubled kids around the world

A few sports stars win something rarer than trophies or championships an enduring place in the public's affections. Steffi Graf is one of them. She hung up her racket five years ago after winning an amazing 22 Grand Slam titles, but that doesn't mean she is any less busy or beloved.



Do you think we will read something like that about Seles one day .... ?

:D :D :D

FedSampras
10-29-2006, 01:42 PM
?TIME magazine
October 11, 2004 | Vol. 164, No. 14
Love All

She gave up tennis but not the adoration of her fans. And she's still a champion to troubled kids around the world

A few sports stars win something rarer than trophies or championships an enduring place in the public's affections. Steffi Graf is one of them. She hung up her racket five years ago after winning an amazing 22 Grand Slam titles, but that doesn't mean she is any less busy or beloved.



Do you think we will read something like that about Seles one day .... ?

:D :D :D

Lets hear what SI have to say (1994)

"A good day on the court for Graf is one without a tantrum of self-disgust. At her home club near Heidelberg, Germany, she chooses the outermost court for practice. There, on the edge of a forest, shielded from view, Graf shows a side of herself that will never be seen inside a stadium: She goes berserk. Rackets dissolve into smithereens. She swats at flower boxes, anything at hand. "

Now that's really classy champion. I don't think Roger wants to learn this bizarre practice styles.

OrangeOne
10-29-2006, 02:52 PM
Who did Hana coach? Who did Billie Jean coach? What did Chesnokov ever win? Even the women hire men as coaches. Can you imagine a female coach in the NBA? I hate to sound sexist but women just don't make good coaches, certainly not at the upper echelon of sports.

a. You hate to 'sound' sexist? If you don't say sexist things, then you won't sound sexist, and you equally won't have to hate....

b. Your contention is that women don't often coach at the elite level. If this is true, then how do we know how good or bad they really would be if they're not often given the chance?

Phil
10-29-2006, 08:22 PM
With the risk of sounding like a Graf fanatic, or inviting the Seles posters back again. I do feel Roger's game is leaning more and more towards Steffi's game. The very good serve (though not the hardest on the tour), the killer forehand from the backhand postion, and the footwork.

Please only react if you have read the post, before you bombard with the stabbing of Seles or saying that I can only talk about Graf.

The two things Roger doesn't do as great as Steffi (I do realise there's more depth in the men's game, so it's more difficult), is the execution of the slice backhand and his mental game.

Graf had her fair share of human backboards: Sabatini, Coetzer, Sanchez Vicario. On a good day she imposed her will and game on them. On a bad day she could lose or beat them at their own game. Graf would use the slice to drive them crazy, it kept coming back hard and deep. Roger's slice was lacklustred and missed depth and speed. There was one point when Nadal was serving for the match, Roger kept running and running and won the point. That is what Steffi would have done as well.

The second thing is the mental game. No matter who she was playing, no matter the score (even match point down), you could never tell from her face if she was losing or winning. Roger looked scared and clueless, which he was.

She could teach him how to use the slice to outmanouvre the counterpunchers. Everyone kept saying that the slice was the defensive weak shot. Yet no generation could beat her regularly. From Martina to the William Sisters. Steffi could also teach Roger a thing or two about the mental aspects of the game. Maybe he can hire her former coach Heinz Gunthard as well.

Federer has an outstanding backhand slice, better than Graff's ever was. Her slice was very good, too. But it was hit too short, and despite the angles she could generate from that shot, such a shot would be absolutely demolished by the MEN players that Federer has to play. She also had a fairly one-dimensional game. Hit the forehand...set-up for the forehand, while Federer can hit any shot there is, including volleying...which Graff never did or could do. He's got nothing to learn from Graff. Not a very good or imaginative idea. Idea rejected, outright.

superman1
10-29-2006, 08:31 PM
BTW, I recall hearing the commentators say that Billie Jean King gave Federer advice on his volleys (something about the approach, I can't remember), and Federer took it to heart.

He certainly does not need a coach at all, but all legends, male or female, could offer him plenty of good advice.

FedSampras
10-29-2006, 09:24 PM
BTW, I recall hearing the commentators say that Billie Jean King gave Federer advice on his volleys (something about the approach, I can't remember), and Federer took it to heart.

He certainly does not need a coach at all, but all legends, male or female, could offer him plenty of good advice.

Fed's game is so perfect and beautiful that it is pathetic and shameful to even suggest (as the originator of this thread did) that a retired german female player whose game was known for being cayote ugly, one dimentional and robotic coached Fed. I think I'm about to VOMIT again.:D

breakfast_of_champions
10-29-2006, 09:29 PM
fed does everything better than steffi. and great players dont always make great coaches. he should hire paul annacone, and improve his serve and volley.

superman1
10-30-2006, 12:49 AM
His serve and volley is fine. All he needs to improve is his backhand on clay. That's the only weakness of his I see, other than the occassional brainfart he has when he starts making unforced errors for no reason.

Condoleezza
10-30-2006, 07:46 AM
Fed's game is so perfect and beautiful that it is pathetic and shameful to even suggest (as the originator of this thread did) that a retired german female player whose game was known for being cayote ugly, one dimentional and robotic coached Fed. I think I'm about to VOMIT again.:D


What is "cayote", dimwit?

Condi

FedSampras
11-20-2006, 03:45 PM
What is "cayote", dimwit?

Condi

COYOTE UGLY!!! WARRIOR-****** ALIAS CONDOLEZZA.

yuttchan
11-20-2006, 04:10 PM
I was a big fan of Steffi back in her days, I still have videos of her 4 Grand Slam titles in 1988 among my treasures. But, to suggest that Roger needs advice from her is just hilarious! His slice backhand owes nothing to hers and his mental game is just as good as hers was. There's just no comparison between men and women's game today, much less women's game of 20 years ago!

roysid
11-21-2006, 01:26 AM
The idea is funny. I think Steffi would have a heartful laugh if she ever hears this :) :) . She is well settled with Agassi and her 2 kids.

But there are some similarities between Stefii's and Roger's game i.e both move extremely well and use the big forehand to smack winners.

Her backhand slice is slightly better than Roger's. But that's all. Roger can hit great backhand topspin,passes as well.

As per the mental aspect, Steffi has played some horrible matches with Sanchez Vicario and probably others. Eg.
1989 FO - Failed to win after serving for match.
1990 FO - Failed to win after leading 6-2 in tiebreaker against Monica.

Lost some close matches to Monica in 92 FO and 93 AO.

Roger's mental state is very good. He got rattled by Nadal but now that he had beaten him twice he would be in much better shape playing him.

NewBallsPlease
11-21-2006, 11:11 AM
Fed's bh slice and his mental game are fine. What he needs are better volleys and hit thru his bh with more authority. Maybe Graf can teach him those?

Nevermind, Graf can't volley and she can't drive thru her bh.

Warriorroger
11-21-2006, 11:26 AM
Fed's bh slice and his mental game are fine. What he needs are better volleys and hit thru his bh with more authority. Maybe Graf can teach him those?

Nevermind, Graf can't volley and she can't drive thru her bh.

As you know ''so called new user'' this thread was posted during the french open, but thanks for reacting to an old thread. How you get have so many usernames beats me, but well done. :p

NewBallsPlease
11-21-2006, 11:35 AM
As you know ''so called new user'' this thread was posted during the french open, but thanks for reacting to an old thread. How you get have so many usernames beats me, but well done. :p

You got me about the thread date!
But me having just this one handle beats you means you give up too soon :grin: